Network Privacy

[Tim Schoon]

Is there a way to prevent people you don't know from adding you to their
network? There's 2 people on my network - one is my mother, which is fine
(we're mutual), the other is someone I don't know and they do not have any
links saved. Apparently, they have 384 other people in their network as
well. Is there some way to get off this person's network and/or make it so I
have to approve each addition?


Tim :-)      http://nbajammer.epop3.com
http://www.myspace.com/nbajammer/
ICQ # 5756489   Yahoo: nba_jammer77  AIM: nbajam77
MSN: nbajam77  Xfire: nbajammer

[Britta Gustafson]

Hi! There's no way to remove people from your network right now, except in the case of
spam or other abuse (harassment, etc.), which we're happy to remove if you report it
directly to one of us.

The reasoning for the lack of control over network additions is that anybody can see your
public bookmarks and/or subscribe to your bookmarks' RSS feed in a newsreader. A
person adding you to their network is just another way of viewing your public bookmarks -
so removing that person from your "fans" list wouldn't prevent them from seeing your
bookmarks in any other way.

We've considered adding a way to hide specific usernames from your "fans" list, which
would be useful for example to a teacher who has a "fan" with a username that contains
profanity (or other material the teacher doesn't want his/her students to be exposed to),
but there are some issues with that, so we'll still thinking about it. Would that be a
solution to your problem?

Britta
del.icio.us community manager intern

--- In ydn-delicious@..., "Tim Schoon" <gamemaster@...> wrote:

>
> Is there a way to prevent people you don't know from adding you to their
> network? There's 2 people on my network - one is my mother, which is fine
> (we're mutual), the other is someone I don't know and they do not have any
> links saved. Apparently, they have 384 other people in their network as
> well. Is there some way to get off this person's network and/or make it so I
> have to approve each addition?
>
>
> Tim :-)      http://nbajammer.epop3.com
> http://www.myspace.com/nbajammer/
> ICQ # 5756489   Yahoo: nba_jammer77  AIM: nbajam77
> MSN: nbajam77  Xfire: nbajammer
>

[Tim Schoon]

It'd be a nice start. I don't mind my bookmarks being publicly accessible,
lest I wouldn't have a del.icio.us account, but things like my fans/network
I want to keep private amongst myself and those I wish to add to it (or whom
I approve). Because I don't know who this other person is, or how they know
me or why they would even add me in the first place, it really creeps me
out. I don't know if this sort of thing would be worth reporting for removal
or not, because I don't know them and the fact that they don't have any
links of their own suggests potential spam/abuse (i.e. automated fan bot or
something).

I guess it isn't so much that this person can see the bookmarks as it is
that any stranger can come along and add me, without my permission, and I
have no way of knowing who it is. I mean if they can access my public
boomarks anyway, there would be no reason to be a fan of mine or even a part
of my network. Surely there has to be a way to control who can be a
fan/network member, or such a thing can be considered for addition.


Tim :-)      http://nbajammer.epop3.com
http://www.myspace.com/nbajammer/
ICQ # 5756489   Yahoo: nba_jammer77  AIM: nbajam77
MSN: nbajam77  Xfire: nbajammer

----- Original Message -----
From: "Britta Gustafson" <brittag@...>
To: <ydn-delicious@...>
Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2007 5:56 PM
Subject: [ydn-delicious] Re: Network Privacy

> Hi! There's no way to remove people from your network right now, except in
> the case of
> spam or other abuse (harassment, etc.), which we're happy to remove if you
> report it
> directly to one of us.
>
> The reasoning for the lack of control over network additions is that
> anybody can see your
> public bookmarks and/or subscribe to your bookmarks' RSS feed in a
> newsreader. A
> person adding you to their network is just another way of viewing your
> public bookmarks -
> so removing that person from your "fans" list wouldn't prevent them from
> seeing your
> bookmarks in any other way.
>
> We've considered adding a way to hide specific usernames from your "fans"
> list, which
> would be useful for example to a teacher who has a "fan" with a username
> that contains
> profanity (or other material the teacher doesn't want his/her students to
> be exposed to),
> but there are some issues with that, so we'll still thinking about it.
> Would that be a
> solution to your problem?
>
> Britta
> del.icio.us community manager intern
>
> --- In ydn-delicious@..., "Tim Schoon" <gamemaster@...> wrote:
>>
>> Is there a way to prevent people you don't know from adding you to their
>> network?

[Britta Gustafson]

On Flickr, when somebody adds you to their contacts, you get a note that
says "If you don't know [username], [username] is probably a fan of your
photos or wants a bookmark so they can find you again. There is no
obligation for you to reciprocate, unless you want to." This is true on
del.icio.us too: when somebody adds you to their network, it's usually a
small expression of interest in what you're bookmarking - the person
just wants an easy way to see your public bookmarks. Does that help
explain the current network/fans system? We can try to make that message
more clear on the website.

We originally didn't include a list of "fans" on network pages at all,
partly to avoid the impression of a popularity contest, but we found
that people were curious about who was paying attention to their
bookmarks.

Britta
del.icio.us community manager intern

--- In ydn-delicious@..., "Tim Schoon" <gamemaster@...> wrote:

>
> It'd be a nice start. I don't mind my bookmarks being publicly accessible,
> lest I wouldn't have a del.icio.us account, but things like my fans/network
> I want to keep private amongst myself and those I wish to add to it (or whom
> I approve). Because I don't know who this other person is, or how they know
> me or why they would even add me in the first place, it really creeps me
> out. I don't know if this sort of thing would be worth reporting for removal
> or not, because I don't know them and the fact that they don't have any
> links of their own suggests potential spam/abuse (i.e. automated fan bot or
> something).
>
> I guess it isn't so much that this person can see the bookmarks as it is
> that any stranger can come along and add me, without my permission, and I
> have no way of knowing who it is. I mean if they can access my public
> boomarks anyway, there would be no reason to be a fan of mine or even a part
> of my network. Surely there has to be a way to control who can be a
> fan/network member, or such a thing can be considered for addition.
>
>
> Tim :-)      http://nbajammer.epop3.com
> http://www.myspace.com/nbajammer/
> ICQ # 5756489   Yahoo: nba_jammer77  AIM: nbajam77
> MSN: nbajam77  Xfire: nbajammer
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Britta Gustafson" <brittag@...>
> To: <ydn-delicious@...>
> Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2007 5:56 PM
> Subject: [ydn-delicious] Re: Network Privacy
>
>
> > Hi! There's no way to remove people from your network right now, except in
> > the case of
> > spam or other abuse (harassment, etc.), which we're happy to remove if you
> > report it
> > directly to one of us.
> >
> > The reasoning for the lack of control over network additions is that
> > anybody can see your
> > public bookmarks and/or subscribe to your bookmarks' RSS feed in a
> > newsreader. A
> > person adding you to their network is just another way of viewing your
> > public bookmarks -
> > so removing that person from your "fans" list wouldn't prevent them from
> > seeing your
> > bookmarks in any other way.
> >
> > We've considered adding a way to hide specific usernames from your "fans"
> > list, which
> > would be useful for example to a teacher who has a "fan" with a username
> > that contains
> > profanity (or other material the teacher doesn't want his/her students to
> > be exposed to),
> > but there are some issues with that, so we'll still thinking about it.
> > Would that be a
> > solution to your problem?
> >
> > Britta
> > del.icio.us community manager intern
> >
> > --- In ydn-delicious@..., "Tim Schoon" <gamemaster@> wrote:
> >>
> >> Is there a way to prevent people you don't know from adding you to their
> >> network?
>

[Tim Schoon]

It helps explain, but it could be made more clear. Yet I still think there
needs to be some kind of authorization put in or at the bare minimum only
have it display the people I've added (mutually, or who I am looking at but
who have not mutually added me). There's nothing in my public bookmarks that
people can't see, but I'm not putting the bookmarks there to be linked to by
just anybody. If John Doe wants to see what I've bookmarked, and knows my
username, and knows how to use del.icio.us, he can just type in the link to
it and go directly and then add to their browser's favorites or something
like that. But every time I visit I see the name of this unknown stranger on
my page, and it bothers me. I'd really rather not know that some stranger is
a fan of my bookmarks. If that could be addressed, I'd feel a lot better.



Tim :-)      http://nbajammer.epop3.com
http://www.myspace.com/nbajammer/
ICQ # 5756489   Yahoo: nba_jammer77  AIM: nbajam77
MSN: nbajam77  Xfire: nbajammer

----- Original Message -----
From: "Britta Gustafson" <brittag@...>
To: <ydn-delicious@...>
Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2007 7:22 PM
Subject: [ydn-delicious] Re: Network Privacy

> On Flickr, when somebody adds you to their contacts, you get a note that
> says "If you don't know [username], [username] is probably a fan of your
> photos or wants a bookmark so they can find you again. There is no
> obligation for you to reciprocate, unless you want to." This is true on
> del.icio.us too: when somebody adds you to their network, it's usually a
> small expression of interest in what you're bookmarking - the person
> just wants an easy way to see your public bookmarks. Does that help
> explain the current network/fans system? We can try to make that message
> more clear on the website.
>
> We originally didn't include a list of "fans" on network pages at all,
> partly to avoid the impression of a popularity contest, but we found
> that people were curious about who was paying attention to their
> bookmarks.
>
> Britta
> del.icio.us community manager intern

[Kevin Curry]

Sometimes I wonder what people would think if they knew how easy it is
to look at their network.  There's some interesting information to be
had there.  I can clearly see communities of interest in my network when
I look at it with a force directed graph viz.  Britta, I can see in your
graph that a lot of your friends know one another and which ones know
the most others.  You also have one of the biggest graphs I've ever
encountered.  I reckon the insight can be used both for and against you.
Then again, I suppose that is at the very crux of social networking.
(BTW, I'm just testing visualization techniques.)

 

You know, one thing that might be really useful is a notice:  "So and so
requested your network."  (Although, there are still ambient ways to get
network info.)

 

Kevin Curry

http://kevincurry.blogspot.com <http://kevincurry.blogspot.com/>

________________________________

From: ydn-delicious@...
[mailto:ydn-delicious@...] On Behalf Of Britta Gustafson
Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2007 8:23 PM
To: ydn-delicious@...
Subject: [ydn-delicious] Re: Network Privacy

 

On Flickr, when somebody adds you to their contacts, you get a note that
says "If you don't know [username], [username] is probably a fan of your
photos or wants a bookmark so they can find you again. There is no
obligation for you to reciprocate, unless you want to." This is true on
del.icio.us too: when somebody adds you to their network, it's usually a
small expression of interest in what you're bookmarking - the person
just wants an easy way to see your public bookmarks. Does that help
explain the current network/fans system? We can try to make that message
more clear on the website.

We originally didn't include a list of "fans" on network pages at all,
partly to avoid the impression of a popularity contest, but we found
that people were curious about who was paying attention to their
bookmarks.

Britta
del.icio.us community manager intern

--- In ydn-delicious@...
<mailto:ydn-delicious%40yahoogroups.com> , "Tim Schoon" <gamemaster@...>
wrote:
>
> It'd be a nice start. I don't mind my bookmarks being publicly
accessible,
> lest I wouldn't have a del.icio.us account, but things like my
fans/network
> I want to keep private amongst myself and those I wish to add to it
(or whom
> I approve). Because I don't know who this other person is, or how they
know
> me or why they would even add me in the first place, it really creeps
me
> out. I don't know if this sort of thing would be worth reporting for
removal
> or not, because I don't know them and the fact that they don't have
any
> links of their own suggests potential spam/abuse (i.e. automated fan
bot or
> something).
>
> I guess it isn't so much that this person can see the bookmarks as it
is
> that any stranger can come along and add me, without my permission,
and I
> have no way of knowing who it is. I mean if they can access my public
> boomarks anyway, there would be no reason to be a fan of mine or even
a part

> of my network. Surely there has to be a way to control who can be a
> fan/network member, or such a thing can be considered for addition.
>
>
> Tim :-) http://nbajammer.epop3.com <http://nbajammer.epop3.com>
> http://www.myspace.com/nbajammer/ <http://www.myspace.com/nbajammer/>
> ICQ # 5756489 Yahoo: nba_jammer77 AIM: nbajam77
> MSN: nbajam77 Xfire: nbajammer
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Britta Gustafson" <brittag@...>
> To: <ydn-delicious@...

<mailto:ydn-delicious%40yahoogroups.com> >
> Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2007 5:56 PM
> Subject: [ydn-delicious] Re: Network Privacy
>
>
> > Hi! There's no way to remove people from your network right now,
except in
> > the case of
> > spam or other abuse (harassment, etc.), which we're happy to remove
if you
> > report it
> > directly to one of us.
> >
> > The reasoning for the lack of control over network additions is that

> > anybody can see your
> > public bookmarks and/or subscribe to your bookmarks' RSS feed in a
> > newsreader. A
> > person adding you to their network is just another way of viewing
your
> > public bookmarks -
> > so removing that person from your "fans" list wouldn't prevent them
from
> > seeing your
> > bookmarks in any other way.
> >
> > We've considered adding a way to hide specific usernames from your
"fans"
> > list, which
> > would be useful for example to a teacher who has a "fan" with a
username
> > that contains
> > profanity (or other material the teacher doesn't want his/her
students to
> > be exposed to),
> > but there are some issues with that, so we'll still thinking about
it.
> > Would that be a
> > solution to your problem?
> >
> > Britta
> > del.icio.us community manager intern
> >
> > --- In ydn-delicious@...
<mailto:ydn-delicious%40yahoogroups.com> , "Tim Schoon" <gamemaster@>
wrote:
> >>
> >> Is there a way to prevent people you don't know from adding you to
their
> >> network?
>

 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Britta Gustafson]

Thank you for all the details -- they're helpful to us as we think about
the right things to do with the network feature in the future. For the
time being, you can click the little grey triangle next to your "fans"
list to hide the names from your view (if you haven't done that
already). It also sounds like that "hide specific fan" option would
still be a potential solution in this case, and we'll definitely think
about it.

Britta
del.icio.us community manager intern

--- In ydn-delicious@..., "Tim Schoon" <gamemaster@...> wrote:

>
> It helps explain, but it could be made more clear. Yet I still think there
> needs to be some kind of authorization put in or at the bare minimum only
> have it display the people I've added (mutually, or who I am looking at but
> who have not mutually added me). There's nothing in my public bookmarks that
> people can't see, but I'm not putting the bookmarks there to be linked to by
> just anybody. If John Doe wants to see what I've bookmarked, and knows my
> username, and knows how to use del.icio.us, he can just type in the link to
> it and go directly and then add to their browser's favorites or something
> like that. But every time I visit I see the name of this unknown stranger on
> my page, and it bothers me. I'd really rather not know that some stranger is
> a fan of my bookmarks. If that could be addressed, I'd feel a lot better.
>
>
>
> Tim :-)      http://nbajammer.epop3.com
> http://www.myspace.com/nbajammer/
> ICQ # 5756489   Yahoo: nba_jammer77  AIM: nbajam77
> MSN: nbajam77  Xfire: nbajammer
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Britta Gustafson" <brittag@...>
> To: <ydn-delicious@...>
> Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2007 7:22 PM
> Subject: [ydn-delicious] Re: Network Privacy
>
>
> > On Flickr, when somebody adds you to their contacts, you get a note that
> > says "If you don't know [username], [username] is probably a fan of your
> > photos or wants a bookmark so they can find you again. There is no
> > obligation for you to reciprocate, unless you want to." This is true on
> > del.icio.us too: when somebody adds you to their network, it's usually a
> > small expression of interest in what you're bookmarking - the person
> > just wants an easy way to see your public bookmarks. Does that help
> > explain the current network/fans system? We can try to make that message
> > more clear on the website.
> >
> > We originally didn't include a list of "fans" on network pages at all,
> > partly to avoid the impression of a popularity contest, but we found
> > that people were curious about who was paying attention to their
> > bookmarks.
> >
> > Britta
> > del.icio.us community manager intern
>

[Roberto Pereira]

We're working with a Cognitive Authority Network, and we found the same
problem. However, we planned this:
" I add Britta to my network, and so, Britta will receive a message asking
her agreement. If Britta doesn't agree with it, She will appear on my
network - but only to me (it's not public). On the other hand, if Britta
agree with it, She will appear openly for anybody to see."

The fact is: even if Britta doesn't agree with my wish of to add her on my
network, it will not change my desire, it only says: "there is a
disagreement between us", and how de bookmarks pages are public, I'll see
Britta bookmarks the same way that I did it before. But, If Britta doesn't
want to be on my network, She has this right, so She will not appear on my
network openly (only to me), and neither Britta nor anybody will be able to
see it anymore.

We're following the principle of "Blessed Authority" (Theory of Cognitive
Authority) which determines that a person should be able to agree - or not -
with the authority received. It can avoid conflicts amongst users, and other
problems of the same nature.

=)

Robert


2007/11/28, Britta Gustafson <brittag@...>:

>
>   Thank you for all the details -- they're helpful to us as we think about
> the right things to do with the network feature in the future. For the
> time being, you can click the little grey triangle next to your "fans"
> list to hide the names from your view (if you haven't done that
> already). It also sounds like that "hide specific fan" option would
> still be a potential solution in this case, and we'll definitely think
> about it.
>
> Britta
> del.icio.us community manager intern
>
> --- In ydn-delicious@... <ydn-delicious%40yahoogroups.com>,
> "Tim Schoon" <gamemaster@...> wrote:
> >
> > It helps explain, but it could be made more clear. Yet I still think
> there
> > needs to be some kind of authorization put in or at the bare minimum
> only
> > have it display the people I've added (mutually, or who I am looking at
> but
> > who have not mutually added me). There's nothing in my public bookmarks
> that
> > people can't see, but I'm not putting the bookmarks there to be linked
> to by
> > just anybody. If John Doe wants to see what I've bookmarked, and knows
> my
> > username, and knows how to use del.icio.us, he can just type in the link
> to
> > it and go directly and then add to their browser's favorites or
> something
> > like that. But every time I visit I see the name of this unknown
> stranger on
> > my page, and it bothers me. I'd really rather not know that some
> stranger is
> > a fan of my bookmarks. If that could be addressed, I'd feel a lot
> better.
> >
> >
> >
> > Tim :-) http://nbajammer.epop3.com
> > http://www.myspace.com/nbajammer/
> > ICQ # 5756489 Yahoo: nba_jammer77 AIM: nbajam77
> > MSN: nbajam77 Xfire: nbajammer
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Britta Gustafson" <brittag@...>
> > To: <ydn-delicious@... <ydn-delicious%40yahoogroups.com>>
> > Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2007 7:22 PM
> > Subject: [ydn-delicious] Re: Network Privacy
> >
> >
> > > On Flickr, when somebody adds you to their contacts, you get a note
> that
> > > says "If you don't know [username], [username] is probably a fan of
> your
> > > photos or wants a bookmark so they can find you again. There is no
> > > obligation for you to reciprocate, unless you want to." This is true
> on
> > > del.icio.us too: when somebody adds you to their network, it's usually
> a
> > > small expression of interest in what you're bookmarking - the person
> > > just wants an easy way to see your public bookmarks. Does that help
> > > explain the current network/fans system? We can try to make that
> message
> > > more clear on the website.
> > >
> > > We originally didn't include a list of "fans" on network pages at all,
> > > partly to avoid the impression of a popularity contest, but we found
> > > that people were curious about who was paying attention to their
> > > bookmarks.
> > >
> > > Britta
> > > del.icio.us community manager intern
> >
>
>  
>

--
Roberto Pereira
PCC - Programa de Pós-Graduação em Ciência da Computação
UEM - Universidade Estadual de Maringá
44-3261-4070


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[telarson]

Tim Schoon <> wrote:
> It'd be a nice start. I don't mind my bookmarks being publicly
> accessible, lest I wouldn't have a del.icio.us account, but things
> like my fans/network I want to keep private amongst myself and those I
> wish to add to it (or whom I approve). Because I don't know who this
> other person is, or how they know me or why they would even add me in
> the first place, it really creeps me out.

Personally, I think it's a little _less_ "creepy" that someone has
visibly "subscribed" to the "Tim Schoon channel".  At least you know
that Person X out there is reviewing your links.  Isn't it more "creepy"
to think that hordes of _completely anonymous_ people are looking at
what you've bookmarked?  But you don't mind that.

> I guess it isn't so much that this person can see the bookmarks as it
> is that any stranger can come along and add me, without my permission,
> and I have no way of knowing who it is. I mean if they can access my
> public boomarks anyway, there would be no reason to be a fan of mine
> or even a part of my network. Surely there has to be a way to control
> who can be a fan/network member, or such a thing can be considered for
> addition.      

I imagine it's merely a convenience.  He/she can go directly to "my
network" instead of looking you up manually.

No disrespect intended, but this sounds a bit like paranoia.  If you
don't like the social aspects of a social bookmarking site, then you
shouldn't be using it.

Most people would consider having fans a good thing.  Can you control
who is a fan of yours in real life?  

> I'd really rather not know that some stranger is a fan of my
bookmarks.

Ignorance is bliss???  Seriously...you're revealing a ton about yourself
(through bookmarking habits) on a public site, you post half a dozen
forms of contact in an email in a public forum, and you're worried about
being seen by fans?  Putting your head in the sand won't change any of
that.


Tim
--
Tim Larson        AMT2 Unix Systems Administrator
    InterCall, a division of West Corporation

               Eschew obfuscation!

[Britta Gustafson]

That's an interesting system - it takes into account the desires of each
person involved. It sounds especially good for people who feel like
their reputations are judged by the kind of fans they have, making it
worth taking the time to study and approve or deny each requested public
association. (So it might work for a social network of politicians or
something like that.)

We'd think carefully before adding any complexity to the del.icio.us
network system because its current simplicity works pretty well: it
makes people's bookmark-watching relationships explicit and leaves
everything else about their relationships implicit. That makes sense
because del.icio.us is focused on bookmarking. If we decide this isn't
working well enough, we'll try to make the simplest change that'll fix
the problem. :)

Britta
del.icio.us community manager intern

--- In ydn-delicious@..., "Roberto Pereira" <roberto.uem@...> wrote:

>
> We're working with a Cognitive Authority Network, and we found the same
> problem. However, we planned this:
> " I add Britta to my network, and so, Britta will receive a message asking
> her agreement. If Britta doesn't agree with it, She will appear on my
> network - but only to me (it's not public). On the other hand, if Britta
> agree with it, She will appear openly for anybody to see."
>
> The fact is: even if Britta doesn't agree with my wish of to add her on my
> network, it will not change my desire, it only says: "there is a
> disagreement between us", and how de bookmarks pages are public, I'll see
> Britta bookmarks the same way that I did it before. But, If Britta doesn't
> want to be on my network, She has this right, so She will not appear on my
> network openly (only to me), and neither Britta nor anybody will be able to
> see it anymore.
>
> We're following the principle of "Blessed Authority" (Theory of Cognitive
> Authority) which determines that a person should be able to agree - or not -
> with the authority received. It can avoid conflicts amongst users, and other
> problems of the same nature.
>
> =)
>
> Robert
>
>
> 2007/11/28, Britta Gustafson <brittag@...>:
> >
> >   Thank you for all the details -- they're helpful to us as we think about
> > the right things to do with the network feature in the future. For the
> > time being, you can click the little grey triangle next to your "fans"
> > list to hide the names from your view (if you haven't done that
> > already). It also sounds like that "hide specific fan" option would
> > still be a potential solution in this case, and we'll definitely think
> > about it.
> >
> > Britta
> > del.icio.us community manager intern
> >
> > --- In ydn-delicious@... <ydn-delicious%40yahoogroups.com>,
> > "Tim Schoon" <gamemaster@> wrote:
> > >
> > > It helps explain, but it could be made more clear. Yet I still think
> > there
> > > needs to be some kind of authorization put in or at the bare minimum
> > only
> > > have it display the people I've added (mutually, or who I am looking at
> > but
> > > who have not mutually added me). There's nothing in my public bookmarks
> > that
> > > people can't see, but I'm not putting the bookmarks there to be linked
> > to by
> > > just anybody. If John Doe wants to see what I've bookmarked, and knows
> > my
> > > username, and knows how to use del.icio.us, he can just type in the link
> > to
> > > it and go directly and then add to their browser's favorites or
> > something
> > > like that. But every time I visit I see the name of this unknown
> > stranger on
> > > my page, and it bothers me. I'd really rather not know that some
> > stranger is
> > > a fan of my bookmarks. If that could be addressed, I'd feel a lot
> > better.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Tim :-) http://nbajammer.epop3.com
> > > http://www.myspace.com/nbajammer/
> > > ICQ # 5756489 Yahoo: nba_jammer77 AIM: nbajam77
> > > MSN: nbajam77 Xfire: nbajammer
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Britta Gustafson" <brittag@>
> > > To: <ydn-delicious@... <ydn-delicious%40yahoogroups.com>>
> > > Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2007 7:22 PM
> > > Subject: [ydn-delicious] Re: Network Privacy
> > >
> > >
> > > > On Flickr, when somebody adds you to their contacts, you get a note
> > that
> > > > says "If you don't know [username], [username] is probably a fan of
> > your
> > > > photos or wants a bookmark so they can find you again. There is no
> > > > obligation for you to reciprocate, unless you want to." This is true
> > on
> > > > del.icio.us too: when somebody adds you to their network, it's usually
> > a
> > > > small expression of interest in what you're bookmarking - the person
> > > > just wants an easy way to see your public bookmarks. Does that help
> > > > explain the current network/fans system? We can try to make that
> > message
> > > > more clear on the website.
> > > >
> > > > We originally didn't include a list of "fans" on network pages at all,
> > > > partly to avoid the impression of a popularity contest, but we found
> > > > that people were curious about who was paying attention to their
> > > > bookmarks.
> > > >
> > > > Britta
> > > > del.icio.us community manager intern
> > >
> >
> >  
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Roberto Pereira
> PCC - Programa de Pós-Graduação em Ciência da Computação
> UEM - Universidade Estadual de Maringá
> 44-3261-4070
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

[Tim Schoon]

Not to re-hash the old thread, but there's something I failed to
point out upon reviewing it...and more to add as well.

> Personally, I think it's a little _less_ "creepy" that someone has
> visibly "subscribed" to the "Tim Schoon channel".  At least you know
> that Person X out there is reviewing your links.  Isn't it
more "creepy"
> to think that hordes of _completely anonymous_ people are looking at
> what you've bookmarked?  But you don't mind that.

There's a difference between publicly accessibly bookarks, and adding
one's self to a person's network without their explicit permission
which does nothing more than state there is an association between me
and this other person. My mutual network contact (my mother) is
someone I know and approve of. The other is someone I don't know who
has no reason to display me as a person they are associated with.
Even without me being a part of their network they can still view my
public bookmarks - that's not the problem.

> I imagine it's merely a convenience.  He/she can go directly to "my
> network" instead of looking you up manually.
>
> No disrespect intended, but this sounds a bit like paranoia.  If you
> don't like the social aspects of a social bookmarking site, then you
> shouldn't be using it.
>

Still, I am not associated with the person in question and I do not
want it displayed that there is.

And before you slap the word paranoia into this, remember
that "Paranoid thinking typically includes persecutory beliefs
concerning a perceived threat." (from Wikipedia). There's no
perceived threat here. I do not feel threatened by this person, only
a given association that does not exist. It's part of the social
networking aspect of del.icio.us. And while we're at it, it's not an
issue of whether I like or not - clearly I do, if I've added my
mother. What I don't like is being forced to have someone on my
network that I don't want there. Sites like MySpace and Facebook
require you to approve them before they are added as a matter of
privacy. As Britta (I think, maybe someone else) said in the newer
thread, it's all about how people choose to use del.icio.us. I choose
to have it store my bookmarks in one place, accessible from anywhere,
and to be able to network with people I approve of. That means, no
strangers at all.

> Most people would consider having fans a good thing.  Can you
control
> who is a fan of yours in real life?

Fans of mine in real life cannot add me to their network without my
approval, lest it be called harrassment (in one form or other). They
can be my fan without my having to know about it. Not the case here.

> Ignorance is bliss???  Seriously...you're revealing a ton about
yourself
> (through bookmarking habits) on a public site, you post half a dozen
> forms of contact in an email in a public forum, and you're worried
about
> being seen by fans?  Putting your head in the sand won't change any
of
> that.

The information I've chosen to include in my signature and through
bookmarking habits is information I have CHOSEN to share. Again,
there is a difference between being seen by fans, and to have them
intrude where you would rather they not be unless you yourself have
given them permission. I did not grant the person in question
permission. They do not need to be a part of my network to view my
bookmarks.






Tim :-)      http://nbajammer.epop3.com
http://www.myspace.com/nbajammer/
ICQ # 5756489   Yahoo: nba_jammer77  AIM: nbajam77
MSN: nbajam77  Xfire: nbajammer


--- In ydn-delicious@..., "Larson, Timothy E."
<telarson@...> wrote:
>

[snipped for above]

> Tim
> --
> Tim Larson        AMT2 Unix Systems Administrator
>     InterCall, a division of West Corporation
>
>                Eschew obfuscation!

[Britta Gustafson]

In real life there are many kinds of "fan", including a person who reads
your book (an invisible fan) and a person in the audience at your
presentation (a visible fan). I think of Delicious fans like those
audience members - the speaker or bookmarker didn't handpick them -
they're just listening. I believe most people looking at a network would
understand that the person's "fans" may not have any other association
with that person.

It sounds like you'd be interested in having semi-private bookmarks,
visible only to people you've added to your network. Delicious doesn't
have that feature but it's on the grand list of things we've been
thinking about for a while.

Britta
Del.icio.us community manager intern

--- In ydn-delicious@..., "Tim" <gamemaster@...> wrote:

>
> Not to re-hash the old thread, but there's something I failed to
> point out upon reviewing it...and more to add as well.
>
> > Personally, I think it's a little _less_ "creepy" that someone has
> > visibly "subscribed" to the "Tim Schoon channel".  At least you know
> > that Person X out there is reviewing your links.  Isn't it
> more "creepy"
> > to think that hordes of _completely anonymous_ people are looking at
> > what you've bookmarked?  But you don't mind that.
>
> There's a difference between publicly accessibly bookarks, and adding
> one's self to a person's network without their explicit permission
> which does nothing more than state there is an association between me
> and this other person. My mutual network contact (my mother) is
> someone I know and approve of. The other is someone I don't know who
> has no reason to display me as a person they are associated with.
> Even without me being a part of their network they can still view my
> public bookmarks - that's not the problem.
>
> > I imagine it's merely a convenience.  He/she can go directly to "my
> > network" instead of looking you up manually.
> >
> > No disrespect intended, but this sounds a bit like paranoia.  If you
> > don't like the social aspects of a social bookmarking site, then you
> > shouldn't be using it.
> >
>
> Still, I am not associated with the person in question and I do not
> want it displayed that there is.
>
> And before you slap the word paranoia into this, remember
> that "Paranoid thinking typically includes persecutory beliefs
> concerning a perceived threat." (from Wikipedia). There's no
> perceived threat here. I do not feel threatened by this person, only
> a given association that does not exist. It's part of the social
> networking aspect of del.icio.us. And while we're at it, it's not an
> issue of whether I like or not - clearly I do, if I've added my
> mother. What I don't like is being forced to have someone on my
> network that I don't want there. Sites like MySpace and Facebook
> require you to approve them before they are added as a matter of
> privacy. As Britta (I think, maybe someone else) said in the newer
> thread, it's all about how people choose to use del.icio.us. I choose
> to have it store my bookmarks in one place, accessible from anywhere,
> and to be able to network with people I approve of. That means, no
> strangers at all.
>
> > Most people would consider having fans a good thing.  Can you
> control
> > who is a fan of yours in real life?
>
> Fans of mine in real life cannot add me to their network without my
> approval, lest it be called harrassment (in one form or other). They
> can be my fan without my having to know about it. Not the case here.
>
> > Ignorance is bliss???  Seriously...you're revealing a ton about
> yourself
> > (through bookmarking habits) on a public site, you post half a dozen
> > forms of contact in an email in a public forum, and you're worried
> about
> > being seen by fans?  Putting your head in the sand won't change any
> of
> > that.
>
> The information I've chosen to include in my signature and through
> bookmarking habits is information I have CHOSEN to share. Again,
> there is a difference between being seen by fans, and to have them
> intrude where you would rather they not be unless you yourself have
> given them permission. I did not grant the person in question
> permission. They do not need to be a part of my network to view my
> bookmarks.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Tim :-)      http://nbajammer.epop3.com
> http://www.myspace.com/nbajammer/
> ICQ # 5756489   Yahoo: nba_jammer77  AIM: nbajam77
> MSN: nbajam77  Xfire: nbajammer
>
>
> --- In ydn-delicious@..., "Larson, Timothy E."
> <telarson@> wrote:
> >
>
> [snipped for above]
>
> > Tim
> > --
> > Tim Larson        AMT2 Unix Systems Administrator
> >     InterCall, a division of West Corporation
> >
> >                Eschew obfuscation!
>