Naylor Auction Catalog - YIKES Doesn't Describe What I See ... And it's Not What You Think

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Naylor Auction Catalog - YIKES Doesn't Describe What I See ... And it's Not What You Think

by Rob Niederman :: Rate this Message:

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Okay … so I took a chance and spent the money on the Naylor auction catalog. Given the scope and importance of the collection, it should be a reference worth owning … or so I thought.

 

Although nice on the surface, it didn’t take but a few minutes of perusing the camera section to see how incredibly poor the production and editing is. Actually, things got odder the deeper into the catalog I delved into apparatus that takes pictures.

 

  • Who’s Minding the Store? Many cameras are incorrectly identified … not even close to being correct. For example, a camera that could be a stereo Anthony or AOC is listed as a No. 6 Circuit. (Yup … Cirkut spelled as Circuit.)  What appears to be a Wing Little Giant is listed as a “Mono or Stereo Camera” by Scovill.  Interestingly, the Scovill Waterbury View is listed as a Debrie Sept. Now I don’t claim to be the world’s foremost expert on cameras, but some of these are errors are pretty awful. Oh … drum roll please … THE winner of the category for “best impersonation of a rare camera” goes to Lot C108. The image shows what appears to be a “gotta have” Roberts 16-tube wetplate. The listing describes a “No.1 Panoram Kodak.”  (Queue the audience for loud applause.)

 

  • Keep ‘em Guessing Is My Motto: Many of the cameras illustrated on pages do not have Lot numbers associated with them. For instance, a Bell’s Straight Working Panoramic is shown on a page with no Lot number. Then again, I couldn’t find a Lot matching the Bell’s.

                                                      

  • Who’s On First? The catalog organization is confusing. Starts with cameras, goes to images, viewers, special interest stuff, pre-photography, more cameras, etc.  Is this the way Naylor organized his collection? Oddly, the first Lot is the “Edwin Land polaroid Collection,” then subsequent lots go into magnet cameras (e.g. Leicas). Wood and brass make an appearance later on. The really rare dag equipment appears in a section dedicated to the dag period deep in the heart of the catalog after numerous image Lots. Even the section containing cameras doesn’t appear to have any rationale. Here’s one of my favorite sequences:

 

-          C86: Professional Ansco View (c1940)

-          C87: Multiplying Camera c1870. Huh?  In reality, the image shows a beautiful Wing camera. The camera must be embarrassed by being so historically important while next to more mundane items and wanted to be listed simply as a Multiplying Camera.

-          C88: Penny Picture Camera c1890. In real life, this is an Anthony Climax Multiplying Camera.

-          C89: Sunflower Multiplying Camera, 1899. I have one of these in my collection. The patent application is 1901. And … a couple sentences were repeated in the description. I guess this is really important and there will be a test later. Sheesh.

-          C90: Ruby Reflex Tropical Camera.

-          C92: 620 Snap Shot Camera … The description identifies it as a Roy Rogers Camera by Herbert George. Another case of embarrassment?

-          C92: Brownie Target Six-20

-          C93: Century Studio Camera No.1

-          C94: Royal Ruby Folding Camera

-          C95: Bon Ton 5 Minute Picture Camera

-          C96: Nine Lens Success Camera … Yup … the image shows an early 1870s Success Model.

 

            Okay … you all get the idea.

 

  • Surprise! … Starting on page 112 and continuing through page 115 is “The Naylor Espionage Collection.”  Nice stuff is here including the famous Scovill Book Camera … you name it.  All grouped together giving me the impression that this is a single Lot. No descriptions on any of the equipment. Guess what? The catalog states that only a small portion of the collection is shown and to contact them if you want details, etc. They’ve got to be kidding.

 

 

“If you have to ask the price, you can’t afford it” (Sing to the tune of “How Much Is That Camera in the Window?) There are no bid estimates or anything. Actually, the Plumbe dag has a $60,000 - $80,000 range (estimate?).  The website does not have a price sheet. How is someone supposed to consider bidding? Fine … the catalogue says Internet bidding is available and live bidding can be done at liveautions.com.  Hmmm … nothing there either. Oh … did I mention the 22% buyer’s premium?

 

We’re just about one month from the auction and the catalog is inaccurate, Lot prices not available, etc. You would think that this prestigious, historically important collection would be better represented and organized.

 

On the other hand, the images are nice and some rare items are shown.

 

Hold a sec … maybe I received a rare prototype of the Guernsey’s auction catalog for the Naylor collection. Gee. Maybe it will be worth money someday.

 

The auction house will receive comments.

 

- Rob


RE: Naylor Auction Catalog - YIKES Doesn't Describe What I See... And it's Not What You Think

by Bob Kulinski :: Rate this Message:

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Rob has accurately outlined the problems with  this rare collectible $50 auction catalogue. Jack must be terribly emrarrassed by this publication. And the lack of auction ranges is appalling. I never heard of Guernsey befor - maybe this is why?

From: woodandbrass-bounces@... [woodandbrass-bounces@...] On Behalf Of Rob Niederman [rniederman@...]
Sent: Monday, September 17, 2007 9:38 PM
To: Woodandbrass@...
Subject: [W&B] Naylor Auction Catalog - YIKES Doesn't Describe What I See... And it's Not What You Think

Okay … so I took a chance and spent the money on the Naylor auction catalog. Given the scope and importance of the collection, it should be a reference worth owning … or so I thought.

 

Although nice on the surface, it didn’t take but a few minutes of perusing the camera section to see how incredibly poor the production and editing is. Actually, things got odder the deeper into the catalog I delved into apparatus that takes pictures.

 

  • Who’s Minding the Store? Many cameras are incorrectly identified … not even close to being correct. For example, a camera that could be a stereo Anthony or AOC is listed as a No. 6 Circuit. (Yup … Cirkut spelled as Circuit.)  What appears to be a Wing Little Giant is listed as a “Mono or Stereo Camera” by Scovill.  Interestingly, the Scovill Waterbury View is listed as a Debrie Sept. Now I don’t claim to be the world’s foremost expert on cameras, but some of these are errors are pretty awful. Oh … drum roll please … THE winner of the category for “best impersonation of a rare camera” goes to Lot C108. The image shows what appears to be a “gotta have” Roberts 16-tube wetplate. The listing describes a “No.1 Panoram Kodak.”  (Queue the audience for loud applause.)

 

  • Keep ‘em Guessing Is My Motto: Many of the cameras illustrated on pages do not have Lot numbers associated with them. For instance, a Bell’s Straight Working Panoramic is shown on a page with no Lot number. Then again, I couldn’t find a Lot matching the Bell’s.

                                                      

  • Who’s On First? The catalog organization is confusing. Starts with cameras, goes to images, viewers, special interest stuff, pre-photography, more cameras, etc.  Is this the way Naylor organized his collection? Oddly, the first Lot is the “Edwin Land polaroid Collection,” then subsequent lots go into magnet cameras (e.g. Leicas). Wood and brass make an appearance later on. The really rare dag equipment appears in a section dedicated to the dag period deep in the heart of the catalog after numerous image Lots. Even the section containing cameras doesn’t appear to have any rationale. Here’s one of my favorite sequences:

 

-          C86: Professional Ansco View (c1940)

-          C87: Multiplying Camera c1870. Huh?  In reality, the image shows a beautiful Wing camera. The camera must be embarrassed by being so historically important while next to more mundane items and wanted to be listed simply as a Multiplying Camera.

-          C88: Penny Picture Camera c1890. In real life, this is an Anthony Climax Multiplying Camera.

-          C89: Sunflower Multiplying Camera, 1899. I have one of these in my collection. The patent application is 1901. And … a couple sentences were repeated in the description. I guess this is really important and there will be a test later. Sheesh.

-          C90: Ruby Reflex Tropical Camera.

-          C92: 620 Snap Shot Camera … The description identifies it as a Roy Rogers Camera by Herbert George. Another case of embarrassment?

-          C92: Brownie Target Six-20

-          C93: Century Studio Camera No.1

-          C94: Royal Ruby Folding Camera

-          C95: Bon Ton 5 Minute Picture Camera

-          C96: Nine Lens Success Camera … Yup … the image shows an early 1870s Success Model.

 

            Okay … you all get the idea.

 

  • Surprise! … Starting on page 112 and continuing through page 115 is “The Naylor Espionage Collection.”  Nice stuff is here including the famous Scovill Book Camera … you name it.  All grouped together giving me the impression that this is a single Lot. No descriptions on any of the equipment. Guess what? The catalog states that only a small portion of the collection is shown and to contact them if you want details, etc. They’ve got to be kidding.

 

 

“If you have to ask the price, you can’t afford it” (Sing to the tune of “How Much Is That Camera in the Window?) There are no bid estimates or anything. Actually, the Plumbe dag has a $60,000 - $80,000 range (estimate?).  The website does not have a price sheet. How is someone supposed to consider bidding? Fine … the catalogue says Internet bidding is available and live bidding can be done at liveautions.com.  Hmmm … nothing there either. Oh … did I mention the 22% buyer’s premium?

 

We’re just about one month from the auction and the catalog is inaccurate, Lot prices not available, etc. You would think that this prestigious, historically important collection would be better represented and organized.

 

On the other hand, the images are nice and some rare items are shown.

 

Hold a sec … maybe I received a rare prototype of the Guernsey’s auction catalog for the Naylor collection. Gee. Maybe it will be worth money someday.

 

The auction house will receive comments.

 

- Rob


Re: Naylor Auction Catalog - YIKES Doesn't Describe What I See ... And it's Not What You Think

by Benjamin Ehrman :: Rate this Message:

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On 9/17/07 Rob Niederman wrote:

>Okay . so I took a chance and spent the money on the Naylor auction
>catalog. Given the scope and importance of the collection, it should be
>a reference worth owning . or so I thought.
>
>Although nice on the surface, it didn't take but a few minutes of
>perusing the camera section to see how incredibly poor the production
>and editing is. Actually, things got odder the deeper into the catalog I
>delved into apparatus that takes pictures.


Does any of this really matter?  

I suspect that the oil-rich sheik from the middle east that's been buying up
everything over the last few years - i.e. the Spira Collection, and the phone
bidder that would buy every single Christie's lot regardless of price (remember
him?) - will not be outbid on any of the lots (certainly none of the really
great stuff).

Might have been easier for Jack to just had the sheik send his private plane
over, have his staff box the stuff up, take it away and have the cash deposited
into a Swiss bank account.

Shame the $50 catalog is so disappointing.

-Ben

Parent Message unknown Re: Naylor Auction Catalog - YIKES Doesn't Describe What I See ... And it's Not What You Think

by SBShohet :: Rate this Message:

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I completely concur, Rob.  Even after only 15 minutes of cursory glances, I told Geraldine that I'd never seen so many errors in just the cameras.  If there is the same problem in the images (of which I know nothing and hence can't judge) Jack will be furious ... and, I expect, loose a good deal of money. Very sad.

Best, Steve



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SV: Naylor Auction Catalog - YIKES Doesn't Describe What I See... And it's Not What You Think

by Ake Borgstrom :: Rate this Message:

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I did order my catalog two weeks ago. No catalog, no reply mail and no money drawn from my VISA.

Guess I got luckey then J

 

/Ake

_____________________________________

PHOTOGRAPHICA.NU
Collector of Antique & 19th Century Cameras
email:
akeb@...
website:
http://www.photographica.nu


Från: woodandbrass-bounces@... [mailto:woodandbrass-bounces@...] För Rob Niederman
Skickat: Tuesday, September 18, 2007 3:39 AM
Till: Woodandbrass@...
Ämne: [W&B] Naylor Auction Catalog - YIKES Doesn't Describe What I See... And it's Not What You Think

 

Okay … so I took a chance and spent the money on the Naylor auction catalog. Given the scope and importance of the collection, it should be a reference worth owning … or so I thought.

 

Although nice on the surface, it didn’t take but a few minutes of perusing the camera section to see how incredibly poor the production and editing is. Actually, things got odder the deeper into the catalog I delved into apparatus that takes pictures.

 

  • Who’s Minding the Store? Many cameras are incorrectly identified … not even close to being correct. For example, a camera that could be a stereo Anthony or AOC is listed as a No. 6 Circuit. (Yup … Cirkut spelled as Circuit.)  What appears to be a Wing Little Giant is listed as a “Mono or Stereo Camera” by Scovill.  Interestingly, the Scovill Waterbury View is listed as a Debrie Sept. Now I don’t claim to be the world’s foremost expert on cameras, but some of these are errors are pretty awful. Oh … drum roll please … THE winner of the category for “best impersonation of a rare camera” goes to Lot C108. The image shows what appears to be a “gotta have” Roberts 16-tube wetplate. The listing describes a “No.1 Panoram Kodak.”  (Queue the audience for loud applause.)

 

  • Keep ‘em Guessing Is My Motto: Many of the cameras illustrated on pages do not have Lot numbers associated with them. For instance, a Bell’s Straight Working Panoramic is shown on a page with no Lot number. Then again, I couldn’t find a Lot matching the Bell’s.

                                                      

  • Who’s On First? The catalog organization is confusing. Starts with cameras, goes to images, viewers, special interest stuff, pre-photography, more cameras, etc.  Is this the way Naylor organized his collection? Oddly, the first Lot is the “Edwin Land polaroid Collection,” then subsequent lots go into magnet cameras (e.g. Leicas). Wood and brass make an appearance later on. The really rare dag equipment appears in a section dedicated to the dag period deep in the heart of the catalog after numerous image Lots. Even the section containing cameras doesn’t appear to have any rationale. Here’s one of my favorite sequences:

 

-          C86: Professional Ansco View (c1940)

-          C87: Multiplying Camera c1870. Huh?  In reality, the image shows a beautiful Wing camera. The camera must be embarrassed by being so historically important while next to more mundane items and wanted to be listed simply as a Multiplying Camera.

-          C88: Penny Picture Camera c1890. In real life, this is an Anthony Climax Multiplying Camera.

-          C89: Sunflower Multiplying Camera, 1899. I have one of these in my collection. The patent application is 1901. And … a couple sentences were repeated in the description. I guess this is really important and there will be a test later. Sheesh.

-          C90: Ruby Reflex Tropical Camera.

-          C92: 620 Snap Shot Camera … The description identifies it as a Roy Rogers Camera by Herbert George. Another case of embarrassment?

-          C92: Brownie Target Six-20

-          C93: Century Studio Camera No.1

-          C94: Royal Ruby Folding Camera

-          C95: Bon Ton 5 Minute Picture Camera

-          C96: Nine Lens Success Camera … Yup … the image shows an early 1870s Success Model.

 

            Okay … you all get the idea.

 

  • Surprise! … Starting on page 112 and continuing through page 115 is “The Naylor Espionage Collection.”  Nice stuff is here including the famous Scovill Book Camera … you name it.  All grouped together giving me the impression that this is a single Lot. No descriptions on any of the equipment. Guess what? The catalog states that only a small portion of the collection is shown and to contact them if you want details, etc. They’ve got to be kidding.

 

 

“If you have to ask the price, you can’t afford it” (Sing to the tune of “How Much Is That Camera in the Window?) There are no bid estimates or anything. Actually, the Plumbe dag has a $60,000 - $80,000 range (estimate?).  The website does not have a price sheet. How is someone supposed to consider bidding? Fine … the catalogue says Internet bidding is available and live bidding can be done at liveautions.com.  Hmmm … nothing there either. Oh … did I mention the 22% buyer’s premium?

 

We’re just about one month from the auction and the catalog is inaccurate, Lot prices not available, etc. You would think that this prestigious, historically important collection would be better represented and organized.

 

On the other hand, the images are nice and some rare items are shown.

 

Hold a sec … maybe I received a rare prototype of the Guernsey’s auction catalog for the Naylor collection. Gee. Maybe it will be worth money someday.

 

The auction house will receive comments.

 

- Rob


Re: Naylor Auction Catalog - YIKES Doesn't Describe What I See ... And it's Not What You Think

by kitsfolks :: Rate this Message:

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I have talked with the auction house to get any additional information I could about the auction. The items will go in the order  listed in the catalogue. They try to sell sixty lots per hour but she said that might be a problem with all the internet, phone & absent bidding. Thursday will go through the civil war items which will include the wood & brass cameras. The Dag cameras will sell in the Sunday session. She did say that if they get behind they will move some items into the next session. This could make for a long session on Sunday afternoon if each prior session falls behind. I ask how late the Sunday session might last and her best guess was "until all the lots are sold". I didn't as it that was AM or PM. The answer didn't help much for sorting out air travel.
There is going to be an addendum to the catalogue of about fifty items that they missed. She did not think any of these are cameras.
 
Greg Hillan
 

Re: Naylor Auction Catalog - YIKES Doesn't Describe What I See ... And it's Not What You Think

by Ralph & Bobbi London :: Rate this Message:

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On Tuesday, September 18, 2007, at 09:49  AM, kitsfolks@...
wrote:

> I have talked with the auction house to get any additional information
> I could about the auction. The items will go in the order  listed in
> the catalogue.

That is standard procedure.  Any other way (or major change) lies
madness.

> They try to sell sixty lots per hour but she said that might be a
> problem with all the internet, phone & absent bidding. 

As I recall, Westlicht in Vienna does far more than that per hour, at
least they did before adding internet bidding.  Phone and absent
bidders are just like floor bidders if the house does it right.  So
should internet bidding be if done right.  There should be no added
problems with these services.

> Thursday will go through the civil war items which will include the
> wood & brass cameras. The Dag cameras will sell in the Sunday session.
> She did say that if they get behind they will move some items into the
> next session. This could make for a long session on Sunday afternoon
> if each prior session falls behind. I asked how late the Sunday
> session might last and her best guess was "until all the lots are
> sold". I didn't ask it that was AM or PM. The answer didn't help much
> for sorting out air travel.

It would take a brave person to try to leave NYC by air (and arrive at
the airport two hours early whether JFK, LGA or EWR) on Sunday evening
after the auction that could well run late.  But I certainly understand
why you would want to try.

> There is going to be an addendum to the catalogue of about fifty items
> that they missed. She did not think any of these are cameras.

Given all there (as they apparently would write it) errors, the
addendum will be somewhat large.  In fact, the auction house just told
me they always publish a sheet or sheets of addenda/ errata to be given
to the bidders.  It will contain all the changes they uncover or
receive.  If it's another "book," so be it, they said.

Ralph


Re: Naylor Auction Catalog -condition "FUBAR"

by Mark Baltor :: Rate this Message:

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There ARE some problems with the dags; the most glaring is the dag on the cover, allegedly by Daguerre, but Guernsey's dating is "1839-1840". The dags of that period usually are similar to  cat. "D 218" on page 174 which IS 1839-1840, but which is identified as 1839-1855. . . The dag on the cover was obviously done using both Iodine and Bromine sensitization, more likely after 1843; D 218 was done using only Iodine sensitization as was typical of the dawn of photography attempts at portraiture.
The dags on pages 150-151 are not identified at all; the numbers and descriptions refer to other dags.
The entire catalogue needs to be redone, preferably by someone who knows one end of his own digestive tract from the other.
Mark Baltor
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, September 17, 2007 8:52 PM
Subject: Re: [W&B] Naylor Auction Catalog - YIKES Doesn't Describe What I See... And it's Not What You Think

I completely concur, Rob.  Even after only 15 minutes of cursory glances, I told Geraldine that I'd never seen so many errors in just the cameras.  If there is the same problem in the images (of which I know nothing and hence can't judge) Jack will be furious ... and, I expect, loose a good deal of money. Very sad.

Best, Steve



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Parent Message unknown Re: Naylor Auction Catalog -condition "FUBAR"

by Marenfred :: Rate this Message:

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Pity they didn't get Michael Pritchard to do the work.
Fred




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