NEW: HI-TECH CR PRO for the PIC10/12/16 MCU Family - Now Available

[Peter Riachi]

HI-TECH Software is very pleased to announce the release of this new
PRO ANSI C compiler, that comes with Omniscient Code Generation(tm),
supporting the PIC10/12/16 MCU Family.
 
For more details please visit the product forum post at
www.htsoft.com/forum/all/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/49102/an/0/page/0#P
ost49102.

Many thanks,

Peter Riachi
Chief Operating Officer, HI-TECH Software

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[Funny N.]

"Normally US$3,495.00 your special price is US$3,195.00"

Wow, I think Hi-Tech starts to rob money now.

Quality is downing and price is rising in a step of 10x. Your guys must got tons of MBAs to drive the cost so high. That's the way normal US company take, didn't realize the MBA is penetrating so far and over the Pacific Ocean.

I have both PICC18 V8.35 and V9.6x. The first one support less chip but has more built-in function for programmers. The 2nd one claimed to be better on this and that, but lost many good function a programmer can count on as the PICC18 V8.35.

(If I didn't try the V8.35, I won't even find that I used a bit variable but didn't claim it on my C file. It can still be successfully compiled on V9.6x, powerful but wrong. This is so typical on V9.6x. This makes me a bit hesitate to recommend the usual good product to people consulted me.)
 
Funny N.
Au Group Electronics, New Bedford, MA, http://www.AuElectronics.selfip.com

----- Original Message ----
From: Peter Riachi <priachi@...>
To: piclist@...
Sent: Sunday, April 6, 2008 9:09:01 PM
Subject: [AD] NEW: HI-TECH CR PRO for the PIC10/12/16 MCU Family - Now Available

HI-TECH Software is very pleased to announce the release of this new
PRO ANSI C compiler, that comes with Omniscient Code Generation(tm),
supporting the PIC10/12/16 MCU Family.
 
For more details please visit the product forum post at
www.htsoft.com/forum/all/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/49102/an/0/page/0#P
ost49102.

Many thanks,

Peter Riachi
Chief Operating Officer, HI-TECH Software

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[Funny N.]

Since I am still a user of the old HI-TIDE from HI-Tech, one product I really hate from HI-tech is the new HI-TIDE, which is based on Eclipse.

Compare with the old HI-TIDE, it is so big, so slow, and so easy to crash. It is JAVA based program, so you have to install lots of garbage before install the HI-TIDE. My new laptop has a fast CPU and 2 G of RAM, but the new HI-HIDE is still too slow to be used on big PIC18 projects. I tried different versions when they were released, but abandon them eventually. When the design concept was wrong from the beginning, the product will never be right.

The main reason I am still using the old-style HI-TIDE, is because I can split one C-file in many sub windows, so it can be changed at 5-6 different places for one C-file at the same time, and in the mean time, I can still keep an eye on other C-files without any issue, the new HI-TIDE just don't have this capability.

Though the new HI-TIDE claimed to be very powerful (I don't understand if it is so not-user friendly for programmers, who is going to use it even if it is free now.), It lost many of the important function for programmers (Edit code then compile the file, and that is it.) but pretty.

The new HI-TIDE is a pretty useless toolset I have ever used.
 
Funny N.
Au Group Electronics, New Bedford, MA, http://www.AuElectronics.selfip.com

----- Original Message ----
From: Peter Riachi <priachi@...>
To: piclist@...
Sent: Sunday, April 6, 2008 9:09:01 PM
Subject: [AD] NEW: HI-TECH CR PRO for the PIC10/12/16 MCU Family - Now Available

HI-TECH Software is very pleased to announce the release of this new
PRO ANSI C compiler, that comes with Omniscient Code Generation(tm),
supporting the PIC10/12/16 MCU Family.
 
For more details please visit the product forum post at
www.htsoft.com/forum/all/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/49102/an/0/page/0#P
ost49102.

Many thanks,

Peter Riachi
Chief Operating Officer, HI-TECH Software

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[Peter Riachi]

Hi Funny N.

Thanks for the feedback. A couple of things:

1. The quoted prices:

The prices to which you referred is for PICC Enterprise Edition, a
package consisting of three compilers: HI-TECH C PRO for the
PIC10/12/16 MCU Family; PICC-18 PRO; and HI-TECH for the dsPIC/PIC24 -
it's a package supporting ALL PICmicro MCUs & DSCs.

The pricing for the HI-TECH C PRO for the PIC10/12/16 MCU Family ANSI
C compiler for New Customers .....

    * Save US$300.00: Normally US$1,495.00 your special price is
US$1,195.00.

2. Comments on PICC-18 PRO

The PICC-18 PRO v9.62 is currently being tested.  When the PICC-18 PRO
is released you, as a current license owner, will receive it free of
charge - and I will be making arrangements for all PICC-18 PRO
customers who bought PICC-18 PRO v9.61 to receive an extra 1 year
maintenance support.
 
If you have the time please access the PICC-18 PRO v9.62 test version
from here:
Windows:
http://updates.htsoft.com/picc18-pro-rc9.62/HCPIC18-pro-9.62.2046.exe
you will need the following special serial number HCPIC18P-277059278
(at this stage valid until 30 April 2008).

Many thanks again for your feedback.

Take care,

Peter

> -----Original Message-----
> From: piclist-bounces@...
> [mailto:piclist-bounces@...] On Behalf Of Funny NYPD
> Sent: Monday, 7 April 2008 1:29 PM
> To: Microcontroller discussion list - Public.
> Subject: Re: [AD] NEW: HI-TECH CR PRO for the PIC10/12/16 MCU
> Family - NowAvailable
>
> "Normally US$3,495.00 your special price is US$3,195.00"
>
> Wow, I think Hi-Tech starts to rob money now.
>
> Quality is downing and price is rising in a step of 10x. Your
> guys must got tons of MBAs to drive the cost so high. That's
> the way normal US company take, didn't realize the MBA is
> penetrating so far and over the Pacific Ocean.
>
> I have both PICC18 V8.35 and V9.6x. The first one support
> less chip but has more built-in function for programmers. The
> 2nd one claimed to be better on this and that, but lost many
> good function a programmer can count on as the PICC18 V8.35.
>
> (If I didn't try the V8.35, I won't even find that I used a
> bit variable but didn't claim it on my C file. It can still
> be successfully compiled on V9.6x, powerful but wrong. This
> is so typical on V9.6x. This makes me a bit hesitate to
> recommend the usual good product to people consulted me.)
>  
> Funny N.
> Au Group Electronics, New Bedford, MA,
> http://www.AuElectronics.selfip.com
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Peter Riachi <priachi@...>
> To: piclist@...
> Sent: Sunday, April 6, 2008 9:09:01 PM
> Subject: [AD] NEW: HI-TECH CR PRO for the PIC10/12/16 MCU
> Family - Now Available
>
> HI-TECH Software is very pleased to announce the release of
> this new PRO ANSI C compiler, that comes with Omniscient Code
> Generation(tm), supporting the PIC10/12/16 MCU Family.
>  
> For more details please visit the product forum post at
>

www.htsoft.com/forum/all/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/49102/an/0/page/0#P

> ost49102.
>
> Many thanks,
>
> Peter Riachi
> Chief Operating Officer, HI-TECH Software
>
> --
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> your membership options at
> http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist
>
>
>
>
>
>
>      
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> Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost.  
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[Peter Riachi]

Hi again

If you don't like Eclipse, that's fair enough. It was a choice we made
& based on customer feedback it was the right one.

The following forum thread may be of interest to you:

http://www.htsoft.com/forum/all/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/31333/an/0/p
age/0#Post31333

Take care,

Peter

> -----Original Message-----
> From: piclist-bounces@...
> [mailto:piclist-bounces@...] On Behalf Of Funny NYPD
> Sent: Monday, 7 April 2008 2:03 PM
> To: Microcontroller discussion list - Public.
> Subject: Re: [AD] NEW: HI-TECH CR PRO for the PIC10/12/16 MCU
> Family - NowAvailable
>
> Since I am still a user of the old HI-TIDE from HI-Tech, one
> product I really hate from HI-tech is the new HI-TIDE, which
> is based on Eclipse.
>
> Compare with the old HI-TIDE, it is so big, so slow, and so
> easy to crash. It is JAVA based program, so you have to
> install lots of garbage before install the HI-TIDE. My new
> laptop has a fast CPU and 2 G of RAM, but the new HI-HIDE is
> still too slow to be used on big PIC18 projects. I tried
> different versions when they were released, but abandon them
> eventually. When the design concept was wrong from the
> beginning, the product will never be right.
>
> The main reason I am still using the old-style HI-TIDE, is
> because I can split one C-file in many sub windows, so it can
> be changed at 5-6 different places for one C-file at the same
> time, and in the mean time, I can still keep an eye on other
> C-files without any issue, the new HI-TIDE just don't have
> this capability.
>
> Though the new HI-TIDE claimed to be very powerful (I don't
> understand if it is so not-user friendly for programmers, who
> is going to use it even if it is free now.), It lost many of
> the important function for programmers (Edit code then
> compile the file, and that is it.) but pretty.
>
> The new HI-TIDE is a pretty useless toolset I have ever used.
>  
> Funny N.
> Au Group Electronics, New Bedford, MA,
> http://www.AuElectronics.selfip.com
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Peter Riachi <priachi@...>
> To: piclist@...
> Sent: Sunday, April 6, 2008 9:09:01 PM
> Subject: [AD] NEW: HI-TECH CR PRO for the PIC10/12/16 MCU
> Family - Now Available
>
> HI-TECH Software is very pleased to announce the release of
> this new PRO ANSI C compiler, that comes with Omniscient Code
> Generation(tm), supporting the PIC10/12/16 MCU Family.
>  
> For more details please visit the product forum post at
>

www.htsoft.com/forum/all/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/49102/an/0/page/0#P

> ost49102.
>
> Many thanks,
>
> Peter Riachi
> Chief Operating Officer, HI-TECH Software
>
> --
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> your membership options at
> http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist
>
>
>
>
>
>
>      
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> Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost.  
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[Bob Blick-4]

> > [mailto:piclist-bounces@...] On Behalf Of Funny NYPD
> > Sent: Monday, 7 April 2008 1:29 PM
> > To: Microcontroller discussion list - Public.
> > Subject: Re: [AD] NEW: HI-TECH CR PRO for the PIC10/12/16 MCU
> > Family - NowAvailable
> >
> > "Normally US$3,495.00 your special price is US$3,195.00"
> >
> > Wow, I think Hi-Tech starts to rob money now.

When they lost me as a customer they had to raise prices :)

Business model:
1. Make a great product and get market share.
2. Profit.
3. Introduce a new security model that pisses off your customers.
4. Raise prices.
5. Lose market share.
6. ???

I may have left out a few steps(step 2.5: new management), but I think
that basically captures the arc.

Cheerful regards,

Bob

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[Michael Rigby-Jones]

> -----Original Message-----
> From: piclist-bounces@... [mailto:piclist-bounces@...] On
Behalf
> Of Funny NYPD
> Sent: 07 April 2008 04:29
> To: Microcontroller discussion list - Public.
> Subject: Re: [AD] NEW: HI-TECH CR PRO for the PIC10/12/16 MCU Family -
> NowAvailable
>
> "Normally US$3,495.00 your special price is US$3,195.00"
>
> Wow, I think Hi-Tech starts to rob money now.

Have you actually priced up a commercial compiler from the likes of IAR
or Keil recently?  I think you'll find the HiTech prices are
significantly lower.

Regards

Mike

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[Michael Rigby-Jones]

> -----Original Message-----
> From: piclist-bounces@... [mailto:piclist-bounces@...] On
Behalf

> Of Bob Blick
> Sent: 07 April 2008 17:00
> To: Microcontroller discussion list - Public.
> Subject: RE: [AD] NEW: HI-TECH CR PRO for the PIC10/12/16 MCU Family -
> NowAvailable
>
> > > [mailto:piclist-bounces@...] On Behalf Of Funny NYPD
> > > Sent: Monday, 7 April 2008 1:29 PM
> > > To: Microcontroller discussion list - Public.
> > > Subject: Re: [AD] NEW: HI-TECH CR PRO for the PIC10/12/16 MCU
> > > Family - NowAvailable
> > >
> > > "Normally US$3,495.00 your special price is US$3,195.00"
> > >
> > > Wow, I think Hi-Tech starts to rob money now.
>
> When they lost me as a customer they had to raise prices :)
>
> Business model:
> 1. Make a great product and get market share.
> 2. Profit.
> 3. Introduce a new security model that pisses off your customers.
> 4. Raise prices.
> 5. Lose market share.
> 6. ???
>
> I may have left out a few steps(step 2.5: new management), but I think
> that basically captures the arc.
>

I totally agree that security issues cause huge frustration, trying to
transfer a Keil compiler licence from an ex-employee to myself took
several days and numerous emails because the online system simply
wouldn't work for me.  

At least HiTech don't have a dongle though, since my PC was replaced
with a newer model I can no longer run an oldish IAR compiler due to
lack of a parallel port.  A cheap add-on PCI parallel card also wouldn't
work so I have to have a second old PC hanging around just to run this
compiler when needed.

Cheers

Mike

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[Funny N.]

Someone should also remember the freescale Codexxxx.
Just kinding.
 
Funny N.
Au Group Electronics, New Bedford, MA, http://www.AuElectronics.selfip.com

----- Original Message ----
From: Michael Rigby-Jones <Michael.Rigby-Jones@...>
To: Microcontroller discussion list - Public. <piclist@...>
Sent: Monday, April 7, 2008 12:01:47 PM
Subject: RE: [AD] NEW: HI-TECH CR PRO for the PIC10/12/16 MCU Family - NowAvailable



> -----Original Message-----
> From: piclist-bounces@... [mailto:piclist-bounces@...] On
Behalf
> Of Funny NYPD
> Sent: 07 April 2008 04:29
> To: Microcontroller discussion list - Public.
> Subject: Re: [AD] NEW: HI-TECH CR PRO for the PIC10/12/16 MCU Family -
> NowAvailable
>
> "Normally US$3,495.00 your special price is US$3,195.00"
>
> Wow, I think Hi-Tech starts to rob money now.

Have you actually priced up a commercial compiler from the likes of IAR
or Keil recently?  I think you'll find the HiTech prices are
significantly lower.

Regards

Mike

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[Matt Pobursky-2]

On Mon, 7 Apr 2008 17:01:47 +0100, Michael Rigby-Jones wrote:

>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: piclist-bounces@... [mailto:piclist-bounces@...] On
>>
> Behalf
>> Of Funny NYPD
>> Sent: 07 April 2008 04:29
>> To: Microcontroller discussion list - Public.
>> Subject: Re: [AD] NEW: HI-TECH CR PRO for the PIC10/12/16 MCU Family -
>> NowAvailable
>>
>> "Normally US$3,495.00 your special price is US$3,195.00"
>>
>> Wow, I think Hi-Tech starts to rob money now.
>>
> Have you actually priced up a commercial compiler from the likes of IAR
> or Keil recently?  I think you'll find the HiTech prices are
> significantly lower.

I certainly have. Keil and IAR are two of the *least* impressive
development tool companies to me in terms of "value" for the customer.
Their tools are good quality but their attitude towards customers is
lacking in my opinion (price, dongles, product activation, etc.).

If you'd like to see what I think a good development tool company looks
like, check out Rowley Associates.

http://www.rowley.co.uk/

They have reasonable pricing on three levels: Student, personal (non-
commercial) and professional. Their professional license is reasonably
priced (about $1500 for the equivalent Keil or IAR toolsets) and they have
reasonable licensing terms, much like the old Borland license (1 user on
any one computer at a time).

If you happen to do ARM, MSP430 or AVR work I highly recommend them -- we
use their ARM and AVR tools and will likely switch to their MSP430 tools
sometime in the future. . Phenomenally good integration between IDE,
debugger and project management. It just works. Linux as well as Windows
too, a plus. Excellent technical support, very fast and knowledgeable.

No PIC support and likely never will be. To paraphrase their response when
asked about PIC support, "We won't touch that insane architecture". Can't
say as I blame them, PIC tools are tough road to go down (especially for
ANSI compatibility and debugging) as shown by the existing PIC tools. My
PIC designs are getting fewer and fewer. I'm not sure if this is a good
thing or not.

Matt Pobursky
Maximum Performance Systems

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[Xiaofan Chen]

On Tue, Apr 8, 2008 at 4:43 AM, Matt Pobursky <piclist@...> wrote:

> >> Wow, I think Hi-Tech starts to rob money now.
> >>
> > Have you actually priced up a commercial compiler from the likes of IAR
> > or Keil recently?  I think you'll find the HiTech prices are
> > significantly lower.
>
> I certainly have. Keil and IAR are two of the *least* impressive
> development tool companies to me in terms of "value" for the customer.
> Their tools are good quality but their attitude towards customers is
> lacking in my opinion (price, dongles, product activation, etc.).

However Keil and IAR are pretty much the standard for ARM MCU
development. Just like GreenHills and ColdWarrior for higher-end
68K/ColdFire. Keil is pretty much dominate in the 8051 world. So
we have to use Keil 51 and IAR ARM compiler for work.

> If you'd like to see what I think a good development tool company looks
> like, check out Rowley Associates.
>
> http://www.rowley.co.uk/
>
> They have reasonable pricing on three levels: Student, personal (non-
> commercial) and professional. Their professional license is reasonably
> priced (about $1500 for the equivalent Keil or IAR toolsets) and they have
> reasonable licensing terms, much like the old Borland license (1 user on
> any one computer at a time).
>

Compare to Keil and IAR, they are good. Compare to Microchip's
pricing model for C18/C30/C32, then they can not fight at all. Microchip's
compiler is cheap, one time pay only, free upgrade for life, no dongle,
no web activation.

> No PIC support and likely never will be. To paraphrase their response when
> asked about PIC support, "We won't touch that insane architecture". Can't
> say as I blame them, PIC tools are tough road to go down (especially for
> ANSI compatibility and debugging) as shown by the existing PIC tools. My
> PIC designs are getting fewer and fewer. I'm not sure if this is a good
> thing or not.

That is kind of sour grape. HiTech/CCS dominate the compiler market
for PIC12/16. Microchip C18/C30/C32 seem to dominate player and its
pricing model is the best in class (cheap, one time pay only, free
upgrade for life, no dongle, no web activation). HiTech's PICC18 seems
to have some market share as well. So it is not Rowley do not want
to touch PIC marker, they have no chance to success. You can say
the old PIC an insane architecture (even that does not prevent HiTech
and IAR from providing a decent compiler). But PIC18 is already much
better and PIC24/dsPIC33 and PIC32 are nice architecture.
are totally different.,

Xiaofan
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[Funny N.]

ColdWarrior is much better than codeXXXX.
 
Funny N.
Au Group Electronics, New Bedford, MA, http://www.AuElectronics.selfip.com

----- Original Message ----
From: Xiaofan Chen <xiaofanc@...>
To: Microcontroller discussion list - Public. <piclist@...>
Sent: Monday, April 7, 2008 7:44:00 PM
Subject: Re: [AD] NEW: HI-TECH CR PRO for the PIC10/12/16 MCU Family - NowAvailable

On Tue, Apr 8, 2008 at 4:43 AM, Matt Pobursky <piclist@...> wrote:

> >> Wow, I think Hi-Tech starts to rob money now.
> >>
> > Have you actually priced up a commercial compiler from the likes of IAR
> > or Keil recently?  I think you'll find the HiTech prices are
> > significantly lower.
>
> I certainly have. Keil and IAR are two of the *least* impressive
> development tool companies to me in terms of "value" for the customer.
> Their tools are good quality but their attitude towards customers is
> lacking in my opinion (price, dongles, product activation, etc.).

However Keil and IAR are pretty much the standard for ARM MCU
development. Just like GreenHills and ColdWarrior for higher-end
68K/ColdFire. Keil is pretty much dominate in the 8051 world. So
we have to use Keil 51 and IAR ARM compiler for work.

> If you'd like to see what I think a good development tool company looks
> like, check out Rowley Associates.
>
> http://www.rowley.co.uk/
>
> They have reasonable pricing on three levels: Student, personal (non-
> commercial) and professional. Their professional license is reasonably
> priced (about $1500 for the equivalent Keil or IAR toolsets) and they have
> reasonable licensing terms, much like the old Borland license (1 user on
> any one computer at a time).
>

Compare to Keil and IAR, they are good. Compare to Microchip's
pricing model for C18/C30/C32, then they can not fight at all. Microchip's
compiler is cheap, one time pay only, free upgrade for life, no dongle,
no web activation.

> No PIC support and likely never will be. To paraphrase their response when
> asked about PIC support, "We won't touch that insane architecture". Can't
> say as I blame them, PIC tools are tough road to go down (especially for
> ANSI compatibility and debugging) as shown by the existing PIC tools. My
> PIC designs are getting fewer and fewer. I'm not sure if this is a good
> thing or not.

That is kind of sour grape. HiTech/CCS dominate the compiler market
for PIC12/16. Microchip C18/C30/C32 seem to dominate player and its
pricing model is the best in class (cheap, one time pay only, free
upgrade for life, no dongle, no web activation). HiTech's PICC18 seems
to have some market share as well. So it is not Rowley do not want
to touch PIC marker, they have no chance to success. You can say
the old PIC an insane architecture (even that does not prevent HiTech
and IAR from providing a decent compiler). But PIC18 is already much
better and PIC24/dsPIC33 and PIC32 are nice architecture.
are totally different.,

Xiaofan
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      ____________________________________________________________________________________
You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost.  
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[Mauricio Giovagnini]

Bob Blick escribió:

> Business model:
> 1. Make a great product and get market share.
> 2. Profit.
> 3. Introduce a new security model that pisses off your customers.
> 4. Raise prices.
> 5. Lose market share.
> 6. ???
>

May be 6 is... an open source replacement? :)




------------------------------
Mauricio Giovagnini (Maunix)
www.maunix.com.ar
Cordoba, Arg.
LinkedIn Profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/mgiovagnini
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[ankostis ()]

Funny N. wrote:

[..]
The main reason I am still using the old-style HI-TIDE, is because I can split one C-file in many sub windows, so it can be changed at 5-6 different places for one C-file at the same time, and in the mean time, I can still keep an eye on other C-files without any issue, the new HI-TIDE just don't have this capability.
[..]
The new HI-TIDE is a pretty useless toolset I have ever used.
 
Funny N.
Au Group Electronics, New Bedford, MA, http://www.AuElectronics.selfip.com

Be patient to explore and learn the full power of this Eclipse-based HI-TIDE,
but i suggest that you have installed 1 gig of RAM (or more).

Concerning split-view, eclipse do supports this out of the box, but not like VS,
see:
http://brajeshwar.com/2005/split-view-in-eclipse/

Regards,
  Kostis

[Funny N.]

Eclipse-based HI-TIDE is colorful, beautiful, pretending to do everything, slow, waste memory, waste energy, generate more CO2 to the environment, and useless.

 Funny N.
Au Group Electronics, New Bedford, MA, http://www.AuElectronics.com



----- Original Message ----
From: ankostis <ankostis@...>
To: piclist@...
Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2008 6:03:35 AM
Subject: Re: [AD] NEW: HI-TECH CR PRO for the PIC10/12/16 MCU Family - Now Available



Funny N. wrote:

> [..]
> The main reason I am still using the old-style HI-TIDE, is because I can
> split one C-file in many sub windows, so it can be changed at 5-6
> different places for one C-file at the same time, and in the mean time, I
> can still keep an eye on other C-files without any issue, the new HI-TIDE
> just don't have this capability.
> [..]
> The new HI-TIDE is a pretty useless toolset I have ever used.
>  
> Funny N.
> Au Group Electronics, New Bedford, MA, http://www.AuElectronics.selfip.com
>

Be patient to explore and learn the full power of this Eclipse-based
HI-TIDE,
but i suggest that you have installed 1 gig of RAM (or more).

Concerning split-view, eclipse do supports this out of the box, but not like
VS,
see:
http://brajeshwar.com/2005/split-view-in-eclipse/

Regards,
  Kostis
--
View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/NEW%3A-HI-TECH-CR-PRO-for-the-PIC10-12-16-MCU-Family---Now-Available-tp16532077p18446150.html
Sent from the PIC - [AD] mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

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