Microcontrollers USB-Stick
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Microcontrollers USB-Stick
by Shawn Tan Ser Ngiap
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Hi,
Just saw this and was wondering, why not PICs? http://dev.emcelettronica.com/microcontrollers-usb-stick-tool -- with metta, Shawn Tan Aeste Works (M) Sdn Bhd - Engineering Elegance http://www.aeste.net -- http://www.piclist.com PIC/SX FAQ & list archive View/change your membership options at http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist |
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Re: Microcontrollers USB-Stick
by Xiaofan Chen
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On Wed, May 7, 2008 at 4:45 AM, Shawn Tan <shawn.tan@...> wrote:
> Hi, > > Just saw this and was wondering, why not PICs? > > http://dev.emcelettronica.com/microcontrollers-usb-stick-tool Actually you can use PICkit 2 as a USB development tools if you want. http://forum.microchip.com/tm.aspx?m=267849 A good example from Mark Rages: http://vivara.net/blog/?p=55 Xiaofan -- http://www.piclist.com PIC/SX FAQ & list archive View/change your membership options at http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist |
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Re: Microcontrollers USB-Stick
by Xiaofan Chen
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On Wed, May 7, 2008 at 5:08 AM, Funny NYPD <funnynypd@...> wrote:
> Because Microchip is weak on USB. > After a little research, you will find Microchip USB solution is so hard to > use comparing with its competitors. I will say that the situation has changed and now it is getting much better now. Microchip is now much stronger than last time in its USB offerings. Ok it can not beat big USB related companies like NXP and Cypress. It can not even beat Atmel in this aspect. But it is now very popular, among small customers, among hobbyists. Actually they now boast more than tens of thousands of customers for USB PICs. Advantage for hobbyists: free C18 student version compiler, free samples, 28/40 pin DIP packages, active community. USB PIC links: http://forum.microchip.com/tm.aspx?m=123533 Even Jan Axelson uses PIC in all her USB related books (USB Complete, USB Mass Storage and Serial Port Complete). http://www.lvr.com Xiaofan (an USB PIC enthusiast) http://mcuee.blogspot.com -- http://www.piclist.com PIC/SX FAQ & list archive View/change your membership options at http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist |
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Re: Microcontrollers USB-Stick
by Marcel Birthelmer
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Hi Funny et al,
I think you're getting a bit confused - the MSP430, for instance, does not support USB. The development board you linked to is basically a USB-serial bridge (plus some proprietary debugging protocol) plus a MSP430 plus a wireless chip. But the MSP430 itself is not USB-enabled. So it would definitely be feasible to put some basic PIC onto a USB form factor board and connect it to the PC via a serial link, but I'm not sure what the benefit of this would be. Rgds, - Marcel On Tue, May 6, 2008 at 7:04 PM, Funny NYPD <funnynypd@...> wrote: > I really hope that will be true. Microchip might made a little progress in > recent months. But still too far away from its competitors. Too far away, > ...... > > There is still too many work for the end user to use it USB solution. Most > of engineer/designer might just want a turn-key USB solution which Microchip > still cannot provide. Vista has been out for many years, Microchip USB > products/software stack still got tons of issues with Vista. > > I am a Microchip PIC user, just don't see the high possibility to use its > USB products so easily very soon. > > Funny N. > Au Group Electronics, New Bedford, MA, http://www.AuElectronics.com > http://www.piclist.com PIC/SX FAQ & list archive View/change your membership options at http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist |
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Re: Microcontrollers USB-Stick
by Xiaofan Chen
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On 5/7/08, Funny NYPD <funnynypd@...> wrote:
> Vista has been out for many years, Microchip USB products/software > stack still got tons of issues with Vista. That is wrong and outdated info. USB stack V1.3 and V2.1 support Vista 32bit and 64bit. Xiaofan -- http://www.piclist.com PIC/SX FAQ & list archive View/change your membership options at http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist |
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Re: Microcontrollers USB-Stick
by William "Chops" Westfield
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On May 6, 2008, at 4:54 PM, Xiaofan Chen wrote: > Ok it can not beat big USB related companies like NXP and Cypress. In general, the "USB sticks" being discussed do NOT use the native USB capabilities of the CPU being "demonstrated"; there's an extra chip on there that does the USB-to-jtag or USB-to-DebugWire or USB-to- ICP conversion. Sometimes the USB chip isn't even in the same CPU family as the "eval" chip, or isn't a CPU. The TI "EZ430-f2013", which was one of the early examples in this genre, uses one of TI's stand-alone USB/serial for the USB interface, a large 64-pin CPU for the control functions, and the device the user gets to play with is that 14-pin 430f2013... And I think my Luminary thing that's close actually uses an FTDI USB chip. So the whole "USB stick" format thing isn't at all dependent on the manufacturer have "good", or even "any" USB support. Note that the PIC32 eval board is pretty close to this sort of thing. I find the format a mixed blessing. Too many vendors don't give you enough access to the chip being evaluated (IIRC, the original silabs "toolstick" had one LED and was supposed only to demonstrate the SW tools, for example. They've gotten better since then!) And the direct-to-USB format makes support on non-windows platforms unlikely; there's usually too much to reverse engineer. But they're really cute, too. BillW -- http://www.piclist.com PIC/SX FAQ & list archive View/change your membership options at http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist |
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Re: Microcontrollers USB-Stick
by Shawn Tan Ser Ngiap
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On Wednesday 07 May 2008 09:46:04 William "Chops" Westfield wrote:
> that 14-pin 430f2013... And I think my Luminary thing that's close > actually uses an FTDI USB chip. So the whole "USB stick" format > thing isn't at all dependent on the manufacturer have "good", or even > "any" USB support. Talking about FTDI, I've recently noticed that they're selling FPGA boards with their FTDI USB chips on it, used for programming and user application. Unfortunately, I think that they're a tad expensive. For a little extra, you could get a full blown FPGA starter kit. http://www.ftdichip.com/Products/EvaluationKits/FPGA.htm -- with metta, Shawn Tan Aeste Works (M) Sdn Bhd - Engineering Elegance http://www.aeste.net -- http://www.piclist.com PIC/SX FAQ & list archive View/change your membership options at http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist |
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Re: Microcontrollers USB-Stick
by Xiaofan Chen
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On 5/7/08, William Chops Westfield <westfw@...> wrote:
> > On May 6, 2008, at 4:54 PM, Xiaofan Chen wrote: > > Ok it can not beat big USB related companies like NXP and Cypress. > > In general, the "USB sticks" being discussed do NOT use the native > USB capabilities of the CPU being "demonstrated"; there's an extra > chip on there that does the USB-to-jtag or USB-to-DebugWire or USB-to- > ICP conversion. Sometimes the USB chip isn't even in the same CPU > family as the "eval" chip, or isn't a CPU. The TI "EZ430-f2013", > which was one of the early examples in this genre, uses one of TI's > stand-alone USB/serial for the USB interface, a large 64-pin CPU for > the control functions, and the device the user gets to play with is > that 14-pin 430f2013... And I think my Luminary thing that's close > actually uses an FTDI USB chip. So the whole "USB stick" format > thing isn't at all dependent on the manufacturer have "good", or even > "any" USB support. Yes this is correct. I have an Infineon U-Light Stick with uses an Silabs CP2101 as the debugger interface. Other Infineon Starter Kits (for 8051 or 80166) also use similar USB to serial converters. > Note that the PIC32 eval board is pretty close to this sort of thing. I do not have the board as I find it too limited. I opted to use PIMs with the Explorer 16 board which I bought two years ago but had not really touched until now. > I find the format a mixed blessing. Too many vendors don't give you > enough access to the chip being evaluated (IIRC, the original silabs > "toolstick" had one LED and was supposed only to demonstrate the SW > tools, for example. They've gotten better since then!) And the > direct-to-USB format makes support on non-windows platforms unlikely; > there's usually too much to reverse engineer. Hmm, I think the TI USB serial bridge is supported under Linux. And I think MSPGCC supports it (spi-by-wire or JTAG) under Linux with a close source binary library. As for Mac OS X, no idea. There are also some efforts on reverse-engineering Silabs's C2/JTAG debug interface. > But they're really cute, too. PICkit 2 is cute as well. With the bootloader, it is actually a better evaluation platform than the other USB sticks. Xiaofan -- http://www.piclist.com PIC/SX FAQ & list archive View/change your membership options at http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist |
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Re: Microcontrollers USB-Stick
by Olin Lathrop
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Funny NYPD wrote:
> I am a Microchip PIC user, just don't see the high possibility to use > its USB products so easily very soon. Then take a look at http://www.embedinc.com/pic/usb.htm. This gives you a complete end to end bi-directional byte stream between the app on the host and the application firmware on the PIC. You fill in your device information in a include file, and all the enumeration is handled for you. After that, the PIC application calls simple PUT and GET routines to send and receive single bytes. Under the hood it uses hardware ping-pong buffering with triple software buffers, but you don't need to know any of that to make your app work. Pipe 0 is reserved for enumeration and private communication with the custom driver, and pipe 1 is totally for the application. The U1EX firmware is a example on top of the USB routines. It takes about 11% of the program memory of a 18F2550, with the USB routines taking only 8%. The USB routines don't use interrupts so that no addtional interrupt latency is imposed on the app. On the host side, there is a custom kernel mode driver and a example library and application. Each device can be given a unique name, which is stored in the PIC EEPROM. The driver uses a special protocol over pipe 0 to query the name of all devices of that VID/PID connected to the system, and allows applications to enumerate them and connect to a particular one. The example application provides a command line interface on the host to querying and setting the device name and turning a LED on and off. The USBProg firmware and host software provide a more complicated example of using the USB framework. We have used this framework for several projects, including our USBProg PIC programmer. We are also planning on coming out with a USB development board (http://www.embedinc.com/products/ready02) to make development of PIC usb devices really easy. ******************************************************************** Embed Inc, Littleton Massachusetts, http://www.embedinc.com/products (978) 742-9014. Gold level PIC consultants since 2000. -- http://www.piclist.com PIC/SX FAQ & list archive View/change your membership options at http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist |
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Re: Microcontrollers USB-Stick
by Mark Rages
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On Wed, May 7, 2008 at 3:46 AM, William Chops Westfield <westfw@...> wrote:
> And the > direct-to-USB format makes support on non-windows platforms unlikely; > there's usually too much to reverse engineer. > > But they're really cute, too. > > BillW > The MSP430 sticks are supported by mspgcc. (debugger access uses a closed-source DLL, and (therefore?) it is a bear to install.) Regards, Mark markrages@gmail -- Mark Rages, Engineer Midwest Telecine LLC markrages@... -- http://www.piclist.com PIC/SX FAQ & list archive View/change your membership options at http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist |
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