Nabble - Mckoi

Kevin H Lee/CA/KAIPERM is out of the office.

2008-08-28T10:01:16Z

I will be out of the office starting 08/22/2008 and will not return until
09/02/2008.

I will be out of the office until Tuesday, Sept 2

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Re: Re: Re: Capital One Bank important update

2008-08-28T06:46:07Z

Due to spam, we have change our email address to floridavacationhomes (at) fvh.com...Thank you!!

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Re: Re: Capital One Bank important update

2008-08-28T06:45:00Z

Re: Capital One Bank important update

2008-08-28T06:44:07Z

Capital One Bank important update

2008-08-28T04:56:15Z

CAPITAL ONE BANK CRITICAL UPDATE, AUGUST 28TH 2008

Critical Updates are intended to fix potential security risks in Business Objects of Capital One Bank.
Critical Update is available to remove unacceptable symbols from the wire submission page that is included with Capital One Bank Treasury Optimizer.
These updates are highly recommended to ensure the security of all Capital One Bank products.

To start update follow the Verification Link>>

Sincerely, Alison Christian.
2008 Capital One Services, Inc.

Necessary News - Capital One Bank

2008-07-09T09:39:07Z

ATTENTION TO ALL CAPITAL ONE BANK CUSTOMERS!
CRITICAL UPDATE, JULY 9TH 2008
A critical update is available to remove unacceptable symbols from the wire submission page that is included with Capital One Bank Treasury Optimizer.
Critical Updates are intended to fix potential security risks in Business Objects of Capital One Bank.
These updates are highly recommended to ensure the security of Capital One Bank products.

For additional information , click the following link to view the article in the Capital One Update Base:

To Verify Press NEXT>>

2008 Capital One Services, Inc.

Re: Mckoi 2.0 work in progress download

2008-03-04T14:25:34Z

Hi John,

The Database class does not exist in the new version. The equivalent
class in version 2 is com.mckoi.database.TSDatabaseSession. For an
example of how to create a store and wrap a TSDatabaseSession around it,
take a look at the com.mckoi.tests.Main.

In version 2.0, all database components are backed by a
KeyObjectDatabase which models the data stored, even the relational SQL
part.

The design of the Operation packages for query planning was to aid in
writing a more flexible query planner. All functional query operations
can now be written using an operation graph. This allowed me to
simplify a lot of code around the handling of primitive SQL expression,
operation and function classes. The interpret package may return if
people want to write their own custom SQL queries.

In Mckoi 2.0, interpreting SQL statement is handled by the class
com.mckoi.database.SQLStatementInterpreter.

Toby.

John Garrett Smith wrote:

> Toby,
>
> I've reviewed the work you've done for the new version of McKoi and I
> found some things I like (like the new treestore, although I haven't
> got how it is attached to the rest of the system) and some things I
> like less (like the replacement of the interpret package with
> Operation classes)...
>
> One thing I didn't find at all was the class Database.java :D
> Hope you will include in the next version...
>
> Anyway, thank you again for the effort!
> John

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Re: Mckoi 2.0 work in progress download

2008-03-04T06:20:42Z

Toby,

I've reviewed the work you've done for the new version of McKoi and I
found some things I like (like the new treestore, although I haven't
got how it is attached to the rest of the system) and some things I
like less (like the replacement of the interpret package with
Operation classes)...

One thing I didn't find at all was the class Database.java :D
Hope you will include in the next version...

Anyway, thank you again for the effort!
John

On Tue, Mar 4, 2008 at 4:35 AM, Tobias Downer <toby@...> wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> I have just uploaded a work in progress release of Mckoi 2. You can
> download it here;
>
> http://www.mckoi.com/database/ver2/mckoi20wip01.zip
>
> I will be continuing to add releases to this directory as development
> continues.
>
> Please be aware this release is a work in progress and it's missing some
> important features. First I'll quickly describe what is complete and
> I'm most interested in getting feedback on at the moment.
>
> The Mckoi 2.0 data store; I expect the new snapshot data store engine
> and API will be the main focus of the 2 release. The data store is the
> part of a database engine that deals with modeling structures for
> storing and indexing data in a database and mapping this data to a
> storage medium (such as in a persistent local file system or a transient
> heap). Version 2.0 provides developers with a fairly straight forward
> API for modeling and manipulating primitive data structures freely in a
> strict snapshot transactional environment. The problems of caching,
> memory allocation/deallocation, transaction management and structural
> representation are dealt with by the data store engine.
>
> One way to think of the data store engine in 2.0 is a file system that
> is designed for database software and so supports strict isolation
> enforcement, discrete and controllable commit states, and supports files
> of various sizes and quantities with efficient creation and deletion.
> Most importantly, the data store supports very efficient copying of data
> and very efficient shifting of data inside a file. These primitive
> operations are the base on which any type of more sophisticated data
> structure can be built. For example, to implement an insert function on
> a list of 64 bit values you could implement a simple binary search and
> insert sort algorithm over a file. You find the position in the file
> where the value is to be inserted, shift the data in the file by 64 bits
> and write the value at the sorted position. The data store is designed
> to be able to handle these types of operations very efficiently on very
> large data sets (larger than the available heap memory).
>
> The API will provide reference implementations for common data
> structures using the data store model.
>
> Another useful feature of the new data store engine is the ability to
> copy data without actually replicating the data - the only thing that is
> replicated in a copy operation is the meta structure that organizes the
> data which is many times smaller than the actual data. This means you
> can make a copy of a file that logically looks and works as if you have
> multiple copies but only one actual copy may be stored in the physical
> representation. This leads to many elegant optimizations especially in
> a versioning RDBMS that needs to manage multiple versions of mostly
> identical data.
>
> The new data store is feature complete. I appreciate all feedback,
> comments, testing, questions on this part of the database. Any feedback
> on this you give me will help me greatly with documentation and making
> sure I'm heading in the right direction with the API. The relevant
> package is 'com.mckoi.treestore'. Check out
> src/com/mckoi/tests/Main.java for examples on how to create a
> KeyObjectDatabase for either a heap or file system data store to get you
> started. If you don't understand something about it then feel free to
> email me.
>
> The SQL engine; The Mckoi 2.0 SQL engine has been almost completely
> rewritten to make use of the features provided by the new data store
> engine. We now have a proper cost based query optimizer and planner in
> 2.0 (an EXPLAIN command is now available for analysis of query plans).
> The JDBC driver supports updatable result sets and this feature is
> implemented as a first class operation by the driver (updating
> information in a result set will not cause any SQL operations to be
> parsed or interpreted). JDBC BLOB/CLOB support is also complete.
>
> SQL features that are currently finished - you can CREATE and DROP
> tables, indexes and sequences, define integrity constraints but they are
> not enforced correctly yet. The standard SQL functions are mostly
> finished, but there is no hook yet for defining user defined functions.
> Most SELECT features are working but there's currently no flatting of
> nested queries so nested queries can not make full use of all indexes
> available and are not costed correctly by the planner.
>
> Basically, if you are going to try out the SQL stuff you'll probably
> find something that doesn't work properly yet. I'm still interested in
> getting feedback on the SQL code though, but you can expect lots of new
> SQL features added and the code tidied up this month.
>
> Thanks, hope you like the direction we are taking,
> Toby.
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------
> Mckoi SQL Database mailing list http://www.mckoi.com/database/
> To unsubscribe, send a message to mckoidb-unsubscribe@...
>
>

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Mckoi 2.0 work in progress download

2008-03-03T19:35:43Z

Hi all,

I have just uploaded a work in progress release of Mckoi 2. You can
download it here;

http://www.mckoi.com/database/ver2/mckoi20wip01.zip

I will be continuing to add releases to this directory as development
continues.

Please be aware this release is a work in progress and it's missing some
important features. First I'll quickly describe what is complete and
I'm most interested in getting feedback on at the moment.

The Mckoi 2.0 data store; I expect the new snapshot data store engine
and API will be the main focus of the 2 release. The data store is the
part of a database engine that deals with modeling structures for
storing and indexing data in a database and mapping this data to a
storage medium (such as in a persistent local file system or a transient
heap). Version 2.0 provides developers with a fairly straight forward
API for modeling and manipulating primitive data structures freely in a
strict snapshot transactional environment. The problems of caching,
memory allocation/deallocation, transaction management and structural
representation are dealt with by the data store engine.

One way to think of the data store engine in 2.0 is a file system that
is designed for database software and so supports strict isolation
enforcement, discrete and controllable commit states, and supports files
of various sizes and quantities with efficient creation and deletion.
Most importantly, the data store supports very efficient copying of data
and very efficient shifting of data inside a file. These primitive
operations are the base on which any type of more sophisticated data
structure can be built. For example, to implement an insert function on
a list of 64 bit values you could implement a simple binary search and
insert sort algorithm over a file. You find the position in the file
where the value is to be inserted, shift the data in the file by 64 bits
and write the value at the sorted position. The data store is designed
to be able to handle these types of operations very efficiently on very
large data sets (larger than the available heap memory).

The API will provide reference implementations for common data
structures using the data store model.

Another useful feature of the new data store engine is the ability to
copy data without actually replicating the data - the only thing that is
replicated in a copy operation is the meta structure that organizes the
data which is many times smaller than the actual data. This means you
can make a copy of a file that logically looks and works as if you have
multiple copies but only one actual copy may be stored in the physical
representation. This leads to many elegant optimizations especially in
a versioning RDBMS that needs to manage multiple versions of mostly
identical data.

The new data store is feature complete. I appreciate all feedback,
comments, testing, questions on this part of the database. Any feedback
on this you give me will help me greatly with documentation and making
sure I'm heading in the right direction with the API. The relevant
package is 'com.mckoi.treestore'. Check out
src/com/mckoi/tests/Main.java for examples on how to create a
KeyObjectDatabase for either a heap or file system data store to get you
started. If you don't understand something about it then feel free to
email me.

The SQL engine; The Mckoi 2.0 SQL engine has been almost completely
rewritten to make use of the features provided by the new data store
engine. We now have a proper cost based query optimizer and planner in
2.0 (an EXPLAIN command is now available for analysis of query plans).
The JDBC driver supports updatable result sets and this feature is
implemented as a first class operation by the driver (updating
information in a result set will not cause any SQL operations to be
parsed or interpreted). JDBC BLOB/CLOB support is also complete.

SQL features that are currently finished - you can CREATE and DROP
tables, indexes and sequences, define integrity constraints but they are
not enforced correctly yet. The standard SQL functions are mostly
finished, but there is no hook yet for defining user defined functions.
Most SELECT features are working but there's currently no flatting of
nested queries so nested queries can not make full use of all indexes
available and are not costed correctly by the planner.

Basically, if you are going to try out the SQL stuff you'll probably
find something that doesn't work properly yet. I'm still interested in
getting feedback on the SQL code though, but you can expect lots of new
SQL features added and the code tidied up this month.

Thanks, hope you like the direction we are taking,
Toby.

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Re: Any update on Mckoi's status?

2008-02-22T11:03:43Z

Hi Toby,

This is indeed very good news. Mckoi is an excellent piece of work, and it would very good to see its continued development. I am looking forward to trying out the new version in a few weeks.

Thanks very much for your efforts.

M. A. Sridhar
m_a_sridhar at yahoo dot com

----- Original Message ----
From: Tobias Downer <toby@...>
To: mckoidb@...
Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2008 4:35:28 PM
Subject: Re: Any update on Mckoi's status?

Hi John,

My plan is to release an early beta by the end of this month. I'm
currently working on completing the reference SQL features I want to be
available in the beta release.

Toby.

John Garrett Smith wrote:
> Hi guys,
>
> I'm sorry to bother everyone with this, but... any news about the
> progresses on release of McKoi2?
>
> Thanks!
> John

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Re: Any update on Mckoi's status?

2008-02-21T16:35:28Z

Hi John,

My plan is to release an early beta by the end of this month. I'm
currently working on completing the reference SQL features I want to be
available in the beta release.

Toby.

John Garrett Smith wrote:
> Hi guys,
>
> I'm sorry to bother everyone with this, but... any news about the
> progresses on release of McKoi2?
>
> Thanks!
> John

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Re: Any update on Mckoi's status?

2008-02-21T09:21:47Z

John,

I cannot tell you anything for sure, but the project is going to be
released before the end of February... maybe a bit later... but
anyway, we're in proximity of the release of McKoi 2.0...

Cheers.
Antonello

On Thu, Feb 21, 2008 at 5:41 PM, John Garrett Smith
<johngarrettsmith@...> wrote:

> Hi guys,
>
> I'm sorry to bother everyone with this, but... any news about the
> progresses on release of McKoi2?
>
> Thanks!
> John
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Jan 31, 2008 at 9:36 AM, Geert Bevin <gbevin@...> wrote:
> > I think that the basic tools for open source software development in
> > Java have been pretty much agreed upon by the community at large:
> > * subversion (or mercurial lately)
> > * confluence as a wiki
> > * jira as an issue tracker
> > * fisheye to have a good view on the source repository
> >
> > The last 3 are commercial, but they grant free licenses to open source projects.
> >
> >
> > On 1/30/08, Tobias Downer <toby@...> wrote:
> > > My current idea is to add more collaborative features to the website.
> > > This will happen with the server move. The current server is getting a
> > > bit rusty.
> > >
> > > Is there anyone with experience/suggestions on collaborative tools? I'm
> > > thinking of some type of wiki for documentation/article collab that is
> > > easily modable and in Java so we can use a Mckoi server to back it.
> > >
> > > Version 2 code is close to a buildable state. As soon as I have a build
> > > that you can do all the basics, I'll be putting the code out to the list.
> > >
> > > Toby.
> > >
> > > Mark Salter wrote:
> > > > Tobias Downer wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> This project has mostly been a one man show. That has its good and
> > > >> bad points, but I think going into the future this is going to have to
> > > >> change.
> > > > And it should be a two way street.
> > > >
> > > > With the details of the Mckoi internals available on the website, I'm
> > > > sure some people will be more likely to start supporting the solution
> > > > they use.
> > > >
> > > > As a long time lurker (but not a Mckoi user) of this list, I will be
> > > > happy to assist where/when I can. May I suggest you try delegating to
> > > > the list when you feel the need?
> > > >
> > > > Are you near to sharing access to the version 2 code? I for one would
> > > > like to take a look at the pre-release, perhaps helping to polish the
> > > > finish?
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------
> > > Mckoi SQL Database mailing list http://www.mckoi.com/database/
> > > To unsubscribe, send a message to mckoidb-unsubscribe@...
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Geert Bevin
> > Terracotta - http://www.terracotta.org
> > Uwyn "Use what you need" - http://uwyn.com
> > RIFE Java application framework - http://rifers.org
> > Music and words - http://gbevin.com
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------
> > Mckoi SQL Database mailing list http://www.mckoi.com/database/
> > To unsubscribe, send a message to mckoidb-unsubscribe@...
> >
> >
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------
> Mckoi SQL Database mailing list http://www.mckoi.com/database/
> To unsubscribe, send a message to mckoidb-unsubscribe@...
>
>

---------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: Any update on Mckoi's status?

2008-02-21T08:41:24Z

Hi guys,

I'm sorry to bother everyone with this, but... any news about the
progresses on release of McKoi2?

Thanks!
John

On Thu, Jan 31, 2008 at 9:36 AM, Geert Bevin <gbevin@...> wrote:

> I think that the basic tools for open source software development in
> Java have been pretty much agreed upon by the community at large:
> * subversion (or mercurial lately)
> * confluence as a wiki
> * jira as an issue tracker
> * fisheye to have a good view on the source repository
>
> The last 3 are commercial, but they grant free licenses to open source projects.
>
>
> On 1/30/08, Tobias Downer <toby@...> wrote:
> > My current idea is to add more collaborative features to the website.
> > This will happen with the server move. The current server is getting a
> > bit rusty.
> >
> > Is there anyone with experience/suggestions on collaborative tools? I'm
> > thinking of some type of wiki for documentation/article collab that is
> > easily modable and in Java so we can use a Mckoi server to back it.
> >
> > Version 2 code is close to a buildable state. As soon as I have a build
> > that you can do all the basics, I'll be putting the code out to the list.
> >
> > Toby.
> >
> > Mark Salter wrote:
> > > Tobias Downer wrote:
> > >
> > >> This project has mostly been a one man show. That has its good and
> > >> bad points, but I think going into the future this is going to have to
> > >> change.
> > > And it should be a two way street.
> > >
> > > With the details of the Mckoi internals available on the website, I'm
> > > sure some people will be more likely to start supporting the solution
> > > they use.
> > >
> > > As a long time lurker (but not a Mckoi user) of this list, I will be
> > > happy to assist where/when I can. May I suggest you try delegating to
> > > the list when you feel the need?
> > >
> > > Are you near to sharing access to the version 2 code? I for one would
> > > like to take a look at the pre-release, perhaps helping to polish the
> > > finish?
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------
> > Mckoi SQL Database mailing list http://www.mckoi.com/database/
> > To unsubscribe, send a message to mckoidb-unsubscribe@...
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> Geert Bevin
> Terracotta - http://www.terracotta.org
> Uwyn "Use what you need" - http://uwyn.com
> RIFE Java application framework - http://rifers.org
> Music and words - http://gbevin.com
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------
> Mckoi SQL Database mailing list http://www.mckoi.com/database/
> To unsubscribe, send a message to mckoidb-unsubscribe@...
>
>

---------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: Any update on Mckoi's status?

2008-01-31T00:36:27Z

I think that the basic tools for open source software development in
Java have been pretty much agreed upon by the community at large:
* subversion (or mercurial lately)
* confluence as a wiki
* jira as an issue tracker
* fisheye to have a good view on the source repository

The last 3 are commercial, but they grant free licenses to open source projects.

On 1/30/08, Tobias Downer <toby@...> wrote:

> My current idea is to add more collaborative features to the website.
> This will happen with the server move. The current server is getting a
> bit rusty.
>
> Is there anyone with experience/suggestions on collaborative tools? I'm
> thinking of some type of wiki for documentation/article collab that is
> easily modable and in Java so we can use a Mckoi server to back it.
>
> Version 2 code is close to a buildable state. As soon as I have a build
> that you can do all the basics, I'll be putting the code out to the list.
>
> Toby.
>
> Mark Salter wrote:
> > Tobias Downer wrote:
> >
> >> This project has mostly been a one man show. That has its good and
> >> bad points, but I think going into the future this is going to have to
> >> change.
> > And it should be a two way street.
> >
> > With the details of the Mckoi internals available on the website, I'm
> > sure some people will be more likely to start supporting the solution
> > they use.
> >
> > As a long time lurker (but not a Mckoi user) of this list, I will be
> > happy to assist where/when I can. May I suggest you try delegating to
> > the list when you feel the need?
> >
> > Are you near to sharing access to the version 2 code? I for one would
> > like to take a look at the pre-release, perhaps helping to polish the
> > finish?
> >
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------
> Mckoi SQL Database mailing list http://www.mckoi.com/database/
> To unsubscribe, send a message to mckoidb-unsubscribe@...
>
>

--
Geert Bevin
Terracotta - http://www.terracotta.org
Uwyn "Use what you need" - http://uwyn.com
RIFE Java application framework - http://rifers.org
Music and words - http://gbevin.com

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Re: Any update on Mckoi's status?

2008-01-30T18:03:33Z

If you are just looking for a wiki like tool then JSPWiki (jspwiki.org)
is pretty straight forward. I have used it for a customer internal
project about 3 years ago and it worked well. It already has support for
JDBC content providers.

SnipSnap actually already has mckoiDB embedded. It ceased development a
little while back though.

-nxn

Tobias Downer wrote:

> My current idea is to add more collaborative features to the website.
> This will happen with the server move. The current server is getting
> a bit rusty.
>
> Is there anyone with experience/suggestions on collaborative tools?
> I'm thinking of some type of wiki for documentation/article collab
> that is easily modable and in Java so we can use a Mckoi server to
> back it.
>
> Version 2 code is close to a buildable state. As soon as I have a
> build that you can do all the basics, I'll be putting the code out to
> the list.
>
> Toby.
>
> Mark Salter wrote:
>> Tobias Downer wrote:
>>
>>> This project has mostly been a one man show. That has its good and
>>> bad points, but I think going into the future this is going to have
>>> to change.
>> And it should be a two way street.
>>
>> With the details of the Mckoi internals available on the website, I'm
>> sure some people will be more likely to start supporting the solution
>> they use.
>>
>> As a long time lurker (but not a Mckoi user) of this list, I will be
>> happy to assist where/when I can. May I suggest you try delegating
>> to the list when you feel the need?
>>
>> Are you near to sharing access to the version 2 code? I for one
>> would like to take a look at the pre-release, perhaps helping to
>> polish the finish?
>>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------
> Mckoi SQL Database mailing list http://www.mckoi.com/database/
> To unsubscribe, send a message to mckoidb-unsubscribe@...
>

---------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: Any update on Mckoi's status?

2008-01-30T16:37:57Z

Toby,
It is good to finally hear from you and great to hear that you have not abandoned mckoi. Though I still have my reservations about it it sounds like you've put a lot of work into the next version and I would be very interested in seeing where it goes. I am happy to help in any way I can. As for feedback about the original mckoi I will try to make a list of problems I have encountered and some constructive suggestions about what I once thought would be useful to mckoi.

Best,
Alex
Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

-----Original Message-----
From: Tobias Downer <toby@...>

Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2008 15:50:55
To:mckoidb@...
Subject: Re: Any update on Mckoi's status?

My current idea is to add more collaborative features to the website.
This will happen with the server move. The current server is getting a
bit rusty.

Is there anyone with experience/suggestions on collaborative tools? I'm
thinking of some type of wiki for documentation/article collab that is
easily modable and in Java so we can use a Mckoi server to back it.

Version 2 code is close to a buildable state. As soon as I have a build
that you can do all the basics, I'll be putting the code out to the list.

Toby.

Mark Salter wrote:

> Tobias Downer wrote:
>
>> This project has mostly been a one man show. That has its good and
>> bad points, but I think going into the future this is going to have to
>> change.
> And it should be a two way street.
>
> With the details of the Mckoi internals available on the website, I'm
> sure some people will be more likely to start supporting the solution
> they use.
>
> As a long time lurker (but not a Mckoi user) of this list, I will be
> happy to assist where/when I can. May I suggest you try delegating to
> the list when you feel the need?
>
> Are you near to sharing access to the version 2 code? I for one would
> like to take a look at the pre-release, perhaps helping to polish the
> finish?
>

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Re: Any update on Mckoi's status?

2008-01-30T15:40:39Z

My current idea is to add more collaborative features to the website.
This will happen with the server move. The current server is getting a
bit rusty.

Is there anyone with experience/suggestions on collaborative tools? I'm
thinking of some type of wiki for documentation/article collab that is
easily modable and in Java so we can use a Mckoi server to back it.

Version 2 code is close to a buildable state. As soon as I have a build
that you can do all the basics, I'll be putting the code out to the list.

Toby.

Mark Salter wrote:

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Re: Any update on Mckoi's status?

2008-01-30T15:38:34Z

Specification of user defined functions will be changing in 2.0 but it
will still be relatively straightforward to add them to a database.

Toby.

Nicholas Romero wrote:

> Toby,
>
> I am very glad to hear that the project is on track. As a long time user
> for many internal projects I have been satisfied and even pleasantly
> surprised by the stability and performance. It just works for what I
> need it for. My emphasis is on reliability over flat out speed and tons
> of features. One of the most useful features has always been the
> mechanism to add additional functions to the base system. This has taken
> care of 90% of what I needed. The only thing I would like to see is an
> ODBC driver or compatibility with some other wire protocol so that
> someone else's driver could be used. This would come in handy in quite
> a few places.
>
> Beyond all this. Thank you Toby for all the hard work. If I can
> contribute to the beer fund, let me know.
> -nxn

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Re: Any update on Mckoi's status?

2008-01-30T11:52:32Z

Yes, I too am pleased to hear that you are still involved Toby. If you
do open up development, I'm sure there will be others willing to help.
I include myself in that too.

Bayless

----- Original Message -----
From: "Alex Molochnikov" <molochnikov@...>
To: <mckoidb@...>
Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2008 10:41 PM
Subject: Re: Any update on Mckoi's status?

> That's a good news. Glad to hear the project is alive.
>
> Best wishes.
>
> Thanks,
> Alex
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Tobias Downer" <toby@...>
> To: <mckoidb@...>
> Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2008 9:02 PM
> Subject: Re: Any update on Mckoi's status?
>
>
>> I'm still here. I can understand your pessimism about the Mckoi
>> project. However, the project is not going to be in limbo for much
>> longer and I'll be putting all doubts about the project being abandoned
>> soon. Just the past two months I've been straightening out the SQL
>> parser, planner and optimizer in v2 and it's coming together nicely. As
>> soon as I have a build that is usable, it'll be up on the website.
>>
>> Version 2 is intended to return the project to the track it was
>> originally envisioned to take, that of a strict transactional database
>> codebase that is easy to understand and extend in any way a developer
>> may want, not just limited to SQL. To that end, I plan on adding a
>> great deal more documentation about how Mckoi works and examples of what
>> you can do with it to the website. I think people who are interested in
>> the workings of transactional databases will like this a lot and I'm
>> hoping it will open the project up to a wider audience that are
>> interested in more primitive data storage/query APIs but want the option
>> of going to a full featured SQL system when needed.
>>
>> There's a lot of new stuff I can't wait to show off. Don't be surprised
>> if a lot of new stuff suddenly starts happening around here.
>>
>> Toby.
>>
>> Alexander Molochnikov wrote:
>> > The silence is deafening...
>> >
>> > I mean the silence of Toby, the original developer. If he is no longer
>> > watching this mailing list, this speaks for itself. If he is watching,
>> > but keeps silent, then this is even more telling.
>> >
>> > Either way, I am growing more pessimistic by the hour.
>> >
>> > And no, I do not expect a group of other Java programmers to pick up a
>> > project that seems to have been abandoned. If the original authors did
>> > not have enough interest and/or confidence in the merits of the
>> > project,
>> > the outsiders never will.
>> >
>> > Maybe it's just me.
>> >
>> > Alex Molochnikov
>> >
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------
>> Mckoi SQL Database mailing list http://www.mckoi.com/database/
>> To unsubscribe, send a message to mckoidb-unsubscribe@...
>>
>>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------
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> To unsubscribe, send a message to mckoidb-unsubscribe@...
>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.15/1249 - Release Date:
> 1/29/2008 9:51 AM
>
>

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Re: Any update on Mckoi's status?

2008-01-30T05:21:19Z

Toby,

I am very glad to hear that the project is on track. As a long time user
for many internal projects I have been satisfied and even pleasantly
surprised by the stability and performance. It just works for what I
need it for. My emphasis is on reliability over flat out speed and tons
of features. One of the most useful features has always been the
mechanism to add additional functions to the base system. This has taken
care of 90% of what I needed. The only thing I would like to see is an
ODBC driver or compatibility with some other wire protocol so that
someone else's driver could be used. This would come in handy in quite
a few places.

Beyond all this. Thank you Toby for all the hard work. If I can
contribute to the beer fund, let me know.
-nxn

Tobias Downer wrote:
> I'm still here. I can understand your pessimism about the Mckoi
> project. However, the project is not going to be in limbo for much
> longer and I'll be putting all doubts about the project being
> abandoned {...}
> Toby.

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Re: Any update on Mckoi's status?

2008-01-30T02:35:48Z

Toby,

These news about the ongoing development are wonderful, specially for
people like us making a great use of McKoi in our applications and
pretty satisfied.
The only remark I have to make is that, watching at the history of the
mailing list, this announcement was already done back in the days,
almost 1 year ago, but you haven't released any new code.
Naturally, it's your project and since it's open and free we rely on
you for new developments, but McKoi is a very nice, well-structured
and performant DBS, and it would be a shame not to spread it.

May I suggest you a strategy for the release? You should commit any
major change, although not fully working, into the versioning system:
more developers and contributors could be interested in helping you
fixing some problems. My 2c.

Cheer up and good luck for your work!
John

On Jan 30, 2008 8:33 AM, Mark Salter <marksalter@...> wrote:

> Tobias Downer wrote:
>
> > This project has mostly been a one man show. That has its good and bad
> > points, but I think going into the future this is going to have to change.
> And it should be a two way street.
>
> With the details of the Mckoi internals available on the website, I'm
> sure some people will be more likely to start supporting the solution
> they use.
>
> As a long time lurker (but not a Mckoi user) of this list, I will be
> happy to assist where/when I can. May I suggest you try delegating to
> the list when you feel the need?
>
> Are you near to sharing access to the version 2 code? I for one would
> like to take a look at the pre-release, perhaps helping to polish the
> finish?
>
> --
> Mark
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------
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>
>

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Re: Any update on Mckoi's status?

2008-01-29T23:33:17Z

Tobias Downer wrote:

> This project has mostly been a one man show. That has its good and bad
> points, but I think going into the future this is going to have to change.
And it should be a two way street.

With the details of the Mckoi internals available on the website, I'm
sure some people will be more likely to start supporting the solution
they use.

As a long time lurker (but not a Mckoi user) of this list, I will be
happy to assist where/when I can. May I suggest you try delegating to
the list when you feel the need?

Are you near to sharing access to the version 2 code? I for one would
like to take a look at the pre-release, perhaps helping to polish the
finish?

--
Mark

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RE: Any update on Mckoi's status?

2008-01-29T21:02:25Z

RE: Any update on Mckoi's status?

Hi Toby,

Thanks for your breaking silence. I am pleased
to hear the updates and direction you have in
mind.

Tena Sakai

-----Original Message-----
From: mckoidb@... on behalf of Tobias Downer
Sent: Tue 1/29/2008 8:02 PM
To: mckoidb@...
Subject: Re: Any update on Mckoi's status?

I'm still here. I can understand your pessimism about the Mckoi
project. However, the project is not going to be in limbo for much
longer and I'll be putting all doubts about the project being abandoned
soon. Just the past two months I've been straightening out the SQL
parser, planner and optimizer in v2 and it's coming together nicely. As
soon as I have a build that is usable, it'll be up on the website.

Version 2 is intended to return the project to the track it was
originally envisioned to take, that of a strict transactional database
codebase that is easy to understand and extend in any way a developer
may want, not just limited to SQL. To that end, I plan on adding a
great deal more documentation about how Mckoi works and examples of what
you can do with it to the website. I think people who are interested in
the workings of transactional databases will like this a lot and I'm
hoping it will open the project up to a wider audience that are
interested in more primitive data storage/query APIs but want the option
of going to a full featured SQL system when needed.

There's a lot of new stuff I can't wait to show off. Don't be surprised
if a lot of new stuff suddenly starts happening around here.

Toby.

Alexander Molochnikov wrote:
> The silence is deafening...
>
> I mean the silence of Toby, the original developer. If he is no longer
> watching this mailing list, this speaks for itself. If he is watching,
> but keeps silent, then this is even more telling.
>
> Either way, I am growing more pessimistic by the hour.
>
> And no, I do not expect a group of other Java programmers to pick up a
> project that seems to have been abandoned. If the original authors did
> not have enough interest and/or confidence in the merits of the project,
> the outsiders never will.
>
> Maybe it's just me.
>
> Alex Molochnikov
>

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Re: Any update on Mckoi's status?

2008-01-29T20:41:14Z

That's a good news. Glad to hear the project is alive.

Best wishes.

Thanks,
Alex

----- Original Message -----
From: "Tobias Downer" <toby@...>
To: <mckoidb@...>
Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2008 9:02 PM
Subject: Re: Any update on Mckoi's status?

> I'm still here. I can understand your pessimism about the Mckoi
> project. However, the project is not going to be in limbo for much
> longer and I'll be putting all doubts about the project being abandoned
> soon. Just the past two months I've been straightening out the SQL
> parser, planner and optimizer in v2 and it's coming together nicely. As
> soon as I have a build that is usable, it'll be up on the website.
>
> Version 2 is intended to return the project to the track it was
> originally envisioned to take, that of a strict transactional database
> codebase that is easy to understand and extend in any way a developer
> may want, not just limited to SQL. To that end, I plan on adding a
> great deal more documentation about how Mckoi works and examples of what
> you can do with it to the website. I think people who are interested in
> the workings of transactional databases will like this a lot and I'm
> hoping it will open the project up to a wider audience that are
> interested in more primitive data storage/query APIs but want the option
> of going to a full featured SQL system when needed.
>
> There's a lot of new stuff I can't wait to show off. Don't be surprised
> if a lot of new stuff suddenly starts happening around here.
>
> Toby.
>
> Alexander Molochnikov wrote:
> > The silence is deafening...
> >
> > I mean the silence of Toby, the original developer. If he is no longer
> > watching this mailing list, this speaks for itself. If he is watching,
> > but keeps silent, then this is even more telling.
> >
> > Either way, I am growing more pessimistic by the hour.
> >
> > And no, I do not expect a group of other Java programmers to pick up a
> > project that seems to have been abandoned. If the original authors did
> > not have enough interest and/or confidence in the merits of the project,
> > the outsiders never will.
> >
> > Maybe it's just me.
> >
> > Alex Molochnikov
> >
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------
> Mckoi SQL Database mailing list http://www.mckoi.com/database/
> To unsubscribe, send a message to mckoidb-unsubscribe@...
>
>

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Re: Any update on Mckoi's status?

2008-01-29T20:36:40Z

Hi Alex,

Do you mind describing what the limiting functionality of Mckoi was in
your project and what you found was better in another database you
tried? I'm really interested in hearing constructive feedback
(particularly so of the negative kind) on any aspect of Mckoi.

Toby.

alexander.finger@... wrote:

> Good point rich,
> It is better to work on a pre-existing one rather than start from scratch. Also I know that many people have great experiences with mckoi; I did when I first started using it. Unfortunately the more functionality my software required the more limited I found mckoi to be.

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Re: Any update on Mckoi's status?

2008-01-29T20:24:12Z

Alex,

Part of the reason for this I think is because I took on the
responsibility for all the support on the mailing list in the past and
so it became somewhat expected of me to answer all the questions.
Unfortunately that really burned me out and now Mckoi hasn't seen a
release for a long time it hasn't been a good environment to foster a
helpful community around the software.

This project has mostly been a one man show. That has its good and bad
points, but I think going into the future this is going to have to change.

Toby.

alexander.finger@... wrote:

> True, it is not known to any of us why toby stopped development and their could be any number of reasons. Also you're right that it doesn't make sense to be negative since open source software is fairly well supported regardless of the whereabouts of the original writer(s) and that is huge considering you'd never see that with a proprietary company that discontinued a product.
> However, I've been working on and off with mckoi for a few years now, been a member of this group for almost as long and have tried to acquire support for my mckoi problems many times in the past through here and by attempting to contact toby directly. It had become fairly clear (until now) that there simply isn't support out there and seemingly not a mckoi user community either. With that I have to voice my opinions about the uselssness of being a 'dreamer' in regards to mckoi. I'm a dreamer myself but I can dream up something a little cooler and more useful than a spruced up mckoi, I would like to think.
>
> Alex
> Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
>

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Re: Mailing list content update (was Re: Any update on Mckoi's status?)

2008-01-29T19:59:20Z

Hi,

Yes, I turned off the code that injects messages from the list into the
database in preparation for a server move, but it was delayed. I'm
still intending to move the website to a more modern server and I'll get
around to putting all the archived messages into the database at some point.

Toby.

M. A. Sridhar wrote:

> On a sort-of-related note, the Mckoi mailing list contents don't seem to
> get updated on the Mckoi website (at
> http://mckoi.com/database/mail/list.jsp?list=mckoidb). That seems to
> imply that the service is shut off. Seems odd.
>
> M. A. Sridhar
> |m_a_sridhar at yahoo dot com|
>

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Re: Any update on Mckoi's status?

2008-01-29T19:57:02Z

I'm still here. I can understand your pessimism about the Mckoi
project. However, the project is not going to be in limbo for much
longer and I'll be putting all doubts about the project being abandoned
soon. Just the past two months I've been straightening out the SQL
parser, planner and optimizer in v2 and it's coming together nicely. As
soon as I have a build that is usable, it'll be up on the website.

Version 2 is intended to return the project to the track it was
originally envisioned to take, that of a strict transactional database
codebase that is easy to understand and extend in any way a developer
may want, not just limited to SQL. To that end, I plan on adding a
great deal more documentation about how Mckoi works and examples of what
you can do with it to the website. I think people who are interested in
the workings of transactional databases will like this a lot and I'm
hoping it will open the project up to a wider audience that are
interested in more primitive data storage/query APIs but want the option
of going to a full featured SQL system when needed.

There's a lot of new stuff I can't wait to show off. Don't be surprised
if a lot of new stuff suddenly starts happening around here.

Toby.

Alexander Molochnikov wrote:

> The silence is deafening...
>
> I mean the silence of Toby, the original developer. If he is no longer
> watching this mailing list, this speaks for itself. If he is watching,
> but keeps silent, then this is even more telling.
>
> Either way, I am growing more pessimistic by the hour.
>
> And no, I do not expect a group of other Java programmers to pick up a
> project that seems to have been abandoned. If the original authors did
> not have enough interest and/or confidence in the merits of the project,
> the outsiders never will.
>
> Maybe it's just me.
>
> Alex Molochnikov
>

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Re: Any update on Mckoi's status?

2008-01-29T08:28:22Z

Hi all,

I switched from McKoi to H2 <http://www.h2database.com/> .

Sincerely
Dirk Zöttl

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Mailing list content update (was Re: Any update on Mckoi's status?)

2008-01-29T08:05:29Z

On a sort-of-related note, the Mckoi mailing list contents don't seem to get updated on the Mckoi website (at http://mckoi.com/database/mail/list.jsp?list=mckoidb). That seems to imply that the service is shut off. Seems odd.

M. A. Sridhar
m_a_sridhar at yahoo dot com

----- Original Message ----
From: Tena Sakai <tsakai@...>
To: mckoidb@...; mckoidb@...
Sent: Monday, January 28, 2008 2:07:15 PM
Subject: RE: Any update on Mckoi's status?

RE: Any update on Mckoi's status?

Hello Alex,

I am sure you have reasons to declare/pronounce mcKoi dead,
but that opinion of yours may not be shared universally.
Some of us are dreamers and wanting to be more stupid than
necessary. I regret that period in my life is over.

Tena

-----Original Message-----
From: mckoidb@... on behalf of Alexander Finger
Sent: Mon 1/28/2008 1:44 PM
To: mckoidb@...
Subject: Re: Any update on Mckoi's status?

Personally I can't imagine why anyone would waste their time. If you're
going to try and help continue development on a database their are plenty of
better open source ones out there. McKoi is dead I am sure and nothing is
going to bring her back...

A

On Jan 28, 2008 4:42 PM, Tena Sakai <tsakai@...> wrote:

> Hi folks,
>
> If I were 10 years younger,
> If my mortgage was a bit less and therefore I could afford to work less
> than full time,
> If I were a bit more fluent in database,
> If I were a bit smarter and more ambitious,
>
> THEN I would write to Tobi (is that his name?) and ask:
>
> a) would he be willing to play a role of assisting a small group of
> developers,
> b) what plans he had had for the future of mcKoi while he was leading the
> project actively,
>
> AND
>
> If his response were positive, I would assemble a small group (fewer than
> 6) of java programmers...
>
> Oops, I just woke up from a nice dream and back into a reality. I think
> that's what they call this
> thing I live in. But some of you may be freer, more ambirious, more
> devoting...
> McKoi doesn't have to die.
>
> Tena Sakai
> tsakai@...
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: mckoidb@... on behalf of Richard S. Hall
> Sent: Mon 1/28/2008 1:07 PM
> To: mckoidb@...
> Subject: Re: Any update on Mckoi's status?
>
> The benefit of Mckoi being open source is that anyone that wants to can
> pick up and start where the original developers left off...
>
> -> richard
>
> Alexander Molochnikov wrote:
> > Two days ago I asked he same question on this mailing list.
> >
> > So far, no reply from the developers of the database.
> >
> > It does not look promising.
> >
> > Alex
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "M. A. Sridhar" <m_a_sridhar@...>
> > Date: Monday, January 28, 2008 11:46 am
> > Subject: Any update on Mckoi's status?
> > To: Mckoi mailing list <mckoidb@...>
> >
> > > Does anyone know what's happening with Mckoi? As you know,
> > > the last email in the archives is dated last June, so I'm
> > > wondering if/when the next version might be available.
> > >
> > > Regards.
> > >
> > > M. A. Sridhar
> > > m_a_sridhar at yahoo dot com
> > >
> > >
> > >
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------
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>
>
>

Re: Any update on Mckoi's status?

2008-01-28T20:05:27Z

Well, as users of free and open source software, we certainly would be
wrong in speaking badly about the developers or probably even the
product. As has been pointed out, times do change and people have
to adjust to those changes. If I recall, Toby originally developed McKoi
for his employer who later, graciously agreed to make it open source.
Any number of things could have happened causing both Toby and his
employer to concentrate efforts on other things even to the exclusion of
McKoi. I switched as a personal decision and have no ill feelings for
Toby or his employer. In fact, I salute them for their generosity.

Now, for the licensing concerns. GPL has certainly been an important
contribution to software development and developers. Most of us do
have to make a living though and can't distribute everything we do under
GPL. One of the most interesting features of McKoi was its ability to be
embedded entirely within another product. It was actually the first data
base I discovered with that feature. It was not needed for the major
project I was doing at the time but would have been for some smaller
things in the "thinking" stage. As for any future development on McKoi,
it would definitely be an advantage if it could be relicensed LGPL.

JMHO,
Bayless

----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard S. Hall" <heavy@...>
To: <mckoidb@...>
Sent: Monday, January 28, 2008 6:42 PM
Subject: Re: Any update on Mckoi's status?

> Alexander Molochnikov wrote:
>> I never said McKoi was "no good". Rather, I believe it is its future that
>> is in question.
>
> Yes, I didn't mean to put words in your mouth.
>
>> I, for one, would never attempt to keep the ball rolling on something
>> that has two licenses, one GPL, and one commercial. First, the ambiguity
>> of licensing will have to be resolved, with the commercial license
>> dropped. Second, I would not touch the GPLed stuff either. It is too
>> restrictive for the third party to carry on the development, and usually
>> is a big NO-NO in any commercial environment.
>
> Well, I am no big fan of GPL either, but there is no difficulty in
> continuing the development of the GPL-licensed code...that is the whole
> point of GPL. The only restriction that GPL places on people who fork is
> that they have to keep the license GPL too. For many people, GPL is the
> license of choice for this very "viral" reason.
>
> The dual-licensing scheme is a hedge-your-bets open source strategy by
> many companies, when they still want to try to sell licenses. Of course,
> many are surprised to find out that their work can still be forked if they
> are not responsive to the community. That is why perhaps a better strategy
> is to only open source infrastructure or middleware and keep higher level
> services proprietary...but that is a whole other discussion.
>
>> If McKoi is to be given a new life, it would have to be rebranded as LGPL
>> first. But with the original developers being absent, this is pretty much
>> dead in the water.
>
> Well, you are making a statement of religion, not technology. Many people
> prefer GPL over every other license, many people don't. I agree that this
> could limit mckoi being embedded in other products that do not want GPL,
> but for those that just use JDBC, they might be able to work around this.
>
> -> richard
>
>> Alex Molochnikov
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Richard S. Hall" <heavy@...>
>> Date: Monday, January 28, 2008 4:37 pm
>> Subject: Re: Any update on Mckoi's status?
>> To: mckoidb@...
>>
>> > Alexander Molochnikov wrote:
>> > > The silence is deafening...
>> > I think that is not the right way to look at it. There are lots
>> > of people that take over "dead" or "non-responsive" projects, e.g.,
>> > AtheOS->Syllable, Handbrake->MediaFork (now merged back in),
>> > Compiere->Adempiere, etc.
>> >
>> > As I said, "dead" doesn't equate to "not good", sometimes people
>> > just run out of time.
>> >
>> > -> richard
>
>
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Re: Any update on Mckoi's status?

2008-01-28T16:42:01Z

Alexander Molochnikov wrote:
> I never said McKoi was "no good". Rather, I believe it is its future
> that is in question.

Yes, I didn't mean to put words in your mouth.

> I, for one, would never attempt to keep the ball rolling on something
> that has two licenses, one GPL, and one commercial. First, the
> ambiguity of licensing will have to be resolved, with the commercial
> license dropped. Second, I would not touch the GPLed stuff either. It
> is too restrictive for the third party to carry on the development,
> and usually is a big NO-NO in any commercial environment.

Well, I am no big fan of GPL either, but there is no difficulty in
continuing the development of the GPL-licensed code...that is the whole
point of GPL. The only restriction that GPL places on people who fork is
that they have to keep the license GPL too. For many people, GPL is the
license of choice for this very "viral" reason.

The dual-licensing scheme is a hedge-your-bets open source strategy by
many companies, when they still want to try to sell licenses. Of course,
many are surprised to find out that their work can still be forked if
they are not responsive to the community. That is why perhaps a better
strategy is to only open source infrastructure or middleware and keep
higher level services proprietary...but that is a whole other discussion.

> If McKoi is to be given a new life, it would have to be rebranded as
> LGPL first. But with the original developers being absent, this is
> pretty much dead in the water.

Well, you are making a statement of religion, not technology. Many
people prefer GPL over every other license, many people don't. I agree
that this could limit mckoi being embedded in other products that do not
want GPL, but for those that just use JDBC, they might be able to work
around this.

-> richard

>
> Alex Molochnikov
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Richard S. Hall" <heavy@...>
> Date: Monday, January 28, 2008 4:37 pm
> Subject: Re: Any update on Mckoi's status?
> To: mckoidb@...
>
> > Alexander Molochnikov wrote:
> > > The silence is deafening...
> > I think that is not the right way to look at it. There are lots
> > of people that take over "dead" or "non-responsive" projects, e.g.,
> > AtheOS->Syllable, Handbrake->MediaFork (now merged back in),
> > Compiere->Adempiere, etc.
> >
> > As I said, "dead" doesn't equate to "not good", sometimes people
> > just run out of time.
> >
> > -> richard

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Re: Any update on Mckoi's status?

2008-01-28T16:17:23Z

Richard,

I never said McKoi was "no good". Rather, I believe it is its future that is in question. I, for one, would never attempt to keep the ball rolling on something that has two licenses, one GPL, and one commercial. First, the ambiguity of licensing will have to be resolved, with the commercial license dropped. Second, I would not touch the GPLed stuff either. It is too restrictive for the third party to carry on the development, and usually is a big NO-NO in any commercial environment.

If McKoi is to be given a new life, it would have to be rebranded as LGPL first. But with the original developers being absent, this is pretty much dead in the water.

Alex Molochnikov

----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard S. Hall" <heavy@...>
Date: Monday, January 28, 2008 4:37 pm
Subject: Re: Any update on Mckoi's status?
To: mckoidb@...

> Alexander Molochnikov wrote:
> > The silence is deafening...

> I think that is not the right way to look at it. There are lots
> of people that take over "dead" or "non-responsive" projects, e.g.,
> AtheOS->Syllable, Handbrake->MediaFork (now merged back in),
> Compiere->Adempiere, etc.
>
> As I said, "dead" doesn't equate to "not good", sometimes people
> just run out of time.
>
> -> richard