Mating motor

[pachai]

Hi. I have not been too active lately,
as I have been playing with my new toy - Prius.

But now I am also making progress on my Camry.
And so I need advice from folks who know machining.  

The Camry, my mechanic said, "needs a new motor".
So I am trying to stick a Kostov in it.

Maybe buying a used manual transmission
for the Camry and a new adaptor plate would
have been easier, but here's what I have...

The Kostov, is already mated to a Saturn tranny,
so I hatched a plan to make this work.  The only problem
is a case of hardening of the axle - at manufacture time.

My friend the engineer/weekend machinist
said what I want to do requires million dollar
grinding equipment.

I have 2 options, and I'll post here, and go
study another option.

The Camry and Saturn axles are similar in design,
just different in measurements.   So, I thought,
"chuck it in a lathe" as they say, and make it fit.
Both axles use a Tripod and Tulip plunge joint,
which gives a bit on the x/y and about 2.5" on the z,
but maintains nearly "Constant velocity" in rotation.
The Tripods have been removed from the shafts, which are
splined for them - of course, differently.   Options:

1. Machine the Camry shaft so it will fit the
Tripod from the Saturn.   The trans. side (tulip)
of the axle will come from the Saturn.   The boot
will cover the whole mess fine.

2. Use the Camry shaft and tripod, but machine
the individual bearings from the Saturn to fit
on the Camry tripod.  Again, Saturn tulip,
and the Camry boot will hide it all.

The options are shown in my drawings:
http://www.pachai.net/ev/CV_Joint_Plan_2.pdf
http://www.pachai.net/ev/CV_Joint_Plan_3.pdf

3. See if the other side of the shaft (cage joint)
are closer in size - very unlikely

4. Original thought, to cut all 4 axles
and somehow sleeve them and pin them together
(My engineer/machinist has a cutoff saw)

5. Give up on the Saturn tranny and buy a Camry tranny
and buy a new adaptor plate.  Expensive.
Maybe better to find a Saturn Donor and buy a different
motor for the Camry.  And a transmission.  And adaptor plate.


I'm grateful for any suggestions.
Do you think a commercial machine shop could do different?
I spoke with Dan the CV man, and he was very patient
and nice, but he also mentioned the hardened metal.
http://www.thecvman.com/

Axles may be cold-rolled and hardened, so they may be
impossible to machine.  Do I just bite the bullet
and find someone with a grinding machine?
Or buy an adaptor plate for a Camry trans?


Thanks a lot
Seth


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[Tom Parker-12]

On Wed, 2008-05-14 at 22:31 -0400, Seth Rothenberg wrote:

> The Kostov, is already mated to a Saturn tranny,
> so I hatched a plan to make this work.  The only problem
> is a case of hardening of the axle - at manufacture time.

I've seen at least two examples of cutting and welding axles in EV
projects. I believe Otmar did this to both the Gone Postal van & his
Insight. Gone postal did break an axle but it wasn't at the weld.

You can have a new spline cut with a spark erosion machine. This is how
I intend to connect my gearbox to my wheels. You obviously need one or
other set of shafts to be long enough or fat enough to have the new
spline cut without the old spline showing through. Don't forget that you
can choose which end of the shaft to modify -- you can either adapt the
car's axles to match the gearbox, or adapt the gearbox's axles to match
the car.

I'm not familiar with modern cars, but I would be amazed if they have
standardized the speedo drive system. If the car uses a turning cable
drive then you'll need an adapter for one end as well as a gearbox to
correct the turns per mile. If it's electronic then you'll need some
sort of circuit. If one is electronic and the other a cable, then I'm
sure there are solutions for that too.

The axle machining work plus the speedo adapter may actually cost more
than an adapter plate, and you may be able to sell existing your adapter
plate.

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[Tom Parker-12]

On Thu, 2008-05-15 at 20:15 +1200, Tom Parker wrote:

> The axle machining work plus the speedo adapter may actually cost more
> than an adapter plate, and you may be able to sell existing your adapter
> plate.

As an addendum, I would add that a shaft with a new spline cut on the
end may not be strong enough. I know of a VTEC engine installed in a
Mini which broke several modified shafts (both resplined and welded)
before custom shafts were made from scratch. Consult with your engineer,
maybe the shaft will need re-hardening.

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[Jeff Shanab]

There are so many combinations out there that you may be able to find
something that works.

Perhaps push the adaption furthor out. Change the hubs the axle spline
go in or even the whole upright. Maybe a saturn strut would fit with no
more than a custom bushing.

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