Material Manager Asynchronous Update?

[hoako]

Hi again!

I have been playing with the material manager. Its great, i really like it.

I know this topic has been talked, but don't know its status.
My main concern with the material manager is when updating a material property,
thus creating many rendering jobs. For example playing interactively with the color.
My proposal:
Scheduling the rendering on a time base. I mean, if the render queue is
receiving updates within a time threshold it will wait until the last update is
received or a timer expires (the real time source is a sample of timer). Then it
renders the last received update. This time threshold could be set on the GUI.

Alex, are you working on killing the rendering process? Or this will be reviewed
later?
That would also help to lower the time threshold, i remember of reading about
this also on other mailing list thread. Isn't it?

Cheers!
Joaquín


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[hoako]

Joaquín Duo wrote:

> Hi again!
>
> I have been playing with the material manager. Its great, i really like it.
>
> I know this topic has been talked, but don't know its status.
> My main concern with the material manager is when updating a material property,
> thus creating many rendering jobs. For example playing interactively with the color.
> My proposal:
> Scheduling the rendering on a time base. I mean, if the render queue is
> receiving updates within a time threshold it will wait until the last update is
> received or a timer expires (the real time source is a sample of timer). Then it
> renders the last received update. This time threshold could be set on the GUI.
>
> Alex, are you working on killing the rendering process? Or this will be reviewed
> later?
> That would also help to lower the time threshold, i remember of reading about
> this also on other mailing list thread. Isn't it?

I forgot to mention it. Adding the option of the preview size would also help a
lot with interactivity.
Another super-extra-feature would be rendering the materials on the icons in the
materials list. Icons are quite small so this should be fast.

Cheers!
Joaquín


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[appleGuy]

Hi Joaquín,
> I have been playing with the material manager. Its great, i really like it.
>  
Thanks. Much appreciated :)
> I know this topic has been talked, but don't know its status.
> My main concern with the material manager is when updating a material property,
> thus creating many rendering jobs. For example playing interactively with the color.
> My proposal:
> Scheduling the rendering on a time base. I mean, if the render queue is
> receiving updates within a time threshold it will wait until the last update is
> received or a timer expires (the real time source is a sample of timer). Then it
> renders the last received update. This time threshold could be set on the GUI.
>  
Ah, yes. This sounds like a good idea. Having a user set time property
would really help scale the Material Manager to slow / faster machines.
> Alex, are you working on killing the rendering process? Or this will be reviewed
> later?
>  
To be honest I will probably work on this after the GSOC period. At the
moment I'm trying to sort out a rather nasty win32 bug and have several
features that I need to finish off (serialization of group nesting,
preview size, status colour tags and extra preview geometry)

Btw.. Are you running k3d on Linux?.. Also how is the stability of the
manager on your platform?

> That would also help to lower the time threshold, i remember of reading about
> this also on other mailing list thread. Isn't it?
>  
Yes it would. I need to also put in some code to change like the shading
rate etc to help speed things up.

> Cheers!
> Joaquín
>  
Cheers,
-Alex

>
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[Timothy M. Shead]

Alex Curtis wrote:
>> Scheduling the rendering on a time base. I mean, if the render queue is
>> receiving updates within a time threshold it will wait until the last update is
>> received or a timer expires (the real time source is a sample of timer). Then it
>> renders the last received update. This time threshold could be set on the GUI.  
>>    
> Ah, yes. This sounds like a good idea. Having a user set time property
> would really help scale the Material Manager to slow / faster machines.
>  
To clarify, this would be implemented in the Material Manager, not the
render queue.  Instead of rendering immediately when
propertySignalRender() is called, set / reset a timer, and only render
when the timer expires.

Cheers,
Tim

--
Timothy M. Shead, K-3D founder
http://www.k-3d.org



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[appleGuy]

Timothy M. Shead wrote:

> Alex Curtis wrote:
>  
>>> Scheduling the rendering on a time base. I mean, if the render queue is
>>> receiving updates within a time threshold it will wait until the last update is
>>> received or a timer expires (the real time source is a sample of timer). Then it
>>> renders the last received update. This time threshold could be set on the GUI.  
>>>    
>>>      
>> Ah, yes. This sounds like a good idea. Having a user set time property
>> would really help scale the Material Manager to slow / faster machines.
>>  
>>    
> To clarify, this would be implemented in the Material Manager, not the
> render queue.  Instead of rendering immediately when
> propertySignalRender() is called, set / reset a timer, and only render
> when the timer expires.
>  

Yes, I was assuming this was the case.

On A different note. I have almost completely implemented a multi
geometry preview system.

I just have to position / scale the geometry correctly. I was wondering
how do I view my scale / transformations on screen so I don't have to
guess the numbers. Then I can just plug them into a k3d::translation3D etc.

Also I am having problems creating a cube object. The following code
doesnt work for the cube. I think its because there are two parts.. the
PolyCube & PolyCube Instance (its not like a quadratic)??... hmm

  m_doc_node
    = dynamic_cast<k3d::inode*>(k3d::plugin::create("PolyCube",
                                                   
m_document_state->document(),
                                                    _node_name));

Cheers
-Alex


> Cheers,
> Tim
>
>  


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[appleGuy]

OK...

I found out how to find the transformational matrix. I simply looked in
the save file and there it was. :)

Still not sure how to create this polycube properly.

Cheers
-Alex

Alex Curtis wrote:

> Timothy M. Shead wrote:
>> Alex Curtis wrote:
>>  
>>>> Scheduling the rendering on a time base. I mean, if the render
>>>> queue is receiving updates within a time threshold it will wait
>>>> until the last update is received or a timer expires (the real time
>>>> source is a sample of timer). Then it renders the last received
>>>> update. This time threshold could be set on the GUI.            
>>> Ah, yes. This sounds like a good idea. Having a user set time
>>> property would really help scale the Material Manager to slow /
>>> faster machines.
>>>      
>> To clarify, this would be implemented in the Material Manager, not
>> the render queue.  Instead of rendering immediately when
>> propertySignalRender() is called, set / reset a timer, and only
>> render when the timer expires.
>>  
> Yes, I was assuming this was the case.
>
> On A different note. I have almost completely implemented a multi
> geometry preview system.
>
> I just have to position / scale the geometry correctly. I was
> wondering how do I view my scale / transformations on screen so I
> don't have to guess the numbers. Then I can just plug them into a
> k3d::translation3D etc.
>
> Also I am having problems creating a cube object. The following code
> doesnt work for the cube. I think its because there are two parts..
> the PolyCube & PolyCube Instance (its not like a quadratic)??... hmm
>
>  m_doc_node
>    = dynamic_cast<k3d::inode*>(k3d::plugin::create("PolyCube",
>                                                    
> m_document_state->document(),
>                                                    _node_name));
>
> Cheers
> -Alex
>
>
>> Cheers,
>> Tim
>>
>>  
>
>

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[Timothy M. Shead]

> Alex Curtis wrote:
>> On A different note. I have almost completely implemented a multi
>> geometry preview system.
>>
>> I just have to position / scale the geometry correctly. I was
>> wondering how do I view my scale / transformations on screen so I
>> don't have to guess the numbers. Then I can just plug them into a
>> k3d::translation3D etc.
>>
>> Also I am having problems creating a cube object. The following code
>> doesnt work for the cube. I think its because there are two parts..
>> the PolyCube & PolyCube Instance (its not like a quadratic)??... hmm
>>
>>  m_doc_node
>>    = dynamic_cast<k3d::inode*>(k3d::plugin::create("PolyCube",
>>
>> m_document_state->document(),
>>                                                    _node_name));

A PolyCube acts as a data source (it produces a mesh), a MeshInstance acts
as a data sink (it associates a mesh with a transformation matrix).  So
you have to create a MeshInstance and connect the PolyCube output to its
input.  You will also have to create a RenderManPolyhedronPainter, which
maps a mesh to RenderMan calls, and assign it to the MeshInstance.

FWIW, the quadrics will eventually be converted to work the same way.

Cheers,
Tim




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[hoako]

--- El lun 4-ago-08, Alex Curtis <alx.curtis@...> escribió:

> De: Alex Curtis <alx.curtis@...>
> Asunto: Re: [K3d-development] Material Manager Asynchronous Update?
> Para: "General discussion for K-3D development" <k3d-development@...>
> Fecha: lunes, 4 de agosto de 2008, 9:58 am
> OK...
>
> I found out how to find the transformational matrix. I
> simply looked in
> the save file and there it was. :)
>
> Still not sure how to create this polycube properly.

I got building errors on the Material Manager Module

Starts with:
In file included from /home/joa/004-K3d/src/k3d/modules/ngui_material_manager_panel/ContentPanel.cpp:1:
/home/joa/004-K3d/src/k3d/modules/ngui_material_manager_panel/ContentPanel.h:47:26: error: PreviewTorus.h: No such file or directory
/home/joa/004-K3d/src/k3d/modules/ngui_material_manager_panel/ContentPanel.h:48:27: error: PreviewSphere.h: No such file or directory
/home/joa/004-K3d/src/k3d/modules/ngui_material_manager_panel/ContentPanel.h:49:25: error: PreviewCube.h: No such file or directory


Cheers!
Joaquín



      ____________________________________________________________________________________
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[appleGuy]

Joaquin Duo wrote:

>
> --- El lun 4-ago-08, Alex Curtis <alx.curtis@...> escribió:
>
>  
>> De: Alex Curtis <alx.curtis@...>
>> Asunto: Re: [K3d-development] Material Manager Asynchronous Update?
>> Para: "General discussion for K-3D development" <k3d-development@...>
>> Fecha: lunes, 4 de agosto de 2008, 9:58 am
>> OK...
>>
>> I found out how to find the transformational matrix. I
>> simply looked in
>> the save file and there it was. :)
>>
>> Still not sure how to create this polycube properly.
>>    
> I got building errors on the Material Manager Module
>
> Starts with:
> In file included from /home/joa/004-K3d/src/k3d/modules/ngui_material_manager_panel/ContentPanel.cpp:1:
> /home/joa/004-K3d/src/k3d/modules/ngui_material_manager_panel/ContentPanel.h:47:26: error: PreviewTorus.h: No such file or directory
> /home/joa/004-K3d/src/k3d/modules/ngui_material_manager_panel/ContentPanel.h:48:27: error: PreviewSphere.h: No such file or directory
> /home/joa/004-K3d/src/k3d/modules/ngui_material_manager_panel/ContentPanel.h:49:25: error: PreviewCube.h: No such file or directory
>
>
>  

Ahh!... I forgot to add them to svn. Sorry about that.

Please note. The Cube shows a untransformed torus.. Its just a stump
until I get the cube creation sorted. Also doesn't remember the geometry
when panel contents changed. I'm going to get on that today.

Cheers
-Alex

> Cheers!
> Joaquín
>
>
>
>       ____________________________________________________________________________________
> ¡Buscá desde tu celular!
>
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>
> http://ar.mobile.yahoo.com/onesearch
>
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[appleGuy]

Timothy M. Shead wrote:

>> Alex Curtis wrote:
>>    
>>> On A different note. I have almost completely implemented a multi
>>> geometry preview system.
>>>
>>> I just have to position / scale the geometry correctly. I was
>>> wondering how do I view my scale / transformations on screen so I
>>> don't have to guess the numbers. Then I can just plug them into a
>>> k3d::translation3D etc.
>>>
>>> Also I am having problems creating a cube object. The following code
>>> doesnt work for the cube. I think its because there are two parts..
>>> the PolyCube & PolyCube Instance (its not like a quadratic)??... hmm
>>>
>>>  m_doc_node
>>>    = dynamic_cast<k3d::inode*>(k3d::plugin::create("PolyCube",
>>>
>>> m_document_state->document(),
>>>                                                    _node_name));
>>>      
>
>  

Hi Tim,

Is there any chance we could get on this quite soon? (quadratic -> data
source + data sink)

I'm faced with a situation: Its going to take one heck of a re-jig to
get the Material Manger To Play nice with two different methods of
geometry creation.
I need to get to things that are separated into two nodes that with the
quadratics are in one node. Then I would have to check if its a
quadratic and do it a different way.
Since its going to be done anyway all that extra code will need to
change again at some point.

As an alternative, I could always just knock the cube geo on the head
for now and stick to sphere / torus until we get it ported over. I've
got lots to work on anyway.

Cheers
-Alex

> A PolyCube acts as a data source (it produces a mesh), a MeshInstance acts
> as a data sink (it associates a mesh with a transformation matrix).  So
> you have to create a MeshInstance and connect the PolyCube output to its
> input.  You will also have to create a RenderManPolyhedronPainter, which
> maps a mesh to RenderMan calls, and assign it to the MeshInstance.
>
> FWIW, the quadrics will eventually be converted to work the same way.
>
> Cheers,
> Tim
>
>
>
>
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>  

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[Timothy M. Shead]

> Is there any chance we could get on this quite soon? (quadratic -> data
> source + data sink)
>
> I'm faced with a situation: Its going to take one heck of a re-jig to
> get the Material Manger To Play nice with two different methods of
> geometry creation.
> I need to get to things that are separated into two nodes that with the
> quadratics are in one node. Then I would have to check if its a
> quadratic and do it a different way.
> Since its going to be done anyway all that extra code will need to
> change again at some point.
>
> As an alternative, I could always just knock the cube geo on the head
> for now and stick to sphere / torus until we get it ported over. I've
> got lots to work on anyway.

I would suggest that you go with the latter option, the change I alluded
to won't be happening in the near-term.

Cheers,
Tim


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[appleGuy]

Hi Gang,

The geometry aspect of the manager is just about there now.

The latest commit added the following features:
*Remembers Selected Geometry In Material Profile Panel
*Remembers Selected Geometry In Group Panel (From The Choice Made In The
Profile Panel)
*Defaults To Sphere If No Selection Has previously occurred
*Uses an efficient mechanism of node creation. Only ever loads the nodes
into the document that are absolutely required + no duplicates of nodes.
*A load of bug fixes.

Could you guys just test the aforementioned features out. See if you can
get it to crash and tell me what you like / don't like about it.

Note: I have just prototyped this feature. There is lots of code
duplication / code commented out / in-efficient code. I'll scrub it down
tomorrow.

Next on the list is Group Nesting > Serialization. Are there any docs on
how k3d does this? Does it involve getting into XML? I haven't looked at
XML before :(

After that documentation + tests ... I will then work on some more
features such as the preview sizer and the render timer that Joaquín and
I talked about.

Looking forward to everyone's feedback :)

Cheers
-Alex



Timothy M. Shead wrote:

>> Is there any chance we could get on this quite soon? (quadratic -> data
>> source + data sink)
>>
>> I'm faced with a situation: Its going to take one heck of a re-jig to
>> get the Material Manger To Play nice with two different methods of
>> geometry creation.
>> I need to get to things that are separated into two nodes that with the
>> quadratics are in one node. Then I would have to check if its a
>> quadratic and do it a different way.
>> Since its going to be done anyway all that extra code will need to
>> change again at some point.
>>
>> As an alternative, I could always just knock the cube geo on the head
>> for now and stick to sphere / torus until we get it ported over. I've
>> got lots to work on anyway.
>>    
>
> I would suggest that you go with the latter option, the change I alluded
> to won't be happening in the near-term.
>
> Cheers,
> Tim
>
>
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[appleGuy]

Hi Gang,

I've just realized that I have broken the material assignment in the
group panel.

Please Ignore that for now. Its all about the geometry at the moment.

Another fixer for tomorrows list.

Cheers
-Alex

Alex Curtis wrote:

> Hi Gang,
>
> The geometry aspect of the manager is just about there now.
>
> The latest commit added the following features:
> *Remembers Selected Geometry In Material Profile Panel
> *Remembers Selected Geometry In Group Panel (From The Choice Made In
> The Profile Panel)
> *Defaults To Sphere If No Selection Has previously occurred
> *Uses an efficient mechanism of node creation. Only ever loads the
> nodes into the document that are absolutely required + no duplicates
> of nodes.
> *A load of bug fixes.
>
> Could you guys just test the aforementioned features out. See if you
> can get it to crash and tell me what you like / don't like about it.
>
> Note: I have just prototyped this feature. There is lots of code
> duplication / code commented out / in-efficient code. I'll scrub it
> down tomorrow.
>
> Next on the list is Group Nesting > Serialization. Are there any docs
> on how k3d does this? Does it involve getting into XML? I haven't
> looked at XML before :(
>
> After that documentation + tests ... I will then work on some more
> features such as the preview sizer and the render timer that Joaquín
> and I talked about.
>
> Looking forward to everyone's feedback :)
>
> Cheers
> -Alex
>
>
>
> Timothy M. Shead wrote:
>>> Is there any chance we could get on this quite soon? (quadratic -> data
>>> source + data sink)
>>>
>>> I'm faced with a situation: Its going to take one heck of a re-jig to
>>> get the Material Manger To Play nice with two different methods of
>>> geometry creation.
>>> I need to get to things that are separated into two nodes that with the
>>> quadratics are in one node. Then I would have to check if its a
>>> quadratic and do it a different way.
>>> Since its going to be done anyway all that extra code will need to
>>> change again at some point.
>>>
>>> As an alternative, I could always just knock the cube geo on the head
>>> for now and stick to sphere / torus until we get it ported over. I've
>>> got lots to work on anyway.
>>>    
>>
>> I would suggest that you go with the latter option, the change I alluded
>> to won't be happening in the near-term.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Tim
>>
>>
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>>
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>> challenge
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>> world
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>>
>>  
>
>

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[appleGuy]

Alex Curtis wrote:
> Hi Gang,
>
> I've just realized that I have broken the material assignment in the
> group panel.
>
> Please Ignore that for now. Its all about the geometry at the moment.
>
> Another fixer for tomorrows list.
I have just committed another version that fixes this bug.

Any other problems then please do tell :)

Cheers
-Alex

>
> Cheers
> -Alex
>
> Alex Curtis wrote:
>> Hi Gang,
>>
>> The geometry aspect of the manager is just about there now.
>>
>> The latest commit added the following features:
>> *Remembers Selected Geometry In Material Profile Panel
>> *Remembers Selected Geometry In Group Panel (From The Choice Made In
>> The Profile Panel)
>> *Defaults To Sphere If No Selection Has previously occurred
>> *Uses an efficient mechanism of node creation. Only ever loads the
>> nodes into the document that are absolutely required + no duplicates
>> of nodes.
>> *A load of bug fixes.
>>
>> Could you guys just test the aforementioned features out. See if you
>> can get it to crash and tell me what you like / don't like about it.
>>
>> Note: I have just prototyped this feature. There is lots of code
>> duplication / code commented out / in-efficient code. I'll scrub it
>> down tomorrow.
>>
>> Next on the list is Group Nesting > Serialization. Are there any docs
>> on how k3d does this? Does it involve getting into XML? I haven't
>> looked at XML before :(
>>
>> After that documentation + tests ... I will then work on some more
>> features such as the preview sizer and the render timer that Joaquín
>> and I talked about.
>>
>> Looking forward to everyone's feedback :)
>>
>> Cheers
>> -Alex
>>
>>
>>
>> Timothy M. Shead wrote:
>>>> Is there any chance we could get on this quite soon? (quadratic ->
>>>> data
>>>> source + data sink)
>>>>
>>>> I'm faced with a situation: Its going to take one heck of a re-jig to
>>>> get the Material Manger To Play nice with two different methods of
>>>> geometry creation.
>>>> I need to get to things that are separated into two nodes that with
>>>> the
>>>> quadratics are in one node. Then I would have to check if its a
>>>> quadratic and do it a different way.
>>>> Since its going to be done anyway all that extra code will need to
>>>> change again at some point.
>>>>
>>>> As an alternative, I could always just knock the cube geo on the head
>>>> for now and stick to sphere / torus until we get it ported over. I've
>>>> got lots to work on anyway.
>>>>    
>>>
>>> I would suggest that you go with the latter option, the change I
>>> alluded
>>> to won't be happening in the near-term.
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Tim
>>>
>>>
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>>>  
>>
>>
>
>

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