Map references

[Greg Vincent]

Hi Allen and Terry,

I found Bill Robb's house on the TOPO Canada system and made a waypoint but Bill later replied with a Google Maps/Earth reference that is quite a bit different.  Then I checked my own location here in Oak Lake with the TOPO reference and Google shows me to be somewhere out in the country East of town.  I also entered "Hamiota Manitoba" and it locates the town somewhere north-west of where it actually is.

My GPS follows perfectly (except where Saskatchewan moved part of the Trans-Canada Highway) on the TOPO map so I'm inclined to think that Google is off a bit.  Maybe it gets more accurate if I pay for one of their versions?

Is there a simple explanation - one that doesn't imply problems with my sanity? :-)

Regards,

Greg

> From: "Greg Vincent" <gvincent@...>
> Perhaps you could get Allen or Terry to set a waypoint at your house and
> send it to me, or do it the "old way" and give me your address :-) :-)

[William Robb-3]

----- Original Message -----
From: "Greg Vincent"
Subject: [PrairiePhoto] Map references

> Hi Allen and Terry,
>
> I found Bill Robb's house on the TOPO Canada system and made a waypoint but Bill later replied
> with a Google Maps/Earth reference that is quite a bit different.  Then I checked my own
> location here in Oak Lake with the TOPO reference and Google shows me to be somewhere out in
> the country East of town.  I also entered "Hamiota Manitoba" and it locates the town somewhere
> north-west of where it actually is.
>
> My GPS follows perfectly (except where Saskatchewan moved part of the Trans-Canada Highway) on
> the TOPO map so I'm inclined to think that Google is off a bit.  Maybe it gets more accurate
> if I pay for one of their versions?
>
> Is there a simple explanation - one that doesn't imply problems with my sanity? :-)

Hmmm. I thought stuff like longitudes and latitudes had been standardized.
So much for my faith in Google!!

The simple explanation starts with turn right at Balgonie......

See ya in a couple of weeks. Make sure you make time for coffee and a look at the fleet.

bill


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[Greg Vincent]

Hmmmm, here's one fellow who thinks there are inaccuracies between Google Earth and Google Maps: http://freegeographytools.com/2007/positional-accuracy-in-google-maps-my-maps-vs-google-earth

Ah ha, here's a site that indicates Google Maps is in BETA, so accuracy doesn't matter: http://www.spatiallyadjusted.com/2005/08/10/chris-tweedie-looks-at-google-maps-accuracy/

I guess I'll stick with TOPO and Garmin.

One way or another I'll find you Bill :-)  Coffee for sure.  The fleet?

Regards,

Greg
 
> From: "William Robb" <warobb@...>
> Hmmm. I thought stuff like longitudes and latitudes had been standardized.
> So much for my faith in Google!!
>
> The simple explanation starts with turn right at Balgonie......
>
> See ya in a couple of weeks. Make sure you make time for coffee and a look at the fleet.

[Allen & Gail Lefebvre]

Now you've totally undermined my confidence in Google!  
 
Any time I have pulled coordinates in Google Earth and entered them into my
GPS Topo map, they have looked right.  I just did a double check on my own
house using the coordinates from my GPS, and it comes up within a few feet
of where it should (puts me in my back yard rather than front step).  An
acceptable level of accuracy from my perspective.
 
I noticed that Google updated the image of Regina a while back, maybe this
has to do with the alignment or registration of some images?  As an example,
past this into Google Earth to see a misalignment. N50 24 55.55 W104 31
52.83.
 
Interesting with Hamiota, that a search locates it wrong, but they actually
have the label for the town exactly where it should be.  Sounds like maybe
the source database is wrong.
 
With Google Earth, the coordinates are at your cursor, so it's critical to
have your cursor over the EXACT spot where you want a location and then read
it off the footer at the bottom of the page.  Is it possible you had your
cursor somewhere else on the page when you read it?
 
Allen
 
 
 
 

-----Original Message-----
From: PrairiePhoto@... [mailto:PrairiePhoto@...] On
Behalf Of Greg Vincent
Sent: May 7, 2008 7:49 AM
To: PrairiePhoto@...
Subject: [PrairiePhoto] Map references



Hi Allen and Terry,

I found Bill Robb's house on the TOPO Canada system and made a waypoint but
Bill later replied with a Google Maps/Earth reference that is quite a bit
different. Then I checked my own location here in Oak Lake with the TOPO
reference and Google shows me to be somewhere out in the country East of
town. I also entered "Hamiota Manitoba" and it locates the town somewhere
north-west of where it actually is.

My GPS follows perfectly (except where Saskatchewan moved part of the
Trans-Canada Highway) on the TOPO map so I'm inclined to think that Google
is off a bit. Maybe it gets more accurate if I pay for one of their
versions?

Is there a simple explanation - one that doesn't imply problems with my
sanity? :-)

Regards,

Greg

> From: "Greg Vincent" <gvincent@mts. <mailto:gvincent%40mts.net> net>
> Perhaps you could get Allen or Terry to set a waypoint at your house and
> send it to me, or do it the "old way" and give me your address :-) :-)



 

[Jim MacKenzie]

----- Original Message -----
From: "Allen & Gail Lefebvre" <ag.lefebvre@...>
To: <PrairiePhoto@...>
Sent: Wednesday, May 07, 2008 9:16 AM
Subject: RE: [PrairiePhoto] Map references


> Any time I have pulled coordinates in Google Earth and entered them into
> my
> GPS Topo map, they have looked right.  I just did a double check on my own
> house using the coordinates from my GPS, and it comes up within a few feet
> of where it should (puts me in my back yard rather than front step).  An
> acceptable level of accuracy from my perspective.

All likely within the margin of error, too.  I don't know how accurate
Google's latitude and longitude coordinates are, but GPS receivers are often
as much as ten or fifteen metres out and even if you can pick up WAAS
satellites (and not all GPS receivers use them), you still only get within
two to three metres.

Consumer GPS receivers are terrible if you want to know precisely where
something is, but if you want to know roughly where it is, they are just
fine.  Usually, knowing roughly is the same as knowing.

Jim

[William Robb-3]

----- Original Message -----
From: "Allen & Gail Lefebvre"
Subject: RE: [PrairiePhoto] Map references



> With Google Earth, the coordinates are at your cursor, so it's critical to
> have your cursor over the EXACT spot where you want a location and then read
> it off the footer at the bottom of the page.  Is it possible you had your
> cursor somewhere else on the page when you read it?

I just checked, and the coordinates I sent to Greg are definitely off the center of the roof of
my house.
Go figure.
bill


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[Greg Vincent]

Hi Jim,

I bought my GPS at Wal-Mart with my MasterCard, so it should be pretty darned accurate :-) :-)

Just for fun, here's the co-ordinates where I'm at right now:

Google Maps: 49.860130  -100.482609 (top of building)
Garmin GPS: 49 51.623  100 28.956 (front of building)

Really, I don't need pinpoint accuracy because getting close is usually good enough but if someone (like Bill did last night) gives me Google co-ordinates and I put them into my TOPO map, I'll probably be off by quite some distance -- unless you can point out something I need to change in my calculations.  As I said before, using the Garmin and TOPO map, I'm driving right on the highway and it very accurately pinpoints briges, rivers, power lines and buildings.  But, Google has me bamboozled :-)

Maybe KK has the right idea -- "shoot film and use a map" :-) :-)

Regards,

Greg
 

> From: "Jim MacKenzie" <jim@...>
> All likely within the margin of error, too.  I don't know how accurate
> Google's latitude and longitude coordinates are, but GPS receivers are often
> as much as ten or fifteen metres out and even if you can pick up WAAS
> satellites (and not all GPS receivers use them), you still only get within
> two to three metres.
>
> Consumer GPS receivers are terrible if you want to know precisely where
> something is, but if you want to know roughly where it is, they are just
> fine.  Usually, knowing roughly is the same as knowing.
>
> Jim
>
>
>

[Jim MacKenzie]

----- Original Message -----
From: "Greg Vincent" <gvincent@...>
To: <PrairiePhoto@...>
Sent: Wednesday, May 07, 2008 11:16 AM
Subject: Re: Re: [PrairiePhoto] Map references


> Just for fun, here's the co-ordinates where I'm at right now:
>
> Google Maps: 49.860130  -100.482609 (top of building)
> Garmin GPS: 49 51.623  100 28.956 (front of building)

These are close.

49 51.623' is 49.860383, which is very close to the 49.860130 that Google
Maps is generating.  100 28.956' is 100.4826, which is very close to Google
Maps too.

Is the issue the conversion from decimal degrees to degrees, minutes and
seconds and vice versa?

49 51.623' is definitely not the same as 49.51623.  There are 60 minutes in
a degree, so 49 51.623' is 49 + (51.623/60) degrees.

Jim

[Greg Vincent]

Hi Jim,

Thank you very much.  That conversion thing never crossed my mind :-)  

Regards,

Greg
 

> From: "Jim MacKenzie" <jim@...>
> These are close.
>
> 49 51.623' is 49.860383, which is very close to the 49.860130 that Google
> Maps is generating.  100 28.956' is 100.4826, which is very close to Google
> Maps too.
>
> Is the issue the conversion from decimal degrees to degrees, minutes and
> seconds and vice versa?
>
> 49 51.623' is definitely not the same as 49.51623.  There are 60 minutes in
> a degree, so 49 51.623' is 49 + (51.623/60) degrees.\

[Noel Charchuk]

While on the topic of GPS units in cars, you know you are in the prairies when:

We?drove from Calgary to Regina without using the GPS at all, and then for fun, turn the unit on in the east side of Regina, entered the address in Brandon we were going to. Once the satellites were acquired, the voice prompt advised us "In 350 kilometers, turn left."

; )

Noel
Calgary



-----Original Message-----
From: Greg Vincent <gvincent@...>
To: PrairiePhoto@...
Sent: Wed, 7 May 2008 12:05 pm
Subject: Re: Re: [PrairiePhoto] Map references






Hi Jim,

Thank you very much. That conversion thing never crossed my mind :-)

Regards,

Greg

> From: "Jim MacKenzie" <jim@...>
> These are close.
>
> 49 51.623' is 49.860383, which is very close to the 49.860130 that Google
> Maps is generating. 100 28.956' is 100.4826, which is very close to Google
> Maps too.
>
> Is the issue the conversion from decimal degrees to degrees, minutes and
> seconds and vice versa?
>
> 49 51.623' is definitely not the same as 49.51623. There are 60 minutes in
> a degree, so 49 51.623' is 49 + (51.623/60) degrees.\

 

[Greg Vincent]

Hi Noel,

Now you know how easy it is for me to navigate out here :-) :-)

On those longer trips I enter a few waypoints and set the proximity alarms just to break the monotony :-)

Regards,

Greg
 
> From: Noel Charchuk <nhcharch@...>
> While on the topic of GPS units in cars, you know you are in the prairies when:
>
> We?drove from Calgary to Regina without using the GPS at all, and then for fun, turn the unit on in the east side of Regina, entered the address in Brandon we were going to. Once the satellites were acquired, the voice prompt advised us "In 350 kilometers, turn left."

[Noel Charchuk]

Are you using the alarms to "break the monotony" or to wake you up? ; ) I found myself getting quite dozy travelling between Regina and Moose Jaw on the last trip out there. My wife made me listen to a soft rock station on the Sirius radio, and I needed some "proximity alarms", that's for sure!

Noel


-----Original Message-----
From: Greg Vincent <gvincent@...>
To: PrairiePhoto@...
Sent: Thu, 8 May 2008 8:52 am
Subject: Re: Re: [PrairiePhoto] Map references






Hi Noel,

Now you know how easy it is for me to navigate out here :-) :-)

On those longer trips I enter a few waypoints and set the proximity alarms just to break the monotony :-)

Regards,

Greg

> From: Noel Charchuk <nhcharch@...>
> While on the topic of GPS units in cars, you know you are in the prairies when:
>
> We?drove from Calgary to Regina without using the GPS at all, and then for fun, turn the unit on in the east side of Regina, entered the address in Brandon we were going to. Once the satellites were acquired, the voice prompt advised us "In 350 kilometers, turn left."



 

[Greg Vincent]

Hi Noel,

I used to live at Mosse Jaw but we often hit the bars in Regina, and yes, that drive between the two cities made us sleepy ..... or was it the Molsons ......

I'm heading for Regina solo this Saturday, so maybe I should alarm some of the waypoints I marked a few weeks ago :-)  There are a few "kodak moment" sites in my GPS, so maybe I'll use them as an excuse to stop and stretch the old legs and take a few shots too.  Nothing wrong with Regina as a destination, but I might as well make the journey interesting :-) other than slowing for Moosomin and watching out for that slight curve at the Qu'apelle turnoff :-) :-)

I don't often listen to the radio when I'm driving, but I'm sure soft rock, or anything other than rockin' country would put me to sleep pretty quick.

Regards,

Greg
 
> From: Noel Charchuk <nhcharch@...>
> Are you using the alarms to "break the monotony" or to wake you up? ; ) I found myself getting quite dozy travelling between Regina and Moose Jaw on the last trip out there. My wife made me listen to a soft rock station on the Sirius radio, and I needed some "proximity alarms", that's for sure!

[KironKid]

 
In a message dated 5/13/2008 7:13:32 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,  
gvincent@... writes:

 
 
 
Hi Noel,

I used to live at Mosse Jaw but we often hit the bars in  Regina, and yes,
that drive between the two cities made us sleepy ..... or was  it the Molsons
......

I'm heading for Regina solo this Saturday, so  maybe I should alarm some of
the waypoints I marked a few weeks ago :-) There  are a few "kodak moment"
sites in my GPS, so maybe I'll use them as an excuse  to stop and stretch the old
legs and take a few shots too. Nothing wrong with  Regina as a destination,
but I might as well make the journey interesting :-)  other than slowing for
Moosomin and watching out for that slight curve at the  Qu'apelle turnoff :-) :-)

I don't often listen to the radio when I'm  driving, but I'm sure soft rock,
or anything other than rockin' country would  put me to sleep pretty  quick.

Regards,

Greg







Greg
 
    Looking forward to seeing the snaps. You have a  CD player in the mobile?
 
Kiron Kid

"A photograph that mirrors reality, cannot  compare to one that reflects the
spirit"



**************Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family
favorites at AOL Food.      
(http://food.aol.com/dinner-tonight?NCID=aolfod00030000000001)

[KironKid]

 
In a message dated 5/13/2008 6:40:01 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,  
nhcharch@... writes:

Are  you using the alarms to "break the monotony" or to wake you up? ; ) I
found  myself getting quite dozy travelling between Regina and Moose Jaw on the
last  trip out there. My wife made me listen to a soft rock station on the
Sirius  radio, and I needed some "proximity alarms", that's for  sure!





I need to send you some of Steve's "pickin"  tunes...
 
Kiron Kid

"A photograph that mirrors reality, cannot  compare to one that reflects the
spirit"



**************Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family
favorites at AOL Food.      
(http://food.aol.com/dinner-tonight?NCID=aolfod00030000000001)

[Greg Vincent]

Hi KK,

My Neon is "CD player challenged".  Cassette tape player on board :-)

So far the weather reports are calling for sunshine on Saturday between here and Regina.  Bright sun, mid-day, hmmmmmmm perhaps an opportunity to fool around with a bit of HDR :-)

Regards,

Greg

> From: KironKid@...  
>     Looking forward to seeing the snaps. You have a  CD player in the mobile?

[KironKid]

 
In a message dated 5/13/2008 8:10:13 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,  
gvincent@... writes:

Hi  KK,

My Neon is "CD player challenged". Cassette tape player on board  :-)

So far the weather reports are calling for sunshine on Saturday  between here
and Regina. Bright sun, mid-day, hmmmmmmm perhaps an opportunity  to fool
around with a bit of HDR :-)






Too bad. I could have burned you some "road  trip" music.   That's  how I
garnered these snaps. It's not the lens or film, it's the state of  mind.
 
   _http://www.flickr.com/photos/38463255@N00/sets/72157594393954530/_
(http://www.flickr.com/photos/38463255@N00/sets/72157594393954530/)
 
Kiron Kid

"A photograph that mirrors reality, cannot  compare to one that reflects the
spirit"



**************Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family
favorites at AOL Food.      
(http://food.aol.com/dinner-tonight?NCID=aolfod00030000000001)

[Greg Vincent]

Ye of the film era, dabbling in digital music???

I agree with the film or lens thing -- state of mind.  When I did portraiture and such I would get into a "state of mind" and thoroughly enjoy the experience (most of the time) and now that I have recently become interested in landscapes, I hope the same feeling comes to the fore (most of the time).  

I've always enjoyed shooting landscapes, but I got hung up on having people in them :-) and the people were always the centre of attention.  But as I become older and more reclusive..........perhaps a quiet and lonely old piece of landscape with a touch of soft Celtic music in the background .........

Greg

> From: KironKid@...
> Too bad. I could have burned you some "road  trip" music.   That's  how I
> garnered these snaps. It's not the lens or film, it's the state of  mind.