Manage Control Events- NRPN (Non Registered Parameters Number)

[Sean Beeson]

Hi,

I was hoping to be able to send NRPN Control Events to ZynAddSubFx being that there doesn't seem to be another way to control the system/insertion effects in Zyn in a more precise why. In Rosegarden's Manage Midi Devices' --> Manage Control Events sub-window you can add Control Events for what seem to only be RPNs or ones that only take one Control Event value because you can only put in one value for the Control Event , which works well, btw. In Zyn you need to send two Control Event values--course and fine for its' NRPNs. You also need to send two, course and fine, data values. Is there a way for me to actually input these values and I have just missed it or....I just can do it?

Any help on how I can send NRPNs to ZynAddSubFx in Rosegarden or some other way will be much appreciated.

Thanks and regards,

-Sean

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[Sean Beeson]

Hi,

Back in March I asked this question. I didn't get a reply about it.
Maybe, because it is pretty esoteric. I would just like to try again
and pull it out from the depths of the archives. Someone may be more
reseptive this time.

Hi,

I was hoping to be able to send NRPN Control Events to ZynAddSubFx
being that there doesn't seem to be another way to control the
system/insertion effects in Zyn in a more precise why. In Rosegarden's
Manage Midi Devices' --> Manage Control Events sub-window you can add
Control Events for what seem to only be RPNs or ones that only take
one Control Event value because you can only put in one value for the
Control Event , which works well, btw. In Zyn you need to send two
Control Event values--course and fine for its' NRPNs. You also need to
send two, course and fine, data values. Is there a way for me to
actually input these values and I have just missed it or....I just can
do it?

Any help on how I can send NRPNs to ZynAddSubFx in Rosegarden or some
other way will be much appreciated.

Thanks and regards,

-Sean

On Wed, Mar 26, 2008 at 2:46 AM, Sean Beeson <seanbeeson@...> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I was hoping to be able to send NRPN Control Events to ZynAddSubFx being
> that there doesn't seem to be another way to control the system/insertion
> effects in Zyn in a more precise why. In Rosegarden's Manage Midi Devices'
> --> Manage Control Events sub-window you can add Control Events for what
> seem to only be RPNs or ones that only take one Control Event value because
> you can only put in one value for the Control Event , which works well, btw.
> In Zyn you need to send two Control Event values--course and fine for its'
> NRPNs. You also need to send two, course and fine, data values. Is there a
> way for me to actually input these values and I have just missed it or....I
> just can do it?
>
> Any help on how I can send NRPNs to ZynAddSubFx in Rosegarden or some other
> way will be much appreciated.
>
> Thanks and regards,
>
> -Sean
>

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[D. Michael McIntyre]

On Tuesday 15 July 2008, Sean Beeson wrote:

> Any help on how I can send NRPNs to ZynAddSubFx in Rosegarden or some
> other way will be much appreciated.

I let this one pass by the first time because this question addresses matters
of MIDI arcana which are totally unknown to me.  I can't say definitively
that this is totally impossible to do with Rosegarden, but I highly suspect
that is the case.  We're weak on "power user" features for MIDI hackers,
because we're "the best MIDI sequencer for users who prefer working with
notation" and not "the best MIDI sequencer."  All our events are stored in an
internal format, and they're translated to and from pure MIDI along the way.  
I know for a fact our internal format doesn't have the flexibility to permit
true program and bank changes in the middle of a sequence, and that this
limitation is built into the foundation infrastructure in a way that makes
this issue really hard to solve years after the initial design has so much
built upon it.  I don't know enough about this RPN vs. NRPN issue to speak
with any certainty, but my intuition tells me this is very likely another
casualty of our fundamental sequencer architecture.

Perhaps you might have better luck with MusE?  I've generally found MusE is
more of a sequencer's sequencer than we are.  We accomplish a lot of
sequencing and a lot of notation under one roof, but both suffer from each
other to some extent.  Building an application that attempts to do high
quality notation at the same time it can behave as something approximating a
pure sequencer has turned out to be immensely challenging.  I think it is for
good reason that nobody in the commercial realm has ever attempted anything
quite like Rosegarden.
--
D. Michael McIntyre

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[D. Michael McIntyre]

On Wednesday 16 July 2008, you wrote:

> wonder if I am
> not missing something about using ZynAddSubFx with a sequencer that
> the rest of the world knows.

I use ZynAddSubFX for lots of stuff, but I have no idea how to control any of
its parameters from Rosegarden.  I guess I just muddle through, and/or I'm
too ignorant and unrefined to understand why what I'm doing sounds horrible
to a more delicate ear.

> I was lead to these NRPNes from
> ZynAddSubFx own pages. I haven't tried syncing two MIDI sequencers
> together (something tells me it should be easier than finding out
> about NRPNes) as of yet and know and like Rosegarden the best and
> would like to keep it as my main frontend. I know where to start my
> hacking again, now. Any tips or covets on using MusE or another
> sequencer with Rosegarden? I have stuck to using Jack exclusively.
> Once I actually look into doing it it may be a simple matter.

I think MusE speaks JACK Transport.  For this application, that's probably
what you'd need to do.

Looks like not, or if it's there, I don't see it.  They do support MIDI
syncing though, and I think we do too.  I've never actually used that before.

Let's see...  I go to Settings -> Midi Sync and select (*) Slave in MusE (the
version that ships with Ubuntu 8.04.  I have no idea if it's the latest
version or not.)

Then in Rosegarden I go to Settings -> Configure Rosegarden, on the MIDI page,
the MIDI Sync tab.  Being totally ignorant, I guess that I want to set them
to:

  Send MIDI Clock, Start and Stop
  Send MMC Master
  Send MTC Master
  [x] Automatically connect sync outputs to all devices in use

Hit play and...

No joy.  Half an hour later, still no joy.  I have no idea what I'm doing, and
I don't know which part of the chain is broken here.  I've never had to use
the old timey MIDI sync stuff for anything in my life.  In the modern
Rosegarden era, when I do need to sync things, I'm used to everything
speaking JACK Transport.

Alas.

Oh well, I tried.  You're going to need a real MIDI expert from here, instead
of just someone who plays one on TV.  Assuming MusE can even do this thing
you want, which I would establish before going any further with this quest if
I were you.
--
D. Michael McIntyre

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