MSP430 + Zigbee or similar RF module?

[Richard (UK).]

Hi,

Does anyone know of a chip or module with a Zigbee style RF unit controlled by a MSP430?

(I want to build a long life battery powered tiny RF tag similar to a PIC controlled tag I currently use for asset protection/tracking)

Thanks.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Claro Louie]

Hi Richard,
Try the EZ430RF2480 kit from Ti. This includes the MSP430F2274 and a CC2480 Zigbee Processor.. This was also suggested to me by Alonso ( also from msp groups).
cheers,
Claro



----- Original Message ----
From: Richard (UK) <ymsp430@...>
To: msp430@...
Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2008 6:50:31 PM
Subject: [msp430] MSP430 + Zigbee or similar RF module?


Hi,

Does anyone know of a chip or module with a Zigbee style RF unit controlled by a MSP430?

(I want to build a long life battery powered tiny RF tag similar to a PIC controlled tag I currently use for asset protection/tracking )

Thanks.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

 


     

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[edkeane13]

Hi Richard

 

I have used Embers Em260 with the Msp it provides a good spi interface and
works perfectly.

 

Regards

 

ed

 

 

 

  _____  

From: msp430@... [mailto:msp430@...] On Behalf Of
Claro Louie
Sent: 17 July 2008 13:07
To: msp430@...
Subject: SPAM-LOW: Re: [msp430] MSP430 + Zigbee or similar RF module?

 

Hi Richard,
Try the EZ430RF2480 kit from Ti. This includes the MSP430F2274 and a CC2480
Zigbee Processor.. This was also suggested to me by Alonso ( also from msp
groups).
cheers,
Claro

----- Original Message ----
From: Richard (UK) <ymsp430@augmentics. <mailto:ymsp430%40augmentics.com>
com>
To: msp430@yahoogroups. <mailto:msp430%40yahoogroups.com> com
Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2008 6:50:31 PM
Subject: [msp430] MSP430 + Zigbee or similar RF module?

Hi,

Does anyone know of a chip or module with a Zigbee style RF unit controlled
by a MSP430?

(I want to build a long life battery powered tiny RF tag similar to a PIC
controlled tag I currently use for asset protection/tracking )

Thanks.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Shoaib Javed]

If low power consumption is the goal then two processor solution may not be
the best approach.

Em250 or TI's 8051 / CC2420  based chip should do.

 

SJ

 

  _____  

From: msp430@... [mailto:msp430@...] On Behalf Of ed
keane
Sent: 17 July 2008 13:42
To: msp430@...
Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] RE: SPAM-LOW: Re: [msp430] MSP430 + Zigbee or
similar RF module?

 

Hi Richard

I have used Embers Em260 with the Msp it provides a good spi interface and
works perfectly.

Regards

ed

_____

From: msp430@yahoogroups. <mailto:msp430%40yahoogroups.com> com
[mailto:msp430@yahoogroups. <mailto:msp430%40yahoogroups.com> com] On Behalf
Of
Claro Louie
Sent: 17 July 2008 13:07
To: msp430@yahoogroups. <mailto:msp430%40yahoogroups.com> com
Subject: SPAM-LOW: Re: [msp430] MSP430 + Zigbee or similar RF module?

Hi Richard,
Try the EZ430RF2480 kit from Ti. This includes the MSP430F2274 and a CC2480
Zigbee Processor.. This was also suggested to me by Alonso ( also from msp
groups).
cheers,
Claro

----- Original Message ----
From: Richard (UK) <ymsp430@augmentics. <mailto:ymsp430%40augmentics.com>
com>
To: msp430@yahoogroups. <mailto:msp430%40yahoogroups.com> com
Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2008 6:50:31 PM
Subject: [msp430] MSP430 + Zigbee or similar RF module?

Hi,

Does anyone know of a chip or module with a Zigbee style RF unit controlled
by a MSP430?

(I want to build a long life battery powered tiny RF tag similar to a PIC
controlled tag I currently use for asset protection/tracking )

Thanks.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[old_cow_yellow]

Any news/rumor about MSP430F5xx with on-chip radio?

BTW, I tried XMS430F5438 (without radio). The chip is more ready than
the development tools. Any comment from others.
 
--- In msp430@..., "Shoaib Javed" <sjaved@...> wrote:
>
> If low power consumption is the goal then two processor solution may
not be

> the best approach.
>
> Em250 or TI's 8051 / CC2420  based chip should do.
>
>  
>
> SJ
>
>  
>
>   _____  
>
> From: msp430@... [mailto:msp430@...] On

Behalf Of ed

> keane
> Sent: 17 July 2008 13:42
> To: msp430@...
> Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] RE: SPAM-LOW: Re: [msp430] MSP430 + Zigbee or
> similar RF module?
>
>  
>
> Hi Richard
>
> I have used Embers Em260 with the Msp it provides a good spi

interface and

> works perfectly.
>
> Regards
>
> ed
>
> _____
>
> From: msp430@yahoogroups. <mailto:msp430%40yahoogroups.com> com
> [mailto:msp430@yahoogroups. <mailto:msp430%40yahoogroups.com> com]

On Behalf
> Of
> Claro Louie
> Sent: 17 July 2008 13:07
> To: msp430@yahoogroups. <mailto:msp430%40yahoogroups.com> com
> Subject: SPAM-LOW: Re: [msp430] MSP430 + Zigbee or similar RF module?
>
> Hi Richard,
> Try the EZ430RF2480 kit from Ti. This includes the MSP430F2274 and a
CC2480
> Zigbee Processor.. This was also suggested to me by Alonso ( also
from msp
> groups).
> cheers,
> Claro
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Richard (UK) <ymsp430@augmentics.
<mailto:ymsp430%40augmentics.com>
> com>
> To: msp430@yahoogroups. <mailto:msp430%40yahoogroups.com> com
> Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2008 6:50:31 PM
> Subject: [msp430] MSP430 + Zigbee or similar RF module?
>
> Hi,
>
> Does anyone know of a chip or module with a Zigbee style RF unit
controlled
> by a MSP430?
>
> (I want to build a long life battery powered tiny RF tag similar to
a PIC

> controlled tag I currently use for asset protection/tracking )
>
> Thanks.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>  
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

[Onestone-2]

iT MAY HAVE A COUPLE MORE PORTS, AND A WHOLE LOAD OF EXTRA MEMORY but
the 2MHz extra from the non-A version makes it barely worth the effort
or risk in my opinion. i don't need lots of memory except for data
logging, and for those systems i don't need lots of I/O, so the bigger
part is a liability, I would be interested in a 256k flash part with 20
pins or 2 full ports in 28 pins, but really there is not much new and
exciting about it for me. external memory is cheap, so the extra few
bucks for the 543x is too much. the 32 bit multiplier might be nice for
some apps, but, again, for me those are usually low pin count sensor
stuff where some filtering is desirable. The 25MHz version might be
interesting as an upgrade to my old MANIC design, but I'd rather see
some interesting new peripherals, sure the RTC is nice, but it appears
that the 32768kHz crystal mode now sucks 900uA MORE than the VLOor
improvements to the old ones, like either or both edge triggering,
triggering on more I/o ports, a programmable filter peripheral, even
more accurate DCO without external crystal, RF of course, but much
simpler than the CCxxxx parts, basically  almost a UART with one or two
config registers, how about improved current drive on at least a couple
of pins, or a built in low power switcher as well as the  LDO so that
single cell operation is finally diretly available. To me this is still
one of the major drawbacks of the MSP.

Nice that the active current /MHz is down from 365uA on the 24xx parts
to just 165uA on the 54xx parts, but then it gets screwed up by the low
power mode currents. Taking 25C and the best possible value of PMMREV
for the 54xx vs 25C and 3V Vcc in both cases the LMP3 current increases
from a nominal 1.1uA in LPM3 with the 32768Hz crystal running to 2.6uA,
a huge increase. using the VLO this jumps from 0.5 to 1.1uA. On Low
Power systems this and the wake up time are the factors most critical to
low mean current. It seems from this that the RTC_A is actually quite a
liability power consumption wise, and we might be better off using the
old interrupt method of maintaining a clock.And I guess someone
somewhere likes the new LPM5, but i don't see the point, just power the
damned thing down totally. What I'd rather see is an LPM4 like mode that
has better wake up than just a switch on P1 or P2, or a forced reset via
the watchdog timeout. How about  a super low power mode with a
programmable high value divider for the 32768Hz crystal (26xx style with
low current raher than the power hungry RTC_A) that enabled wake up at
much longer periods than the current system. Say programmable divide
from 1 - 65536. This shouldn't draw any more current than the exising
system, since it remains a simple binary divider, and allows wake up
periods from 2 seconds (on timer overflow) to approximately a day and a
half. Of course the CPU would get fed with the undivided clock signal on
wake up.

Anyway, as you can guess, for me this part is pretty unattractive, to
the point where I'm not interested even in evaluating it physically.

Al

old_cow_yellow wrote:

>Any news/rumor about MSP430F5xx with on-chip radio?
>
>BTW, I tried XMS430F5438 (without radio). The chip is more ready than
>the development tools. Any comment from others.
>
>--- In msp430@..., "Shoaib Javed" <sjaved@...> wrote:
>  
>
>>If low power consumption is the goal then two processor solution may
>>    
>>
>not be
>  
>
>>the best approach.
>>
>>Em250 or TI's 8051 / CC2420  based chip should do.
>>
>>
>>
>>SJ
>>
>>
>>
>>  _____  
>>
>>From: msp430@... [mailto:msp430@...] On
>>    
>>
>Behalf Of ed
>  
>
>>keane
>>Sent: 17 July 2008 13:42
>>To: msp430@...
>>Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] RE: SPAM-LOW: Re: [msp430] MSP430 + Zigbee or
>>similar RF module?
>>
>>
>>
>>Hi Richard
>>
>>I have used Embers Em260 with the Msp it provides a good spi
>>    
>>
>interface and
>  
>
>>works perfectly.
>>
>>Regards
>>
>>ed
>>
>>_____
>>
>>From: msp430@yahoogroups. <mailto:msp430%40yahoogroups.com> com
>>[mailto:msp430@yahoogroups. <mailto:msp430%40yahoogroups.com> com]
>>    
>>
>On Behalf
>  
>
>>Of
>>Claro Louie
>>Sent: 17 July 2008 13:07
>>To: msp430@yahoogroups. <mailto:msp430%40yahoogroups.com> com
>>Subject: SPAM-LOW: Re: [msp430] MSP430 + Zigbee or similar RF module?
>>
>>Hi Richard,
>>Try the EZ430RF2480 kit from Ti. This includes the MSP430F2274 and a
>>    
>>
>CC2480
>  
>
>>Zigbee Processor.. This was also suggested to me by Alonso ( also
>>    
>>
>from msp
>  
>
>>groups).
>>cheers,
>>Claro
>>
>>----- Original Message ----
>>From: Richard (UK) <ymsp430@augmentics.
>>    
>>
><mailto:ymsp430%40augmentics.com>
>  
>
>>com>
>>To: msp430@yahoogroups. <mailto:msp430%40yahoogroups.com> com
>>Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2008 6:50:31 PM
>>Subject: [msp430] MSP430 + Zigbee or similar RF module?
>>
>>Hi,
>>
>>Does anyone know of a chip or module with a Zigbee style RF unit
>>    
>>
>controlled
>  
>
>>by a MSP430?
>>
>>(I want to build a long life battery powered tiny RF tag similar to
>>    
>>
>a PIC
>  
>
>>controlled tag I currently use for asset protection/tracking )
>>
>>Thanks.
>>
>>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>
>>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>
>>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>
>>    
>>
>
>
>
>------------------------------------
>
>To unsubscribe from the msp430 group, send an email to:
>msp430-unsubscribe@...
>
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>  
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Matthias Weingart-2]

"Shoaib Javed" <sjaved@...>:

>> EM260
> Em250
 
How much current consumption does a zigbee endpoint need?
What is the lowest possible value? Wakeup-time of 1 second
would be ok for me.

M.

[Shoaib Javed]

On Em250 the current consumption while processor is working and the radio is
off is about 8mA

With radio on it is about 36mA

In sleep mode with internal RC timer on it is about 1uA (datasheet)

With external 32KHz crystal it is 1.5uA (datasheet)

 

In Router, Coordinator or a regular end device the 36mA current draw is the
constant as the radio receiver is always turned on but in the Sleepy End
device the radio receiver is turned on and off as required so it is not easy
to say how much current the device will consume for a data transaction as
the radio will be turned on and off by the zigbee stack and is not under
applications control. Please see below for a current consumption profile of
a Sleepy End Device from wake-up to collecting measurement data, to
transmitting it, to checking for new messages with parent node and then
going back to sleep.

 

Current (mA)      Duration (mS)

36                     0.7

8.66                  25

34.64                1.2

36                     1.1

34.64                3

36                     2.8

34.64                1

36                     1.1

34.64                1

10.65                1

34.64                0.4

36                     1.1

34.64                5.4

36                     1

34.64                2.3

7.99                  10

 

The first 25mS is taken while offline measurement and data collection was
going on. Some of the time in the above table can be shaved off by changing
the behaviour of the application.

 

Regards,

SJ

 

  _____  

From: msp430@... [mailto:msp430@...] On Behalf Of
Matthias Weingart
Sent: 20 July 2008 11:23
To: msp430@...
Subject: [msp430] RE: RE: SPAM-LOW: Re: MSP430 + Zigbee or similar RF
module?

 

"Shoaib Javed" <sjaved@wirelessmeas
<mailto:sjaved%40wirelessmeasurement.com> urement.com>:

>> EM260
> Em250

How much current consumption does a zigbee endpoint need?
What is the lowest possible value? Wakeup-time of 1 second
would be ok for me.

M.

 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Matthias Weingart-2]

Shoaib,
thank you for your detailed answer!
So my conclusion is, zigbee is nothing for a low power device.
With a custom radio protocol it is possible to level down the
power requirement of a sleepy endpoint below 50uA or less -
just a question how often the endpoint is in contact with the master, once
per second for 100us is possible and will lower power consumption to
1/10000 of the trx current.
I recall that zigbee was advertised as "very low power" radio. ;)

M.

"Shoaib Javed" <sjaved@...>:

> On Em250 the current consumption while processor is working and the
> radio is off is about 8mA
>
> With radio on it is about 36mA
>
> In sleep mode with internal RC timer on it is about 1uA (datasheet)
>
> With external 32KHz crystal it is 1.5uA (datasheet)
>
>  
>
> In Router, Coordinator or a regular end device the 36mA current draw is
> the constant as the radio receiver is always turned on but in the Sleepy
> End device the radio receiver is turned on and off as required so it is
> not easy to say how much current the device will consume for a data
> transaction as the radio will be turned on and off by the zigbee stack
> and is not under applications control. Please see below for a current
> consumption profile of a Sleepy End Device from wake-up to collecting
> measurement data, to transmitting it, to checking for new messages with
> parent node and then going back to sleep.
>
>  
>
> Current (mA)      Duration (mS)
>
> 36                     0.7
>
> 8.66                  25
>
> 34.64                1.2
>
> 36                     1.1
>
> 34.64                3
>
> 36                     2.8
>
> 34.64                1
>
> 36                     1.1
>
> 34.64                1
>
> 10.65                1
>
> 34.64                0.4
>
> 36                     1.1
>
> 34.64                5.4
>
> 36                     1
>
> 34.64                2.3
>
> 7.99                  10
>
>  
>
> The first 25mS is taken while offline measurement and data collection
> was going on. Some of the time in the above table can be shaved off by
> changing the behaviour of the application.
>
>  
>
> Regards,
>
> SJ
>
>  
>
>   _____  
>
> From: msp430@... [mailto:msp430@...] On Behalf
> Of Matthias Weingart
> Sent: 20 July 2008 11:23
> To: msp430@...
> Subject: [msp430] RE: RE: SPAM-LOW: Re: MSP430 + Zigbee or similar RF
> module?
>
>  
>
> "Shoaib Javed" <sjaved@wirelessmeas
><mailto:sjaved%40wirelessmeasurement.com> urement.com>:
>
>>> EM260
>> Em250
>
> How much current consumption does a zigbee endpoint need?
> What is the lowest possible value? Wakeup-time of 1 second
> would be ok for me.
>
> M.
>
>  
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> To unsubscribe from the msp430 group, send an email to:
> msp430-unsubscribe@...
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>

[Shoaib Javed]

If think of point to point communication then probably you are right but if
you consider what you get in terms of Zigbee network (multiple hops ,
security, number of nodes in a network) then its different.

If you trying to build star network then perhaps SimpliciTI is good as it is
simple, open source, light weight, etc etc.

 

The sleepy end device can remain asleep for days before making a contact
with parent consuming only a micro amp. Though messages kept on the parent
will timeout in a maximum of 30 seconds after. There is usually a mechanism
for creating and sending a message to the sleepy child as it polls its
parent and this mechanism can be used to keep deliver message to a child
whose sleep periods are excessive.

 

"very power radio" when the radio is on either RX or TX  its takes 36mA and
this for 3dbm output power. The CC2510 current consumption is also of the
order of  twenty or more milli amps with radio on. So essentially, the Radio
on time should be minimized to prolong battery life which is only possible
if the protocol is very simple and light weight or if the interval to poll
the parent is adequate to give reasonable average power consumption. The
profile I sent earlier had three application initiated poll messages to the
parent (this will send out a message on the RF and then wait for a reply
keeping the radio on) and one application message sent across one hop which
meant that the end to end acknowledgment was not instant. The profile I sent
is of a sensor which has approx 3.5 years operational life (ideal
conditions) on a 2.4Ah battery at 30 seconds measurement reporting interval.

 

Zigbee and SimliciTi are both useful depending upon application.

 

Regards,

SJ

 

 

 

  _____  

From: msp430@... [mailto:msp430@...] On Behalf Of
Matthias Weingart
Sent: 21 July 2008 16:08
To: msp430@...
Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] [msp430] RE: RE: RE: Re: MSP430 + Zigbee or
similar RF module?

 

Shoaib,
thank you for your detailed answer!
So my conclusion is, zigbee is nothing for a low power device.
With a custom radio protocol it is possible to level down the
power requirement of a sleepy endpoint below 50uA or less -
just a question how often the endpoint is in contact with the master, once
per second for 100us is possible and will lower power consumption to
1/10000 of the trx current.
I recall that zigbee was advertised as "very low power" radio. ;)

M.

"Shoaib Javed" <sjaved@wirelessmeas
<mailto:sjaved%40wirelessmeasurement.com> urement.com>:

> On Em250 the current consumption while processor is working and the
> radio is off is about 8mA
>
> With radio on it is about 36mA
>
> In sleep mode with internal RC timer on it is about 1uA (datasheet)
>
> With external 32KHz crystal it is 1.5uA (datasheet)
>
>
>
> In Router, Coordinator or a regular end device the 36mA current draw is
> the constant as the radio receiver is always turned on but in the Sleepy
> End device the radio receiver is turned on and off as required so it is
> not easy to say how much current the device will consume for a data
> transaction as the radio will be turned on and off by the zigbee stack
> and is not under applications control. Please see below for a current
> consumption profile of a Sleepy End Device from wake-up to collecting
> measurement data, to transmitting it, to checking for new messages with
> parent node and then going back to sleep.
>
>
>
> Current (mA) Duration (mS)
>
> 36 0.7
>
> 8.66 25
>
> 34.64 1.2
>
> 36 1.1
>
> 34.64 3
>
> 36 2.8
>
> 34.64 1
>
> 36 1.1
>
> 34.64 1
>
> 10.65 1
>
> 34.64 0.4
>
> 36 1.1
>
> 34.64 5.4
>
> 36 1
>
> 34.64 2.3
>
> 7.99 10
>
>
>
> The first 25mS is taken while offline measurement and data collection
> was going on. Some of the time in the above table can be shaved off by
> changing the behaviour of the application.
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> SJ
>
>
>
> _____
>
> From: msp430@yahoogroups. <mailto:msp430%40yahoogroups.com> com

[mailto:msp430@yahoogroups. <mailto:msp430%40yahoogroups.com> com] On Behalf

> Of Matthias Weingart
> Sent: 20 July 2008 11:23
> To: msp430@yahoogroups. <mailto:msp430%40yahoogroups.com> com
> Subject: [msp430] RE: RE: SPAM-LOW: Re: MSP430 + Zigbee or similar RF
> module?
>
>
>
> "Shoaib Javed" <sjaved@wirelessmeas
><mailto:sjaved%40wirelessmeasurement.com> urement.com>:
>
>>> EM260
>> Em250
>
> How much current consumption does a zigbee endpoint need?
> What is the lowest possible value? Wakeup-time of 1 second
> would be ok for me.
>
> M.
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> To unsubscribe from the msp430 group, send an email to:
> msp430-unsubscribe@ <mailto:msp430-unsubscribe%40egroups.com> egroups.com
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>

 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Tom Baugh]

Instead of a toy plugged into a USB port, we have a star network RF
prototyping system with handheld units that more resemble an actual
application:

http://www.softbaugh.com/ProductPage.cfm?strPartNo=MRF1611CC1100

These boards are hosted on interface boards:

http://www.softbaugh.com/ProductPage.cfm?strPartNo=HMRF1611

We've also released a book on amazon about using and experimenting
with this system.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/redirect.html?ie=UTF8&location=http%3A%2F%
2Fwww.amazon.com%2FMSP430-RF-Applications-MRF1611CC1100-Reference%
2Fdp%2F0975475908%3Fie%3DUTF8%26s%3Dbooks%26qid%3D1214398172%26sr%3D8-
4&tag=softcom-20&linkCode=ur2&camp=1789&creative=9325

If that link doesn't work, then search amazon for MSP430 as one word,
then look for our blue and white title.

You can work through any of the exercises in the book with the free
demo firmware we provide.

Tom