Laptop advice

Hi all,

I am planning to phase out my old laptop and buy a new one. I consider
myself an expert linux user (I use mostly command line and browser)
and am looking for laptops that are good for college students( I am a
grad student at brown) and support linux.

I need the following things from a laptop:

Wireless and Bluetooth (wireless keyboard and mouse)
Built-in cam and mic (for video chat)
A "non-glossy" high resolution screen
Portable with Good battery life.
No need to have fantastic gaming capabilities, but should be able to
run simple graphics applications.
HDMI/S-Video (to watch TV)

I have the following options:

Dell XPS 1550.(Glossy Screen)
IBMThinkpad T61. (non glossy screen but no multimedia options)
Acer M50v series.(Glossy screen)
Macbook pro(expensive)
Power notebooks (http://www.powernotebooks.com/)

I would be glad to know:
1) Your experiences using linux on any of these.
2) Does powernotebooks have decent linux support?
3) Is there something I can do to make the glossy screen, non-glossy?
4) Any non-mainstream companies, that sell linux laptops at a reasonable price?
5) Please point out anything I may be missing.

While I am at it, how well-supported are tablet PCs on linux? If one
is a command line user, will a tablet PC make my life any better than
a laptop?

Thanks for your time,
-S-

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[Jarod Wilson]

On Mon, 2008-06-23 at 14:02 -0400, Suman wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> I am planning to phase out my old laptop and buy a new one. I consider
> myself an expert linux user (I use mostly command line and browser)
> and am looking for laptops that are good for college students( I am a
> grad student at brown) and support linux.
>
> I need the following things from a laptop:
>
> Wireless and Bluetooth (wireless keyboard and mouse)
> Built-in cam and mic (for video chat)
> A "non-glossy" high resolution screen
> Portable with Good battery life.
> No need to have fantastic gaming capabilities, but should be able to
> run simple graphics applications.
> HDMI/S-Video (to watch TV)
>
> I have the following options:
>
> Dell XPS 1550.(Glossy Screen)
> IBMThinkpad T61. (non glossy screen but no multimedia options)
> Acer M50v series.(Glossy screen)
> Macbook pro(expensive)
> Power notebooks (http://www.powernotebooks.com/)
>
> I would be glad to know:
> 1) Your experiences using linux on any of these.

I use a ThinkPad T61 running Fedora roughly 60hr/wk, everything in it
works great, including 802.11n wireless, external monitor hotplug,
docking/undocking, suspend and resume, etc. Don't recall there being an
option for a built-in camera/mic though.

> 2) Does powernotebooks have decent linux support?

No clue, never heard of them before.

> 3) Is there something I can do to make the glossy screen, non-glossy?

No.

> 4) Any non-mainstream companies, that sell linux laptops at a reasonable price?

Depends on your definition of reasonable. There's one I have on the tip
of my tongue. Can't remember their name, and I think they were a touch
spendy...

> 5) Please point out anything I may be missing.

Note that HDMI out is possibly going to require nVidia or ATi graphics
and use of their respective binary closed-source drivers.

> While I am at it, how well-supported are tablet PCs on linux?

Many of them work reasonably well, for some definition of "reasonably
well". Haven't actually used one myself, so I'm not sure what that
definition covers... I do know they're generally supported, just not
sure how well things like handwriting reco work.

> If one
> is a command line user, will a tablet PC make my life any better than
> a laptop?

My inclination would be no. Typical tablet usage is more pointy-clicky
with a pen input thingy, typing is cumbersome.


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[Robert Krawitz-2]

   Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2008 14:02:08 -0400
   From: Suman <suman.karumuri@...>
   MIME-Version: 1.0
   Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

   Hi all,

   I am planning to phase out my old laptop and buy a new one. I consider
   myself an expert linux user (I use mostly command line and browser)
   and am looking for laptops that are good for college students( I am a
   grad student at brown) and support linux.

   I need the following things from a laptop:

   Wireless and Bluetooth (wireless keyboard and mouse)
   Built-in cam and mic (for video chat)
   A "non-glossy" high resolution screen
   Portable with Good battery life.
   No need to have fantastic gaming capabilities, but should be able to
   run simple graphics applications.
   HDMI/S-Video (to watch TV)

   I have the following options:

   Dell XPS 1550.(Glossy Screen)
   IBMThinkpad T61. (non glossy screen but no multimedia options)
   Acer M50v series.(Glossy screen)
   Macbook pro(expensive)
   Power notebooks (http://www.powernotebooks.com/)

   I would be glad to know:
   1) Your experiences using linux on any of these.
   2) Does powernotebooks have decent linux support?
   3) Is there something I can do to make the glossy screen, non-glossy?
   4) Any non-mainstream companies, that sell linux laptops at a reasonable price?
   5) Please point out anything I may be missing.

   While I am at it, how well-supported are tablet PCs on linux? If one
   is a command line user, will a tablet PC make my life any better than
   a laptop?

I'm about to try on an Inspiron 9400/E1705 I bought on eBay.

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[Kristian Erik Hermansen]

On Mon, Jun 23, 2008 at 11:02 AM, Suman <suman.karumuri@...> wrote:
> I am planning to phase out my old laptop and buy a new one. I consider
> myself an expert linux user (I use mostly command line and browser)
> and am looking for laptops that are good for college students( I am a
> grad student at brown) and support linux.

http://www.zareason.com/shop/home.php
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[bostonlinuxandunix]

I've had the best luck with Thinkpads; I've always found them to work well with
Linux. I had some problems once with a T41 where Ubuntu wouldn't recognize
some of the hardware, but when I reinstalled with Fedora, everything worked
out of the box with no extra tweaking.


On Mon, Jun 23, 2008 at 2:02 PM, Suman <suman.karumuri@...> wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> I am planning to phase out my old laptop and buy a new one. I consider
> myself an expert linux user (I use mostly command line and browser)
> and am looking for laptops that are good for college students( I am a
> grad student at brown) and support linux.
>
> I need the following things from a laptop:
>
> Wireless and Bluetooth (wireless keyboard and mouse)
> Built-in cam and mic (for video chat)
> A "non-glossy" high resolution screen
> Portable with Good battery life.
> No need to have fantastic gaming capabilities, but should be able to
> run simple graphics applications.
> HDMI/S-Video (to watch TV)
>
> I have the following options:
>
> Dell XPS 1550.(Glossy Screen)
> IBMThinkpad T61. (non glossy screen but no multimedia options)
> Acer M50v series.(Glossy screen)
> Macbook pro(expensive)
> Power notebooks (http://www.powernotebooks.com/)
>
> I would be glad to know:
> 1) Your experiences using linux on any of these.
> 2) Does powernotebooks have decent linux support?
> 3) Is there something I can do to make the glossy screen, non-glossy?
> 4) Any non-mainstream companies, that sell linux laptops at a reasonable price?
> 5) Please point out anything I may be missing.
>
> While I am at it, how well-supported are tablet PCs on linux? If one
> is a command line user, will a tablet PC make my life any better than
> a laptop?
>
> Thanks for your time,
> -S-
>
> --
> This message has been scanned for viruses and
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> believed to be clean.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Discuss mailing list
> Discuss@...
> http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>

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[Stephen Adler]

Get a macbook and install vmware fusion...

John Abreau wrote:

> I've had the best luck with Thinkpads; I've always found them to work well with
> Linux. I had some problems once with a T41 where Ubuntu wouldn't recognize
> some of the hardware, but when I reinstalled with Fedora, everything worked
> out of the box with no extra tweaking.
>
>
> On Mon, Jun 23, 2008 at 2:02 PM, Suman <suman.karumuri@...> wrote:
>  
>> Hi all,
>>
>> I am planning to phase out my old laptop and buy a new one. I consider
>> myself an expert linux user (I use mostly command line and browser)
>> and am looking for laptops that are good for college students( I am a
>> grad student at brown) and support linux.
>>
>> I need the following things from a laptop:
>>
>> Wireless and Bluetooth (wireless keyboard and mouse)
>> Built-in cam and mic (for video chat)
>> A "non-glossy" high resolution screen
>> Portable with Good battery life.
>> No need to have fantastic gaming capabilities, but should be able to
>> run simple graphics applications.
>> HDMI/S-Video (to watch TV)
>>
>> I have the following options:
>>
>> Dell XPS 1550.(Glossy Screen)
>> IBMThinkpad T61. (non glossy screen but no multimedia options)
>> Acer M50v series.(Glossy screen)
>> Macbook pro(expensive)
>> Power notebooks (http://www.powernotebooks.com/)
>>
>> I would be glad to know:
>> 1) Your experiences using linux on any of these.
>> 2) Does powernotebooks have decent linux support?
>> 3) Is there something I can do to make the glossy screen, non-glossy?
>> 4) Any non-mainstream companies, that sell linux laptops at a reasonable price?
>> 5) Please point out anything I may be missing.
>>
>> While I am at it, how well-supported are tablet PCs on linux? If one
>> is a command line user, will a tablet PC make my life any better than
>> a laptop?
>>
>> Thanks for your time,
>> -S-
>>
>> --
>> This message has been scanned for viruses and
>> dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
>> believed to be clean.
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>> Discuss mailing list
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>> http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>>
>>    
>
>
>
>  

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[Jerry Feldman-2]

On Mon, 23 Jun 2008 14:02:08 -0400
Suman <suman.karumuri@...> wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> I am planning to phase out my old laptop and buy a new one. I consider
> myself an expert linux user (I use mostly command line and browser)
> and am looking for laptops that are good for college students( I am a
> grad student at brown) and support linux.
>
> I need the following things from a laptop:
>
> Wireless and Bluetooth (wireless keyboard and mouse)
> Built-in cam and mic (for video chat)
> A "non-glossy" high resolution screen
> Portable with Good battery life.
> No need to have fantastic gaming capabilities, but should be able to
> run simple graphics applications.
> HDMI/S-Video (to watch TV)
>
> I have the following options:
>
> Dell XPS 1550.(Glossy Screen)
> IBMThinkpad T61. (non glossy screen but no multimedia options)
> Acer M50v series.(Glossy screen)
> Macbook pro(expensive)
> Power notebooks (http://www.powernotebooks.com/)
>
> I would be glad to know:
> 1) Your experiences using linux on any of these.
> 2) Does powernotebooks have decent linux support?
> 3) Is there something I can do to make the glossy screen, non-glossy?
> 4) Any non-mainstream companies, that sell linux laptops at a reasonable price?
> 5) Please point out anything I may be missing.

I tend to prefer HP laptops as they all have worked well with Linux.
One problems is that AMD equipped notebooks generally use the broadcome
wireless chip. While there is a native driver, under most distros you
need to grab the appropriate firmware. At the installfest, a guy has an
HP/Compaq F560US. Ubuntu 8.04 detected this and presented us with a
menu to download b43-fwcutter, a utility to extract the firmware from
the .sys file. There is a button on the menu that not only causes
b43-fwcutter to be installed, but also extracts the the right firmware.
I didn't press that button the first time, so I copied by b43 directory
from my system, but it didn't work. I then installed NDISWRAPPER, but
that was a problems so I totally removed both b43-fwcutter and
ndiswrapper, and I was able to reload fwcutter and press the right
button, and the wireless came right up.  I've had problems with Dells
at the installfest (Dell also uses Broadcom).

While some people are having issues with the Thinkpad t41, from what I
have seen it is usually the most Linux compatible.  

Also HP tends to support Linux very well, especially in server land.

Once you get your choice narrowed, go to http://www.linux-laptop.net/
and check on the model.
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[Randy Cole]

John Abreau wrote:
> I've had the best luck with Thinkpads; I've always found them to work well with
> Linux. I had some problems once with a T41 where Ubuntu wouldn't recognize
> some of the hardware, but when I reinstalled with Fedora, everything worked
> out of the box with no extra tweaking.
>  
...plus there's a redhat person on this list with a thinkpad :)

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[Jarod Wilson]

On Jun 23, 2008, at 17:37, randy cole wrote:

> John Abreau wrote:
>> I've had the best luck with Thinkpads; I've always found them to  
>> work well with
>> Linux. I had some problems once with a T41 where Ubuntu wouldn't  
>> recognize
>> some of the hardware, but when I reinstalled with Fedora,  
>> everything worked
>> out of the box with no extra tweaking.
>>
> ...plus there's a redhat person on this list with a thinkpad :)

That there is... :)

ThinkPads are far and away the most common laptop within Red Hat (or  
at least in the Westford, MA office). A fair number of HP, Dell and  
Apple laptops and a smattering of other brands, but if I had to guess,  
I doubt the cumulative total of non-ThinkPad laptops even comes close  
to the number of ThinkPads.

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[Kristian Erik Hermansen]

On Mon, Jun 23, 2008 at 4:26 PM, Jarod Wilson <jarod@...> wrote:
> ThinkPads are far and away the most common laptop within Red Hat (or at
> least in the Westford, MA office). A fair number of HP, Dell and Apple
> laptops and a smattering of other brands, but if I had to guess, I doubt the
> cumulative total of non-ThinkPad laptops even comes close to the number of
> ThinkPads.

+1 on Thinkpads: All of them I have owned worked great with Linux (at
least 5 different models)...
-1 on HP: They have all sucked for me with Linux (at least 3 different
models)...
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[Dan Ritter-2]

On Mon, Jun 23, 2008 at 02:02:08PM -0400, Suman wrote:
> I need the following things from a laptop:
>
> Wireless and Bluetooth (wireless keyboard and mouse)
> Built-in cam and mic (for video chat)
> A "non-glossy" high resolution screen
> Portable with Good battery life.
> No need to have fantastic gaming capabilities, but should be able to
> run simple graphics applications.
> HDMI/S-Video (to watch TV)

I'm using a laptop from System 76. Came pre-installed with
Ubuntu. Everything works out of the box -- everything. With the
6-cell battery (a fairly cheap option) battery life is 5-6
hours.

-dsr-

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[Randy Cole]

Jarod Wilson wrote:

> On Jun 23, 2008, at 17:37, randy cole wrote:
>> John Abreau wrote:
>>> I've had the best luck with Thinkpads; I've always found them to
>>> work well with
>>> Linux. I had some problems once with a T41 where Ubuntu wouldn't
>>> recognize
>>> some of the hardware, but when I reinstalled with Fedora, everything
>>> worked
>>> out of the box with no extra tweaking.
>> ...plus there's a redhat person on this list with a thinkpad :)
> That there is... :)
>
> ThinkPads are far and away the most common laptop within Red Hat (or
> at least in the Westford, MA office). A fair number of HP, Dell and
> Apple laptops and a smattering of other brands, but if I had to guess,
> I doubt the cumulative total of non-ThinkPad laptops even comes close
> to the number of ThinkPads.

Stop me if this has been said before, but since most manufacturers are
vague about Linux support, if you can find one in a store and pop a live
cd into it and watch the error messages.

Randy

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[Don Levey-7]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Kristian Erik Hermansen wrote:
| On Mon, Jun 23, 2008 at 4:26 PM, Jarod Wilson <jarod@...> wrote:
|> ThinkPads are far and away the most common laptop within Red Hat (or at
|> least in the Westford, MA office). A fair number of HP, Dell and Apple
|> laptops and a smattering of other brands, but if I had to guess, I
doubt the
|> cumulative total of non-ThinkPad laptops even comes close to the
number of
|> ThinkPads.
|
| +1 on Thinkpads: All of them I have owned worked great with Linux (at
| least 5 different models)...
| -1 on HP: They have all sucked for me with Linux (at least 3 different
| models)...

I've had reasonable success with the two Acer laptops in our house.  So
far the only insurmountable problem (mostly, I think, from lack of
effort) has been the built-in card reader (SD, CF, etc) on one of them.

~ -Don
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[Jerry Feldman-2]

On Mon, 23 Jun 2008 17:26:27 -0700
"Kristian Erik Hermansen" <kristian.hermansen@...> wrote:

> +1 on Thinkpads: All of them I have owned worked great with Linux (at
> least 5 different models)...
> -1 on HP: They have all sucked for me with Linux (at least 3 different
> models)...

In my case, most of my laptops have been HP and they all worked well
under Linux. The one I have now, and HP6125 was certified by HP on
Linux. Both HP and IBM contribute quite a bit to the Linux community.
Both sell servers with Linux installed. HP has contributed its printer
drivers to the open source community for years. The PC division at HP
does not really consider Linux, especially for consumer laptops. For
years, their contracts with Microsoft did not allow them to ship
consumer PCs with other than Windows. Business laptops and workstations
are another story, but again, the potential number of Linux PC systems
they could sell is very small in contrast to Windows in the US market.
Compaq had a dispensation from Microsoft in their business systems
since they owned both Digital and Tandem. Dell found a way around
selling Windows installed systems by selling systems with no OS or just
DRDOS.  I have no idea what their contracts are with Microsoft,
especially when you factor in discounts. HP did provide some laptops
with Linux installed, but they gave up because the volume was too
small. It cost them more per system than it did for the equivalent
Windows box.

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[Jerry Feldman-2]

On Mon, 23 Jun 2008 17:26:27 -0700
"Kristian Erik Hermansen" <kristian.hermansen@...> wrote:

> +1 on Thinkpads: All of them I have owned worked great with Linux (at
> least 5 different models)...
> -1 on HP: They have all sucked for me with Linux (at least 3 different
> models)...

Just one more thing is that my experience at installfests is that:
1. Thinkpads usually work well with Linux. I've never had a problem. I
have seen some issues others have had with wireless on the T41s.

2. HP. There have been a lot of issues with HP systems, mainly with the
broadcom chips. Most of the time we get the wireless working.

3. Dell. I don't know if it is just me being anti-Dell, but nearly
every Dell I've encountered at the installfests have had some other
issues. In some cases we couldn't install from DVD. I guess Dell and I
have bad karma :-)
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[Robert Krawitz-2]

   Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2008 14:09:01 -0400
   From: Jerry Feldman <gaf@...>

   On Mon, 23 Jun 2008 17:26:27 -0700
   "Kristian Erik Hermansen" <kristian.hermansen@...> wrote:

   > +1 on Thinkpads: All of them I have owned worked great with Linux (at
   > least 5 different models)...
   > -1 on HP: They have all sucked for me with Linux (at least 3 different
   > models)...

   Just one more thing is that my experience at installfests is that:
   1. Thinkpads usually work well with Linux. I've never had a problem. I
   have seen some issues others have had with wireless on the T41s.=20

   2. HP. There have been a lot of issues with HP systems, mainly with the
   broadcom chips. Most of the time we get the wireless working.=20

   3. Dell. I don't know if it is just me being anti-Dell, but nearly
   every Dell I've encountered at the installfests have had some other
   issues. In some cases we couldn't install from DVD. I guess Dell and I
   have bad karma :-)

On my own sample size of 3 (Inspiron 8000, 8200, and 9400), I've
generally found it to be not much of a problem.

My own installation on my 9400 was a breeze.  I made sure to get an
Intel wireless card and an ATI graphics card which is supported (in
2D) by the radeon driver.

My installation was complicated by my method of procedure.  I wanted
to clone the installation from the 8200 onto the 9400 so I wouldn't
have to reproduce all the config files and such.  I wound up
installing a bare bones OpenSUSE 10.3 onto one partition, copying the
bits from the 8200 onto the 9400, and then using the new installation
to bootstrap the old one (get the modules right and all that).  I
started copying the 150'ish GB off last night after doing the initial
bootstrap install, and then this morning it took me only about half an
hour to get things right on the clone partition (the one I really
want).  Mostly, that was deleting and recreating the network and sound
drivers.

I had to fiddle with the X configuration a bit, since the latest
radeon driver seems to want to use the actual panel size (dimensions,
not just pixels) reported by the LCD over what I tell it in the
xorg.conf file, which results in getting enormous fonts.  I have a
WUXGA 17" display; it's actually about 133 DPI but I want to tell X
that it's 72 DPI to get small enough fonts since I have very good
eyesight at typical reading distances.  I also had to fiddle with it
to get the external display adapter working (and it only works under
X), which always worked just fine on the 8200.  Most people wouldn't
care about that kind of stuff.

The font defaults on most systems look like they were designed for
kids who are just learning how to read or for people with poor
eyesight.  When it's hard to change them globally, it becomes a real
nuisance.

--
Robert Krawitz                                     <rlk@...>

Tall Clubs International  --  http://www.tall.org/ or 1-888-IM-TALL-2
Member of the League for Programming Freedom -- mail lpf@...
Project lead for Gutenprint   --    http://gimp-print.sourceforge.net

"Linux doesn't dictate how I work, I dictate how Linux works."
--Eric Crampton

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