Konqueror Flash

[arnaudv6]

Good afternoon dear konqueror developpers !
Konqueror is my favorite brownser and a tool I love,
I thank and congratulate you for developing it !
Nevertheless, I still wonder why we don't simply
implement existing solutions such as firefox's "nsplugin viewer"
to properly support flash, as it should be :
no need to re-invent the wheel !
Maybe Safari's improvements to the webkit could be used too,
in order to support flash, and even pass acid3 test ?
Thanks for developping that fast, and with such energy !
Hope I do not feel too stupid to you, just try to help.
Arnaud Vallette d'Osia, France

arnaudv6@... wrote:
>Nevertheless, I still wonder why we don't simply
>implement existing solutions such as firefox's "nsplugin viewer"
>to properly support flash, as it should be :
>no need to re-invent the wheel !

nspluginviewer is a Konqueror external tool, not a Firefox one. It has
supported Flash for years, when it was still made by Macromedia.

Recently, though, Adobe has broken Flash and introduced weird code that
makes it crash. It's not our fault and our developers are trying very
hard to solve those issues. Which, without access to the source code or
cooperation from inside Adobe, is a very thankless job.

--
  Thiago Macieira  -  thiago (AT) macieira.info - thiago (AT) kde.org
    PGP/GPG: 0x6EF45358; fingerprint:
    E067 918B B660 DBD1 105C  966C 33F5 F005 6EF4 5358

[Dave Feustel-2]

On Mon, Jul 07, 2008 at 09:27:27AM -0300, Thiago Macieira wrote:

> arnaudv6@... wrote:
> >Nevertheless, I still wonder why we don't simply
> >implement existing solutions such as firefox's "nsplugin viewer"
> >to properly support flash, as it should be :
> >no need to re-invent the wheel !
>
> nspluginviewer is a Konqueror external tool, not a Firefox one. It has
> supported Flash for years, when it was still made by Macromedia.
>
> Recently, though, Adobe has broken Flash and introduced weird code that
> makes it crash. It's not our fault and our developers are trying very
> hard to solve those issues. Which, without access to the source code or
> cooperation from inside Adobe, is a very thankless job.

Well, I for one would like to thank you and the KDE development team for
producing KDE and Konqueror. I have had to switch temporarily to Firefox
from Konqueror because of problems with KDE on OpenBSD on 4.3. Having
used both Firefox 2 and 3, I can assure you, that while Firefox is not
bad, Konqueror is my favorite browser by a long shot. I'm looking
forward to using KDE4.

Thanks Again for all your Great Work!
Dave Feustel

2008/7/7 Thiago Macieira <thiago@...>:

> arnaudv6@... wrote:
>>Nevertheless, I still wonder why we don't simply
>>implement existing solutions such as firefox's "nsplugin viewer"
>>to properly support flash, as it should be :
>>no need to re-invent the wheel !
>
> nspluginviewer is a Konqueror external tool, not a Firefox one. It has
> supported Flash for years, when it was still made by Macromedia.
>
> Recently, though, Adobe has broken Flash and introduced weird code that
> makes it crash. It's not our fault and our developers are trying very
> hard to solve those issues. Which, without access to the source code or
> cooperation from inside Adobe, is a very thankless job.

nspluginviewer is the problem, not the Adobe plugin. The npplayer
backend from kmplayer
http://websvn.kde.org/trunk/extragear/multimedia/kmplayer/src/npplayer.c?view=log
is imo pretty clean code and the only thing that might be considered
as hacky is the NpObject to javascript mapping.
Almost the exact code runs on Maemo
http://kmplayer.garage.maemo.org/flash.png only without the javascript
part.
Never had any crash that wasn't the fault of my code.

Compare that to nspluginviewer, which tries to be a Xt and Gtk
application without doing proper initialiasation, at least for the
latter. That code is one big hack.

Koos

[Lubos Lunak]

On Monday 07 of July 2008, koos vriezen wrote:
> 2008/7/7 Thiago Macieira <thiago@...>:
> > Recently, though, Adobe has broken Flash and introduced weird code that
> > makes it crash. It's not our fault and our developers are trying very
> > hard to solve those issues. Which, without access to the source code or
> > cooperation from inside Adobe, is a very thankless job.
>
> nspluginviewer is the problem, not the Adobe plugin.

 Regardless of what one may think about nspluginviewer, the Adobe plugin is a
problem.

> The npplayer backend from kmplayer
> http://websvn.kde.org/trunk/extragear/multimedia/kmplayer/src/npplayer.c?vi
>ew=log is imo pretty clean code and the only thing that might be considered
> as hacky is the NpObject to javascript mapping.
> Almost the exact code runs on Maemo
> http://kmplayer.garage.maemo.org/flash.png only without the javascript
> part.
> Never had any crash that wasn't the fault of my code.

 I seriously doubt that, or you don't get the XtRemoveTimeout() crash that
happens for everything that does not claim to be Firefox?

 But anyway, if you're so convinced it's better than nspluginviewer, why don't
you simply suggest replacing it? If it really is better, I don't think
anybody would mind.

> Compare that to nspluginviewer, which tries to be a Xt and Gtk
> application without doing proper initialiasation, at least for the
> latter. That code is one big hack.


--
Lubos Lunak
KDE developer
--------------------------------------------------------------
SUSE LINUX, s.r.o.   e-mail: l.lunak@... , l.lunak@...
Lihovarska 1060/12   tel: [phone]
190 00 Prague 9      fax: [phone]
Czech Republic       http://www.suse.cz

2008/7/8, Lubos Lunak <l.lunak@...>:

>  I seriously doubt that, or you don't get the XtRemoveTimeout() crash that
>  happens for everything that does not claim to be Firefox?

I have no Xt support, only Gtk. Apparently Adobe > 9 beta's don't need it.

Br

Koos

2008/7/8 koos vriezen <koos.vriezen@...>:
> 2008/7/8, Lubos Lunak <l.lunak@...>:
>
>>  I seriously doubt that, or you don't get the XtRemoveTimeout() crash that
>>  happens for everything that does not claim to be Firefox?
>
> I have no Xt support, only Gtk. Apparently Adobe > 9 beta's don't need it.

Took a quick look at this and knpplayer returns NPNVGtk2 for NPNVToolkit.

nspluginviewer returns (NPNToolkitType)0xFEEDABEE with this comment:
        // This is messy. OSS things want to see "Gtk2" here;
         // but commercial flash works better if we return something else.
         // So we return a KHTML classic, since we can work with
         // the community members far easier.

Your other comment:
> But anyway, if you're so convinced it's better than nspluginviewer, why don't
> you simply suggest replacing it? If it really is better, I don't think
> anybody would mind.

I'm not convinced it's better, I just claimed that the Adobe plugin
isn't crashy if used cleanly.

Just from the top of my head what knpplayer is failing. The KIO
intergration needs to be fixed (is currently based on stdio streaming
from the kpart, should be getting it's data directly from the slaves
or use something else), haven't looked at anything else but the swfdec
mozilla plugin (obviously the old Xt versions will not work), the kcm
configuration from konqueror plugins isn't used at all, all the tweaks
that went into nsplugin over the years needs to be reviewed etc.
Fits currently very well in the extra-gear idea imo.

Br
Koos