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Keeping more up to date than Lenny, safely?
Hi. Im running Lenny on two computers, and have been very happy with it. Nothings ever really been broken, so i dont think that a "stable"
version is necessary for what i need.
I dont really want to go "unstable"--the name alone scares me--but at the same time i read the release notes for the new Ubuntu beta, and its
really nice. I *want* Gnome 2.24 (the auto XRandR thing is especially nice, ive always wanted multi-head but am skeered to mess with my xorg.conf). I _want_ the new version of Network Manager. Etcetera.
Is there any way to get this, but without the risk of the system breaking every other day? I dont want my life to be about managing the system,
but im willing to have a little inconvenience in return for more up to date features.
Thanks!
Jen
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RE: Keeping more up to date than Lenny, safely?
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Learn more about Nabble's security policy.
Hi,
I think the simplest / safest thing to do is to use a live CD which has the new bits you are interested in and try them out. This way you keep your systems as is for now and can simply reboot to Debian Lenny when you need something more complete.
If Ubuntu Beta interests you try http://releases.ubuntu.com/intrepid/ you can create a live CD and try it.
Here are a few other links that might interest you:
Garnome - a build system http://www.gnome.org/projects/garnome/
GNOME distros and versions http://www.gnome.org/~davyd/footware.shtml-- Lalit Dhiri Linux the root to no GPFs
> Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2008 09:40:13 -0700 > From: bg271828@...> Subject: Keeping more up to date than Lenny, safely? > To: debian-user@...> > Hi. Im running Lenny on two computers, and have been very happy with it. Nothings ever really been broken, so i dont think that a "stable" > version is necessary for what i need. > > I dont really want to go "unstable"--the name alone scares me--but at the same time i read the release notes for the new Ubuntu beta, and its > really nice. I *want* Gnome 2.24 (the auto XRandR thing is especially nice, ive always wanted multi-head but am skeered to mess with my xorg.conf). I _want_ the new version of Network Manager. Etcetera. > > Is there any way to get this, but without the risk of the system breaking every other day? I dont want my life to be about managing the system, > but im willing to have a little inconvenience in return for more up to date features. > > Thanks! > > Jen > > > > > > -- > To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-REQUEST@... > with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@...>
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Re: Keeping more up to date than Lenny, safely?
"Dr. Jennifer Nussbaum" < bg271828@...> writes:
>
> I dont really want to go "unstable"--the name alone scares me--but at
> the same time i read the release notes for the new Ubuntu beta, and
> its really nice. I *want* Gnome 2.24 (the auto XRandR thing is
> especially nice, ive always wanted multi-head but am skeered to mess
> with my xorg.conf). I _want_ the new version of Network Manager.
> Etcetera.
>
> Is there any way to get this, but without the risk of the system
> breaking every other day? I dont want my life to be about managing the
> system, but im willing to have a little inconvenience in return for
> more up to date features.
>
As I understand it, if there's something you really want, you've got
four options:
You can temporarily enable unstable, install the package you're after,
and then remove unstable again. I do this on very rare occasions, and
only for packages that are pretty much self contained. If I see the
package is pulling in a lot of new dependencies, or updating anything on
my existing system, I cancel the operation and move on to other options.
This is really not recommended.
You can download the sources and compile yourself. Again, this is best
only for things that don't require updating dependencies. Since it's a
bit more work, it's not worth doing for anything that you don't both
need and understand well enough to trouble shoot compilation problems.
You can upgrade to unstable, with all that that entails. (lots of people
seem to run unstable without too much trouble, but I don't)
You can wait ;)
Cheers,
Tyler
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Re: Keeping more up to date than Lenny, safely?
On 10/06/08 11:40, Dr. Jennifer Nussbaum wrote:
> Hi. Im running Lenny on two computers, and have been very happy
with it. Nothings ever really been broken, so i dont think that a
"stable"
> version is necessary for what i need.
>
> I dont really want to go "unstable"--the name alone scares
> me--
Repeat the Litany Against Fear as often as needed:
I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing.
Only I will remain.
> but at the same time i read the release notes for the new
> Ubuntu beta, and its really nice. I *want* Gnome 2.24 (the auto
Unstable is at GNOME v2.22.5
> XRandR thing is especially nice, ive always wanted multi-head
> but am skeered to mess with my xorg.conf). I _want_ the new
> version of Network Manager. Etcetera.
s/Manager/Mangler
> Is there any way to get this, but without the risk of the system
> breaking every other day?
You want unrisky cutting-edge software?
> I dont want my life to be about managing
> the system,
Like what? Using Sid/Unstable, I rarely "administer" my system.
> but im willing to have a little inconvenience in
> return for more up to date features.
Find a released distro that has GNOME 2.24. (I'm not being
flippant, but am totally serious. Many people change distros on a
regular basis.)
--
Ron Johnson, Jr.
Jefferson LA USA
"Do not bite at the bait of pleasure till you know there is no
hook beneath it." -- Thomas Jefferson
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Re: Keeping more up to date than Lenny, safely?
On Mon, Oct 6, 2008 at 9:40 AM, Dr. Jennifer Nussbaum
< bg271828@...> wrote:
> Hi. Im running Lenny on two computers, and have been very happy with it. Nothings ever really been broken, so i dont think that a "stable"
> version is necessary for what i need.
Well, you might take a look at sidux, then. It's sid, but repackaged.
I have it running in a virtualbox guest - my main OS these days is
Ubuntu Hardy (used to be on lenny, but I switched in may when I went
to a 64 bit platform.)
> I dont really want to go "unstable"--the name alone scares me--but at the same time i read the release notes for the new Ubuntu beta, and its
> really nice. I *want* Gnome 2.24 (the auto XRandR thing is especially nice, ive always wanted multi-head but am
It might be OK - other than that bad e1000 bug, but that doesn't
bother me, as I have no e1000 hardware :). You might take a look at
intrepid - the beta is out. I also have that booting, but not yet
installed, in a virtual box. My plans are to wait until the end of
October and then do dist-upgrade (or do-release-upgrade, or whatever
the upgrade procedure is on Ubuntu).
>skeered to mess with my xorg.conf). I _want_ the new version of Network Manager. Etcetera.
I didn't bother with that when I upgraded. I copied the
/etc/network/interfaces and xorg.conf files from my working debian
lenny setup (well, kind of working - I had /var on a separate small
hard drive and my new motherboard only could hold 2 ide devices, and I
had three, so something had to get yanked).
> Is there any way to get this, but without the risk of the system breaking every other day? I dont want my life to be about managing the system,
I haven't actually ran sid, but I don't think there is any reason it
should break every day, but the upgrades come by pretty fast.
At least there is a buffer in lenny so that much gets triaged before
it can enter into testing from unstable (or is lenny actually stable
now?). Some packages sit waiting for things to get done from time to
time. I've run debian testing since about Nov 2006 - before it was
even Etch.
> Jen
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Re: Keeping more up to date than Lenny, safely?
> On 10/06/08 11:40, Dr. Jennifer Nussbaum wrote:
>> Hi. Im running Lenny on two computers, and have been very happy
> with it. Nothings ever really been broken, so i dont think that a
> "stable"
>> version is necessary for what i need.
>>
>> I dont really want to go "unstable"--the name alone scares
>> me--
Do "testing" and pull in gcc and the build tool chain from "unstable".
You may want to use an unstable kernel from time to time, so pull a new
one (and the dependencies) in from unstable after it goes through at
least two point revisions.
Don't run a heavily mixed testing+unstable system, (you can seriously
break your system) but one or two items from unstable usually doesn't
cause much trouble. If the one you want won't install due dependency
problems, then be patient and it will float up to testing in due course,
either back-ported or with the dependencies moving to testing as well.
(and get to know www.backports.org)
That is really the main thing I fear doing this: the chance of breaking
the dependency graph and having to de-install the package by hand.
Fixing the Debian apt/dpkg database afterward may not be trivial,
although $apt-get -f install helps some of the time.
Ron Johnson wrote:
>> but at the same time i read the release notes for the new
> > Ubuntu beta, and its really nice. I *want* Gnome 2.24 (the auto
>
> Unstable is at GNOME v2.22.5
Unstable (or Sid) has been at 2.23 for a short while, and is already
transitioning to 2.24.
>
> > XRandR thing is especially nice, ive always wanted multi-head
> > but am skeered to mess with my xorg.conf). I _want_ the new
>> version of Network Manager. Etcetera.
>
> s/Manager/Mangler
>
>> Is there any way to get this, but without the risk of the system
> > breaking every other day?
>
Uh, no. Well, Sidux. Or an Ubuntu beta.
>> I dont want my life to be about managing
>> the system,
Then you should probably run stable.
>> but im willing to have a little inconvenience in
>> return for more up to date features.
Testing, after the release of lenny.
Mark Allums
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Re: Keeping more up to date than Lenny, safely?
Ron Johnson wrote:
> On 10/06/08 11:40, Dr. Jennifer Nussbaum wrote:
>> Hi. Im running Lenny on two computers, and have been very happy
> with it. Nothings ever really been broken, so i dont think that a
> "stable"
>> version is necessary for what i need.
>>
>> I dont really want to go "unstable"--the name alone scares
>> me--
>
> Repeat the Litany Against Fear as often as needed:
>
> I must not fear.
> Fear is the mind-killer.
> Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
> I will face my fear.
> I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
> And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
> Where the fear has gone there will be nothing.
> Only I will remain.
>
While he's beeing tested with the Gom Jabbar or just before?
/Magnus
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Re: Keeping more up to date than Lenny, safely?
On 10/07/08 11:48, Magnus Pedersen wrote:
> Ron Johnson wrote:
>> On 10/06/08 11:40, Dr. Jennifer Nussbaum wrote:
>>> Hi. Im running Lenny on two computers, and have been very happy
>> with it. Nothings ever really been broken, so i dont think that a
>> "stable"
>>> version is necessary for what i need.
>>>
>>> I dont really want to go "unstable"--the name alone scares
>>> me--
>>
>> Repeat the Litany Against Fear as often as needed:
>>
>> I must not fear.
>> Fear is the mind-killer.
>> Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
>> I will face my fear.
>> I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
>> And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
>> Where the fear has gone there will be nothing.
>> Only I will remain.
>>
> While he's beeing tested with the Gom Jabbar or just before?
(OP is a "she".)
Anyway, the mere act of using Debian is proof enough of Humanity...
--
Ron Johnson, Jr.
Jefferson LA USA
"Do not bite at the bait of pleasure till you know there is no
hook beneath it." -- Thomas Jefferson
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Re: Keeping more up to date than Lenny, safely?
Ron Johnson wrote:
>>> Repeat the Litany Against Fear as often as needed:
>>>
>>> I must not fear.
>>> Fear is the mind-killer.
>>> Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
>>> I will face my fear.
>>> I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
>>> And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
>>> Where the fear has gone there will be nothing.
>>> Only I will remain.
>>>
>> While he's beeing tested with the Gom Jabbar or just before?
>
> (OP is a "she".)
So she is, my bad, I'm very sorry.
>
> Anyway, the mere act of using Debian is proof enough of Humanity...
>
You might be right, but who knows if that will satisfy the Bene Gesserit
witches.
I've better sign of before we venture even more OT
/Magnus
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Re: Keeping more up to date than Lenny, safely?
Ron Johnson wrote:
> On 10/06/08 11:40, Dr. Jennifer Nussbaum wrote:
>> Hi. Im running Lenny on two computers, and have been very happy
> with it. Nothings ever really been broken, so i dont think that a
> "stable"
>> version is necessary for what i need.
>>
>> I dont really want to go "unstable"--the name alone scares
>> me--
>
> Repeat the Litany Against Fear as often as needed:
>
> I must not fear.
> Fear is the mind-killer.
> Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
> I will face my fear.
> I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
> And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
> Where the fear has gone there will be nothing.
> Only I will remain.
>
"I" will be gone too because that is where the fear originates...
Which is not scary after all...
Hugo
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Re: Keeping more up to date than Lenny, safely?
> Ron Johnson wrote:
>>> but at the same time i read the release notes for the new
>>> Ubuntu beta, and its really nice. I *want* Gnome 2.24 (the auto
>>
>> Unstable is at GNOME v2.22.5
I said:
>
> Unstable (or Sid) has been at 2.23 for a short while, and is already
> transitioning to 2.24.
Let me clarify this a bit:
On my system, if one pulls down the About box for GNOME, it says 2.22.
However, if one looks at the files installed, quite a few of them are at
2.23. A few have started trickling in that are at 2.24. So it is fair
to say that GNOME is in the middle of a transition. I would like it if
it happened a bit faster, but I have no major complaints.
MArk Allums
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Re: Keeping more up to date than Lenny, safely?
On 2008-10-06 18:40, Dr. Jennifer Nussbaum wrote:
> Hi. Im running Lenny on two computers, and have been very happy with
> it. Nothings ever really been broken, so i dont think that a "stable"
> version is necessary for what i need.
>
> I dont really want to go "unstable"--the name alone scares me--but at
> the same time i read the release notes for the new Ubuntu beta, and
> its really nice. I *want* Gnome 2.24 (the auto XRandR thing is
> especially nice, ive always wanted multi-head but am skeered to mess
> with my xorg.conf). I _want_ the new version of Network Manager.
> Etcetera.
>
> Is there any way to get this, but without the risk of the system
> breaking every other day? I dont want my life to be about managing
> the system, but im willing to have a little inconvenience in return
> for more up to date features.
Just wait a little while and lenny will become stable (noone knows when
this will happen exactly (released when ready) but the RC count is going
down). Then stick with testing. After the lifting of the freeze with the
release of lenny, all the new software will start entering testing much
more quickly than now.
After all, noone can take the decision between 'bleeding edge, unstable
and changing all the time' and 'tested and stable' for you, but debian
at least offers several levels in between:
stable, backports, testing, unstable, experimental...
YMMV, good luck ;-)
Johannes
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Re: Keeping more up to date than Lenny, safely?
Hi,
On Tue, Oct 14, 2008 at 08:40:25AM -0500, Mark Allums wrote:
>
>> Ron Johnson wrote:
>
>>>> but at the same time i read the release notes for the new
>>>> Ubuntu beta, and its really nice. I *want* Gnome 2.24 (the auto
>>>
>>> Unstable is at GNOME v2.22.5
>
> I said:
>
>>
>> Unstable (or Sid) has been at 2.23 for a short while, and is already
>> transitioning to 2.24.
????
> Let me clarify this a bit:
>
> On my system, if one pulls down the About box for GNOME, it says 2.22.
> However, if one looks at the files installed, quite a few of them are at
> 2.23. A few have started trickling in that are at 2.24. So it is fair
> to say that GNOME is in the middle of a transition. I would like it if
> it happened a bit faster, but I have no major complaints.
I think you must have some complicated apt line... (maybe with some
experimental or external sites)
I do not see 2.24 in my sid box. Source Package gnome-desktop:
* sarge (x11): 2.8.3-2
Binary packages: gnome-about, gnome-desktop-data, libgnome-desktop-2, libgnome-desktop-dev
* etch (x11): 2.14.3-2
Binary packages: gnome-about, gnome-desktop-data, libgnome-desktop-2, libgnome-desktop-dev
* etch-m68k (x11): 2.14.3-2
Binary packages: gnome-about, gnome-desktop-data, libgnome-desktop-2, libgnome-desktop-dev
* lenny (x11): 2.22.3-2
Binary packages: gnome-about, gnome-desktop-data, libgnome-desktop-2, libgnome-desktop-dev
* sid (x11): 2.22.3-2
Binary packages: gnome-about, gnome-desktop-data, libgnome-desktop-2, libgnome-desktop-dev
We at Debian are in freeze mode. So we do not update packages randomly
in unstable. Our focus is next release. This is how Debian works.
Osamu
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Re: Keeping more up to date than Lenny, safely?
Revisiting an old thread, for a correction. Cutting and pasting other
conversations:
Ron Johnson wrote:
OP: >> but at the same time i read the release notes for the new
OP: >> Ubuntu beta, and its really nice. I *want* Gnome 2.24 (the auto
> Unstable is at GNOME v2.22.5
> Find a released distro that has GNOME 2.24. (I'm not being flippant,
> but am totally serious. Many people change distros on a regular basis.)
> On 10/21/08 09:05, Mark Allums wrote:
>> First, sorry for bugging you, I wanted your opinion.
[snip]
>> Basically, I think I was wrong about GNOME being in transition to
>> 2.24
>> from 2.22 in Debian. I must have been thinking of something else at
>> the time. (*I* have some elements of 2.23 on my system, but it's not
>> from Debian. I think. Sigh. "Senior moments" in my early forties.)
>>
>> Remember when I asked you to call me on it when I am out of my head
>> about something? This may have been one of those times it needed
>> doing. It could well have puzzled some folks, and certainly misled
>> the OP.
[snip]
> We can't reply to, nor know, everything. For all I knew, Debian Sid
> *might* have been in the midst of a GNOME 2.24 transition.
>
> Although I'd be surprised, given the push to get Lenny out, which is
> why
> OOo3 is will sit in Experimental for a while.
Debian does *not* have 2.24 available as a Debian package. I was wrong.
Mark Allums
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GNOME 2.24, was: Re: Keeping more up to date than Lenny, safely?
Ron Johnson wrote:
> OP: >> but at the same time i read the release notes for the new
> OP: >> Ubuntu beta, and its really nice. I *want* Gnome 2.24 (the auto
>
>> Unstable is at GNOME v2.22.5
>
>> Find a released distro that has GNOME 2.24. (I'm not being flippant,
>> but am totally serious. Many people change distros on a regular basis.)
Somebody wrote:
>> Debian Sid
>> *might* have been in the midst of a GNOME 2.24 transition.
>>
>> Although I'd be surprised, given the push to get Lenny out, which is
>> why OOo3 is will sit in Experimental for a while.
>
>
>
> Debian does *not* have 2.24 available as a Debian package. I was wrong.
Parts of GNOME 2.24 have entered Experimental now, for those who are
interested.
Mark Allums
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Re: GNOME 2.24, was: Re: Keeping more up to date than Lenny, safely?
2008/10/24 Mark Allums < mark@...>:
> Parts of GNOME 2.24 have entered Experimental now, for those who are
> interested.
hi, how long does it take to get the 2.24 in the Debian Testing version?
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Re: GNOME 2.24, was: Re: Keeping more up to date than Lenny, safely?
spacemarc:
> 2008/10/24 Mark Allums < mark@...>:
>>
>> Parts of GNOME 2.24 have entered Experimental now, for those who are
>> interested.
>
> hi, how long does it take to get the 2.24 in the Debian Testing version?
Probably a few weeks after lenny has been released as stable.
J.
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