KOffice bugday

Hi there,

I was chatting with blauzahl on IRC about an official Bugday for KOffice and
she suggested I send this mail and doing a formal request.

So here it is: Can you pleeeeease do a bugday for KOffice and triage our old
bugs?  :-)  Since we have just released the first beta, it would be very well
timed.  

This mail is addressed both to koffice-devel and bugsquad to start the
discussion.  I expect blauzahl to answer this and outline how the bugsquad
works and the koffice people to answer about what needs to be done.

        -Inge
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On Mon, Sep 29, 2008 at 8:03 PM, Inge Wallin <inge@...> wrote:
> Hi there,
>
> I was chatting with blauzahl on IRC about an official Bugday for KOffice and
> she suggested I send this mail and doing a formal request.
>
> So here it is: Can you pleeeeease do a bugday for KOffice and triage our old
> bugs?  :-)  Since we have just released the first beta, it would be very well
> timed.

I'll leave it for others to comment more on this, but one thing I will
point out is that during a typical bug day, we get through about
250-300 bugs. Looking at statistics for open bugs, I see that KWord
has 291 open bugs, so this would probably take an entire bug day
itself. I think we are going to be looking at a series of KOffice bug
days rather than just one :).

George

--
George Goldberg
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> On Monday 29 September 2008 21:54:55 George Goldberg wrote:
> > On Mon, Sep 29, 2008 at 8:03 PM, Inge Wallin <inge@...> wrote:
> > > I was chatting with blauzahl on IRC about an official Bugday for KOffice
> > > and she suggested I send this mail and doing a formal request.
> > > So here it is: Can you pleeeeease do a bugday for KOffice and triage our
> > > old bugs?  :-)  Since we have just released the first beta, it would be
> > > very well timed.

I didn't expect such direct invoking... So consider me trolled, even though
I'm not sure there is much I can say.

> > I'll leave it for others to comment more on this, but one thing I will
> > point out is that during a typical bug day, we get through about
> > 250-300 bugs. Looking at statistics for open bugs, I see that KWord
> > has 291 open bugs, so this would probably take an entire bug day
> > itself. I think we are going to be looking at a series of KOffice bug
> > days rather than just one :).
>
> I guess it depends on what the koffice people think should be triaged the most.
> Taking into account our current (wo)manpower I think we should do one or two
> bugdays for koffice and see how much we get done with - much like we did with
> konqueror, kmail and kdepim so far.

There is something satisfying about being able to say that you've gone through
all of an application's bugs. Like with kopete.

Inge suggested that kword mattered most, but probably we should leave it up
to all their devs to argue^w decide. So I put the koffice-devel cc: back in. ;)

>
> I think "jumping" between triaged applications keeps it interesting and maybe
> also helps to gain more people who help with triaging. In my opinion that's
> more important than "finishing" triaging an application. After all each triaged
> bug helps.

Boredom is bad. But I suspect we could finish kword in one "day".

I know the schedule was revised, but I thought we had some blank days in it.
When were they?

And speaking of "days", tommorrow evening I plan on doing some of the kdepim
day triage, so if you want to join in but couldn't on Sunday, and you like
the company, drop into #kde-bugs and see if I'm around.

Alex
(blauzahl)
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On Tue, Sep 30, 2008 at 8:27 AM, Michael Leupold <lemma@...> wrote:

> On Monday 29 September 2008 21:03:40 Inge Wallin wrote:
>> I was chatting with blauzahl on IRC about an official Bugday for KOffice
>> and she suggested I send this mail and doing a formal request.
>> So here it is: Can you pleeeeease do a bugday for KOffice and triage our
>> old bugs?  :-)  Since we have just released the first beta, it would be
>> very well timed.
>
> I like the idea. Doing different applications all the time makes it more
> interesting after all :)
>
> @George: Any free dates?

Looking at the schedule we drew up, the KDE-Pim bug day we just had
was one of the "free dates". So, that means the next one is in 6
weeks, on November 9th. imho, thats too far away, so since the next
two bug days are scheduled for Konqueror (12th and 26th October), I
propose that we scrap one (or both, depending on how many days KOffice
devs want) and replace them with KOffice Bug Days.

@Koffice-devel: do you think we should have one or two bug days, based
on my previous email?

@Everyone: any objection to scrapping one or both of the upcoming
Konqueror bug days to do KOffice instead?


George
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On Monday 29. September 2008 21:54:55 George Goldberg wrote:

> On Mon, Sep 29, 2008 at 8:03 PM, Inge Wallin <inge@...> wrote:
> > Hi there,
> >
> > I was chatting with blauzahl on IRC about an official Bugday for KOffice
> > and she suggested I send this mail and doing a formal request.
> >
> > So here it is: Can you pleeeeease do a bugday for KOffice and triage our
> > old bugs?  :-)  Since we have just released the first beta, it would be
> > very well timed.
>
> I'll leave it for others to comment more on this, but one thing I will
> point out is that during a typical bug day, we get through about
> 250-300 bugs. Looking at statistics for open bugs, I see that KWord
> has 291 open bugs, so this would probably take an entire bug day
> itself. I think we are going to be looking at a series of KOffice bug
> days rather than just one :).

In general I have been keeping the KWord bugs database relatively clean, most
of the 291 bugs are for known issues like tables, spell checking etc.
The problem here is that some whole chunks of functionality are not yet added
in KWord2 yet and I don't want to close a bug that will still be useful to
check we have not forgotten anything when that new functionality does get
(re)added.
This would explain why there are so many open bugs for KWord :)

So I think that that if you focus only on kword bugs that were reported in the
last 4 months and/or are crashers we are good.
This means we limit the amount of bugs in kword to no more than 40 for you
guys to look at.

In response to your other mail i would then think one bugday should be enough.
--
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> On Monday 29. September 2008 21:54:55 George Goldberg wrote:
> > I'll leave it for others to comment more on this, but one thing I will
> > point out is that during a typical bug day, we get through about
> > 250-300 bugs. Looking at statistics for open bugs, I see that KWord
> > has 291 open bugs, so this would probably take an entire bug day
> > itself. I think we are going to be looking at a series of KOffice bug
> > days rather than just one :).

Well, if it is well triaged, then is this the best use of our resources?
Inge suggested that kword was most important, what about the other apps?
There seem to be a zillion, and there seems to be no easy way to get a bug
count on them all. Partly because I'm not sure what they all are. ;)

Can the people who deal with the other components tell
us how well triaged they think their bugs are?

> In general I have been keeping the KWord bugs database relatively clean, mo
> st
> of the 291 bugs are for known issues like tables, spell checking etc.
> The problem here is that some whole chunks of functionality are not yet added
> in KWord2 yet and I don't want to close a bug that will still be useful to
> check we have not forgotten anything when that new functionality does get
> (re)added.
> This would explain why there are so many open bugs for KWord :)
>
> So I think that that if you focus only on kword bugs that were reported in
> the last 4 months and/or are crashers we are good.
> This means we limit the amount of bugs in kword to no more than 40 for you
> guys to look at.
>
> Thomas Zander

40 isn't very much. One slightly bored person could do that very quickly. ;)

Alex
A. L. Spehr
(blauzahl)
i'm probably too asleep to trust myself to send any list an email... oh well

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On Tue, Sep 30, 2008 at 5:24 PM,  <zahl+kde@...> wrote:
> Well, if it is well triaged, then is this the best use of our resources?
> Inge suggested that kword was most important, what about the other apps?
> There seem to be a zillion, and there seems to be no easy way to get a bug
> count on them all. Partly because I'm not sure what they all are. ;)

Here is a list of the apps released as part of the recent KOffice
beta. I'd appreciate if their developers/maintainers could fill in on
how well triaged their bugs currently are.

KWord - 290 bugs - ~40 need triaging.
KSpread - 101 bugs - ??? need triaging.
KPresenter - 57 bugs - ??? need triaging.
KPlato - 6 bugs - ??? need triaging.
Karbon - 16 bugs - ??? need triaging.
Krita - 64 bugs - ??? need triaging.

So far, that puts us on a maximum of about 280 bugs that need
triaging. If the other apps apart from KWord reckon that their bugs
are all disorderly and all need to be triaged, then I think we are
looking at one bug day here. If some of the apps are in the same
situation as KWord where many of the bugs are in good order and need
not be revisited, then I think perhaps we would do better to have a
smaller-scale "bug evening" or extra bug day since there wouldn't be a
huge amount of work to do.

KOffice developers/maintainers: please fill in the ??? above.

thanks,

--
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On Tue, 30 Sep 2008, George Goldberg wrote:

> Krita - 64 bugs - ??? need triaging.
>
> So far, that puts us on a maximum of about 280 bugs that need
> triaging. If the other apps apart from KWord reckon that their bugs
> are all disorderly and all need to be triaged, then I think we are
> looking at one bug day here. If some of the apps are in the same
> situation as KWord where many of the bugs are in good order and need
> not be revisited, then I think perhaps we would do better to have a
> smaller-scale "bug evening" or extra bug day since there wouldn't be a
> huge amount of work to do.
>
> KOffice developers/maintainers: please fill in the ??? above.
>

I had a quick look through krita's bugs today, and I think it would be
very helpful to triage most of our bugs, at least the ones that weren't
added by developers. I'm afraid personal circumstances these past six or
seven months have made me rather sloppy :-(

Boudewijn

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On Tuesday 30 September 2008 18:40:21 George Goldberg wrote:

> On Tue, Sep 30, 2008 at 5:24 PM,  <zahl+kde@...> wrote:
> > Well, if it is well triaged, then is this the best use of our resources?
> > Inge suggested that kword was most important, what about the other apps?
> > There seem to be a zillion, and there seems to be no easy way to get a
> > bug count on them all. Partly because I'm not sure what they all are. ;)
>
> Here is a list of the apps released as part of the recent KOffice
> beta. I'd appreciate if their developers/maintainers could fill in on
> how well triaged their bugs currently are.
>
> KWord - 290 bugs - ~40 need triaging.
> KSpread - 101 bugs - ??? need triaging.
> KPresenter - 57 bugs - ??? need triaging.
> KPlato - 6 bugs - ??? need triaging.
> Karbon - 16 bugs - ??? need triaging.
> Krita - 64 bugs - ??? need triaging.
>
> So far, that puts us on a maximum of about 280 bugs that need
> triaging. If the other apps apart from KWord reckon that their bugs
> are all disorderly and all need to be triaged, then I think we are
> looking at one bug day here. If some of the apps are in the same
> situation as KWord where many of the bugs are in good order and need
> not be revisited, then I think perhaps we would do better to have a
> smaller-scale "bug evening" or extra bug day since there wouldn't be a
> huge amount of work to do.
>
> KOffice developers/maintainers: please fill in the ??? above.

KChart isn't in that list, but I'll reply anyway.  KChart doesn't need bug
triaging since we have few bugs and we know them.

What we do need, though, is to find the bugs that aren't reported yet.  In
other words, we would need a review of the application (or shape in this
case).  I suppose that some of the other apps would need the same.

        -Inge
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On Tuesday 30 September 2008 18:40:21 George Goldberg wrote:

> On Tue, Sep 30, 2008 at 5:24 PM,  <zahl+kde@...> wrote:
> > Well, if it is well triaged, then is this the best use of our resources?
> > Inge suggested that kword was most important, what about the other apps?
> > There seem to be a zillion, and there seems to be no easy way to get a
> > bug count on them all. Partly because I'm not sure what they all are. ;)
>
> Here is a list of the apps released as part of the recent KOffice
> beta. I'd appreciate if their developers/maintainers could fill in on
> how well triaged their bugs currently are.
>
> KWord - 290 bugs - ~40 need triaging.
> KSpread - 101 bugs - ??? need triaging.
> KPresenter - 57 bugs - ??? need triaging.
> KPlato - 6 bugs - ??? need triaging.
> Karbon - 16 bugs - ??? need triaging.
> Krita - 64 bugs - ??? need triaging.
>
> So far, that puts us on a maximum of about 280 bugs that need
> triaging. If the other apps apart from KWord reckon that their bugs
> are all disorderly and all need to be triaged, then I think we are
> looking at one bug day here. If some of the apps are in the same
> situation as KWord where many of the bugs are in good order and need
> not be revisited, then I think perhaps we would do better to have a
> smaller-scale "bug evening" or extra bug day since there wouldn't be a
> huge amount of work to do.
>
> KOffice developers/maintainers: please fill in the ??? above.

Speaking for Karbon, i also think trianging of these few bugs is not really
needed. However like KChart, some application penetration test would be
useful.

Ciao Jan
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On Tue, Sep 30, 2008 at 8:29 PM, Inge Wallin <inge@...> wrote:
> KChart isn't in that list, but I'll reply anyway.  KChart doesn't need bug
> triaging since we have few bugs and we know them.

Thats fine then :)

> What we do need, though, is to find the bugs that aren't reported yet.  In
> other words, we would need a review of the application (or shape in this
> case).  I suppose that some of the other apps would need the same.

We usually treat triaging bugs and finding bugs as two completely
different events (called "bug days" for triage and "krush days" for
bug finding). The issue with Krush days is that they need to be done
at a time close to release (since KOffice is in beta, that could well
be around now), and the developers need to have a reasonable amount of
space in their TODO's to fit in fixing all the bugs we find. Back in
May/June the Bugsquad did some Krush on KDE PIM. However, the
developers really didn't have enough time so only a very few of the
apps we krushed got any bugs fixed. I think we'd all like to avoid a
repeat of that since it feels like a lot of wasted effort from our
part.

So, what I propose is that we go ahead with a Bug Day for KOffice in
general (assuming enough KOffice apps want it), and if developers feel
they are ready to be inundated with new bug reports, they should
inform this list separately, telling us which App they would like
tested, and we will oblige ;).

George
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On Tuesday 30 September 2008 22:54:24 George Goldberg wrote:
> ...
> So, what I propose is that we go ahead with a Bug Day for KOffice in
> general (assuming enough KOffice apps want it), and if developers feel
> they are ready to be inundated with new bug reports, they should
> inform this list separately, telling us which App they would like
> tested, and we will oblige ;).

Ok.

And for the record: KChart, or rather the chart shape, wants its bugs to be
krushed.

        -Inge

> George


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