Is anyone interested in Antville 1.2?

[kris-8]

Hi there,

is there still an interest in a new Antville version or has everybody left the
building in favour of twoday.net?

I'm asking because I think the current version in the CVS is a big improvement
over the latest official release. It needs a bit of work, though, but it
deserves to be released.

I would volunteer to get through all the CVS branches, evaluate some
contributions from others, put the cool things together and call it 1.2 ;-)

Please let me know what you think.

Best,
kris

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[NightHawk-3]

hi..

my java(script) skills are very limited which is why i mainly read
this list.. i'm using antville (and so far not planning to switch to
twoday) and i would especially be interested in that tags / labels
implementation to be finished.. (twoday doesnt have that feature
anyways, so a switch would not help me on that either..) the
javascript used by typolis(.de/net/org or something) for the tags
looked very neat and i mean to remember that they were willing to
contribute to an effort to put some useful cvs branches together to a
new antville release aswell..


On 1/20/06, kris@... <kris@...> wrote:

> Hi there,
>
> is there still an interest in a new Antville version or has everybody left the
> building in favour of twoday.net?
>
> I'm asking because I think the current version in the CVS is a big improvement
> over the latest official release. It needs a bit of work, though, but it
> deserves to be released.
>
> I would volunteer to get through all the CVS branches, evaluate some
> contributions from others, put the cool things together and call it 1.2 ;-)
>
> Please let me know what you think.
>
> Best,
> kris
>
> _______________________________________________
> Antville-dev mailing list
> Antville-dev@...
> http://helma.org/mailman/listinfo/antville-dev
>

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[Franz Philipp Moser]

kris@... wrote:
> Hi there,

Hi,

sorry for the late answer.

> is there still an interest in a new Antville version or has everybody left the
> building in favour of twoday.net?

I have not switched to twoday yet. I'm interested in antville 1.2 and
I'm also interested in antville 1.3, 1.4 and 2.0 (as a represantation of
the current web 2.0)

> I'm asking because I think the current version in the CVS is a big improvement
> over the latest official release. It needs a bit of work, though, but it
> deserves to be released.

Maybe we could pop some things in like the RSS2 and the Tagging. They
still need some work too, but are nearly complete. I think espacially
the tagging is very interesting. But somebody has to look at it if the
performance is optimal.

> I would volunteer to get through all the CVS branches, evaluate some
> contributions from others, put the cool things together and call it 1.2 ;-)

Cool, please do this, if you need any help, I would like to help :)

> Please let me know what you think.

I think antville 1.2 would be wonderful, because it is a wonderful part
of software.

> Best,
> kris
<snip />

cu Philipp
--
XML is the ASCII for the new millenium
(Cocoon Documentation)

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[kris-8]

Hi,

two replies so far. Now that's what I call an overwhelming response. ;-)

> I have not switched to twoday yet. I'm interested in antville 1.2 and
> I'm also interested in antville 1.3, 1.4 and 2.0 (as a represantation
> of
> the current web 2.0)

I have no idea what you are referring to. Antville is far from Web 2.0
as it is free of buzzwords and curvy edges. And it's not BETA, either.

Anyway, just to make it clear, the version 1.2 will be an one-off
release and I have no ideas or plans on what will come after that.

> Maybe we could pop some things in like the RSS2 and the Tagging. They
> still need some work too, but are nearly complete. I think espacially
> the tagging is very interesting. But somebody has to look at it if the
> performance is optimal.

I personally do not believe in tagging and I have never liked the
concept of topics. Topic require too much discipline and 95% of the
weblogs have their topics messed up beyond being usable. I bet the same
will happen with tags. In my opinion weblogging has become
overly-complicated since the most important invention in weblogging,
the permalink, has been introduced.

Nevertheless, I am planning to include tags in the release because it
appears to be a cleaner implementation of topics and most of the code
is already available.

> Cool, please do this, if you need any help, I would like to help :)

Thanks of the offer. I will let you know.

Best,
Kris

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[Franz Philipp Moser]

kris // diszko.org wrote:
> Hi,

Hi,

> two replies so far. Now that's what I call an overwhelming response. ;-)

Yes, I think a lot of people are on holiday, but you are rigth not much
response by now.

>>I have not switched to twoday yet. I'm interested in antville 1.2 and
>>I'm also interested in antville 1.3, 1.4 and 2.0 (as a represantation
>>of
>>the current web 2.0)
>
>
> I have no idea what you are referring to. Antville is far from Web 2.0
> as it is free of buzzwords and curvy edges. And it's not BETA, either.

I just wanted to let you know that there should be more development in
the next months and bring some cutting edge features with modules to
antville.

It was a view into the future.

> Anyway, just to make it clear, the version 1.2 will be an one-off
> release and I have no ideas or plans on what will come after that.
 >

>>Maybe we could pop some things in like the RSS2 and the Tagging. They
>>still need some work too, but are nearly complete. I think espacially
>>the tagging is very interesting. But somebody has to look at it if the
>>performance is optimal.
>
>
> I personally do not believe in tagging and I have never liked the
> concept of topics. Topic require too much discipline and 95% of the
> weblogs have their topics messed up beyond being usable. I bet the same
> will happen with tags. In my opinion weblogging has become
> overly-complicated since the most important invention in weblogging,
> the permalink, has been introduced.

I believe in Tagging, because I think its easier to use than "Topiing".
My implementation is fully useable without modifing the core, so
everybody who likes it can use it.

> Nevertheless, I am planning to include tags in the release because it
> appears to be a cleaner implementation of topics and most of the code
> is already available.

Trackbacks would be cool to have.

>>Cool, please do this, if you need any help, I would like to help :)
>
>
> Thanks of the offer. I will let you know.

I'm looking forward.

> Best,
> Kris
<snip />

cu Philipp
--
XML is the ASCII for the new millenium
(Cocoon Documentation)
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[kris-8]

Hi,

> I just wanted to let you know that there should be more development in
> the next months and bring some cutting edge features with modules to
> antville.

Look, Tobi explained a couple of weeks ago that Antville needs a major
rewrite before it makes sense to put new and existing features into
modules. This is something I don't want to discuss right now. I'm
focussing on releasing what is already there or what needs just a
little effort to finish.

> I believe in Tagging, because I think its easier to use than "Topiing".

On an abstract level the only difference between topics and tags is
that you can assign only one topic but arbitralily many tags to a
story. Consequently, you need even more discipline to keep it
consistant and usable. The old topic implementation, however, misses
some important features like renaming and merging. This would be nice
to have for tags.

> My implementation is fully useable without modifing the core, so
> everybody who likes it can use it.

I'll have a look into it when I have some time.

> Trackbacks would be cool to have.

Trackbacks have been around for four or five years. They have not been
implemented in Antville for good reasons and that's why there won't be
Trackbacks in 1.2.

Best,
Kris

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[Franz Philipp Moser]

kris // diszko.org wrote:
> Hi,

Hi again,

>>I just wanted to let you know that there should be more development in
>>the next months and bring some cutting edge features with modules to
>>antville.
>
> Look, Tobi explained a couple of weeks ago that Antville needs a major
> rewrite before it makes sense to put new and existing features into
> modules. This is something I don't want to discuss right now. I'm
> focussing on releasing what is already there or what needs just a
> little effort to finish.

Ok, so the next release will be a put together what is in the CVS.

>>I believe in Tagging, because I think its easier to use than "Topiing".
>
> On an abstract level the only difference between topics and tags is
> that you can assign only one topic but arbitralily many tags to a
> story. Consequently, you need even more discipline to keep it
> consistant and usable. The old topic implementation, however, misses
> some important features like renaming and merging. This would be nice
> to have for tags.

The major difference between topics and tags is imho that you tag your
content more easy, because you don't have to think about, does this fit
into an existing topic, or create a new one, or do I have to reorganize
my topics to reflect my new content and so on. With tagging you just do
it, because you can, and this point goes to you, assign more than one
tag to a content.

Renaming is implemented (merging is just a renaming, but at the moment I
check if a tag exists allready) in my current implementation, but this
is a point to talk about.

I have made some perfomance tests, and found out that it would be much
more perfomant to make an sql update over the topics/tags and after that
invalidate the collection. To be honest I haven't got time to implement
this, but it has to be done :)

>>My implementation is fully useable without modifing the core, so
>>everybody who likes it can use it.
>
> I'll have a look into it when I have some time.

Nice to hear, its still not fully implemented and needs some work, but
for our weblogs it works fine.

You can see it in action in my weblog:

http://weblogs.brandnews.at/pm/tags

What I like the most is that you can combine Stories, images and files
all in one list (styling the list is a matter of its own and is not very
nice :). See here:

http://weblogs.brandnews.at/pm/tags/antville/

>>Trackbacks would be cool to have.
>
> Trackbacks have been around for four or five years. They have not been
> implemented in Antville for good reasons and that's why there won't be
> Trackbacks in 1.2.

So whats are these reasons?

> Best,
> Kris
<snip />

cu Philipp
--
XML is the ASCII for the new millenium
(Cocoon Documentation)

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[kinomu]

Hi,

> On an abstract level the only difference between topics and tags is
> that you can assign only one topic but arbitralily many tags to a
> story. Consequently, you need even more discipline to keep it
> consistant and usable.

That's right - and the reason why I think tagging should not replace topics
but be added, for those who need it.


> The old topic implementation, however, misses some important features
> like renaming

Philipp has added this to his antville-installation, maybe it't ready to be
released.


> ... weblogging has become overly-complicated ...

Trackbacks are a good example for something that is confusing for a lot of
people while needed by hardly anybody. I definitely don't need them, but
maybe things like that could be added as modules for those who want to add
the functionality by modifying their skins?


Two weeks ago Philipp suggested meeting in Vienna to discuss further
developement. Kris, what do you thing about that?

ciao,
kinomu

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[kris-8]

Hi,

> The major difference between topics and tags is imho that you tag your
> content more easy, because you don't have to think about, does this fit
> into an existing topic, or create a new one, or do I have to reorganize
> my topics to reflect my new content and so on.

This is exactly what I mean. The user doesn't have to think whereas he is
supposed to think and to take care. Crucial things should never be made too
easy.

But it's a waste of time to discuss this matter here. As I said, I'm planning to
include it.

> So whats are these reasons?

Kimonu explained the issues of Trackback already.

Best,
Kris
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[kris-8]

Hi,

> Two weeks ago Philipp suggested meeting in Vienna to discuss further
> developement. Kris, what do you thing about that?

Not now, because I haven't made up my mind about further development and I don't
even know if I can or if I want to decide this. I can't even estimate what a
commitment means and I don't want to make any promises at this point.

I suggested to prepare another release simply because I need to add some
features to the latest snapshot of Antville that may be useful for the public.
My focus is to get this done first.

Best,
Kris
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