Help with apr and apr-util

[Steve Comstock]

So I go to

   http://apr.apache.org/download.cgi

and download apr-1.3.2.tar.gz

But I'm confused:

   1. Should I delete the srclib/apr and srclib/apr-util
      directories I built just yesterday? Remember, the
      configure took me over five hours to build what I
      have (and it doesn't work)

   2. Where should I upload apr-1.3.2.tar.gz? in srclib?

   3. Does this contain both apr and apr-util?

   4. I find no install instructions; what are the steps?
      [small mercies: I know how to unzip and unwind; but
      once there, what can I expect?

   5. So suppose I install apr and apr-util under srclib,
      will I need to run the Apache configure again?



Kind regards,

-Steve Comstock
The Trainer's Friend, Inc.

303-393-8716
http://www.trainersfriend.com

   z/OS Application development made easier
     * Our classes include
        + How things work
        + Programming examples with realistic applications
        + Starter / skeleton code
        + Complete working programs
        + Useful utilities and subroutines
        + Tips and techniques

==> Check out the Trainer's Friend Store to purchase z/OS  <==
==> application developer toolkits. Sample code in four    <==
==> programming languages, JCL to Assemble or compile,     <==
==> bind and test.                                         <==
==>   http://www.trainersfriend.com/TTFStore/index.html    <==

[Bojan Smojver]

On Tue, 2008-06-24 at 14:45 -0600, Steve Comstock wrote:

>    1. Should I delete the srclib/apr and srclib/apr-util
>       directories I built just yesterday? Remember, the
>       configure took me over five hours to build what I
>       have (and it doesn't work)

You don't need to delete it, but you'll have to run another round of
configure on the new APR/APR-util anyhow. It's really unfortunate the
environment is so slow. Any way you can do this on bare metal somewhere
so you don't have to wait for hours to see the results?

>    2. Where should I upload apr-1.3.2.tar.gz? in srclib?

No need. You can put it anywhere you like. But, if you replace apr and
apr-util directories inside srclib with release 1.3.2, it should work as
well.

>    3. Does this contain both apr and apr-util?

No. APR-util is separate (i.e. you need to download another tarball).

>    4. I find no install instructions; what are the steps?
>       [small mercies: I know how to unzip and unwind; but
>       once there, what can I expect?

APR and APR-util are separate packages from httpd (httpd folks do ship
both with httpd for convenience). They can be installed by themselves.
They get installed like this:

APR:
----------
./configure [various options you like here]
make
make install
----------

APR-util:
----------
./configure --with-apr=/where/apr/is [various options you like here]
make
make install
----------

Run ./configure --help to see all the options.

Once you're done with those two, you can build and install httpd in a
similar way:

httpd:
----------
./configure --with-apr=/where/apr/is --with-apr-util=/where/apr-util/is
[various options you like here]
make
make install
----------

Again, run ./configure --help to see all the options.

>    5. So suppose I install apr and apr-util under srclib,
>       will I need to run the Apache configure again?

Yes, that's correct. Given that this runs for such a long time, it would
really be better to do it on the hardware, rather than an emulator.
Otherwise, it may take you weeks before you find out what's going on :-(

--
Bojan

[Bojan Smojver]

On Wed, 2008-06-25 at 09:26 +1000, Bojan Smojver wrote:
> Given that this runs for such a long time, it would
> really be better to do it on the hardware, rather than an emulator.
> Otherwise, it may take you weeks before you find out what's going on :-(

One more note here. If you would like to see how the whole process
works, you should be able to build APR/APR-util/httpd on you notebook
under Linux first, just to see where things end up and such.

--
Bojan

[Steve Comstock]

Bojan Smojver wrote:

> On Tue, 2008-06-24 at 14:45 -0600, Steve Comstock wrote:
>
>>    1. Should I delete the srclib/apr and srclib/apr-util
>>       directories I built just yesterday? Remember, the
>>       configure took me over five hours to build what I
>>       have (and it doesn't work)
>
> You don't need to delete it, but you'll have to run another round of
> configure on the new APR/APR-util anyhow. It's really unfortunate the
> environment is so slow. Any way you can do this on bare metal somewhere
> so you don't have to wait for hours to see the results?
>
>>    2. Where should I upload apr-1.3.2.tar.gz? in srclib?
>
> No need. You can put it anywhere you like. But, if you replace apr and
> apr-util directories inside srclib with release 1.3.2, it should work as
> well.
>
>>    3. Does this contain both apr and apr-util?
>
> No. APR-util is separate (i.e. you need to download another tarball).
>
>>    4. I find no install instructions; what are the steps?
>>       [small mercies: I know how to unzip and unwind; but
>>       once there, what can I expect?
>
> APR and APR-util are separate packages from httpd (httpd folks do ship
> both with httpd for convenience).

but that's one reason I'm so pissed: apparently the version shipped
with httpd is not the correct version. This would never be tolerated
in the mainframe world.



They can be installed by themselves.
> They get installed like this:

but wait: I do the gzip to unzip, but do I need to
use pax, in order to convert to EBCDIC, or can I
just use tar?

>
> APR:
> ----------
> ./configure [various options you like here]
> make
> make install
> ----------
>
> APR-util:
> ----------
> ./configure --with-apr=/where/apr/is [various options you like here]
> make
> make install
> ----------
>
> Run ./configure --help to see all the options.
>
> Once you're done with those two, you can build and install httpd in a
> similar way:
>
> httpd:
> ----------
> ./configure --with-apr=/where/apr/is --with-apr-util=/where/apr-util/is
> [various options you like here]
> make
> make install
> ----------
>
> Again, run ./configure --help to see all the options.
>
>>    5. So suppose I install apr and apr-util under srclib,
>>       will I need to run the Apache configure again?
>
> Yes, that's correct. Given that this runs for such a long time, it would
> really be better to do it on the hardware, rather than an emulator.
> Otherwise, it may take you weeks before you find out what's going on :-(
>

--

Kind regards,

-Steve Comstock
The Trainer's Friend, Inc.

303-393-8716
http://www.trainersfriend.com

   z/OS Application development made easier
     * Our classes include
        + How things work
        + Programming examples with realistic applications
        + Starter / skeleton code
        + Complete working programs
        + Useful utilities and subroutines
        + Tips and techniques

==> Check out the Trainer's Friend Store to purchase z/OS  <==
==> application developer toolkits. Sample code in four    <==
==> programming languages, JCL to Assemble or compile,     <==
==> bind and test.                                         <==
==>   http://www.trainersfriend.com/TTFStore/index.html    <==

[Branko Čibej]

Steve Comstock wrote:
> but that's one reason I'm so pissed: apparently the version shipped
> with httpd is not the correct version. This would never be tolerated
> in the mainframe world.

I beg your pardon? What is the "correct" version? As I see from our
posts, you're for all practical purposes creating a new port of
httpd/apr/apr-util. So while that bundled version of APR may not be
correct for your particular platform, I don't really find that too
surprising given the circumstances. Certainly lots of people have built
httpd-2.2.9 and dependencies from the tarball on other systems.

But what do I know. I swore off mainframes when they started to
implement POSIX-like subsystems in order that people could actually get
anything done on them. Also the local utility refused to lay in the
cable to power up my pet PDP-10 ...

-- Brane

[Steve Comstock]

Branko Čibej wrote:

> Steve Comstock wrote:
>> but that's one reason I'm so pissed: apparently the version shipped
>> with httpd is not the correct version. This would never be tolerated
>> in the mainframe world.
>
> I beg your pardon? What is the "correct" version? As I see from our
> posts, you're for all practical purposes creating a new port of
> httpd/apr/apr-util. So while that bundled version of APR may not be
> correct for your particular platform, I don't really find that too
> surprising given the circumstances. Certainly lots of people have built
> httpd-2.2.9 and dependencies from the tarball on other systems.

Well, from my perspective, I wanted to install the current Apache,
httpd version 2.2.9; I downloaded the tarball and went through
the install process as directed. Only to find the version of
apr and apr-util included are apparently not in synch with
the httpd in the same tarball. That's why I'm doing this: the
configure of httpd aparently went OK, but the make failed, and
someone told me it could be cured by installing the current
version of apr and apr-util. That's my perspective of what's
happening. I find it very surprising a bundled version of a
subsystem would not be a good fit for a platform, especially
if there is an appropriate fit available. Why wasnt apr-1.3.2
included in the httpd-2.2.9 tarball, I guess is what I'm
asking.

I had never even heard about apr before this effort. It's the
server I was after.


>
> But what do I know. I swore off mainframes when they started to
> implement POSIX-like subsystems in order that people could actually get
> anything done on them.

Huh? People have gotten a lot of productive work on mainframes
before POSIX-like things. z/OS now supports POSIX so that you
can run classic mainframe work at the same time you are running
UNIX type tasks. In fact, running under the shell you can
access both UNIX files and classic MVS files from the same
program. And, running outside of a shell, a program can access
both classic MVS files and HFS files.


Please remember that when I grew up in the business (starting
in 1968(!)), working for IBM, UNIX was considered the enemy.

Now, I'm trying to understand how the two worlds can work
together and compliment each other. It's a fun journey!

Also the local utility refused to lay in the
> cable to power up my pet PDP-10 ...
>

Ah, well, if you're going to call a PDP-10 a mainframe... :-)



Kind regards,

-Steve Comstock
The Trainer's Friend, Inc.

303-393-8716
http://www.trainersfriend.com

   z/OS Application development made easier
     * Our classes include
        + How things work
        + Programming examples with realistic applications
        + Starter / skeleton code
        + Complete working programs
        + Useful utilities and subroutines
        + Tips and techniques

==> Check out the Trainer's Friend Store to purchase z/OS  <==
==> application developer toolkits. Sample code in four    <==
==> programming languages, JCL to Assemble or compile,     <==
==> bind and test.                                         <==
==>   http://www.trainersfriend.com/TTFStore/index.html    <==

[Bojan Smojver]

On Tue, 2008-06-24 at 19:03 -0600, Steve Comstock wrote:

> but that's one reason I'm so pissed: apparently the version shipped
> with httpd is not the correct version. This would never be tolerated
> in the mainframe world.

1.3.0 was the best version at the time of the httpd-2.2.9 release, so
httpd folks correctly shipped that with it, after testing on various
platforms. Your platform may have not been included in the testing
though - we are all volunteers and access to all hardware is not always
possible.

We fixed some (non-critical) bugs since and released 1.3.2. More will be
fixed in 1.3.3 and so on. Future releases of httpd will include those
higher versions, of course.

> but wait: I do the gzip to unzip, but do I need to
> use pax, in order to convert to EBCDIC, or can I
> just use tar?

I am really not sure on this one - never used an EBCDIC system.

--
Bojan

[Bojan Smojver]

On Tue, 2008-06-24 at 19:41 -0600, Steve Comstock wrote:
> Why wasnt apr-1.3.2
> included in the httpd-2.2.9 tarball, I guess is what I'm
> asking.

Simply release timing, nothing else.

In fact, you'll find that many Linux and BSD distributions ship httpd
and APR/APU packages separately, so they can be upgraded separately as
well.

> I had never even heard about apr before this effort. It's the
> server I was after.

Yeah, long story. Once upon a time httpd used to run on Unix only. Then
some smart folks started developing APR/APU and the rest is
history... :-)

--
Bojan

[Eric Covener]

On Tue, Jun 24, 2008 at 9:41 PM, Steve Comstock
<steve@...> wrote:
> I find it very surprising a bundled version of a
> subsystem would not be a good fit for a platform, especially
> if there is an appropriate fit available. Why wasnt apr-1.3.2
> included in the httpd-2.2.9 tarball, I guess is what I'm
> asking.

Apache HTTP Server 2.2.9 is approximately contemporary with the
initial release of APR 1.3.0.   2.2.9 contained fixes for security
vulnerabilities, so it needed an uneventful release.

Hopefully 1.3.2 does the trick for you.

--
Eric Covener
covener@...

[William A. Rowe, Jr.]

Steve Comstock wrote:
> Why wasnt apr-1.3.2
> included in the httpd-2.2.9 tarball, I guess is what I'm
> asking.

If you look at the release dates, you'll see that 1.3.2 was released just
this Friday, mostly due to feedback from good users like yourself who
provide detailed information.  httpd 2.2.9 is almost 2 weeks old :)

[Steve Comstock]

William A. Rowe, Jr. wrote:

> Steve Comstock wrote:
>> Why wasnt apr-1.3.2
>> included in the httpd-2.2.9 tarball, I guess is what I'm
>> asking.
>
> If you look at the release dates, you'll see that 1.3.2 was released just
> this Friday, mostly due to feedback from good users like yourself who
> provide detailed information.  httpd 2.2.9 is almost 2 weeks old :)
>
>

It's like the Dilbert cartoon:

"Sometimes people like you can get jobs in museums."
"I just bought this yesterday!"

Ah, the good old days, just a month ago. :-)


Kind regards,

-Steve Comstock
The Trainer's Friend, Inc.

303-393-8716
http://www.trainersfriend.com

   z/OS Application development made easier
     * Our classes include
        + How things work
        + Programming examples with realistic applications
        + Starter / skeleton code
        + Complete working programs
        + Useful utilities and subroutines
        + Tips and techniques

==> Check out the Trainer's Friend Store to purchase z/OS  <==
==> application developer toolkits. Sample code in four    <==
==> programming languages, JCL to Assemble or compile,     <==
==> bind and test.                                         <==
==>   http://www.trainersfriend.com/TTFStore/index.html    <==

[Branko Čibej]

Steve Comstock wrote:
> Branko Čibej wrote:
>> Also the local utility refused to lay in the cable to power up my pet
>> PDP-10 ...
>>
>
> Ah, well, if you're going to call a PDP-10 a mainframe... :-)

I'm so sorry, I completely forgot TOPS-10 subsisted on a 6-bit ASCII
subset, no EBCDIC that I can recall. Clearly a toy. ;-)

-- Brane

[Graham Leggett]

Steve Comstock wrote:

> Why wasnt apr-1.3.2
> included in the httpd-2.2.9 tarball, I guess is what I'm
> asking.

Because when httpd v2.2.9 was released, apr v1.3.2 didn't exist.

Until httpd v2.2.10 is released against the newer version of apr, simply
replace the bundled version of apr with the newer one containing the
fixes you need.

Regards,
Graham
--

[EU EU MEMO SÓ]

----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Comstock" <steve@...>
To: <dev@...>
Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2008 10:03 PM
Subject: Re: Help with apr and apr-util

> Bojan Smojver wrote:
>> On Tue, 2008-06-24 at 14:45 -0600, Steve Comstock wrote:
>>
>>>    1. Should I delete the srclib/apr and srclib/apr-util
>>>       directories I built just yesterday? Remember, the
>>>       configure took me over five hours to build what I
>>>       have (and it doesn't work)
>>
>> You don't need to delete it, but you'll have to run another round of
>> configure on the new APR/APR-util anyhow. It's really unfortunate the
>> environment is so slow. Any way you can do this on bare metal somewhere
>> so you don't have to wait for hours to see the results?
>>
>>>    2. Where should I upload apr-1.3.2.tar.gz? in srclib?
>>
>> No need. You can put it anywhere you like. But, if you replace apr and
>> apr-util directories inside srclib with release 1.3.2, it should work as
>> well.
>>
>>>    3. Does this contain both apr and apr-util?
>>
>> No. APR-util is separate (i.e. you need to download another tarball).
>>
>>>    4. I find no install instructions; what are the steps?
>>>       [small mercies: I know how to unzip and unwind; but
>>>       once there, what can I expect?
>>
>> APR and APR-util are separate packages from httpd (httpd folks do ship
>> both with httpd for convenience).
>
> but that's one reason I'm so pissed: apparently the version shipped
> with httpd is not the correct version. This would never be tolerated
> in the mainframe world.
>
>
>
> They can be installed by themselves.
>> They get installed like this:
>
> but wait: I do the gzip to unzip, but do I need to
> use pax, in order to convert to EBCDIC, or can I
> just use tar?
>
>
>
>
>>
>> APR:
>> ----------
>> ./configure [various options you like here]
>> make
>> make install
>> ----------
>>
>> APR-util:
>> ----------
>> ./configure --with-apr=/where/apr/is [various options you like here]
>> make
>> make install
>> ----------
>>
>> Run ./configure --help to see all the options.
>>
>> Once you're done with those two, you can build and install httpd in a
>> similar way:
>>
>> httpd:
>> ----------
>> ./configure --with-apr=/where/apr/is --with-apr-util=/where/apr-util/is
>> [various options you like here]
>> make
>> make install
>> ----------
>>
>> Again, run ./configure --help to see all the options.
>>
>>>    5. So suppose I install apr and apr-util under srclib,
>>>       will I need to run the Apache configure again?
>>
>> Yes, that's correct. Given that this runs for such a long time, it would
>> really be better to do it on the hardware, rather than an emulator.
>> Otherwise, it may take you weeks before you find out what's going on :-(
>>
>
>
> --
>
> Kind regards,
>
> -Steve Comstock
> The Trainer's Friend, Inc.
>
> 303-393-8716
> http://www.trainersfriend.com
>
>   z/OS Application development made easier
>     * Our classes include
>        + How things work
>        + Programming examples with realistic applications
>        + Starter / skeleton code
>        + Complete working programs
>        + Useful utilities and subroutines
>        + Tips and techniques
>
> ==> Check out the Trainer's Friend Store to purchase z/OS  <==
> ==> application developer toolkits. Sample code in four    <==
> ==> programming languages, JCL to Assemble or compile,     <==
> ==> bind and test.                                         <==
> ==>   http://www.trainersfriend.com/TTFStore/index.html    <==
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 270.4.1/1516 - Release
> Date: 24/6/2008 07:53
>
>

[EU EU MEMO SÓ]

----- Original Message -----
From: "Branko Čibej" <brane@...>
To: <dev@...>
Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2008 10:22 PM
Subject: Re: Help with apr and apr-util

> Steve Comstock wrote:
>> but that's one reason I'm so pissed: apparently the version shipped
>> with httpd is not the correct version. This would never be tolerated
>> in the mainframe world.
>
> I beg your pardon? What is the "correct" version? As I see from our posts,
> you're for all practical purposes creating a new port of
> httpd/apr/apr-util. So while that bundled version of APR may not be
> correct for your particular platform, I don't really find that too
> surprising given the circumstances. Certainly lots of people have built
> httpd-2.2.9 and dependencies from the tarball on other systems.
>
> But what do I know. I swore off mainframes when they started to implement
> POSIX-like subsystems in order that people could actually get anything
> done on them. Also the local utility refused to lay in the cable to power
> up my pet PDP-10 ...
>
> -- Brane
>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 270.4.1/1516 - Release
> Date: 24/6/2008 07:53
>
>

[EU EU MEMO SÓ]

----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Comstock" <steve@...>
To: <dev@...>
Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2008 10:41 PM
Subject: Re: Help with apr and apr-util

> Branko Čibej wrote:
>> Steve Comstock wrote:
>>> but that's one reason I'm so pissed: apparently the version shipped
>>> with httpd is not the correct version. This would never be tolerated
>>> in the mainframe world.
>>
>> I beg your pardon? What is the "correct" version? As I see from our
>> posts, you're for all practical purposes creating a new port of
>> httpd/apr/apr-util. So while that bundled version of APR may not be
>> correct for your particular platform, I don't really find that too
>> surprising given the circumstances. Certainly lots of people have built
>> httpd-2.2.9 and dependencies from the tarball on other systems.
>
> Well, from my perspective, I wanted to install the current Apache,
> httpd version 2.2.9; I downloaded the tarball and went through
> the install process as directed. Only to find the version of
> apr and apr-util included are apparently not in synch with
> the httpd in the same tarball. That's why I'm doing this: the
> configure of httpd aparently went OK, but the make failed, and
> someone told me it could be cured by installing the current
> version of apr and apr-util. That's my perspective of what's
> happening. I find it very surprising a bundled version of a
> subsystem would not be a good fit for a platform, especially
> if there is an appropriate fit available. Why wasnt apr-1.3.2
> included in the httpd-2.2.9 tarball, I guess is what I'm
> asking.
>
> I had never even heard about apr before this effort. It's the
> server I was after.
>
>
>>
>> But what do I know. I swore off mainframes when they started to implement
>> POSIX-like subsystems in order that people could actually get anything
>> done on them.
>
> Huh? People have gotten a lot of productive work on mainframes
> before POSIX-like things. z/OS now supports POSIX so that you
> can run classic mainframe work at the same time you are running
> UNIX type tasks. In fact, running under the shell you can
> access both UNIX files and classic MVS files from the same
> program. And, running outside of a shell, a program can access
> both classic MVS files and HFS files.
>
>
> Please remember that when I grew up in the business (starting
> in 1968(!)), working for IBM, UNIX was considered the enemy.
>
> Now, I'm trying to understand how the two worlds can work
> together and compliment each other. It's a fun journey!
>
> Also the local utility refused to lay in the
>> cable to power up my pet PDP-10 ...
>>
>
> Ah, well, if you're going to call a PDP-10 a mainframe... :-)
>
>
>
> Kind regards,
>
> -Steve Comstock
> The Trainer's Friend, Inc.
>
> 303-393-8716
> http://www.trainersfriend.com
>
>   z/OS Application development made easier
>     * Our classes include
>        + How things work
>        + Programming examples with realistic applications
>        + Starter / skeleton code
>        + Complete working programs
>        + Useful utilities and subroutines
>        + Tips and techniques
>
> ==> Check out the Trainer's Friend Store to purchase z/OS  <==
> ==> application developer toolkits. Sample code in four    <==
> ==> programming languages, JCL to Assemble or compile,     <==
> ==> bind and test.                                         <==
> ==>   http://www.trainersfriend.com/TTFStore/index.html    <==
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 270.4.1/1516 - Release
> Date: 24/6/2008 07:53
>
>

[EU EU MEMO SÓ]

----- Original Message -----
From: "Bojan Smojver" <bojan@...>
To: <dev@...>
Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2008 10:49 PM
Subject: Re: Help with apr and apr-util

> On Tue, 2008-06-24 at 19:03 -0600, Steve Comstock wrote:
>
>> but that's one reason I'm so pissed: apparently the version shipped
>> with httpd is not the correct version. This would never be tolerated
>> in the mainframe world.
>
> 1.3.0 was the best version at the time of the httpd-2.2.9 release, so
> httpd folks correctly shipped that with it, after testing on various
> platforms. Your platform may have not been included in the testing
> though - we are all volunteers and access to all hardware is not always
> possible.
>
> We fixed some (non-critical) bugs since and released 1.3.2. More will be
> fixed in 1.3.3 and so on. Future releases of httpd will include those
> higher versions, of course.
>
>> but wait: I do the gzip to unzip, but do I need to
>> use pax, in order to convert to EBCDIC, or can I
>> just use tar?
>
> I am really not sure on this one - never used an EBCDIC system.
>
> --
> Bojan
>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG.
> Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 270.4.1/1516 - Release Date: 24/6/2008
> 07:53
>
>