Happy New Year - New IR Film? Kodak Reconsidering?!?

[Jimmy Williams]

Greetings and Happy New Year!

I have been watching the thread for the Save HIE
campaign at APUG grow and many interesting posts have
turned up in the past couple of weeks.

One member, PHOTO ENGINEER, in Rochester, posted:
"As for Kodak, rumors I get from within EK say that
Perez has begun to backpedal a bit on analog after
seeing some of the results of the survey of
professionals, and the problems with storing digital
archivally. He is also impressed by the income from
film, as it is selling well.

"So, stand by and hold onto your hats, there may be a
change in the wind at EK. The story is that something
is up!"


Robert Vonk, owner of Fotohuis in Netherlands, posted:
".........Due to the fact Kodak has discontinued HIE
our Fotohuis has organized >all int. Partners,
Rollei/Maco (Germany)- Foma Bohemia S.R.O. (Czech
Republic) - Moersch Photochemie (Germany) etc. to
introduce a new high sensitive IR film on ALL formats.
The risk for such a film project is high, it's
difficult to make and more multi-language technicians
are involved. However two main EU manufacturers have
this technology, so we will not ask Kodak for
assistance."

I emailed Robert and asked if he could share more
detailed information and his reply:
"Gevaert (the former R&D lab from Agfa Photo) in
Belgium is able to do it and Foma (Czech Republic) is
also able to make these kind of films but their
packing line is not able to wrap up for the 120 roll
films. Ilford/Harman is in Europe the only company who
can make 100% nice 120 I.R. film packings and
therefore Ilford/Harman is making the 120 roll film
packing for the Rollei/Maco I.R. 820/400 120 roll
film.

"If our company decide to let make an 850nm-900nm high
sensitive I.R. film it will be together with the
Rollei/Maco company because it's useless to compete
them in this small market. It must be an IMPROVEMENT
for their existing I.R. film and such a project is
carrying high risks.

"Whatever the intention is there and all partners are
searching for other industrial areas to sell such a
new production I.R. film because only the few amateurs
worldwide (even on APUG) have not a too much impact on
overall sales worldwide."


So, we may have a future for HIE, either from Kodak
and/or EU manufacturers! It will be interesting to see
which way the wind blows.

Whatever happens, I sincerely wish all a wonderful new
year with great success, prosperity and happiness.


Best Wishes in 2008!
James C. Williams




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[WJM]

On 1 Jan 2008 at 8:21, Jimmy Williams wrote:

> Greetings and Happy New Year!
>
> I have been watching the thread for the Save HIE
> campaign at APUG grow and many interesting posts have
> turned up in the past couple of weeks.
>
> One member, PHOTO ENGINEER, in Rochester, posted:
> "As for Kodak, rumors I get from within EK say that
> Perez has begun to backpedal a bit on analog after
> seeing some of the results of the survey of
> professionals, and the problems with storing digital
> archivally. He is also impressed by the income from
> film, as it is selling well.
>
> "So, stand by and hold onto your hats, there may be a
> change in the wind at EK. The story is that something
> is up!"
>
>
> Robert Vonk, owner of Fotohuis in Netherlands, posted:
> ".........Due to the fact Kodak has discontinued HIE
> our Fotohuis has organized >all int. Partners,
> Rollei/Maco (Germany)- Foma Bohemia S.R.O. (Czech
> Republic) - Moersch Photochemie (Germany) etc. to
> introduce a new high sensitive IR film on ALL formats.
> The risk for such a film project is high, it's
> difficult to make and more multi-language technicians
> are involved. However two main EU manufacturers have
> this technology, so we will not ask Kodak for
> assistance."
>
> I emailed Robert and asked if he could share more
> detailed information and his reply:
> "Gevaert (the former R&D lab from Agfa Photo) in
> Belgium is able to do it and Foma (Czech Republic) is
> also able to make these kind of films but their
> packing line is not able to wrap up for the 120 roll
> films. Ilford/Harman is in Europe the only company who
> can make 100% nice 120 I.R. film packings and
> therefore Ilford/Harman is making the 120 roll film
> packing for the Rollei/Maco I.R. 820/400 120 roll
> film.
>
> "If our company decide to let make an 850nm-900nm high
> sensitive I.R. film it will be together with the
> Rollei/Maco company because it's useless to compete
> them in this small market. It must be an IMPROVEMENT
> for their existing I.R. film and such a project is
> carrying high risks.

I have been talking to Mr. Schröder from Maco about taking over from HIE since
PhotoKina 2004, possibly even 2002; first in the context of 120/220/320[*] &
70mm, later as complete backup, even for 35mm HIE.

The analysis why, according to him, it can't be done in any feasible way, is
here:

http://www.a1.nl/phomepages/markerink/ir_infrared-sensitive-component.txt

(note the slightly different main-directory currently, 'phomepages' vs the
previous 'phomepag'....provider screwed up in a restructuring session of
websites, putting the oldest directories/customers back on the wrong place;
stay tuned)


[*] '320', only film, no paper backing, is my favorite since the film requires
darkloading (so hardly any need for paper, neither in the camera nor in the
cannister), and without paper backing, one can put more film onto the reel,
requiring less darkload sessions (and yes, on some camera's, like the Noblex
150, you can easily upgrade from the default 120-only to 220, and also to
320....:))
(you loose one shot inbetween, while the counter=film-winder goes around for
the next set of 6 images)



> "Whatever the intention is there and all partners are
> searching for other industrial areas to sell such a
> new production I.R. film because only the few amateurs
> worldwide (even on APUG) have not a too much impact on
> overall sales worldwide."

The moment the industrial/agriculture/geographic/academic world switches over
to digital, it won't be feasible any longer for the microscopic small market of
art/amateur....at least not in the current economy of scale & chemics....see
above URL.
If a new chemical/method is found, all possibilities are open of course....even
film costing 1/10 what it costs now, if it can also produced somewhere in China
or India....;))

The only alternative left, IMO, is an infrequent production run of this film,
and people storing the stuff in the fridge themselves....once every 1/2/5
years.....but for any company, that would border on philantropical management,
not economic....;((

>
> So, we may have a future for HIE, either from Kodak
> and/or EU manufacturers! It will be interesting to see
> which way the wind blows.

Back then, I was the only one bugging Mr. Schroeder, in a qualitative context
(other/better film).
Now it is up to others to provide the quantitative bugging, showing him that
there *is* a market, large enough for the necessary economy of scale.

PS: don't waste too much time, as Mr. Schroeder has already plans where to
settle after his retirement in a few years, and that wasn't near the
factory....;((
(he doesn't own the company, Mr. Mahn does, IIRC)
(core company is 'Hans O. Mahn', abbreviated to MaCo, IIRC)
(oh well, at least they don't have a notation on the stock exchange market, so
they wouldn't be forced into the same lunatic company strategies as Kodak)

> Whatever happens, I sincerely wish all a wonderful new
> year with great success, prosperity and happiness.
>
>
> Best Wishes in 2008!
> James C. Williams
>

--
Bye,

Willem-Jan Markerink

      The desire to understand
is sometimes far less intelligent than
     the inability to understand

<w.j.markerink@...>
[note: 'a-one' & 'en-el'!]

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