Getting cash abroad

[Tomás Ó hÉilidhe-2]

I'm going to live in Asia for a while and I'm looking at ways of
transferring money from my home country (Ireland).

For instance, let's say someone in my home country wants to send 500
Euro to me. There's options such as:
1) Send me cash by post in an envelope
2) Send me a bank draft by post in an envelope
3) Western Union
4) Put the money into my Irish bank account, and then I'll use my Cirrus
card to withdraw it from an ATM

1 is too dodgy.
2 is too complicated, I'm guaranteed to have trouble in the foreign bank.
3 is ridiculously too expensive.

I'm liking option 4 at the moment, and they only take 3% of the amount
you withdraw with a maximum of 12 Euro charge. So if I withdraw 300
Euro, it will cost me 9 Euro. If I withdraw 5 million Euro, it will cost
me 12 Euro.

Anyone got suggestions for getting money from home? One other thing, I
don't have a credit card here in Ireland but I'm wondering if there's
any merit in me getting one for when I'm away? (I wouldn't get it for
the purpose of having credit, but rather for the functionality of it).

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[Shawn Tan Ser Ngiap]

On Tuesday 15 July 2008 08:41:01 Tomás Ó hÉilidhe wrote:
> For instance, let's say someone in my home country wants to send 500
> Euro to me. There's options such as:
> 1) Send me cash by post in an envelope
> 2) Send me a bank draft by post in an envelope
> 3) Western Union
> 4) Put the money into my Irish bank account, and then I'll use my Cirrus
> card to withdraw it from an ATM

It depends on how much money you'll need transferred at a time. 1+2 are
definitely out. 3 is suitable if you're transferring larger amounts. 500
euros is probably not worth it. So, you'll only be able to use 4.

I think that HSBC charges less if you end up withdrawing money from another
HSBC branch overseas. At least, that's what I was told by HSBC at both ends.

And yes, by all means, get a credit card. You should be able to use it if you
end up shopping at high-street shops (not regular mom+pop shops). Just
remember that there is usually a surcharge for purchasing by credit card
(about 3% or so).

--
with metta,
Shawn Tan

Aeste Works (M) Sdn Bhd - Engineering Elegance
http://www.aeste.net

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[Picbits Sales]

I think Nationwide Bank have a zero charge on foreign transactions when you
use their credit/debit card.

Worth a look as it could save you a lot of money in the long term.

If you use a credit card then make sure you have someone back home paying
off the balance .......


----- Original Message -----
From: "Tomás Ó hÉilidhe" <toe@...>
To: "Microcontroller discussion list - Public." <piclist@...>
Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2008 8:41 AM
Subject: [OT] Getting cash abroad

>
> I'm going to live in Asia for a while and I'm looking at ways of
> transferring money from my home country (Ireland).
>
> For instance, let's say someone in my home country wants to send 500
> Euro to me. There's options such as:
> 1) Send me cash by post in an envelope
> 2) Send me a bank draft by post in an envelope
> 3) Western Union
> 4) Put the money into my Irish bank account, and then I'll use my Cirrus
> card to withdraw it from an ATM
>
> 1 is too dodgy.
> 2 is too complicated, I'm guaranteed to have trouble in the foreign bank.
> 3 is ridiculously too expensive.
>
> I'm liking option 4 at the moment, and they only take 3% of the amount
> you withdraw with a maximum of 12 Euro charge. So if I withdraw 300
> Euro, it will cost me 9 Euro. If I withdraw 5 million Euro, it will cost
> me 12 Euro.
>
> Anyone got suggestions for getting money from home? One other thing, I
> don't have a credit card here in Ireland but I'm wondering if there's
> any merit in me getting one for when I'm away? (I wouldn't get it for
> the purpose of having credit, but rather for the functionality of it).
>
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>
>
>

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[Roger, in Bangkok]

#1 & #2 don't even think about them ...
#3 for all practical purposes is impractical ... as well as ridiculously
expensive.
#4 is deceptive, because they will also deduct "service" charges from the
local currency when you take it out of the ATM.

A credit card is nearly essential ... consider broken bones, lost airline
tickets or missed flight, sudden desire to rent a car or car and driver.  A
few small denomination traveler's checks are not a bad idea, although many
places do not accept them.  Credit cards can only advance cash from ATM, no
bank counter services allowed, at least in Thailand and several other
places.  Likewise you can only advance cash up to 50% of the credit limit.

Regards/Roger, in Bangkok

On 7/15/08, Tomás Ó hÉilidhe <toe@...> wrote:

>
>
> I'm going to live in Asia for a while and I'm looking at ways of
> transferring money from my home country (Ireland).
>
> For instance, let's say someone in my home country wants to send 500
> Euro to me. There's options such as:
> 1) Send me cash by post in an envelope
> 2) Send me a bank draft by post in an envelope
> 3) Western Union
> 4) Put the money into my Irish bank account, and then I'll use my Cirrus
> card to withdraw it from an ATM
>
> 1 is too dodgy.
> 2 is too complicated, I'm guaranteed to have trouble in the foreign bank.
> 3 is ridiculously too expensive.
>
> I'm liking option 4 at the moment, and they only take 3% of the amount
> you withdraw with a maximum of 12 Euro charge. So if I withdraw 300
> Euro, it will cost me 9 Euro. If I withdraw 5 million Euro, it will cost
> me 12 Euro.
>
> Anyone got suggestions for getting money from home? One other thing, I
> don't have a credit card here in Ireland but I'm wondering if there's
> any merit in me getting one for when I'm away? (I wouldn't get it for
> the purpose of having credit, but rather for the functionality of it).
>
>
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>

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[Apptech]

I use VISA, which I assume is like unto your option 4.
I preload credit before a trip and draw as wanted.
Service charge applies and you are somewhat at the mercy of
their exchange rate.
As the maximum fee is fixed (at about $7.50 AFAIR)($US?)  I
tend to draw in largish dollops if at all to keep the %
down.

Note that (unless you want to give money away to a very bad
cause) you should NEVER use the money changers (Travelex?)
that are in all airports and in main business centres. They
not only offer usurious exchange rates but add a fee as
well. The small money changers, usually located just
outside, and in many other locations as well, offer vastly
better rates and no base fee. I stand in airports outside
the "official changers" booths examining their rates boards
and muttering loudly about the iniquitous business they run.
If I can save even one poor lost soul per trip from their
foul grasp I feel I've done some good. Imprecations about
highway robbers still being alive and in business seem to
also go down well with the incumbents. [[Look at buy & sell
rates for cash on their board. Take average (either half way
between or if keen multiply 2 rates together and take square
root) and then work out how many % above and below this mid
point their rates are. That is essentially their profit
margin. People who charge in the 10% to 20%+ range for a
single currency exchange and THEN add a stiff 'fee" as well
are thieves of the first order. For some currencies the rate
is higher again.

For initial funds, exchanging at best available rate at home
and carrying in person can be cheapest as long as you can
manage to not be parted from your money. Countries have
maximum undeclared amounts that you can carry but I imagine
you'd be below such limits (I am!) and it is usually legal
to carry more - you just have to declare it).

Where in Asia?


        Russell

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[SM Ling]

>> I'm going to live in Asia for a while and I'm looking at ways of
>> transferring money from my home country (Ireland).
>>
>> For instance, let's say someone in my home country wants to send 500
>> Euro to me. There's options such as:
>> 1) Send me cash by post in an envelope
>> 2) Send me a bank draft by post in an envelope
>> 3) Western Union
>> 4) Put the money into my Irish bank account, and then I'll use my Cirrus
>> card to withdraw it from an ATM

It depends on your risk appetite.  For very small amount and depend on
the country you are going to reside, maybe (1) is OK.  Guess, you
would know after a few tries.

I would rather open an account in the residing country if it is going
to be a long while, and then do the transfer through paypal when
necessary.  If it is short while, then I go the credit card way.

Ling SM
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[Apptech]

And yes, by all means, get a credit card. You should be able
to use it if you
end up shopping at high-street shops (not regular mom+pop
shops). Just
remember that there is usually a surcharge for purchasing by
credit card
(about 3% or so).

/>

In NZ that's true. I have been surprised to find that in
various other countries people often do NOT charge any extra
for using credit cards. This may vary with location. eg
Hongkong electronic stores seemed to add no extra. Australia
also.



        Russell


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[Tomás Ó hÉilidhe-2]

Another thing I need to look into is how I'm going to bring my initial
lump sum over with me. I'm bringing about 2 or 3 thousand Euro, and I've
considered bringing it over as a few 500 Euro notes. I can strap it to
the inside of my leg, and even if I get mugged they'll never know I have it.

Would I have trouble exchanging large notes over in Thailand? Am I
likely to get searched by police at any time, and if so will they rob me?


Roger, in Bangkok wrote:

> #1 & #2 don't even think about them ...
> #3 for all practical purposes is impractical ... as well as ridiculously
> expensive.
> #4 is deceptive, because they will also deduct "service" charges from the
> local currency when you take it out of the ATM.
>
> A credit card is nearly essential ... consider broken bones, lost airline
> tickets or missed flight, sudden desire to rent a car or car and driver.  A
> few small denomination traveler's checks are not a bad idea, although many
> places do not accept them.  Credit cards can only advance cash from ATM, no
> bank counter services allowed, at least in Thailand and several other
> places.  Likewise you can only advance cash up to 50% of the credit limit.

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[Apptech]

> I would rather open an account in the residing country if
> it is going
> to be a long while, and then do the transfer through
> paypal when
> necessary.

Paypal seems to me to be an expensive way to move money. Do
I have a wrong impression?



            Russell

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[CDB-3]

It might be worth checking with your current bank if they have;

1. Branches in the foreign country that allow access to retail
accounts.

2. Reciprocating rights with another bank, most large banks have a
reciprocating bank as far as foreign currency transactions are
concerned.

3.Open a foreign currency account if possible with your own bank, you
should then be able to go into a foreign bank and withdraw money.

Lloyds used to have foreign branches, though mainly in Europe.

4. You might even find a bank for the country you're going to that has
an office in Ireland and will allow you to set up an account, then you
can not only preload the account, if you have internet banking access,
you'd be able to log on, withdraw and drop off!

Of course annoyingly banks like RBS don't allow international
transactions via the internet, where as all the banks in Australia do.

Colin
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[CDB-3]

You should check the customs regulations for the country you are going
to, some still have exchange controls - Australia for example has to
be notified if more than AU$10,000 in cash is flowing through it's
borders either way, otherwise it's a possible jail sentence. In fact
all banking transactions go through a special unit, just most of the
time it is invisible..

One other thought is if your debit card is Maestro logo'ed, then
you'll be able to use it in any  shop or bank that is Maestro
affiliated. Beware though of things like in my recent return to the
UK, my UK bank cards are now chip enabled but my Australian credit
cards aren't. Many shops refused to take them because  they have
thrown out their paper vouchers and only geared up with pin number
access, although they are still supposed to take both.

Colin

:: Another thing I need to look into is how I'm going to bring my
:: initial
:: lump sum over with me. I'm bringing about 2 or 3 thousand Euro,
:: and I've
:: considered bringing it over as a few 500 Euro notes. I can strap
:: it to
:: the inside of my leg, and even if I get mugged they'll never know
:: I have it.
::
:: Would I have trouble exchanging large notes over in Thailand? Am I
:: likely to get searched by police at any time, and if so will they
:: rob me
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[Richard Prosser]

I'd get a visa card. If you need to get additional funds, money can be
transferred into the account in Irelend (I assume - it works OK in
NZ).

Personally, I wouldn't carry large amounts of money around with me. If
you have to carry it, spread it around in different areas of your
person so you're not likely to loose it all at once.

Don't try & hide it from police or (especially) customs as they may
think you're involved with illegal activity if they do find it.

Cops are not too likely to rob you  - at worst you might have to pay
an "instant fine" if you do something slightly silly & attract
attention. (If you do something really silly & get caught then all
bets are off).

But YMMV.

RP


2008/7/15 Tomás Ó hÉilidhe <toe@...>:

>
>
> Another thing I need to look into is how I'm going to bring my initial
> lump sum over with me. I'm bringing about 2 or 3 thousand Euro, and I've
> considered bringing it over as a few 500 Euro notes. I can strap it to
> the inside of my leg, and even if I get mugged they'll never know I have it.
>
> Would I have trouble exchanging large notes over in Thailand? Am I
> likely to get searched by police at any time, and if so will they rob me?
>
>
> Roger, in Bangkok wrote:
>> #1 & #2 don't even think about them ...
>> #3 for all practical purposes is impractical ... as well as ridiculously
>> expensive.
>> #4 is deceptive, because they will also deduct "service" charges from the
>> local currency when you take it out of the ATM.
>>
>> A credit card is nearly essential ... consider broken bones, lost airline
>> tickets or missed flight, sudden desire to rent a car or car and driver.  A
>> few small denomination traveler's checks are not a bad idea, although many
>> places do not accept them.  Credit cards can only advance cash from ATM, no
>> bank counter services allowed, at least in Thailand and several other
>> places.  Likewise you can only advance cash up to 50% of the credit limit.
>
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[peter green-2]

> Paypal seems to me to be an expensive way to move money. Do
> I have a wrong impression?
>  
It depends on how much money, when I enquired about an international
bank transfer (uk-germany) there was a flat fee (arround a tenner IIRC)
for all transactions up to a fairly large ammount (£10k or so iirc). I
don't know how favourable the exchange rate was but I would expect it to
be reasonable.

Paypal has a much smaller upfront fee but takes a relatively high
percentage fee. Therefore it is a decent choice for small transactions
but bank transfers would probablly become cheaper past a few hundred pounds.

This will almost certainly vary depending on the banks and currancies
you are dealing with.

However you move money arround I would think a local bank account would
be pretty damn important to allow you to make your day to day
transactions without unacceptable fees (keeping large ammounts of cash
seems unwise to me).
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[Richard Prosser]

Tomas,

Re the local bank account.

I don't know what Thailand is like but a few years ago Malaysian banks
were very restrictive about what you could & couldn't do until you had
a good credit record built up - over a period of years. It may be
different in Thailand and it may well be different now in Malaysia but
if you want to set up a local account, it might be best to ask your
current bank for their advice / contacts / affiliations etc.

RP

2008/7/15 peter green <plugwash@...>:

>
>> Paypal seems to me to be an expensive way to move money. Do
>> I have a wrong impression?
>>
> It depends on how much money, when I enquired about an international
> bank transfer (uk-germany) there was a flat fee (arround a tenner IIRC)
> for all transactions up to a fairly large ammount (£10k or so iirc). I
> don't know how favourable the exchange rate was but I would expect it to
> be reasonable.
>
> Paypal has a much smaller upfront fee but takes a relatively high
> percentage fee. Therefore it is a decent choice for small transactions
> but bank transfers would probablly become cheaper past a few hundred pounds.
>
> This will almost certainly vary depending on the banks and currancies
> you are dealing with.
>
> However you move money arround I would think a local bank account would
> be pretty damn important to allow you to make your day to day
> transactions without unacceptable fees (keeping large ammounts of cash
> seems unwise to me).
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[SM Ling]

>> I would rather open an account in the residing country if
>> it is going
>> to be a long while, and then do the transfer through
>> paypal when
>> necessary.
>
> Paypal seems to me to be an expensive way to move money. Do
> I have a wrong impression?

It depends on the amount as peter has pointed out.  I am picturing,
for large amount he shall hand-carry when he does home-visiting,
probably through cashier check drawn on foreign bank.  And the paypal
transfer is only for smaller amount and of low frequency.  Bank
transfer should not be the way, as there are high transfer cost and
"cable" cost.  The over-the-counter exchange rate for bank and credit
card was also not good.  WU, no way.

Ling SM
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[Roger, in Bangkok]

All things get more and more restrictive with time.  You cannot even open a
bank account, setup a broadband internet account or buy a post-pay cellphone
account without a workpermit.  Work permit requires a letter of employment
from a Thai company in order to get the proper visa BEFORE entering
Thailand.  The processing time for the workpermit application is 3 - 12
months, and if granted then your visa is extended up to one year from date
of application and the work permit is issued, allowing for bank accounts,
telephones, internet at home, etc.

The work permit is not a document that allows you to go find work, like a US
social security number does.  It restricts you to one specific job
description, working for one specific company in one specific physical
location;-)

Extensions, renewals and changing jobs gets even messier yet, but see if you
can get this far first.

There are many Irishmen with Thai wives, network locally for the horror
stories and tips.  If you are over 50 (and have money!) you may qualify for
a retirement visa.  If you get caught working on a retirement visa expect a
long sit in jail and do not expect any successful intervention on your
behalf by embassies, churches, family, etc.  Having a Thai wife helps a
little bit, having a child by a Thai wife removes most barriers.

Regards/Roger, in Bangkok

On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 5:10 PM, Richard Prosser <rhprosser@...>
wrote:

> Tomas,
>
> Re the local bank account.
>
> I don't know what Thailand is like but a few years ago Malaysian banks
> were very restrictive about what you could & couldn't do until you had
> a good credit record built up - over a period of years. It may be
> different in Thailand and it may well be different now in Malaysia but
> if you want to set up a local account, it might be best to ask your
> current bank for their advice / contacts / affiliations etc.
>
> RP
>
> 2008/7/15 peter green <plugwash@...>:
> >
> >> Paypal seems to me to be an expensive way to move money. Do
> >> I have a wrong impression?
> >>
> > It depends on how much money, when I enquired about an international
> > bank transfer (uk-germany) there was a flat fee (arround a tenner IIRC)
> > for all transactions up to a fairly large ammount (£10k or so iirc). I
> > don't know how favourable the exchange rate was but I would expect it to
> > be reasonable.
> >
> > Paypal has a much smaller upfront fee but takes a relatively high
> > percentage fee. Therefore it is a decent choice for small transactions
> > but bank transfers would probablly become cheaper past a few hundred
> pounds.
> >
> > This will almost certainly vary depending on the banks and currancies
> > you are dealing with.
> >
> > However you move money arround I would think a local bank account would
> > be pretty damn important to allow you to make your day to day
> > transactions without unacceptable fees (keeping large ammounts of cash
> > seems unwise to me).
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[Gerhard Fiedler]

Roger, in Bangkok wrote:

> The work permit is not a document that allows you to go find work, like a US
> social security number does.  

FWIW, a US SSN is no indication or proof of visa status. If you work in the
US, under any status, you must have one, but that's about as far as it
goes, relationship-wise. You get to keep it after your visa expires, and
you're not allowed to work then anymore, even though you still have a SSN.

> It restricts you to one specific job description, working for one
> specific company in one specific physical location;-)

This is exactly how a normal US work visa works (the often talked about
H1B, for example). You may or may not get a permanent visa (the pink "green
card" :) after a while, but until then you're restricted to the one
specific job at that one specific company in that one specific location you
got the visa for.

Gerhard

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