Forcing project rate to rate of imported file

[gale-3]

We have one item "Priority Aim To" item on Release Checklist that was
marked to be release noted, but never was. I did not add it yesterday
to "Known Issues" when I was going through because at least on
Windows it now appears to be fixed (due to Richard's work in this area?):

" Fix: Make all platforms consistently force Project Rate to the rate of
imported file irrespective whether that rate is supported or not.
Currently this does not work on Windows and results vary on Linux. Is
Michael's issue "1.3.3-beta and newer fill the "Project Rate" combo box
with several invalid frequencies, most likely picking them from a
hardcoded list without making sure the audio hardware can handle them"
related? When done, add a Preference to always have Project Rate remain
as per its Default Sample Rate Preference setting irrespective of the
file being imported (this is currently "not aiming for 1.4.0")."

I assume "Michael's issue" is resolved now, and the stated problem in
the first sentence of the above seems to be fixed for me. For example,
if my project rate is 44100 Hz and I import my first file at some odd rate
like 26500 Hz not in the project rate dropdown list, 1.3.5 rc5 will now
change the project rate to 26500 Hz. 1.3.4 release won't do this, but
would leave the rate at 44100 Hz, as does 1.2.6    

So is the assumption about desired behaviour in the first sentence
correct (I think so);  if so, is this also working on Mac and Linux, so
we can clear it?  The final sentence of the item about a new Preference
would be very popular in the longer term, for people who want to
export files of varying rates to CD.


Gale
   

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[Michael Schwendt]

On Tue, 06 May 2008 03:40:13 +0100, Gale Andrews wrote:

>
> We have one item "Priority Aim To" item on Release Checklist that was
> marked to be release noted, but never was. I did not add it yesterday
> to "Known Issues" when I was going through because at least on
> Windows it now appears to be fixed (due to Richard's work in this area?):
>
> " Fix: Make all platforms consistently force Project Rate to the rate of
> imported file irrespective whether that rate is supported or not.
> Currently this does not work on Windows and results vary on Linux. Is
> Michael's issue "1.3.3-beta and newer fill the "Project Rate" combo box
> with several invalid frequencies, most likely picking them from a
> hardcoded list without making sure the audio hardware can handle them"
> related? When done, add a Preference to always have Project Rate remain
> as per its Default Sample Rate Preference setting irrespective of the
> file being imported (this is currently "not aiming for 1.4.0")."
>
> I assume "Michael's issue" is resolved now, and the stated problem in
> the first sentence of the above seems to be fixed for me.

It appears to work since post 1.3.4-beta from cvs, i.e. some time around
January 2008. Earlier, there would be an error dialog for almost every
project rate in the list, saying that playback can't handle the rate.
(And yes, that was not due to missing resampling, but PortAudio weirdness.)

> For example,
> if my project rate is 44100 Hz and I import my first file at some odd rate
> like 26500 Hz not in the project rate dropdown list, 1.3.5 rc5 will now
> change the project rate to 26500 Hz. 1.3.4 release won't do this, but
> would leave the rate at 44100 Hz, as does 1.2.6    

That I cannot confirm with 1.3.5-rc3 cvs 2008-05-05. Project rate 48 kHz,
imported file is 11025 Hz (not in the list!), project rate stays at 48000,
Actual Rate is also 48000. Sounds fine, though. 11025 is not added to
the project rate list either.

If I import another file, which is 44100 Hz, everything stays at 48000 Hz,
and the mix still plays fine.

In comparison, with the same test-case, 1.3.2-beta shows 11025 in the
project rate list already at the start and switches to that rate during
first import.

--
Michael Schwendt <mschwendt@...>
Fedora release 8 (Werewolf) - Linux 2.6.23.15-137.fc8
loadavg: 1.67 1.27 1.11

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[Richard Ash (audacity-help)]

On Tue, 2008-05-06 at 11:37 +0200, Michael Schwendt wrote:

> On Tue, 06 May 2008 03:40:13 +0100, Gale Andrews wrote:
> > " Fix: Make all platforms consistently force Project Rate to the rate of
> > imported file irrespective whether that rate is supported or not.
> > Currently this does not work on Windows and results vary on Linux. Is
> > Michael's issue "1.3.3-beta and newer fill the "Project Rate" combo box
> > with several invalid frequencies, most likely picking them from a
> > hardcoded list without making sure the audio hardware can handle them"
> > related? When done, add a Preference to always have Project Rate remain
> > as per its Default Sample Rate Preference setting irrespective of the
> > file being imported (this is currently "not aiming for 1.4.0")."
> >
> > I assume "Michael's issue" is resolved now, and the stated problem in
> > the first sentence of the above seems to be fixed for me.

"Micheal's issue" never worked the way he thought it did, the problem
was that the code assumed the set of supported sample rates was the same
for record and playback, which it seems is often not true. This has
indeed been fixed for ages.

> It appears to work since post 1.3.4-beta from cvs, i.e. some time around
> January 2008. Earlier, there would be an error dialog for almost every
> project rate in the list, saying that playback can't handle the rate.
> (And yes, that was not due to missing resampling, but PortAudio weirdness.)
NO, it was because audacity thought playback would work without
resampling, but in fact wouldn't. Note that what audio I/O device you
select is critical for these tests.

> > For example,
> > if my project rate is 44100 Hz and I import my first file at some odd rate
> > like 26500 Hz not in the project rate dropdown list, 1.3.5 rc5 will now
> > change the project rate to 26500 Hz. 1.3.4 release won't do this, but
> > would leave the rate at 44100 Hz, as does 1.2.6    
>
> That I cannot confirm with 1.3.5-rc3 cvs 2008-05-05. Project rate 48 kHz,
> imported file is 11025 Hz (not in the list!), project rate stays at 48000,
> Actual Rate is also 48000. Sounds fine, though. 11025 is not added to
> the project rate list either.

I can't get this to test at all, because I can't get audacity to export
at the sample rate I select in the project rate box in the first place.
I know this is a known issue, but it rather gets in the way of creating
a file with a non-standard sample rate.

Nothing I did ever changed the project rate behaviour - it just fixed
the playback and recording so that selecting a random project rate was
much more likely to work because audacity would re-sample to something
the card could cope with.

Richard


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[gale-3]

| From Richard Ash <richard@...>
| Tue, 06 May 2008 22:43:56 +0100
| Subject: [Audacity-devel] Forcing project rate to rate of imported file
|  > On Tue, 2008-05-06 at 11:37 +0200, Michael Schwendt wrote:

> > On Tue, 06 May 2008 03:40:13 +0100, Gale Andrews wrote:
> > > For example,
> > > if my project rate is 44100 Hz and I import my first file at some odd rate
> > > like 26500 Hz not in the project rate dropdown list, 1.3.5 rc5 will now
> > > change the project rate to 26500 Hz. 1.3.4 release won't do this, but
> > > would leave the rate at 44100 Hz, as does 1.2.6    
> >
> > That I cannot confirm with 1.3.5-rc3 cvs 2008-05-05. Project rate 48 kHz,
> > imported file is 11025 Hz (not in the list!), project rate stays at 48000,
> > Actual Rate is also 48000. Sounds fine, though. 11025 is not added to
> > the project rate list either.
>
> I can't get this to test at all, because I can't get audacity to export
> at the sample rate I select in the project rate box in the first place.
> I know this is a known issue, but it rather gets in the way of creating
> a file with a non-standard sample rate.

*Typing* a rate does not work, but what about the workround on the
online "known issues" page (not replicated in README because of the
length):

"... go to Quality tab of Preferences, select "Other" in "Default Sample
Rate" and type the required rate in the box to right of the dropdown."

> Nothing I did ever changed the project rate behaviour - it just fixed
> the playback and recording so that selecting a random project rate was
> much more likely to work because audacity would re-sample to something
> the card could cope with.

That's rather as I would have guessed, but in that case why does changing
the rate to that of the first imported file now work on Windows? Some
Portaudio interaction? I've double checked on my second machine, and
it's the same (made sure I cleared audacity.cfg except the top line), and
someone else I know on Vista finds likewise. Anyone on Mac able to test?    

It's fair to say that Windows and Linux behaviour was different in the
other direction at the time of 1.3.2 - if I recall then, Linux was
changing the project rate to that of the imported file, but Windows
wasn't, which was when this discussion started.  

Having this as a known issue on README does depend on the
assumption that we'd prefer the rate to always change upon import
of the first file, but given this did previously work on Linux and
now maybe doesn't, perhaps for completeness this should be in
README?  I'll assume that unless someone disagrees.



Gale

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[Michael Schwendt]

On Tue, 06 May 2008 22:43:56 +0100, Richard Ash wrote:

> On Tue, 2008-05-06 at 11:37 +0200, Michael Schwendt wrote:
> > On Tue, 06 May 2008 03:40:13 +0100, Gale Andrews wrote:
> > > " Fix: Make all platforms consistently force Project Rate to the rate of
> > > imported file irrespective whether that rate is supported or not.
> > > Currently this does not work on Windows and results vary on Linux. Is
> > > Michael's issue "1.3.3-beta and newer fill the "Project Rate" combo box
> > > with several invalid frequencies, most likely picking them from a
> > > hardcoded list without making sure the audio hardware can handle them"
> > > related? When done, add a Preference to always have Project Rate remain
> > > as per its Default Sample Rate Preference setting irrespective of the
> > > file being imported (this is currently "not aiming for 1.4.0")."
> > >
> > > I assume "Michael's issue" is resolved now, and the stated problem in
> > > the first sentence of the above seems to be fixed for me.
> "Micheal's issue" never worked the way he thought it did, the problem
> was that the code assumed the set of supported sample rates was the same
> for record and playback, which it seems is often not true. This has
> indeed been fixed for ages.
>
> > It appears to work since post 1.3.4-beta from cvs, i.e. some time around
> > January 2008. Earlier, there would be an error dialog for almost every
> > project rate in the list, saying that playback can't handle the rate.
> > (And yes, that was not due to missing resampling, but PortAudio weirdness.)
> NO, it was because audacity thought playback would work without
> resampling, but in fact wouldn't. Note that what audio I/O device you
> select is critical for these tests.

:)

I'm sure we talk about the same thing.
It doesn't really matter what happens under the hood (I've developed
low-level audio drivers before, so I'm somewhat familiar with the
requirements of audio I/O interface layers). All that counts is what
behaviour the Audacity user is confronted with. And for me it was that
since 1.3.3-beta I could not even load and play a pretty standard 44.1 kHz
WAV file. Discussing it in the forum lead to the suggestion that I have
to find a supported sample rate myself, which sounded like a highly
questionable suggestion. The user doesn't care at all whether the audio
hardware possibly expects 48 or 96 kHz data only and requires the software
to apply resampling in order to support other frequencies.
It's also clear that project rate and output sample rate may differ.
The basic test only was about importing and playing a file.

--
Michael Schwendt <mschwendt@...>
Fedora release 8 (Werewolf) - Linux 2.6.23.15-137.fc8
loadavg: 1.38 1.24 1.17

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