Fiero GE Series Motor Cabling

[Peter Eckhoff]

Hello EVDL,

We are recabling a Fiero and we want to do it right.

What is the proper motor cabling sequence for a Fiero with a GE Series
motor and a Curtis controller (e.g. B+ on Curtis to A1 on motor, A2 on
Motor to S? on motor, etc.)?

The plate markings on the GE Motor are not clear but they appear to be:

GE 12
Mod No. 5BT1346B51  HP 23
Series  V 99.4  A(?)   201
No. 198-644-18  RPM 3285 Ingl(?)   BV
Duty 1 hr 140c(?)  ? File   ?   ?

Any help on interpreting the plate numbers would be appreciated.

What is the difference between a GE Series motor and a GE Sepex motor?

Peter

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[Zeke Yewdall]

Looks like it's a series motor rated for 23HP for one hour, 99.4 volts, 201
amps, 3285rpm.  140C rated insulation.   Maybe a 12" motor from the GE 12?
I'm not sure of what the difference between the series and sepex motors is,
other than the obvious one of one being series and one being sepex....  Mine
is a 13" GE Sepex motor, but I've never seen a GE series motor to compare it
to.

Z

On Thu, Dec 4, 2008 at 9:16 PM, Peter Eckhoff <peckhoff@...> wrote:

> Hello EVDL,
>
> We are recabling a Fiero and we want to do it right.
>
> What is the proper motor cabling sequence for a Fiero with a GE Series
> motor and a Curtis controller (e.g. B+ on Curtis to A1 on motor, A2 on
> Motor to S? on motor, etc.)?
>
> The plate markings on the GE Motor are not clear but they appear to be:
>
> GE 12
> Mod No. 5BT1346B51  HP 23
> Series  V 99.4  A(?)   201
> No. 198-644-18  RPM 3285 Ingl(?)   BV
> Duty 1 hr 140c(?)  ? File   ?   ?
>
> Any help on interpreting the plate numbers would be appreciated.
>
> What is the difference between a GE Series motor and a GE Sepex motor?
>
> Peter
>
> _______________________________________________
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> Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
> Archives: http://evdl.org/archive/
> Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
>

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[evdesigner]

When I worked at GE-EVS from 1993 to 1996, we donated many
5BT1346B50 series motors to colleges and high schools for EV
competitions/EV programs.  It had the same name-plate data,
here's some curves and a diagram;
http://www.evalbum.com/tech/ge2.gif
http://www.evalbum.com/tech/ge3.gif
http://www.evalbum.com/tech/ge1.gif
The lower voltage sepex motors were the same as the series motors
except the field was wound with smaller wire, but effectively had
the same amp*turns (this is what produces torque.  I.E. you could have
10 turns of 4 GA copper on a series motor, or 100 turns of 14 GA on the sepex.  To produce the same amount of torque you would run 100 amps on the series winding or 10 amps on the sepex winding, while 100amps goes through the armature).
The higher voltage sepex motors had interpoles, like the
motor used in the TEVAN;
http://picasaweb.google.com/rodnhower/TEVan# 


--- On Fri, 12/5/08, Zeke Yewdall <zyewdall@...> wrote:

> From: Zeke Yewdall <zyewdall@...>
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Fiero GE Series Motor Cabling
> To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@...>
> Date: Friday, December 5, 2008, 6:58 AM
> Looks like it's a series motor rated for 23HP for one
> hour, 99.4 volts, 201
> amps, 3285rpm.  140C rated insulation.   Maybe a 12"
> motor from the GE 12?
> I'm not sure of what the difference between the series
> and sepex motors is,
> other than the obvious one of one being series and one
> being sepex....  Mine
> is a 13" GE Sepex motor, but I've never seen a GE
> series motor to compare it
> to.
>
> Z
>
> On Thu, Dec 4, 2008 at 9:16 PM, Peter Eckhoff
> <peckhoff@...> wrote:
>
> > Hello EVDL,
> >
> > We are recabling a Fiero and we want to do it right.
> >
> > What is the proper motor cabling sequence for a Fiero
> with a GE Series
> > motor and a Curtis controller (e.g. B+ on Curtis to A1
> on motor, A2 on
> > Motor to S? on motor, etc.)?
> >
> > The plate markings on the GE Motor are not clear but
> they appear to be:
> >
> > GE 12
> > Mod No. 5BT1346B51  HP 23
> > Series  V 99.4  A(?)   201
> > No. 198-644-18  RPM 3285 Ingl(?)   BV
> > Duty 1 hr 140c(?)  ? File   ?   ?
> >
> > Any help on interpreting the plate numbers would be
> appreciated.
> >
> > What is the difference between a GE Series motor and a
> GE Sepex motor?
> >
> > Peter
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > General EVDL support: http://evdl.org/help/
> > Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
> > Archives: http://evdl.org/archive/
> > Subscription options:
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> >
> >
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[Cor van de Water]

This exact same motor was in "Techsan"'s WattaBMR which
was in a crash several years ago and recently sold to another
EV'er looking for the parts from an unfinished project, so
he ended up with a Salvage BMW 320 EV and another 320 to
become the new WattaBMR.
I visited Michael and even have some photos of that motor.
He ran it with a 192V pack of AGMs for good performance,
since he put it in a BMW...

Regards,

Cor van de Water
Director HW & Systems Architecture Group
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: CWater@...    Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water     IM: cor_van_de_water@...
Tel: [phone]        VoIP: [phone] FWD# 25925
Tel: [phone]x109 XoIP: [phone]

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-----Original Message-----
From: ev-bounces@... [mailto:ev-bounces@...] On
Behalf Of Zeke Yewdall
Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 8:28 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Fiero GE Series Motor Cabling

Looks like it's a series motor rated for 23HP for one hour, 99.4 volts,
201
amps, 3285rpm.  140C rated insulation.   Maybe a 12" motor from the GE
12?
I'm not sure of what the difference between the series and sepex motors
is, other than the obvious one of one being series and one being
sepex....  Mine is a 13" GE Sepex motor, but I've never seen a GE series
motor to compare it to.

Z

On Thu, Dec 4, 2008 at 9:16 PM, Peter Eckhoff <peckhoff@...>
wrote:

> Hello EVDL,
>
> We are recabling a Fiero and we want to do it right.
>
> What is the proper motor cabling sequence for a Fiero with a GE Series

> motor and a Curtis controller (e.g. B+ on Curtis to A1 on motor, A2 on

> Motor to S? on motor, etc.)?
>
> The plate markings on the GE Motor are not clear but they appear to
be:

>
> GE 12
> Mod No. 5BT1346B51  HP 23
> Series  V 99.4  A(?)   201
> No. 198-644-18  RPM 3285 Ingl(?)   BV
> Duty 1 hr 140c(?)  ? File   ?   ?
>
> Any help on interpreting the plate numbers would be appreciated.
>
> What is the difference between a GE Series motor and a GE Sepex motor?
>
> Peter
>
> _______________________________________________
> General EVDL support: http://evdl.org/help/ Usage guidelines:
> http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
> Archives: http://evdl.org/archive/
> Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
>

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[Robert MacDowell]

Peter Eckhoff wrote:
> Hello EVDL,
>
> We are recabling a Fiero and we want to do it right.
>
> What is the proper motor cabling sequence for a Fiero with a GE Series
> motor and a Curtis controller (e.g. B+ on Curtis to A1 on motor, A2 on
> Motor to S? on motor, etc.)?

It's a standard series wound motor, right?  A1 A2 S1 S2?

Is there any reason it shouldn't be wired in the conventional way one
wires all series-wound motors... Jumper one of the A's to one of the
S's.  Connect B+ and B- to the remaining terminals.   Then swap S1 and
S2 if the motor runs the wrong direction.

And correct me if I'm wrong, if the motor doesn't have interpoles, it's
optimized to spin in one direction efficiently.  You had to get that
right at the time of physical installation.  You can't correct it by
swapping wires... right?

Robert

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[Dan Bentler]

Reversing either the armature or the field will reverse a DC motor.

Dan Bentler


--- On Fri, 12/5/08, Robert MacDowell <bobmac@...> wrote:

> From: Robert MacDowell <bobmac@...>
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Fiero GE Series Motor Cabling
> To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@...>
> Date: Friday, December 5, 2008, 2:01 PM
> Peter Eckhoff wrote:
> > Hello EVDL,
> >
> > We are recabling a Fiero and we want to do it right.
> >
> > What is the proper motor cabling sequence for a Fiero
> with a GE Series
> > motor and a Curtis controller (e.g. B+ on Curtis to A1
> on motor, A2 on
> > Motor to S? on motor, etc.)?
>
> It's a standard series wound motor, right?  A1 A2 S1
> S2?
>
> Is there any reason it shouldn't be wired in the
> conventional way one
> wires all series-wound motors... Jumper one of the A's
> to one of the
> S's.  Connect B+ and B- to the remaining terminals.  
> Then swap S1 and
> S2 if the motor runs the wrong direction.
>
> And correct me if I'm wrong, if the motor doesn't
> have interpoles, it's
> optimized to spin in one direction efficiently.  You had to
> get that
> right at the time of physical installation.  You can't
> correct it by
> swapping wires... right?
>
> Robert
>
> _______________________________________________
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[Peter Eckhoff]

Hello Robert,

We were trying to find out ahead of time the proper way to cable a GE
series motor in a Fiero. We are down to our last two lugs and we did not
want to waste lugs by cabling it the opposite way.  I understand that
Honda rotate in the opposite direction to go forward but we were not
sure of a Fiero.

Also, we wanted to confirm that we had a GE Series motor and not a Sepex.

We are trying to finish this car up so we could drive it in a parade
next weekend.



Robert MacDowell wrote:

> Peter Eckhoff wrote:
>  
>> Hello EVDL,
>>
>> We are recabling a Fiero and we want to do it right.
>>
>> What is the proper motor cabling sequence for a Fiero with a GE Series
>> motor and a Curtis controller (e.g. B+ on Curtis to A1 on motor, A2 on
>> Motor to S? on motor, etc.)?
>>    
>
> It's a standard series wound motor, right?  A1 A2 S1 S2?
>
> Is there any reason it shouldn't be wired in the conventional way one
> wires all series-wound motors... Jumper one of the A's to one of the
> S's.  Connect B+ and B- to the remaining terminals.   Then swap S1 and
> S2 if the motor runs the wrong direction.
>
> And correct me if I'm wrong, if the motor doesn't have interpoles, it's
> optimized to spin in one direction efficiently.  You had to get that
> right at the time of physical installation.  You can't correct it by
> swapping wires... right?
>
> Robert
>
> _______________________________________________
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>
>
>
>  

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[Josh Wyatt]

Peter Eckhoff wrote:

> Hello Robert,
>
> We were trying to find out ahead of time the proper way to cable a GE
> series motor in a Fiero. We are down to our last two lugs and we did not
> want to waste lugs by cabling it the opposite way.  I understand that
> Honda rotate in the opposite direction to go forward but we were not
> sure of a Fiero.
>
> Also, we wanted to confirm that we had a GE Series motor and not a Sepex.
>
> We are trying to finish this car up so we could drive it in a parade
> next weekend.

Pete, I have a couple extra lugs I can give you, if needed; I have both standard 2/0 cable lugs and 2/0 magnalugs.

Thanks,
Josh in Raleigh, NC

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[Robert MacDowell]

I'd try improvising the connection with a 6 or 12V battery and jumper
cables to see which way the motor will turn.  Jackstand the drive wheels
and chock the non-drive wheels of course.

We do the big version of that all the time at the railway museum, test a
traction motor using a welder...

Given the dramatic difference in wire size sepex vs. series, if you can
peek inside the motor with a mirror or something at the internal
connections to the S1 and S2 posts, that should tell all.

What would happen if you tried to series-connect a sepex motor?  My
guess is, very little...

Robert

Peter Eckhoff wrote:

> Hello Robert,
>
> We were trying to find out ahead of time the proper way to cable a GE
> series motor in a Fiero. We are down to our last two lugs and we did not
> want to waste lugs by cabling it the opposite way.  I understand that
> Honda rotate in the opposite direction to go forward but we were not
> sure of a Fiero.
>
> Also, we wanted to confirm that we had a GE Series motor and not a Sepex.
>
> We are trying to finish this car up so we could drive it in a parade
> next weekend.
>
>
>
> Robert MacDowell wrote:
>> Peter Eckhoff wrote:
>>  
>>> Hello EVDL,
>>>
>>> We are recabling a Fiero and we want to do it right.
>>>
>>> What is the proper motor cabling sequence for a Fiero with a GE Series
>>> motor and a Curtis controller (e.g. B+ on Curtis to A1 on motor, A2 on
>>> Motor to S? on motor, etc.)?
>>>    
>> It's a standard series wound motor, right?  A1 A2 S1 S2?
>>
>> Is there any reason it shouldn't be wired in the conventional way one
>> wires all series-wound motors... Jumper one of the A's to one of the
>> S's.  Connect B+ and B- to the remaining terminals.   Then swap S1 and
>> S2 if the motor runs the wrong direction.
>>
>> And correct me if I'm wrong, if the motor doesn't have interpoles, it's
>> optimized to spin in one direction efficiently.  You had to get that
>> right at the time of physical installation.  You can't correct it by
>> swapping wires... right?
>>
>> Robert
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> General EVDL support: http://evdl.org/help/
>> Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
>> Archives: http://evdl.org/archive/
>> Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>>
>>
>>
>>  
>
>
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[evdesigner]

Peter,
My first EV (got it running 1993) was a Fiero, shown here in my driveway after selling it to Jim Wierick,
http://www.evalbum.com/264
It doesn't run in the reverse direction like a Honda.
Please post pictures of the event.
I posted information earlier for a 5BT1346B50 series motor.
I'm not sure what the difference is with a B51
http://www.evalbum.com/tech/ge2.gif
The series motor will have S1 and S2 connections for the series field.
A Sepex motor would be labeled with F1 and F2.
Perhaps you could post a picture of the motor?
Rod


--- On Fri, 12/5/08, Peter Eckhoff <peckhoff@...> wrote:

> From: Peter Eckhoff <peckhoff@...>
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Fiero GE Series Motor Cabling
> To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@...>
> Date: Friday, December 5, 2008, 5:38 PM
> Hello Robert,
>
> We were trying to find out ahead of time the proper way to
> cable a GE
> series motor in a Fiero. We are down to our last two lugs
> and we did not
> want to waste lugs by cabling it the opposite way.  I
> understand that
> Honda rotate in the opposite direction to go forward but we
> were not
> sure of a Fiero.
>
> Also, we wanted to confirm that we had a GE Series motor
> and not a Sepex.
>
> We are trying to finish this car up so we could drive it in
> a parade
> next weekend.
>
>
>
> Robert MacDowell wrote:
> > Peter Eckhoff wrote:
> >  
> >> Hello EVDL,
> >>
> >> We are recabling a Fiero and we want to do it
> right.
> >>
> >> What is the proper motor cabling sequence for a
> Fiero with a GE Series
> >> motor and a Curtis controller (e.g. B+ on Curtis
> to A1 on motor, A2 on
> >> Motor to S? on motor, etc.)?
> >>    
> >
> > It's a standard series wound motor, right?  A1 A2
> S1 S2?
> >
> > Is there any reason it shouldn't be wired in the
> conventional way one
> > wires all series-wound motors... Jumper one of the
> A's to one of the
> > S's.  Connect B+ and B- to the remaining
> terminals.   Then swap S1 and
> > S2 if the motor runs the wrong direction.
> >
> > And correct me if I'm wrong, if the motor
> doesn't have interpoles, it's
> > optimized to spin in one direction efficiently.  You
> had to get that
> > right at the time of physical installation.  You
> can't correct it by
> > swapping wires... right?
> >
> > Robert
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > General EVDL support: http://evdl.org/help/
> > Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
> > Archives: http://evdl.org/archive/
> > Subscription options:
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> >
> >
> >
> >  
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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[Cor van de Water]

It is very easy to determine if a motor is series
or Sepex without opening anything or scouting for
obsolete information, simply measure the resistance
of the field winding.
If it is below 0.1 Ohm then it is guaranteed series
because it needs to be able to take full Armature current.
If it is in the order of 10 Ohms then it is guaranteed
a Sepex (shunt motor) because it needs to be able to
take the full pack voltage.

Regards,

Cor van de Water
Director HW & Systems Architecture Group
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: CWater@...    Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water     IM: cor_van_de_water@...
Tel: [phone]        VoIP: [phone] FWD# 25925
Tel: [phone]x109 XoIP: [phone]

Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail.
-----Original Message-----
From: ev-bounces@... [mailto:ev-bounces@...] On
Behalf Of rodhower@...
Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2008 10:40 AM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Fiero GE Series Motor Cabling

Peter,
My first EV (got it running 1993) was a Fiero, shown here in my driveway
after selling it to Jim Wierick,
http://www.evalbum.com/264
It doesn't run in the reverse direction like a Honda.
Please post pictures of the event.
I posted information earlier for a 5BT1346B50 series motor.
I'm not sure what the difference is with a B51
http://www.evalbum.com/tech/ge2.gif
The series motor will have S1 and S2 connections for the series field.
A Sepex motor would be labeled with F1 and F2.
Perhaps you could post a picture of the motor?
Rod


--- On Fri, 12/5/08, Peter Eckhoff <peckhoff@...> wrote:

> From: Peter Eckhoff <peckhoff@...>
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Fiero GE Series Motor Cabling
> To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@...>
> Date: Friday, December 5, 2008, 5:38 PM Hello Robert,
>
> We were trying to find out ahead of time the proper way to cable a GE
> series motor in a Fiero. We are down to our last two lugs and we did
> not want to waste lugs by cabling it the opposite way.  I understand
> that Honda rotate in the opposite direction to go forward but we were
> not sure of a Fiero.
>
> Also, we wanted to confirm that we had a GE Series motor and not a
> Sepex.
>
> We are trying to finish this car up so we could drive it in a parade
> next weekend.
>
>
>
> Robert MacDowell wrote:
> > Peter Eckhoff wrote:
> >  
> >> Hello EVDL,
> >>
> >> We are recabling a Fiero and we want to do it
> right.
> >>
> >> What is the proper motor cabling sequence for a
> Fiero with a GE Series
> >> motor and a Curtis controller (e.g. B+ on Curtis
> to A1 on motor, A2 on
> >> Motor to S? on motor, etc.)?
> >>    
> >
> > It's a standard series wound motor, right?  A1 A2
> S1 S2?
> >
> > Is there any reason it shouldn't be wired in the
> conventional way one
> > wires all series-wound motors... Jumper one of the
> A's to one of the
> > S's.  Connect B+ and B- to the remaining
> terminals.   Then swap S1 and
> > S2 if the motor runs the wrong direction.
> >
> > And correct me if I'm wrong, if the motor
> doesn't have interpoles, it's
> > optimized to spin in one direction efficiently.  You
> had to get that
> > right at the time of physical installation.  You
> can't correct it by
> > swapping wires... right?
> >
> > Robert
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > General EVDL support: http://evdl.org/help/ Usage guidelines:
> > http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
> > Archives: http://evdl.org/archive/
> > Subscription options:
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> >
> >
> >
> >  
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
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[Cor van de Water]

Series motors are reversible by nature, just swap
either the Field or Armature connections and turn the
Brush to advance them in the opposite direction. Done.

Success,

Cor van de Water
Director HW & Systems Architecture Group
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: CWater@...    Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water     IM: cor_van_de_water@...
Tel: [phone]        VoIP: [phone] FWD# 25925
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-----Original Message-----
From: ev-bounces@... [mailto:ev-bounces@...] On
Behalf Of Robert MacDowell
Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2008 3:31 AM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Fiero GE Series Motor Cabling

Peter Eckhoff wrote:
> Hello EVDL,
>
> We are recabling a Fiero and we want to do it right.
>
> What is the proper motor cabling sequence for a Fiero with a GE Series

> motor and a Curtis controller (e.g. B+ on Curtis to A1 on motor, A2 on

> Motor to S? on motor, etc.)?

It's a standard series wound motor, right?  A1 A2 S1 S2?

Is there any reason it shouldn't be wired in the conventional way one
wires all series-wound motors... Jumper one of the A's to one of the
S's.  Connect B+ and B- to the remaining terminals.   Then swap S1 and
S2 if the motor runs the wrong direction.

And correct me if I'm wrong, if the motor doesn't have interpoles, it's
optimized to spin in one direction efficiently.  You had to get that
right at the time of physical installation.  You can't correct it by
swapping wires... right?

Robert

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[David Dymaxion]

Just another data point, the field on my sepex motor is 1 Ohm.




________________________________
From: Cor van de Water <CWater@...>
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@...>
Sent: Saturday, December 6, 2008 10:36:20 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Fiero GE Series Motor Cabling

It is very easy to determine if a motor is series
or Sepex without opening anything or scouting for
obsolete information, simply measure the resistance
of the field winding.
If it is below 0.1 Ohm then it is guaranteed series
because it needs to be able to take full Armature current.
If it is in the order of 10 Ohms then it is guaranteed
a Sepex (shunt motor) because it needs to be able to
take the full pack voltage.

Regards,

Cor van de Water
Director HW & Systems Architecture Group
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: CWater@...    Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water     IM: cor_van_de_water@...
Tel: [phone]        VoIP: [phone] FWD# 25925
Tel: [phone]x109 XoIP: [phone]

Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail.
-----Original Message-----
From: ev-bounces@... [mailto:ev-bounces@...] On
Behalf Of rodhower@...
Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2008 10:40 AM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Fiero GE Series Motor Cabling

Peter,
My first EV (got it running 1993) was a Fiero, shown here in my driveway
after selling it to Jim Wierick,
http://www.evalbum.com/264
It doesn't run in the reverse direction like a Honda.
Please post pictures of the event.
I posted information earlier for a 5BT1346B50 series motor.
I'm not sure what the difference is with a B51
http://www.evalbum.com/tech/ge2.gif
The series motor will have S1 and S2 connections for the series field.
A Sepex motor would be labeled with F1 and F2.
Perhaps you could post a picture of the motor?
Rod


--- On Fri, 12/5/08, Peter Eckhoff <peckhoff@...> wrote:

> From: Peter Eckhoff <peckhoff@...>
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Fiero GE Series Motor Cabling
> To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@...>
> Date: Friday, December 5, 2008, 5:38 PM Hello Robert,
>
> We were trying to find out ahead of time the proper way to cable a GE
> series motor in a Fiero. We are down to our last two lugs and we did
> not want to waste lugs by cabling it the opposite way.  I understand
> that Honda rotate in the opposite direction to go forward but we were
> not sure of a Fiero.
>
> Also, we wanted to confirm that we had a GE Series motor and not a
> Sepex.
>
> We are trying to finish this car up so we could drive it in a parade
> next weekend.
>
>
>
> Robert MacDowell wrote:
> > Peter Eckhoff wrote:
> >  
> >> Hello EVDL,
> >>
> >> We are recabling a Fiero and we want to do it
> right.
> >>
> >> What is the proper motor cabling sequence for a
> Fiero with a GE Series
> >> motor and a Curtis controller (e.g. B+ on Curtis
> to A1 on motor, A2 on
> >> Motor to S? on motor, etc.)?
> >>    
> >
> > It's a standard series wound motor, right?  A1 A2
> S1 S2?
> >
> > Is there any reason it shouldn't be wired in the
> conventional way one
> > wires all series-wound motors... Jumper one of the
> A's to one of the
> > S's.  Connect B+ and B- to the remaining
> terminals.   Then swap S1 and
> > S2 if the motor runs the wrong direction.
> >
> > And correct me if I'm wrong, if the motor
> doesn't have interpoles, it's
> > optimized to spin in one direction efficiently.  You
> had to get that
> > right at the time of physical installation.  You
> can't correct it by
> > swapping wires... right?
> >
> > Robert
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > General EVDL support: http://evdl.org/help/ Usage guidelines:
> > http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
> > Archives: http://evdl.org/archive/
> > Subscription options:
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> >
> >
> >
> >  
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> General EVDL support: http://evdl.org/help/ Usage guidelines:
> http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
> Archives: http://evdl.org/archive/
> Subscription options:
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev

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[Cor van de Water]

What is the spec for volts and amps on your field winding?
It is lower than I expected but not as low as a series motor
would be.

Regards,

Cor van de Water
Director HW & Systems Architecture Group
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: CWater@...    Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water     IM: cor_van_de_water@...
Tel: [phone]        VoIP: [phone] FWD# 25925
Tel: [phone]x109 XoIP: [phone]

Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail.
-----Original Message-----
From: ev-bounces@... [mailto:ev-bounces@...] On
Behalf Of David Dymaxion
Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 12:08 AM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Fiero GE Series Motor Cabling

Just another data point, the field on my sepex motor is 1 Ohm.




________________________________
From: Cor van de Water <CWater@...>
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@...>
Sent: Saturday, December 6, 2008 10:36:20 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Fiero GE Series Motor Cabling

It is very easy to determine if a motor is series or Sepex without
opening anything or scouting for obsolete information, simply measure
the resistance of the field winding.
If it is below 0.1 Ohm then it is guaranteed series because it needs to
be able to take full Armature current.
If it is in the order of 10 Ohms then it is guaranteed a Sepex (shunt
motor) because it needs to be able to take the full pack voltage.

Regards,

Cor van de Water
Director HW & Systems Architecture Group Proxim Wireless Corporation
http://www.proxim.com
Email: CWater@...    Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water     IM: cor_van_de_water@...
Tel: [phone]        VoIP: [phone] FWD# 25925
Tel: [phone]x109 XoIP: [phone]

Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail.
-----Original Message-----
From: ev-bounces@... [mailto:ev-bounces@...] On
Behalf Of rodhower@...
Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2008 10:40 AM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Fiero GE Series Motor Cabling

Peter,
My first EV (got it running 1993) was a Fiero, shown here in my driveway
after selling it to Jim Wierick,
http://www.evalbum.com/264
It doesn't run in the reverse direction like a Honda.
Please post pictures of the event.
I posted information earlier for a 5BT1346B50 series motor.
I'm not sure what the difference is with a B51
http://www.evalbum.com/tech/ge2.gif
The series motor will have S1 and S2 connections for the series field.
A Sepex motor would be labeled with F1 and F2.
Perhaps you could post a picture of the motor?
Rod


--- On Fri, 12/5/08, Peter Eckhoff <peckhoff@...> wrote:

> From: Peter Eckhoff <peckhoff@...>
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Fiero GE Series Motor Cabling
> To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@...>
> Date: Friday, December 5, 2008, 5:38 PM Hello Robert,
>
> We were trying to find out ahead of time the proper way to cable a GE
> series motor in a Fiero. We are down to our last two lugs and we did
> not want to waste lugs by cabling it the opposite way.  I understand
> that Honda rotate in the opposite direction to go forward but we were
> not sure of a Fiero.
>
> Also, we wanted to confirm that we had a GE Series motor and not a
> Sepex.
>
> We are trying to finish this car up so we could drive it in a parade
> next weekend.
>
>
>
> Robert MacDowell wrote:
> > Peter Eckhoff wrote:
> >  
> >> Hello EVDL,
> >>
> >> We are recabling a Fiero and we want to do it
> right.
> >>
> >> What is the proper motor cabling sequence for a
> Fiero with a GE Series
> >> motor and a Curtis controller (e.g. B+ on Curtis
> to A1 on motor, A2 on
> >> Motor to S? on motor, etc.)?
> >>    
> >
> > It's a standard series wound motor, right?  A1 A2
> S1 S2?
> >
> > Is there any reason it shouldn't be wired in the
> conventional way one
> > wires all series-wound motors... Jumper one of the
> A's to one of the
> > S's.  Connect B+ and B- to the remaining
> terminals.   Then swap S1 and
> > S2 if the motor runs the wrong direction.
> >
> > And correct me if I'm wrong, if the motor
> doesn't have interpoles, it's
> > optimized to spin in one direction efficiently.  You
> had to get that
> > right at the time of physical installation.  You
> can't correct it by
> > swapping wires... right?
> >
> > Robert
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > General EVDL support: http://evdl.org/help/ Usage guidelines:
> > http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
> > Archives: http://evdl.org/archive/
> > Subscription options:
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> >
> >
> >
> >  
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> General EVDL support: http://evdl.org/help/ Usage guidelines:
> http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
> Archives: http://evdl.org/archive/
> Subscription options:
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev

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[evdesigner]

Cor wrote,
"If it is in the order of 10 Ohms then it is guaranteed
a Sepex (shunt motor) because it needs to be able to
take the full pack voltage."

Typically a shunt motor is designed to run at full system voltage and expected to operate at a relatively constant operating point.

A sepex motor has fewer turns than a shunt and would burn up relatively quickly operating at full system voltage.  The motor is designed to be operated with a controller that optimizes field strength needed for the particular operating point.
There have been many discussions on this list regarding the differences (or similarities} of these terms.  I'm speaking for the way they were used when I worked at Caterpillar on forklift controls and at GE when I worked on forklift, golf cart, electric greensmowers, utility vehicles, NEV and on-road vehicle controls.  
The most important point I would like to make is that you would not want to attempt connecting the sepex field directly across pack voltage on something like a golf-cart or NEV.  It would get hot relatively quickly and burn up the field windings.  I don't recall going much above 36% duty cycle on a fully charged battery pack of an NEV (that would approximately be 80V*36% or 29V on the field during normal driving).
Rod


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[David Dymaxion]

Unfortunately I have not been able to find a spec.

My understanding is a shunt motor wants the full voltage across the field, so it'll have more resistance. A sepex wants some reserve, so you can "overvolt" the field to get regen, so it has less resistance, but full pack voltage will overcurrent it. With 12 Volts on the field and armature my motor turns about 500 rpm.

Using several low voltages, I derived this approximate equation:

f = (200 rpm) + (300 rpm) * (Varmature / Vfield)

Note this equation is good only for my motor, and not electric motors in general. The parameters may change a bit with higher voltages.

Wayland ran his Kostov up to about 5000 rpm. If I run 288 Volts on the armature, that means I would need to run just 18 Volts to idle at 5000 rpm, and 9 Volts for max power at max rpm. I'm going to have to creep up on this by gradually raising the armature voltage and checking for arcing or other problems. I have run the field on 12 volts for long times and things remain stone cold, so the field should be up to 9 to 18 volts just fine. Voltages over 18 volts would give me regen.

The other end is more stressful on the field. If I wanted to idle at 500 rpm with 288 Volts on the armature, it would take 288 Volts on the field, which would certainly burn it out. If I go to 36 field Volts it'll idle at 2600 rpm, and 72 volts would idle at 1400 rpm (livable). But can the field handle 72 Volts? I'll have to creep up on that and see at what voltage it starts getting hot.

If I can't volt the field high enough to get the rpm down low enough, then I'll have to drop the armature voltage (via series/parallel or controller).

If anyone has real-life Kostov sepex numbers please let me know! Otherwise I'll report what I find later.




________________________________
From: Cor van de Water <CWater@...>
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@...>
Sent: Saturday, December 6, 2008 12:05:30 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Fiero GE Series Motor Cabling

What is the spec for volts and amps on your field winding?
It is lower than I expected but not as low as a series motor
would be.


     
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Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
Archives: http://evdl.org/archive/
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