Feedback - feature request :)

[Thomas Nemeth-3]

    Hi!

    I am (was) the main developper of the now abandonned gacc personnal
    finance manager software. I have switched to kmymoney some time ago
    since I don't have time to continue developping gacc (and besides I
    use KDE so...)

    I have some things to comment about kmymoney usage and feature I'd
    love to see implemented.

    Usability:
    - when entering an operation previous versions allowed to
      automatically change month when reaching the end of the one
      already selectionned (eg: when I had previously entered an
      operation for the 29 september and the next one is for the
      02 october, I was able, using the keyboard, to step through
      the end of september and began with the 1st of october) but
      this is no more the case :( Could this behavior be restored?
    - there is a need for a keyboard shortcut configuration to mark
      an operation as cleared.

    Feature:
    <Use case>
    I manage the money for my whole family: joint bank accounts, my own
    accounts and my children's ones. Sometimes my wife needs to manage
    her own accounts using her user login. The last (not released)
    version of gacc included a client/server mode that allowed users to
    access (read, read/write or none) stored accounts in a way similar
    to database managers. This seems to be a little overkill now.

    I'd like me to access all my account and the joint accounts fully.
    My wife needs to access her own accounts. None of us needs to access
    the other's accounts, but both of us need to access our joint
    accounts and our children's accounts.

    There are several ways to acheive this feature:
    1. to implement a database-like system
    2. to change the in-file format adding users-passwords to accounts
    3. to use the files permissions allowing a user to open or not a
       data file

    The last may be the easier to implement as it is already functionnal
    this way. But, for better usability/ergonomy, it implies the
    possibility to open several files at the same time (in order to
    avoid switching between files). This way, my wife would be able to
    open her own accounts, our joint accounts and our children's
    accounts. And I would be able to open my own accounts, our joint
    accounts and our children's accounts. Our children will be able to
    open their own account.


    Thanks to you for having read up to here :) I hope this will awake
    some thoughts in your developper's community.

    Thanks for all, regards.

Thomas.
--
Thomas Nemeth / Ingénieur d'Études en Informatique Industrielle.

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[Alvaro Soliverez]

On Sat, Oct 11, 2008 at 11:45 AM, Thomas Nemeth <tnemeth@...> wrote:

   Hi!

   I am (was) the main developper of the now abandonned gacc personnal
   finance manager software. I have switched to kmymoney some time ago
   since I don't have time to continue developping gacc (and besides I
   use KDE so...)

   I have some things to comment about kmymoney usage and feature I'd
   love to see implemented.

   Usability:
   - when entering an operation previous versions allowed to
     automatically change month when reaching the end of the one
     already selectionned (eg: when I had previously entered an
     operation for the 29 september and the next one is for the
     02 october, I was able, using the keyboard, to step through
     the end of september and began with the 1st of october) but
     this is no more the case :( Could this behavior be restored?

I think this is a behavior of the Qt widget that has changed, but I will check.
I remember it worked that way before, though.
 

   - there is a need for a keyboard shortcut configuration to mark
     an operation as cleared.

You can mark it cleared with Alt+Ctrl+Space.
 

   Feature:
   <Use case>
   I manage the money for my whole family: joint bank accounts, my own
   accounts and my children's ones. Sometimes my wife needs to manage
   her own accounts using her user login. The last (not released)
   version of gacc included a client/server mode that allowed users to
   access (read, read/write or none) stored accounts in a way similar
   to database managers. This seems to be a little overkill now.

   I'd like me to access all my account and the joint accounts fully.
   My wife needs to access her own accounts. None of us needs to access
   the other's accounts, but both of us need to access our joint
   accounts and our children's accounts.

   There are several ways to acheive this feature:
   1. to implement a database-like system
   2. to change the in-file format adding users-passwords to accounts
   3. to use the files permissions allowing a user to open or not a
      data file

   The last may be the easier to implement as it is already functionnal
   this way. But, for better usability/ergonomy, it implies the
   possibility to open several files at the same time (in order to
   avoid switching between files). This way, my wife would be able to
   open her own accounts, our joint accounts and our children's
   accounts. And I would be able to open my own accounts, our joint
   accounts and our children's accounts. Our children will be able to
   open their own account.

There is a database backed which is in testing stage right now, but it does not have these capabilities at this point.
There are no plans for a multi-user capability, I think, but if users think it would be useful that might change.
 

   Thanks to you for having read up to here :) I hope this will awake
   some thoughts in your developper's community.

   Thanks for all, regards.

Thank you, Thomas

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[Colin Wright-3]

On Monday 13 October 2008 00:11:21 Alvaro Soliverez wrote:

> On Sat, Oct 11, 2008 at 11:45 AM, Thomas Nemeth <tnemeth@...> wrote:
> >    Hi!
> >
> >    I am (was) the main developper of the now abandonned gacc personnal
> >    finance manager software. I have switched to kmymoney some time ago
> >    since I don't have time to continue developping gacc (and besides I
> >    use KDE so...)
> >
> >    I have some things to comment about kmymoney usage and feature I'd
> >    love to see implemented.
> >
> >    Usability:
> >    - when entering an operation previous versions allowed to
> >      automatically change month when reaching the end of the one
> >      already selectionned (eg: when I had previously entered an
> >      operation for the 29 september and the next one is for the
> >      02 october, I was able, using the keyboard, to step through
> >      the end of september and began with the 1st of october) but
> >      this is no more the case :( Could this behavior be restored?
>
> I think this is a behavior of the Qt widget that has changed, but I will
> check.
> I remember it worked that way before, though.

On any part of the date:
I can use the unshifted minus (-) to go back one day and it rolls over
to the previous month.
I can use the unshifted equals (=) and shifted equals (+) to go
forward one day and it rolls over to the next month.
I can use the T key (any shift) to change the date to Today.

>
> >    - there is a need for a keyboard shortcut configuration to mark
> >      an operation as cleared.
>
> You can mark it cleared with Alt+Ctrl+Space.
>
> >    Feature:
> >    <Use case>
> >    I manage the money for my whole family: joint bank accounts, my own
> >    accounts and my children's ones. Sometimes my wife needs to manage
> >    her own accounts using her user login. The last (not released)
> >    version of gacc included a client/server mode that allowed users to
> >    access (read, read/write or none) stored accounts in a way similar
> >    to database managers. This seems to be a little overkill now.
> >
> >    I'd like me to access all my account and the joint accounts fully.
> >    My wife needs to access her own accounts. None of us needs to access
> >    the other's accounts, but both of us need to access our joint
> >    accounts and our children's accounts.
> >
> >    There are several ways to acheive this feature:
> >    1. to implement a database-like system
> >    2. to change the in-file format adding users-passwords to accounts
> >    3. to use the files permissions allowing a user to open or not a
> >       data file
> >
> >    The last may be the easier to implement as it is already functionnal
> >    this way. But, for better usability/ergonomy, it implies the
> >    possibility to open several files at the same time (in order to
> >    avoid switching between files). This  way, my wife would be able to
> >    open her own accounts, our joint a ccounts and our children's
> >    accounts. And I would be able to open my own accounts, our joint
> >    accounts and our children's accounts. Our children will be able to
> >    open their own account.
>
> There is a database backed which is in testing stage right now, but it does
> not have these capabilities at this point.
> There are no plans for a multi-user capability, I think, but if users think
> it would be useful that might change.

Well, one thing I'd like to see in the database support is the ability to use
a separate connection to perform the database creation and upgrade.
That way you can easily keep your application and user logins separate.

Theoretically, multi-file support would be possible by
- Generating a unique identifier for each file/database
- When a file is loaded add the file to a list containing the unique
identifier and assigning it a short code.
- When loading data from an additional file in KMyMoney prefix IDs with their
short file code.
- When saving data check the ID prefix to determine the correct destination.
- Add a list of external files to the file/database
- When saving data referring to multiple files, add a reference to the
required external data to each file.  E.g a Transfer between Accounts in two
different files would require an additional "external" Account to be stored
in each file.

Not easy, but not impossible.

Having a well-implemented, secure, multi-user system would be more
complicated:
- Account-level security: usual privileges plus Transfer To, Transfer From,
Current Balance.
- Allow editing of a Transaction only if the user can edit all splits?
- Use of views, triggers and procedures to restrict data access and prevent
changes

>
> >    Thanks to you for having read up to here :) I hope this will awake
> >    some thoughts in your developper's community.
> >
> >    Thanks for all, regards.
>
> Thank you, Thomas

Thanks,

Colin

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[Alvaro Soliverez]

On Tue, Oct 14, 2008 at 4:08 PM, Thomas Nemeth <tnemeth@...> wrote:

----- "Alvaro Soliverez" <asoliverez@...> wrote :

> > On Sat, Oct 11, 2008 at 11:45 AM, Thomas Nemeth < tnemeth@... >
> > wrote:
> >

> > - when entering an operation previous versions allowed to
> > automatically change month when reaching the end of the one
> > already selectionned (eg: when I had previously entered an
> > operation for the 29 september and the next one is for the
> > 02 october, I was able, using the keyboard, to step through
> > the end of september and began with the 1st of october) but
> > this is no more the case :( Could this behavior be restored?
>
> I think this is a behavior of the Qt widget that has changed, but I
> will check.
> I remember it worked that way before, though.

   Indeed. That's why I have been surprised when I saw it didn't
   work anymore :(

If there was a change, that was from Qt, because I remember that happening with the CVS version, which is way newer than 0.8.8.
I will try to track that down if I find the time.
 

> > - there is a need for a keyboard shortcut configuration to mark
> > an operation as cleared.
>
> You can mark it cleared with Alt+Ctrl+Space.

   I've just tried with kmymoney 0.8.8 on kde 3.5.10 (kubuntu 8.04) and
   it doesn't work...

That might explain it. I am using the CVS version. You can install an updated version from Clay's PPA for Kubuntu.
Let me know and I will send you the details.


 

> There is a database backed which is in testing stage right now, but it
> does not have these capabilities at this point.
> There are no plans for a multi-user capability, I think, but if users
> think it would be useful that might change.

   Ok. If nobody else requests it, then I might jump in as soon as I can
   find time to do it :)


> Thank you, Thomas

   Thanks to you !

Please CC the list so everyone can chime in and learn too.

Regards,
Alvaro

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