Fair-use music samples in articles

[Ian A. Holton]

Can somebody enlighten me about fair-use of music samples in articles about
musicians / music genres et cetera. I started uploading short (20-30 sec)
sound samples of examples for artists such as Eric Clapton (see
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_Clapton ). Is this allowed / appreciated /
encouraged ?

Ian
[[User:Poeloq]]
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[Gregory Maxwell]

On Sun, Sep 28, 2008 at 12:05 PM, Ian A. Holton <poeloq@...> wrote:
> Can somebody enlighten me about fair-use of music samples in articles about
> musicians / music genres et cetera. I started uploading short (20-30 sec)
> sound samples of examples for artists such as Eric Clapton (see
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_Clapton ). Is this allowed / appreciated /
> encouraged ?

If you use the recordings to make article's discussion more
enlightening they should be welcome.  The recording should illustrate
some point made in the text. If the text says "Many Clapton songs
begin with a rhythmic kazoo solo", then by all means give us an
example.

See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Music_samples

What you should avoid is adding a collection of clips down at the
bottom. Garnish is nice, but its expressly forbidden to use things
which are not freely licensed as garnish-- you need to have an
articulatable educational purpose for using the work and how doing so
makes the text more informative..

See the reasoning here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Non-free_content#Explanation_of_policy_and_guidelines

Sometimes people draw different lines between what is garnish and what
is informative.  This occasionally causes some disputes.  Please have
patience with the process and do your best to articulate how the
samples illustrate the points raised in the text and you should get
good results.   Thank you for your efforts to contribute.

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[Carl Beckhorn]

The broader question "When do snippets of copyrighted songs meet the
requirements of NFCC" is (as far as I can see) extremely difficult.
Here NFCC is [[Wikipedia:Non-free content criteria]].

Gregory Maxwell is certainly right that the entire area of non-free
media on Wikipedia is full of controversy. Our policies are somewhat
subjective and our practice is somewhat inconsistent.

On Sun, Sep 28, 2008 at 12:25:05PM -0400, Gregory Maxwell wrote:
> If the text says "Many Clapton songs begin with a rhythmic kazoo
> solo", then by all means give us an example.

I would think that is a classic example of a rationale we do not accept.
WP:NFCC#1 includes this test: "Could the subject be adequately conveyed
by text without using the non-free content at all?"  If the only point
of the kazoo solo sound clip is to reinforce the point that the songs
include kazoo solos, that usage can be replaced by text.

A better rationale would include several sourced statements in the text
directly commenting on the kazoo solos. The presence of such "critical
commentary" is key to justifying the use of nonfree media.

> What you should avoid is adding a collection of clips down at the
> bottom.

I agree with that sentiment.  This sort of use would have the same
problems as a gallery of non-free images, which are not permitted.

 - Carl

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[Gregory Maxwell]

On Sun, Sep 28, 2008 at 1:14 PM, Carl Beckhorn <cbeckhorn@...> wrote:
> On Sun, Sep 28, 2008 at 12:25:05PM -0400, Gregory Maxwell wrote:
>> If the text says "Many Clapton songs begin with a rhythmic kazoo
>> solo", then by all means give us an example.
>
> I would think that is a classic example of a rationale we do not accept.
> WP:NFCC#1 includes this test: "Could the subject be adequately conveyed
> by text without using the non-free content at all?"  If the only point
> of the kazoo solo sound clip is to reinforce the point that the songs
> include kazoo solos, that usage can be replaced by text.

Sorry, in an effort to produce an amusing example I failed to produce
a good one.  I should leave the humor to the comedians. Though with a
little modification my example stands: you could make some point about
kazoo harmonization or kazoo acoustic texture which text would fail to
adequately convey...

The point I was really trying to make is that the media needs to be a
part of the discussion, not merely something bolted onto the side of
the discussion. It's important point because most people have
experience with things like fan-sites and catalogs (i.e. IMDB) that
often use media in a rather bolt-on fashion.  Your reply pointed out
an additional requirement:  That being part of the discussion is
necessary but not sufficient, it has to be an *important*, or even an
almost essential part of the discussion.

Thank you pointing out the misleading part of my message.

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[WJhonson]

(Bizarre, Unique, Curious, Odd, Amusing) Kazoo introductions to each  song....
I suppose some fastidious editor might fact-tag your adjective but it's  
really difficult to convey in text-alone how singular the kazoo introductions  
actually were.  I mean at-the-time I thought to myself, "Did I take acid  before
I put this record on?"
 
Will Johnson
 
 
 
In a message dated 9/28/2008 1:27:53 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,  
gmaxwell@... writes:

Though  with a
little modification my example stands: you could make some point  about
kazoo harmonization or kazoo acoustic texture which text would fail  to
adequately convey...





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[Ian A. Holton]

OK, I get the basics. So the use in the Eric Clapton article isn't actually
perfect.

Ian
[[User:Poeloq]]

On Mon, Sep 29, 2008 at 4:33 AM, <WJhonson@...> wrote:

> (Bizarre, Unique, Curious, Odd, Amusing) Kazoo introductions to each
>  song....
> I suppose some fastidious editor might fact-tag your adjective but it's
> really difficult to convey in text-alone how singular the kazoo
> introductions
> actually were.  I mean at-the-time I thought to myself, "Did I take acid
>  before
> I put this record on?"
>
> Will Johnson
>
>
>
> In a message dated 9/28/2008 1:27:53 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
> gmaxwell@... writes:
>
> Though  with a
> little modification my example stands: you could make some point  about
> kazoo harmonization or kazoo acoustic texture which text would fail  to
> adequately convey...
>
>
>
>
>
> **************Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial
> challenges?  Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips
> and
> calculators.      (http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001)
> _______________________________________________
> WikiEN-l mailing list
> WikiEN-l@...
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>

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[Charlotte Webb]

On 9/28/08, Carl Beckhorn <cbeckhorn@...> wrote:
> The broader question "When do snippets of copyrighted songs meet the
> requirements of NFCC" is (as far as I can see) extremely difficult.

As far as I know, I have yet to see an example that actually meets
NFCC. Maybe I'm biased because I couldn't get the v-ggood jorbis
player to work.

But if I'm familiar with the song I can hum a few bars in my head
while I'm reading the article... you know, about 30 seconds worth...
only to ask "okay, so what's the point of this?"

Sometimes I wonder if uploaders rely too much on the "30-seconds won't
upset Reprise Records, not when anybody can download the whole song
from [redacted]" defense.

In any case the kazoo was much more a Jesse Fuller thing than of
Clapton but a "fair use" rationale would be more plausible in [[San
Francisco Bay Blues]] than in either bio.

—C.W.

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