Erasing hard drives - Erase-O-Matic?

[John Abreau-18]

I have a Seagate 750gb hard drive that's died, and that I'm preparing
to return for warranty replacement.

I tried to use DBAN to erase the drive, but it's unable to detect the
drive at all, never mind wipe its data. I did a google search for
hard drive degaussers, and found a lot of options that would cost
between $2,000 and $40,000.

Then I ran across "Erase-O-Matic" for $199, which claims to wipe
hard drives. It strikes me as too good to be true, which makes me
wonder if it's some sort of scam. So far I haven't found any data
to help me figure out whether it's legitimate.

Has anyone here used this device, and can say how well it works?

Thanks.

    http://erase-o-matic.com/



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[Boland, John]

the first thing I noticed is that the hard drive in the picture has the
cover removed.
removing the cover of a drive invalidates the warranty, there are a
number of stickers on most drives that warn you of that.
his claims are that before you dispose of the media, you can make sure
that all data has been cleared.  
besides you gotta love that "rare-earth-magnet technology"!
 

-----Original Message-----
From: discuss-bounces@... [mailto:discuss-bounces@...] On Behalf
Of John Abreau
Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2008 1:13 PM
To: discuss@...
Subject: Erasing hard drives - Erase-O-Matic?

I have a Seagate 750gb hard drive that's died, and that I'm preparing to
return for warranty replacement.

I tried to use DBAN to erase the drive, but it's unable to detect the
drive at all, never mind wipe its data. I did a google search for hard
drive degaussers, and found a lot of options that would cost between
$2,000 and $40,000.

Then I ran across "Erase-O-Matic" for $199, which claims to wipe hard
drives. It strikes me as too good to be true, which makes me wonder if
it's some sort of scam. So far I haven't found any data to help me
figure out whether it's legitimate.

Has anyone here used this device, and can say how well it works?

Thanks.

    http://erase-o-matic.com/



--
John Abreau / Executive Director, Boston Linux & Unix
IM: jabr@... / abreauj@AIM / abreauj@Yahoo /
zusa_it_mgr@Skype Email jabr@... / WWW http://www.abreau.net /
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[Daniel Feenberg]

On Tue, 17 Jun 2008, John Abreau wrote:

> I have a Seagate 750gb hard drive that's died, and that I'm preparing
> to return for warranty replacement.
>
> I tried to use DBAN to erase the drive, but it's unable to detect the
> drive at all, never mind wipe its data. I did a google search for
> hard drive degaussers, and found a lot of options that would cost
> between $2,000 and $40,000.
>
> Then I ran across "Erase-O-Matic" for $199, which claims to wipe
> hard drives. It strikes me as too good to be true, which makes me
> wonder if it's some sort of scam. So far I haven't found any data
> to help me figure out whether it's legitimate.
>
> Has anyone here used this device, and can say how well it works?

I wouldn't doubt that it erases the drive data, but it requires removing
the covers, which I expect will void your warranty, even if your drive
does not have servo tracks, whose absence may also void the warranty. See
Notes 4 and H4 at

    http://erase-o-matic.com

>
> Thanks.
>
>    http://erase-o-matic.com/
>
>
>
> --
> John Abreau / Executive Director, Boston Linux & Unix
> IM: jabr@... / abreauj@AIM / abreauj@Yahoo / zusa_it_mgr@Skype
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>
>
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[Ben Holland]

I was going to say, just place a strong magnet or two on it and let it sit
there for about a day, I mean, it's going to take a miracle if your comp
doesn't pick it up for any other computer to pick it up, and the only way to
get to it is something like a dd command, but with magnets over the plates
it should really take care of it. Anyone kill drives this way? ~Ben

On Tue, Jun 17, 2008 at 2:12 PM, Boland, John <jboland@...>
wrote:

> the first thing I noticed is that the hard drive in the picture has the
> cover removed.
> removing the cover of a drive invalidates the warranty, there are a
> number of stickers on most drives that warn you of that.
> his claims are that before you dispose of the media, you can make sure
> that all data has been cleared.
> besides you gotta love that "rare-earth-magnet technology"!
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: discuss-bounces@... [mailto:discuss-bounces@...] On Behalf
> Of John Abreau
> Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2008 1:13 PM
> To: discuss@...
> Subject: Erasing hard drives - Erase-O-Matic?
>
> I have a Seagate 750gb hard drive that's died, and that I'm preparing to
> return for warranty replacement.
>
> I tried to use DBAN to erase the drive, but it's unable to detect the
> drive at all, never mind wipe its data. I did a google search for hard
> drive degaussers, and found a lot of options that would cost between
> $2,000 and $40,000.
>
> Then I ran across "Erase-O-Matic" for $199, which claims to wipe hard
> drives. It strikes me as too good to be true, which makes me wonder if
> it's some sort of scam. So far I haven't found any data to help me
> figure out whether it's legitimate.
>
> Has anyone here used this device, and can say how well it works?
>
> Thanks.
>
>    http://erase-o-matic.com/
>
>
>
> --
> John Abreau / Executive Director, Boston Linux & Unix
> IM: jabr@... / abreauj@AIM / abreauj@Yahoo /
> zusa_it_mgr@Skype Email jabr@... / WWW http://www.abreau.net /
> PGP-Key-ID 0xD5C7B5D9 PGP-Key-Fingerprint 72 FB 39 4F 3C 3B D6 5B E0 C8
> 5A 6E F1 2C BE 99
>
>
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[Kristian Erik Hermansen]

On Tue, Jun 17, 2008 at 10:13 AM, John Abreau <jabr@...> wrote:
> I have a Seagate 750gb hard drive that's died, and that I'm preparing
> to return for warranty replacement.
>
> I tried to use DBAN to erase the drive, but it's unable to detect the
> drive at all, never mind wipe its data. I did a google search for
> hard drive degaussers, and found a lot of options that would cost
> between $2,000 and $40,000.

But your BIOS detects it correctly?  I would use a low-level format
booter or something, then try to just load a Linux LiveCD and
overwrite with /dev/zero.  Using more than one pass or /dev/random
does not actually have an effect on newer hard drives.  Despite
popular myth, it is not proven possible to recover data (without
perhaps NSA-type tools and funding) even after one overwrite pass of
zeros...
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[Tom Metro-12]

John Abreau wrote:
> I have a Seagate 750gb hard drive that's died, and that I'm preparing
> to return for warranty replacement.
>
> I did a google search for hard drive degaussers...

That's going to make Seagate's job of refurbishing the drive a lot
harder. They might decline the warranty claiming you "abused" the drive
if they figure out you did this.


> I tried to use DBAN to erase the drive, but it's unable to detect the
> drive at all...

Isn't DBAN based on Linux? Can you see the drive from any bootable Linux
distribution?

If so, just dd /dev/random to the drive a couple of times and you're good.

If the electronics are dead, then a degausser may be your only option,
short of buying an identical drive (or getting Seagate to cross-ship the
replacement) and swapping the circuit board yourself.

Given the drive is worth about $120, trashing (and performing your own
mechanical destruction) it might be your least costly option.

  -Tom

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[Jerry Feldman-2]

On Tue, 17 Jun 2008 13:13:04 -0400 (EDT)
"John Abreau" <jabr@...> wrote:

> I have a Seagate 750gb hard drive that's died, and that I'm preparing
> to return for warranty replacement.
>
> I tried to use DBAN to erase the drive, but it's unable to detect the
> drive at all, never mind wipe its data. I did a google search for
> hard drive degaussers, and found a lot of options that would cost
> between $2,000 and $40,000.
>
> Then I ran across "Erase-O-Matic" for $199, which claims to wipe
> hard drives. It strikes me as too good to be true, which makes me
> wonder if it's some sort of scam. So far I haven't found any data
> to help me figure out whether it's legitimate.
>
> Has anyone here used this device, and can say how well it works?

Some media storage companies can do this. If you have a contract to
store media offsite, such as Iron Mountain, they might do it for you.

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[Kristian Erik Hermansen]

On Tue, Jun 17, 2008 at 11:42 AM, Tom Metro <blu@...> wrote:
> If so, just dd /dev/random to the drive a couple of times and you're good.

See my previous note that this is merely popular myth.  One pass of
/dev/zero is enough...
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[Dan Ritter-2]

On Tue, Jun 17, 2008 at 11:45:53AM -0700, Kristian Erik Hermansen wrote:
> On Tue, Jun 17, 2008 at 11:42 AM, Tom Metro <blu@...> wrote:
> > If so, just dd /dev/random to the drive a couple of times and you're good.
>
> See my previous note that this is merely popular myth.  One pass of
> /dev/zero is enough...

It's enough if your adversary is going to hook up the disk to a
controller and try to get data out that way.

If you have NSA problems, you may want to use something more
exotic... thermite works pretty quickly.

I don't think there's much call for anything in between those
two levels of deletion.

-dsr-

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[John Abreau-2]

No, the BIOS isn't seeing it; at least, the 3ware RAID card
reports that nothing is plugged into the slot it's plugged
into, regardless of which slot I plug it into. The 3ware card
does detect a good drive when I plug one into the same slots.


Kristian Erik Hermansen wrote:

> On Tue, Jun 17, 2008 at 10:13 AM, John Abreau <jabr@...> wrote:
>  
>> I have a Seagate 750gb hard drive that's died, and that I'm preparing
>> to return for warranty replacement.
>>
>> I tried to use DBAN to erase the drive, but it's unable to detect the
>> drive at all, never mind wipe its data. I did a google search for
>> hard drive degaussers, and found a lot of options that would cost
>> between $2,000 and $40,000.
>>    
>
> But your BIOS detects it correctly?  I would use a low-level format
> booter or something, then try to just load a Linux LiveCD and
> overwrite with /dev/zero.  Using more than one pass or /dev/random
> does not actually have an effect on newer hard drives.  Despite
> popular myth, it is not proven possible to recover data (without
> perhaps NSA-type tools and funding) even after one overwrite pass of
> zeros...
>  

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T: 978-392-1777            F: 978-692-4725
M: 978-764-8934
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[Ben Holland]

I am almost sure thermite would void a warranty



On Tue, Jun 17, 2008 at 2:52 PM, Dan Ritter <dsr@...> wrote:

> On Tue, Jun 17, 2008 at 11:45:53AM -0700, Kristian Erik Hermansen wrote:
> > On Tue, Jun 17, 2008 at 11:42 AM, Tom Metro <blu@...> wrote:
> > > If so, just dd /dev/random to the drive a couple of times and you're
> good.
> >
> > See my previous note that this is merely popular myth.  One pass of
> > /dev/zero is enough...
>
> It's enough if your adversary is going to hook up the disk to a
> controller and try to get data out that way.
>
> If you have NSA problems, you may want to use something more
> exotic... thermite works pretty quickly.
>
> I don't think there's much call for anything in between those
> two levels of deletion.
>
> -dsr-
>
> --
> http://tao.merseine.nu/~dsr/eula.html<http://tao.merseine.nu/%7Edsr/eula.html>is hereby incorporated by reference.
>
> When freedom gets lots of exercise, it protects itself.
>
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[Jerry Feldman-2]

On Tue, 17 Jun 2008 14:52:31 -0400
Dan Ritter <dsr@...> wrote:

> If you have NSA problems, you may want to use something more
> exotic... thermite works pretty quickly.

Thermite is a great solution, but I don't think that Seagate would
honor the warranty.

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[Mark J. Dulcey]

Boland, John wrote:
> the first thing I noticed is that the hard drive in the picture has the
> cover removed.
> removing the cover of a drive invalidates the warranty, there are a
> number of stickers on most drives that warn you of that.
> his claims are that before you dispose of the media, you can make sure
> that all data has been cleared.  
> besides you gotta love that "rare-earth-magnet technology"!

Here is what the site has to say about the procedure for erasing hard
disk drives:

"HD4: Remove top and bottom hard drive covers, make a minimum of four
passes - end "A" top "up"; end "A" bottom "up"; end "B" top "up"; end
"B" bottom "up" -- plus additional passes as required."

So yes, this device requires that you open the hard drive. Fine if your
only concern is disposing of old drives securely, but useless if you
want to return the drive for warranty repair.

If DBAN doesn't recognize the drive, it's probably dead in some
electronic way. (That's why you're sending it back, after all!) Sadly,
that means that you either have to trust the manufacturer's repair
center with your data or forgo the warranty replacement.

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[Dan Ritter-2]

> On Tue, Jun 17, 2008 at 2:52 PM, Dan Ritter <dsr@...> wrote:
>
> > If you have NSA problems, you may want to use something more
> > exotic... thermite works pretty quickly.

On Tue, Jun 17, 2008 at 04:09:25PM -0400, Ben Holland wrote:
> I am almost sure thermite would void a warranty

If you have NSA-level problems, are you going to save $120 and
ship your old data off to the manufacturer, who is in the best
of all possible positions to recover data from it?

-dsr-

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[John Abreau-2]

In my case, I'm just aiming for due diligence. I've purchased a lot
of Seagate drives over the past few years, and this is the first one
that's died on me; I'm trying to define a policy for dealing with
the situation. Warranty replacement would be nice, but if eating
the cost of dead drives really is the best option, I can live
with that.

The dead drive is from my backup server, and could potentially have
any data from any backup set. The disk was one of two drives in a
3ware hardware RAID1 set, and at present when I hook up a usb cable
to it and plug it into my laptop, I get the following in /var/log/messages:

 > kernel: usb 1-3.6: new high speed USB device using ehci_hcd and
address 24
 > kernel: usb 1-3.6: configuration #1 chosen from 1 choice
 > kernel: scsi15 : SCSI emulation for USB Mass Storage devices
 > kernel: scsi 15:0:0:0: Direct-Access                  PQ: 0 ANSI: 2
CCS      
 > kernel: sd 15:0:0:0: [sdg] Attached SCSI disk
 > kernel: sd 15:0:0:0: Attached scsi generic sg7 type 0
 > kernel: usb 1-3.6: USB disconnect, address 24


After that, the drive keeps trying to spin up, then emits a loud click.



Dan Ritter wrote:

>> On Tue, Jun 17, 2008 at 2:52 PM, Dan Ritter <dsr@...> wrote:
>>
>>    
>>> If you have NSA problems, you may want to use something more
>>> exotic... thermite works pretty quickly.
>>>      
>
> On Tue, Jun 17, 2008 at 04:09:25PM -0400, Ben Holland wrote:
>  
>> I am almost sure thermite would void a warranty
>>    
>
> If you have NSA-level problems, are you going to save $120 and
> ship your old data off to the manufacturer, who is in the best
> of all possible positions to recover data from it?
>
> -dsr-
>
>  

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T: 978-392-1777            F: 978-692-4725
M: 978-764-8934
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[James Kramer]

I never used it, but it is claimed to be good
http://wipe.sourceforge.net/
jay

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[Kristian Erik Hermansen]

I have a friend in vancouver who is a drive ninja, even at or below
the firmware level.  Email me privately if you would ever require his
services.  He is quite elite and I would recommend you only use him if
you really must.  He can write special custom firmware to make a drive
recoverable in order to overwrite the contents of the disk.  I am not
certain if swapping a pcb boad off and back would void your warranty.
You'd have to look into it...



On 6/17/08, Mark J. Dulcey <mark@...> wrote:

> Boland, John wrote:
>> the first thing I noticed is that the hard drive in the picture has the
>> cover removed.
>> removing the cover of a drive invalidates the warranty, there are a
>> number of stickers on most drives that warn you of that.
>> his claims are that before you dispose of the media, you can make sure
>> that all data has been cleared.
>> besides you gotta love that "rare-earth-magnet technology"!
>
> Here is what the site has to say about the procedure for erasing hard
> disk drives:
>
> "HD4: Remove top and bottom hard drive covers, make a minimum of four
> passes - end "A" top "up"; end "A" bottom "up"; end "B" top "up"; end
> "B" bottom "up" -- plus additional passes as required."
>
> So yes, this device requires that you open the hard drive. Fine if your
> only concern is disposing of old drives securely, but useless if you
> want to return the drive for warranty repair.
>
> If DBAN doesn't recognize the drive, it's probably dead in some
> electronic way. (That's why you're sending it back, after all!) Sadly,
> that means that you either have to trust the manufacturer's repair
> center with your data or forgo the warranty replacement.
>
> --
> This message has been scanned for viruses and
> dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
> believed to be clean.
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> _______________________________________________
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