Embed Forth into Firefox.
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Embed Forth into Firefox.
by Michael A. Borisov
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Hi All,
I'm considering a possibility to use Forth "natively" in my web pages to increase performance. The ideal scenario for me is to build my custom version of Firefox where JavaScript is replaced with Forth. So, my question is what should I start from? Thank you, Michael _______________________________________________ dev-tech-js-engine mailing list dev-tech-js-engine@... https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-tech-js-engine |
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Re: Embed Forth into Firefox.
by John J Barton
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Michael A. Borisov wrote:
> Hi All, > > I'm considering a possibility to use Forth "natively" in my web pages to > increase performance. The ideal scenario for me is to build my custom > version of Firefox where JavaScript is replaced with Forth. So, my > question is what should I start from? > > Thank you, > Michael I'd start by counting the number of lines of Javascript in Firefox and estimating how many person-decades a reimplementation would take. Another answer could be: start with a realistic evaluation of Javascript's impact on performance, its likely to be a much smaller effect than you think. But maybe you meant to say "version of Firefox where Forth is also a viable scripting language"? _______________________________________________ dev-tech-js-engine mailing list dev-tech-js-engine@... https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-tech-js-engine |
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Re: Embed Forth into Firefox.
by Michael A. Borisov
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John J. Barton wrote:
> Michael A. Borisov wrote: >> Hi All, >> >> I'm considering a possibility to use Forth "natively" in my web pages >> to increase performance. The ideal scenario for me is to build my >> custom version of Firefox where JavaScript is replaced with Forth. So, >> my question is what should I start from? >> >> Thank you, >> Michael > > I'd start by counting the number of lines of Javascript in Firefox and > estimating how many person-decades a reimplementation would take. > Another answer could be: start with a realistic evaluation of > Javascript's impact on performance, its likely to be a much smaller > effect than you think. But maybe you meant to say "version of Firefox > where Forth is also a viable scripting language"? I think the difference in performance will be significant. Forth performance is about a performance of binary code. And also, I believe memory footprint will be much less for big applications. I don't think the project is going to be big. Only what I need to implement is "mapping" of C++ DOM interfaces to Forth. Plus event handling, of course. And that can be done step by step. First I just need to understand how to catch script tag with a specific language attribute value. So, it should be something like <script language="Forth"> : test ; </script> I will really appreciate any hints. Thank you, Michael _______________________________________________ dev-tech-js-engine mailing list dev-tech-js-engine@... https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-tech-js-engine |
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Re: Embed Forth into Firefox.
by Marcus G. Daniels
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How about one of these next generation Forth-like languages?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joy_(programming_language) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cat_(programming_language) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Factor_(programming_language) _______________________________________________ dev-tech-js-engine mailing list dev-tech-js-engine@... https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-tech-js-engine |
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Re: Embed Forth into Firefox.
by Michael A. Borisov
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Marcus G. Daniels wrote:
> How about one of these next generation Forth-like languages? > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joy_(programming_language) > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cat_(programming_language) > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Factor_(programming_language) I think it is not a main stream. And, my concern is performance and memory footprint. I believe pure Forth is unbeatable here. Michael _______________________________________________ dev-tech-js-engine mailing list dev-tech-js-engine@... https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-tech-js-engine |
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Re: Embed Forth into Firefox.
by deka
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On Jul 3, 9:25 pm, "Michael A. Borisov" <bori...@...> wrote:
> Marcus G. Daniels wrote: > > How about one of these next generation Forth-like languages? > > >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joy_(programming_language) > >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cat_(programming_language) > >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Factor_(programming_language) > > I think it is not a main stream. And, my concern is performance and > memory footprint. I believe pure Forth is unbeatable here. > > Michael In fact Forth is being used in bytecode translation in AVM2 , the ActionScript Virtual Machine of Adobe , which have been integrated in Tamarin. . Tamarin virtual machine will eventually replace some part of the current SpiderMonkey JS engine . http://blog.mozilla.com/dmandelin/2008/05/16/tamarin-tracing-internals-part-i/ http://www.bluishcoder.co.nz/2008/02/quick-introduction-to-tamarin-tracing.html Amar _______________________________________________ dev-tech-js-engine mailing list dev-tech-js-engine@... https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-tech-js-engine |
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Re: Embed Forth into Firefox.
by chris.double@gmail.com
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On Jul 2, 6:09 pm, "Michael A. Borisov" <bori...@...> wrote:
> I'm considering a possibility to use Forth "natively" in my web pages to > increase performance. The ideal scenario for me is to build my custom > version of Firefox where JavaScript is replaced with Forth. So, my > question is what should I start from? Kamen Lisp embeds Common Lisp as a language in Firefox. It may be helpful to look through the source to see how they did it: http://www.progmatism.com/software/kamen/index.php Chris. -- http://www.bluishcoder.co.nz _______________________________________________ dev-tech-js-engine mailing list dev-tech-js-engine@... https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-tech-js-engine |
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Re: Embed Forth into Firefox.
by Sam Mason
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On Thu, Jul 03, 2008 at 06:25:33PM -0700, Michael A. Borisov wrote:
> my concern is performance and memory footprint. How about writing a translator from Forth to Javascript and when performance or memory usage actually become a problem then start worrying about writing a forth interpreter? > I believe pure Forth is unbeatable here. I'd hazard a guess that assembly would beat forth on both counts---and with a modern typed assembly language just as safe! Languages are always a trade off between time spent writing and running. Picking the right language for the job is one of the arts of software engineering. (this second paragraph isn't meant to be taken too seriously BTW) Sam _______________________________________________ dev-tech-js-engine mailing list dev-tech-js-engine@... https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-tech-js-engine |
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Re: Embed Forth into Firefox.
by Michael A. Borisov
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chris.double@... wrote:
> On Jul 2, 6:09═pm, "Michael A. Borisov" <bori...@...> wrote: >> I'm considering a possibility to use Forth "natively" in my web pages to >> increase performance. The ideal scenario for me is to build my custom >> version of Firefox where JavaScript is replaced with Forth. So, my >> question is what should I start from? > > Kamen Lisp embeds Common Lisp as a language in Firefox. It may be > helpful to look through the source to see how they did it: > > http://www.progmatism.com/software/kamen/index.php > > Chris. > -- > http://www.bluishcoder.co.nz Thanks a lot. It is very helpful. Michael _______________________________________________ dev-tech-js-engine mailing list dev-tech-js-engine@... https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-tech-js-engine |
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