Edges chopped off when viewing burned DVD.

[rbroberts]

I asked this on the qdvdauthor user mailing list and it was suggested I
ask here, so...

I have some video I generated using Celestia.  I captured video as
640x480 OGG Theora at 29.97 fps,  then imported it into Kino.  After
editing, I exported as mpeg for qdvdauthor, then laid our my menus and
chaptere and burned a DVD.

If I play the VOB file with xine or mplayer, it looks fine.  mplayer
does tell me it is prescaling the video to 720x540 to get the 4:3 aspect
ratio correct (it *is* 4:3).

When I play back the DVD on my analog TV, I've lost part of the edges on
all four sides.  I can tell its missing because Celestia has text
displayed in those areas and its chopped off.

If I view it on a small portable DVD player, the left/right have a few
columns missing as some text on the edges is chopped.

But when I play it on a high-end upscaling DVD player on my 50-inch
plasma TV, the sides are fine, but the top and bottom are still missing
several lines.

dvdauthor.xml says the video is 720x480 4:3.  mplayer -identify says this:

356 roland> mplayer -identify -vo null -frames 1 AstroClub-20080410001.mpeg
MPlayer 1.0rc2-4.1.2 (C) 2000-2007 MPlayer Team
CPU: Intel(R) Core(TM)2 CPU         T7200  @ 2.00GHz (Family: 6, Model:
15, Stepping: 6)
CPUflags:  MMX: 1 MMX2: 1 3DNow: 0 3DNow2: 0 SSE: 1 SSE2: 1
Compiled with runtime CPU detection.
115 audio & 237 video codecs
Can't open joystick device /dev/input/js0: No such file or directory
Can't init input joystick
mplayer: could not connect to socket
mplayer: No such file or directory
Failed to open LIRC support. You will not be able to use your remote
control.

Playing AstroClub-20080410001.mpeg.
ID_VIDEO_ID=0
ID_AUDIO_ID=0
MPEG-PS file format detected.
VIDEO:  MPEG2  720x480  (aspect 2)  29.970 fps  7500.0 kbps (937.5 kbyte/s)
ID_FILENAME=AstroClub-20080410001.mpeg
ID_DEMUXER=mpegps
ID_VIDEO_FORMAT=0x10000002
ID_VIDEO_BITRATE=7500000
ID_VIDEO_WIDTH=720
ID_VIDEO_HEIGHT=480
ID_VIDEO_FPS=29.970
ID_VIDEO_ASPECT=0.0000
ID_AUDIO_FORMAT=80
ID_AUDIO_BITRATE=0
ID_AUDIO_RATE=0
ID_AUDIO_NCH=0
ID_LENGTH=232.82
==========================================================================
Opening video decoder: [mpegpes] MPEG 1/2 Video passthrough
VDec: vo config request - 720 x 480 (preferred colorspace: Mpeg PES)
VDec: using Mpeg PES as output csp (no 0)
Movie-Aspect is undefined - no prescaling applied.
VO: [null] 720x480 => 720x480 Mpeg PES
Selected video codec: [mpegpes] vfm: mpegpes (MPEG-PES output (.mpg or
DXR3/IVTV/DVB/V4L2 card))
==========================================================================
ID_VIDEO_CODEC=mpegpes
==========================================================================
Opening audio decoder: [mp3lib] MPEG layer-2, layer-3
AUDIO: 48000 Hz, 2 ch, s16le, 224.0 kbit/14.58% (ratio: 28000->192000)
ID_AUDIO_BITRATE=224000
ID_AUDIO_RATE=48000
ID_AUDIO_NCH=2
Selected audio codec: [mp3] afm: mp3lib (mp3lib MPEG layer-2, layer-3)
==========================================================================
AO: [alsa] 48000Hz 2ch s16le (2 bytes per sample)
ID_AUDIO_CODEC=mp3
Starting playback...
VDec: vo config request - 720 x 480 (preferred colorspace: Mpeg PES)
VDec: using Mpeg PES as output csp (no 0)
Movie-Aspect is 1.33:1 - prescaling to correct movie aspect.
ID_VIDEO_ASPECT=1.3333
VO: [null] 720x480 => 720x540 Mpeg PES
A:   0.2 V:   0.0 A-V:  0.126 ct:  0.000   1/  1 ??% ??% ??,?% 0 0

Exiting... (End of file)



What am I doing wrong?

roland

--
                       PGP Key ID: 66 BC 3B CD
Roland B. Roberts, PhD                             RL Enterprises
roland@...                            6818 Madeline Court
roland@...                           Brooklyn, NY 11220


-------------------------------------------------------------------------
This SF.net email is sponsored by the 2008 JavaOne(SM) Conference
Don't miss this year's exciting event. There's still time to save $100.
Use priority code J8TL2D2.
http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;198757673;13503038;p?http://java.sun.com/javaone
_______________________________________________
Dvdauthor-users mailing list
Dvdauthor-users@...
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/dvdauthor-users

[Claude Heiland-Allen]

Roland Roberts wrote:

> When I play back the DVD on my analog TV, I've lost part of the edges on
> all four sides.  I can tell its missing because Celestia has text
> displayed in those areas and its chopped off.
>
> If I view it on a small portable DVD player, the left/right have a few
> columns missing as some text on the edges is chopped.
>
> But when I play it on a high-end upscaling DVD player on my 50-inch
> plasma TV, the sides are fine, but the top and bottom are still missing
> several lines.

All this is normal, due to the history of the evolution of TV, see for
example:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overscan
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Safe_area
http://www.bbc.co.uk/commissioning/tvbranding/picturesize.shtml

There's nothing you can do about it apart from stick to the safe areas,
particularly when designing menus and subtitles etc.

> What am I doing wrong?

Nothing related to dvdauthor, but putting text outside the "safe area"
is a mistake if you want people to be able to see it (a mistake which I
have made in the past too).


Claude
--
http://claudiusmaximus.goto10.org

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
This SF.net email is sponsored by the 2008 JavaOne(SM) Conference
Don't miss this year's exciting event. There's still time to save $100.
Use priority code J8TL2D2.
http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;198757673;13503038;p?http://java.sun.com/javaone
_______________________________________________
Dvdauthor-users mailing list
Dvdauthor-users@...
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/dvdauthor-users

[rbroberts]

Claude Heiland-Allen wrote:
> Roland Roberts wrote:
>> What am I doing wrong?
>
> Nothing related to dvdauthor, but putting text outside the "safe area"
> is a mistake if you want people to be able to see it (a mistake which
> I have made in the past too).
Unfortunately, the location of the text is not under my control.  I've
got simulations created via Celestia on Linux, and Starry Night Pro on
Windows and both have very few options on where to put the text.  I
guess I'll have to see what options I have to put a black border on the
frames to push the actual video into the safe area.

roland

--
                       PGP Key ID: 66 BC 3B CD
Roland B. Roberts, PhD                             RL Enterprises
roland@...                            6818 Madeline Court
roland@...                           Brooklyn, NY 11220


-------------------------------------------------------------------------
This SF.net email is sponsored by the 2008 JavaOne(SM) Conference
Don't miss this year's exciting event. There's still time to save $100.
Use priority code J8TL2D2.
http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;198757673;13503038;p?http://java.sun.com/javaone
_______________________________________________
Dvdauthor-users mailing list
Dvdauthor-users@...
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/dvdauthor-users

[Philip Walden-2]

Claude Heiland-Allen wrote:

> Roland Roberts wrote:
>  
>> When I play back the DVD on my analog TV, I've lost part of the edges on
>> all four sides.  I can tell its missing because Celestia has text
>> displayed in those areas and its chopped off.
>>
>> If I view it on a small portable DVD player, the left/right have a few
>> columns missing as some text on the edges is chopped.
>>
>> But when I play it on a high-end upscaling DVD player on my 50-inch
>> plasma TV, the sides are fine, but the top and bottom are still missing
>> several lines.
>>    
>
> All this is normal, due to the history of the evolution of TV, see for
> example:
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overscan
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Safe_area
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/commissioning/tvbranding/picturesize.shtml
>
> There's nothing you can do about it apart from stick to the safe areas,
> particularly when designing menus and subtitles etc.
>  

I can see keeping to the safe area is generally a good idea.

However, with the rise of digital TV sets, is overscan eventually going
to be irrelevant?


-------------------------------------------------------------------------
This SF.net email is sponsored by the 2008 JavaOne(SM) Conference
Don't miss this year's exciting event. There's still time to save $100.
Use priority code J8TL2D2.
http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;198757673;13503038;p?http://java.sun.com/javaone
_______________________________________________
Dvdauthor-users mailing list
Dvdauthor-users@...
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/dvdauthor-users

[Lawrence D'Oliveiro-2]

roland wrote:

> Unfortunately, the location of the text is not under my control.

You could scale the video down, then add borders to pad it back up to the
original dimensions to create the safe area. For 720x480 video, perhaps
something like

    ffmpeg -i in.mpg -s 648x432 -padtop 36 -padbottom 36 \
        -padleft 24 -padright 24 out.mpg


-------------------------------------------------------------------------
This SF.net email is sponsored by the 2008 JavaOne(SM) Conference
Don't miss this year's exciting event. There's still time to save $100.
Use priority code J8TL2D2.
http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;198757673;13503038;p?http://java.sun.com/javaone
_______________________________________________
Dvdauthor-users mailing list
Dvdauthor-users@...
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/dvdauthor-users

[rbroberts]

Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:

> roland wrote:
>  
>> Unfortunately, the location of the text is not under my control.
>>    
> You could scale the video down, then add borders to pad it back up to the
> original dimensions to create the safe area. For 720x480 video, perhaps
> something like
>
>     ffmpeg -i in.mpg -s 648x432 -padtop 36 -padbottom 36 \
>         -padleft 24 -padright 24 out.mp

That's what I essentially did with all the videos last night, although
using mencode with -vf to expand then rescale.  I have to create the new
ISO image and make sure it comes out okay, but I now have the nice black
bands all around.  It was just an unexpected effect for me and the lack
of consistency between players (analyog TV, portable DVD player, HDTV)
indicated I really didn't understand something about the process.

roland

--
                       PGP Key ID: 66 BC 3B CD
Roland B. Roberts, PhD                             RL Enterprises
roland@...                            6818 Madeline Court
roland@...                           Brooklyn, NY 11220


-------------------------------------------------------------------------
This SF.net email is sponsored by the 2008 JavaOne(SM) Conference
Don't miss this year's exciting event. There's still time to save $100.
Use priority code J8TL2D2.
http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;198757673;13503038;p?http://java.sun.com/javaone
_______________________________________________
Dvdauthor-users mailing list
Dvdauthor-users@...
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/dvdauthor-users

[Ben Hutchings-3]

On Sat, 2008-04-12 at 14:17 -0700, Philip Walden wrote:
<snip>
> I can see keeping to the safe area is generally a good idea.
>
> However, with the rise of digital TV sets, is overscan eventually going
> to be irrelevant?

Eventually, yes, but not any time soon and probably never in standard-
definition TV.  Showing a full SDTV frame, except in video production
equipment, is a waste of screen space.

Ben.

--
Ben Hutchings
Hoare's Law of Large Problems:
        Inside every large problem is a small problem struggling to get out.


-------------------------------------------------------------------------
This SF.net email is sponsored by the 2008 JavaOne(SM) Conference
Don't miss this year's exciting event. There's still time to save $100.
Use priority code J8TL2D2.
http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;198757673;13503038;p?http://java.sun.com/javaone
_______________________________________________
Dvdauthor-users mailing list
Dvdauthor-users@...
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/dvdauthor-users