Documentation

[John David Anderson]

Bakers,

How are we doing? What is the most confusing? What's most needed and  
missing? I have a punchlist of my own, but I'm looking for input from  
you guys, especially the new ones.

Thanks,

John

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[Julio Protzek]

2008/6/24 John David Anderson <anderson.johnd@...>:

Bakers,

How are we doing? What is the most confusing? What's most needed and
missing? I have a punchlist of my own, but I'm looking for input from
you guys, especially the new ones.

Well, relations seems to be most confusing subject for beginners, specialy HATM.
Maybe more exemples? More grafics?

Some people miss the mosts simplests conventions. Maybe repeat here and there, just to make sure?
 

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[Wayne Madison]

Hello,

I want to create cakePHP(1.2.0.xxxx) Forms to "View", "Add", "Edit",
"Delete" a "User".


Constraints: 1 (No "Scaffold")
                   2 (No Deprecated "generateList()")


I want the "Add" and "Edit" form to contain:


1) A select option box for "title" based upon the values in the
"titles" table showing field values for "Title" saving "title_id" to
the "users" table.
2) An input box for first_name
3) An input box for last_name


I want the "User" "View" form to show:


1) The "title" selected not the "title_id"
2) The "first_name" value
3) The "last_name" value


Table One: "Users"


user_id integer primary key auto number
title_id integer,
first_name varchar(40)
last_name varchar(40)


Table One: Data Example:
user_id titile_id first_name last_name
1           1         bill           smith
2           2         jane         murphy
3           3         elizabeth  baker


Table  Two: "Titles"
title_id: integer primary key autonumber
title: varchar(40)


Table Two: Data Example:
title_id title
1         Mr.
2         Ms.
3         Mrs.


Thanks


 Wayne




On Jun 24, 12:11 pm, John David Anderson <anderson.jo...@...>
wrote:
> Bakers,
>
> How are we doing? What is the most confusing? What's most needed and  
> missing? I have a punchlist of my own, but I'm looking for input from  
> you guys, especially the new ones.
>
> Thanks,
>
> John

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[dr. Hannibal Lecter]

Hi there,

as far as I can see, the cookbook has become an excellent tool. Since
I currently don't have internet connection at home, I just scrap the
"all in one" page and take it with me. Indeed , it has helped me many
times. I can see only one flaw, and one only. The cookbook explains
things with isolated examples, more like an extended kind of API
reference. This means that you already have to understand the basic
concepts to understand the examples in the cookbook.

I believe that we need more "simple blog tutorials", i.e. a step-by-
step guide of creating simple applications, with every little detail
explained. I think this would help the newbs a lot.

Still, the docs are pretty damn amazing and useful, kudos to everyone
who contributed!

On Jun 24, 6:11 pm, John David Anderson <anderson.jo...@...>
wrote:
> Bakers,
>
> How are we doing? What is the most confusing? What's most needed and  
> missing? I have a punchlist of my own, but I'm looking for input from  
> you guys, especially the new ones.
>
> Thanks,
>
> John
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[Alain Veylit]

My personal requests:
-- I think there should be more documentation -- or better a tutorial --
on how to add a simple search box integrated in an index display.  
Actually designing a Search component that can be easily integrated
would be fabulous. Someone had added that feature in their "masterbake"
console app if I recall, but it was a bit too complicated -- and I
stopped using it after 1.2.
--I would really like to see a good tutorial or small app on how to use
the TreeBehavior (and behaviors in general).
Alain


dr. Hannibal Lecter wrote:

> Hi there,
>
> as far as I can see, the cookbook has become an excellent tool. Since
> I currently don't have internet connection at home, I just scrap the
> "all in one" page and take it with me. Indeed , it has helped me many
> times. I can see only one flaw, and one only. The cookbook explains
> things with isolated examples, more like an extended kind of API
> reference. This means that you already have to understand the basic
> concepts to understand the examples in the cookbook.
>
> I believe that we need more "simple blog tutorials", i.e. a step-by-
> step guide of creating simple applications, with every little detail
> explained. I think this would help the newbs a lot.
>
> Still, the docs are pretty damn amazing and useful, kudos to everyone
> who contributed!
>
> On Jun 24, 6:11 pm, John David Anderson <anderson.jo...@...>
> wrote:
>  
>> Bakers,
>>
>> How are we doing? What is the most confusing? What's most needed and  
>> missing? I have a punchlist of my own, but I'm looking for input from  
>> you guys, especially the new ones.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> John
>>    
> >
>
>  

--
Alain Veylit
Application developer
Claremont Colleges Digital Library
The Libraries of the Claremont Colleges
Claremont University Consortium
909-621-8013


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[Chris Hartjes-2]

On Tue, Jun 24, 2008 at 12:17 PM, Wayne Madison
<ewaynemadison2004@...> wrote:
>
> Hello,

Thanks for showing no social skills and hijacking a thread!

--
Chris Hartjes
Internet Loudmouth
Motto for 2008: "Moving from herding elephants to handling snakes..."
@TheKeyBoard: http://www.littlehart.net/atthekeyboard

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[Donkeybob]

I love the manual, but as the good doctor said . . . i'd like to see
more hands-on code or tutorials for specific things. Kinda like the
api but with actual usage code.

and thanks wayne for the post jack! read the manual!

On Jun 24, 2:01 pm, "Chris Hartjes" <chart...@...> wrote:

> On Tue, Jun 24, 2008 at 12:17 PM, Wayne Madison
>
> <ewaynemadison2...@...> wrote:
>
> > Hello,
>
> Thanks for showing no social skills and hijacking a thread!
>
> --
> Chris Hartjes
> Internet Loudmouth
> Motto for 2008: "Moving from herding elephants to handling snakes..."
> @TheKeyBoard:http://www.littlehart.net/atthekeyboard

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[nate-23]

I totally don't get ACL.  Like, at all.  Who the heck wrote that??

On Jun 24, 12:11 pm, John David Anderson <anderson.jo...@...>
wrote:
> Bakers,
>
> How are we doing? What is the most confusing? What's most needed and  
> missing? I have a punchlist of my own, but I'm looking for input from  
> you guys, especially the new ones.
>
> Thanks,
>
> John
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[John David Anderson]

On Jun 24, 2008, at 12:22 PM, Nate wrote:

>
> I totally don't get ACL.  Like, at all.  Who the heck wrote that??

I'd have to agree - the INI stuff is especially bad.

-- John

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[Mech7]

Constraints on the join tables are still not described properly...
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[floob.spam]

I've been going at cake for a bit over one month, and I've developed a
love/hate relationship with it.  I apologize if this is a rant ...
cake documentation is a touchy subject for me, and I believe my
experiences may help you.

Understanding CakePHP has been an uphill battle the whole way, but it
is a wonderful tool with great potential.  My biggest problem (by far)
with cake is a lack of adequate, up-to-date, advanced documentation.
The book is getting better every day, but I'd like something a bit
deeper.

Specifically, I would like to see a lot more code comments,
/everywhere/.  Seeing more live examples and tutorials would be
helpful, too ... But when I don't grasp a concept, and no API,
CookBook, GoogleGroup or random Blog discusses it sufficiently, I am
forced to go digging through hundreds to thousands of lines of
(mostly) undocumented code to understand it.  Don't get me wrong, I
enjoy reading code in general, and would /like to/ enjoy reading
Cake's core code.  I just don't believe I should HAVE to take apart
the car to learn how to drive it.

It would help things tremendously to be able to read notes from the
developers: what they where thinking, what complex code segments do,
how the developers intended certain methods to be used, how objects
interact with each other, why something was done how it was, etc.
Sort of an extension to the API, maybe an order of magnitude bigger
:).  Documenting at the lowest level would allow you to breed more new
experts, giving anyone the chance to fully and easily absorb cake's
inner workings (and write knoledgeable tutorials, and contribute back,
etc.).  Writing tutorials and examples yourselves is fine ... helpful,
even ... but for an open source project especially, at this point it's
like putting a peephole in a giant black box.

Please accept my criticism knowing that I hold you in the highest
respect.  If I didn't think it were worth it, I wouldn't have
responded.  Thanks to all the core developers for your hard work on
this great project.

On Tue, Jun 24, 2008 at 11:39 AM, Mech7 <chris.de.kok@...> wrote:
>
> Constraints on the join tables are still not described properly...
> >
>

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[davidpersson-2]

I would like to see more documentation on the Translate behavior and
i18n/l10n in general.
How do I localize numbers?
How do I set up and make use of routes like www.example.org/eng/posts?
How do I switch current locale?
What about timezones?


On 24 Jun., 18:11, John David Anderson <anderson.jo...@...>
wrote:
> Bakers,
>
> How are we doing? What is the most confusing? What's most needed and  
> missing? I have a punchlist of my own, but I'm looking for input from  
> you guys, especially the new ones.
>
> Thanks,
>
> John
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[Federico Rinaldi]

I agree with Nate, I've been a cake developer for almost a year and made a few projects with ACL before I get things working.

On Tue, Jun 24, 2008 at 3:22 PM, Nate <nate.abele@...> wrote:

I totally don't get ACL.  Like, at all.  Who the heck wrote that??

On Jun 24, 12:11 pm, John David Anderson <anderson.jo...@...>
wrote:

> Bakers,
>
> How are we doing? What is the most confusing? What's most needed and  
> missing? I have a punchlist of my own, but I'm looking for input from  
> you guys, especially the new ones.
>
> Thanks,
>
> John

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[David C. Zentgraf]

Just the vaguest of ideas, but a section on "app flow" would be good I  
think.

Which parts of Cake get called in which order, which files are  
minimally relevant to a functioning application, where all the  
automagic comes from [1] etc. I think for "traditional" PHP  
programmers [2] Cake is a huge opaque blob in the beginning. Example  
apps like the blog tutorial are helping somewhat, but you'll still  
have to piece together the big picture yourself.

[1] e.g. relationship between specifying $belongsTo and the generated  
SQL
[2] i.e. page starts at the top, includes() are easy to follow, one  
instruction after the other, page ends

Chrs,
Dav

On 25 Jun 2008, at 01:11, John David Anderson wrote:

>
> Bakers,
>
> How are we doing? What is the most confusing? What's most needed and
> missing? I have a punchlist of my own, but I'm looking for input from
> you guys, especially the new ones.
>
> Thanks,
>
> John
>
> >

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[David C. Zentgraf]

I suppose I'm talking about this:
http://book.cakephp.org/view/21/a-typical-cakephp-request

Just right now I feel it's neither high-level enough nor detailled  
enough to really help. Adding code examples would be great. Following  
variables/data throughout the application would help (controller/
action Cakes::buy() is being chosen because...) etc. Explaining Model  
relationship declarations and where to call them from (why doesn't  
ModelA->ModelB->find('all') take conditions on the association into  
account).


On 25 Jun 2008, at 09:51, David C. Zentgraf wrote:

> Just the vaguest of ideas, but a section on "app flow" would be good  
> I think.
>
> Which parts of Cake get called in which order, which files are  
> minimally relevant to a functioning application, where all the  
> automagic comes from [1] etc. I think for "traditional" PHP  
> programmers [2] Cake is a huge opaque blob in the beginning. Example  
> apps like the blog tutorial are helping somewhat, but you'll still  
> have to piece together the big picture yourself.
>
> [1] e.g. relationship between specifying $belongsTo and the  
> generated SQL
> [2] i.e. page starts at the top, includes() are easy to follow, one  
> instruction after the other, page ends
>
> Chrs,
> Dav
>
> On 25 Jun 2008, at 01:11, John David Anderson wrote:
>
>>
>> Bakers,
>>
>> How are we doing? What is the most confusing? What's most needed and
>> missing? I have a punchlist of my own, but I'm looking for input from
>> you guys, especially the new ones.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> John
>>
>> >>
>

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[Daniel Hofstetter-3]

Hi John,

> How are we doing? What is the most confusing? What's most needed and  
> missing? I have a punchlist of my own, but I'm looking for input from  
> you guys, especially the new ones.

A better search function for the cookbook would be nice.

--
Daniel Hofstetter
http://cakebaker.42dh.com
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[leo-27]

Some parts of the manual are just wrong - the code examples for ACL
for example. Others don't seem to go far enough - I still can't work
out how to use a plugin.
But everybody has talked about the manual and the important thing is
that there is one.

I would like to see more verbose release notes, including reasons for
deprecation of code. I still can't see any sense in making find's
parameters so amorphous in order to eliminate a function (findAll):

    * If no fields are specified, then 'id' is used for key and 'model-
>displayField' is used for value.
    * If a single field is specified, 'id' is used for key and
specified field is used for value.
    * If three fields are specified, they are used (in order) for key,
value and group.
    * Otherwise, first and second fields are used for key and value.

This is just confusing. I don't want to read the API every time I use
this function - I'm now over forty and the goat's cheese to grey
matter ratio errs in favour of the cheese. I have trouble remembering
the names of my children. I guess most people will just end up writing
their own utility findAll.

Okay, I'm now, apparently, way off topic, but you did ask:" What is
the most confusing? What's most needed and
missing?".

In summary, accurate official (not bakery) examples of usage and loads
of them.
Release notes that tell us what we need to know, not that"...trac 4391
was changed from bug to embellishment..."
I guess the ultimate would be a PHP style chm function reference, not
that I'm a fan of chm.


> > How are we doing? What is the most confusing? What's most needed and  
> > missing? I have a punchlist of my own, but I'm looking for input from  
> > you guys, especially the new ones.

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[mbavio]

John,

In IRC, I see frequently ACL questions, of all kind. That part needs
to be improved, in my opinion.

Thanks,
mbavio

On Jun 25, 11:36 am, leo <ponton....@...> wrote:

> Some parts of the manual are just wrong - the code examples for ACL
> for example. Others don't seem to go far enough - I still can't work
> out how to use a plugin.
> But everybody has talked about the manual and the important thing is
> that there is one.
>
> I would like to see more verbose release notes, including reasons for
> deprecation of code. I still can't see any sense in making find's
> parameters so amorphous in order to eliminate a function (findAll):
>
>     * If no fields are specified, then 'id' is used for key and 'model->displayField' is used for value.
>
>     * If a single field is specified, 'id' is used for key and
> specified field is used for value.
>     * If three fields are specified, they are used (in order) for key,
> value and group.
>     * Otherwise, first and second fields are used for key and value.
>
> This is just confusing. I don't want to read the API every time I use
> this function - I'm now over forty and the goat's cheese to grey
> matter ratio errs in favour of the cheese. I have trouble remembering
> the names of my children. I guess most people will just end up writing
> their own utility findAll.
>
> Okay, I'm now, apparently, way off topic, but you did ask:" What