Do I need 4D Write?

[SwampDaddy]

I have a 2004-based DB that has always sent out custom letters  
(integrated with DB data) that has included a letterhead, etc...  
Well, they came up with a new letter that uses indented paragraphs and  
some indented items that show bullets in a list....

  Anyway, at first glance it seems that one option would be to upgrade  
the DB to make use of 4D Write. Any other thoughts?

At the moment, offering 4D Write to all users (which would be required  
with the current architecture) is cost-prohibitive.  So, I guess the  
solution is either: a) code without 4D Write somehow... or b) get one  
4D Write License and recode the DB so that the letters are tagged for  
printing and another user logs in and prints the letters... or  c)  
somehow the print job is sent to another workstation that can print  
the job.

What do you recommend?

Thanks,

Robert

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[Stephen Shaw-3]

If you are going for the one workstation option, the I would be  
tempted to look at tagged text into Indesign or Quark to give absolute  
typographic control. I did this in a previous database, and although  
quite a lot of work the results were very smart, although ultimately I  
reverted to a 4D Write option for ease of change.

Just another idea

Steve

On 12 May 2008, at 20:11, Robert Broussard wrote:

> I have a 2004-based DB that has always sent out custom letters  
> (integrated with DB data) that has included a letterhead, etc...  
> Well, they came up with a new letter that uses indented paragraphs  
> and some indented items that show bullets in a list....
>
> Anyway, at first glance it seems that one option would be to upgrade  
> the DB to make use of 4D Write. Any other thoughts?
>
> At the moment, offering 4D Write to all users (which would be  
> required with the current architecture) is cost-prohibitive.  So, I  
> guess the solution is either: a) code without 4D Write somehow... or  
> b) get one 4D Write License and recode the DB so that the letters  
> are tagged for printing and another user logs in and prints the  
> letters... or  c) somehow the print job is sent to another  
> workstation that can print the job.
>
> What do you recommend?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Robert
>
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[Peter Jakobsson-2]

You could do it in a PDF, embed the PDF in a form and use Rob  
Laveaux's PDF Viewer.

See the feature on this page called "Print high-quality artwork (i.e.  
logos) by putting the plugin area on a form"...

http://www.pluggers.nl/pdf_viewer.html

I use PDF viewer at a site which prints signs for products on the  
shop floor and it works great.

Regards

Peter

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[SwampDaddy]

[Via PM]

> I would recommend considering using PROCESS HTML TAGS and MS Word to  
> generate the output. There is a 4D Tech Note that describes this.
>
> 4D Write is a headache for what you want to do.
>
>

Does anyone know where I can find this tech note? I did not see it on  
the 4D Partner site.

Also, have any of you used this technique?

Thanks,

Robert


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[SwampDaddy]

On May 12, 2008, at 2:11 PM, Robert Broussard wrote:

> At the moment, offering 4D Write to all users (which would be  
> required with the current architecture) is cost-prohibitive.  So, I  
> guess the solution is either: a) code without 4D Write somehow... or  
> b) get one 4D Write License and recode the DB so that the letters  
> are tagged for printing and another user logs in and prints the  
> letters... or  c) somehow the print job is sent to another  
> workstation that can print the job.

I would also like to pursue option c.

How would you use 4D Write like this?  Assume that 4D Write is always  
logged in via 4D Client and that another client somehow prints a  
letter using 4D Write... How?

Thanks,

Robert

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[Jody Bevan]

Robert:

I believe what he is suggesting is that you have one workstation that  
uses the 4D license. All requests for printing that require the 4D  
write are handled by that workstation. Essentially any computer  
needing printing will create a record in the data base with the  
necessary information. The workstation that is using 4D write will  
continually poll for a record that tells it to create the document.  
When if finds a record it uses the information in the record to  
perform the task using 4D write.

This take planning, and extra code, but once done works very well. We  
use this concept for many tasks.

Jody


On May 12, 2008, at 9:31 PM, Robert Broussard wrote:

>
> On May 12, 2008, at 2:11 PM, Robert Broussard wrote:
>
>> At the moment, offering 4D Write to all users (which would be  
>> required with the current architecture) is cost-prohibitive.  So, I  
>> guess the solution is either: a) code without 4D Write somehow...  
>> or b) get one 4D Write License and recode the DB so that the  
>> letters are tagged for printing and another user logs in and prints  
>> the letters... or  c) somehow the print job is sent to another  
>> workstation that can print the job.
>
> I would also like to pursue option c.
>
> How would you use 4D Write like this?  Assume that 4D Write is  
> always logged in via 4D Client and that another client somehow  
> prints a letter using 4D Write... How?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Robert

Jody Bevan                            Jonoke Software Dev. Inc.

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[SwampDaddy]

On May 12, 2008, at 10:44 PM, Jody Bevan wrote:

> I believe what he is suggesting is that you have one workstation  
> that uses the 4D license.

Hi Jody,

The "he" in this case is yours truly....  :)

Actually no one seems to like this approach since I originally  
proposed it as an option....  other's have ignored the option or  
thought it to be a headache.  Although, I've never implemented such a  
solution it looks like it might be my best option.

BTW: what about a call to "Execute on Client" to initiate the print  
job? This might be easier than writing the code to poll the DB looking  
for a certain record.

Thanks for chiming in.

R
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[Owen Watson-2]

Another option is to use a html-based system. Slightly less control
over output, but pretty easy to code.
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[Peter Jakobsson-2]

On 13 May 2008, at 05:44, Jody Bevan wrote:

> All requests for printing that require the 4D write are handled by  
> that workstation

Do you have to ensure that this workstation is the first one to  
connect to 4D Server ? It's a few years since I used 4D Write with  
server but if I remember rightly, the workstation 'grabs' the license  
slot on server connect as opposed to the first time it encounters a  
4D Write command - am I wrong in this ?

Peter

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[Jody Bevan]

Robert:

We use Execute on Client for our instant messaging. I believe an older  
version had a problem with Execute on client in that a client could  
ignore and then miss the call to it. Thus records based was more  
dependable. The other issue is that when there is potential for over  
100 workstations making calls to the computer and with multiple types  
of requests it could easily get a thousand tasks behind. Therefore by  
using records we can schedule and prioritize the requests.

Jody


On May 12, 2008, at 10:40 PM, Robert Broussard wrote:

>
> On May 12, 2008, at 10:44 PM, Jody Bevan wrote:
>
>> I believe what he is suggesting is that you have one workstation  
>> that uses the 4D license.
>
> Hi Jody,
>
> The "he" in this case is yours truly....  :)
>
> Actually no one seems to like this approach since I originally  
> proposed it as an option....  other's have ignored the option or  
> thought it to be a headache.  Although, I've never implemented such  
> a solution it looks like it might be my best option.
>
> BTW: what about a call to "Execute on Client" to initiate the print  
> job? This might be easier than writing the code to poll the DB  
> looking for a certain record.
>
> Thanks for chiming in.
>
> R

Jody Bevan                            Jonoke Software Dev. Inc.

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[Jody Bevan]

First computer with the correct group for the plug-in will grab the  
license. If you set up 4D Write to be available only to the 'slave'  
then all other clients will not grab the license.

Jody


On May 13, 2008, at 3:01 AM, Peter Jakobsson wrote:

>
> On 13 May 2008, at 05:44, Jody Bevan wrote:
>
>> All requests for printing that require the 4D write are handled by  
>> that workstation
>
> Do you have to ensure that this workstation is the first one to  
> connect to 4D Server ? It's a few years since I used 4D Write with  
> server but if I remember rightly, the workstation 'grabs' the  
> license slot on server connect as opposed to the first time it  
> encounters a 4D Write command - am I wrong in this ?
>
> Peter
>

Jody Bevan                            Jonoke Software Dev. Inc.

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[Jesse Pina]

Here is the link for the Process HTML Tags tech note.

http://www.4d.com/knowledgebase?CaseID=35116


> > I would recommend considering using PROCESS HTML TAGS and MS Word to
> > generate the output. There is a 4D Tech Note that describes this.
> >
> > 4D Write is a headache for what you want to do.
> >
>
> Does anyone know where I can find this tech note? I did not see it on
> the 4D Partner site.

--
Jesse Pina
Technical Services Team Member
4D, Inc.
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[Chip Scheide]

This is not so hard -

a Deamon (a process that, looks for work, does work, goes to sleep,
wakes up -- repeat)
is not hard to code -
basically a repeat loop - until quit

you can have the deamon sleep for some preset time period (1 min, 10
min, 10 hours, whatever)
then by also creating a "wake up" method - ie a process that calls the
deamon (resume process)
you can start the deamon at other time points then the schedule.

The "wake up" method can be called from the server.

So flow would be something like :

* Server startup - a stored procedure, "4D Write Workstation Manager"
(to call the 4D Write Workstation "wake up" routine) is started (also a
deamon) and goes to sleep

* "4D Write Workstation" starts up - grabs 4D write license (user group
membership)
* "4D Write Workstation startup routine instantiates the 4D Write
report Deamon -
* "4D Write Workstation"/Deamon goes to sleep

* User -> generates a report that requires 4D write.
* Report generation - creates a (many) record(s) with the needed
information to print the report
* Report generation - calls/wakes (execute on server) the "4D Write
Workstation Manager"

* The "4D Write Workstation Manager" - calls (execute on client) the
"4D Write Workstation" and wakes it up.

* The "4D Write Workstation" - wakes up (either from a call from the
server or by the end of its sleep period) looks for record(s) to
process, processes them (prints the reports). Repeats looking for and
processing (report) records until there are no more.
* The "4D Write Workstation" goes back to sleep.
 
On Mon, 12 May 2008 21:44:03 -0600, Jody Bevan wrote:

>
> I believe what he is suggesting is that you have one workstation that
> uses the 4D license. All requests for printing that require the 4D
> write are handled by that workstation. Essentially any computer
> needing printing will create a record in the data base with the
> necessary information. The workstation that is using 4D write will
> continually poll for a record that tells it to create the document.
> When if finds a record it uses the information in the record to
> perform the task using 4D write.
>
> This take planning, and extra code, but once done works very well. We
> use this concept for many tasks.

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[Jack des Bouillons]

You can assign the 4D Write license to groups, so only members of the group
grab a license.

In the case proposed, only the user from the designated workstation would be
a member of the 4D Write (or whatever you'd want to call it) group.

Jack des Bouillons
Hobbs Herder Advertising


On 5/13/08 2:01 AM, "Peter Jakobsson" <lists@...> wrote:

> Do you have to ensure that this workstation is the first one to
> connect to 4D Server ? It's a few years since I used 4D Write with
> server but if I remember rightly, the workstation 'grabs' the license
> slot on server connect as opposed to the first time it encounters a
> 4D Write command - am I wrong in this ?



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[Peter Jakobsson-2]

On 13 May 2008, at 16:50, Chip Scheide wrote:

> you can have the deamon sleep for some preset time period


I think thats the type that sleeps in a coffin :)

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[Chip Scheide]

On Tue, 13 May 2008 20:09:10 +0200, Peter Jakobsson wrote:
>
>> you can have the deamon sleep for some preset time period
>
>
> I think thats the type that sleeps in a coffin :)
goes by name - Angelis (or Angel) depending on his mood  : )
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[SwampDaddy]

Guys, thanks for the wonderful input on this matter.

Assuming that I wanted to explore the Process HTML Tags approach...  
How would this approach work?

So, you would create Word files with MS Word and embed 4D Tags (which  
could be field names or Methods)....  Where would you put the Word  
Docs... in the DB or external?  Once the Word docs are processed and  
now contain data from the DB...  how will they be printed?

Thanks for the input I'm trying to wrap my head around this idea.

Regards,

Robert

On May 13, 2008, at 9:24 AM, Jesse Pina wrote:

> Here is the link for the Process HTML Tags tech note.
>
> http://www.4d.com/knowledgebase?CaseID=35116
>
>
>>> I would recommend considering using PROCESS HTML TAGS and MS Word to
>>> generate the output. There is a 4D Tech Note that describes this.
>>>
>>> 4D Write is a headache for what you want to do.
>>>
>>

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