Deploying and upgrading Volume Desktop applications

[David Dancy]

Folks

I've recently had to create a Volume Desktop application (v11.2 -
yay!) but now have to devise a strategy for perrforming upgrades when
I don't know exactly where the app is located on the user's computer.
This seems like a wheel that would have been invented long ago, but
the issue is new to me and is causing (more) grey hairs (to fall out).

Do you have any hints/tips to share about how to a) deploy and b)
provide upgrades for an "engined" application? It seems to me that the
data file will need to live in a separate folder than the application
but that's a headache for my users, who are non-technical primary
school teachers, and have no time or inclination to learn about
"program files" and "data files". They think in terms of Word
documents, and they like to install the program on their USB stick
because the stick is easier to carry around than a laptop, and every
computer at school (and at home) has Word on it, so there's no need to
have Word installed on the stick. However, I can't expect that my
program will have the same comprehensive distribution, so I've needed
to install the whole thing on the stick. Trouble is, when I upgrade
the program, unless the data file is sitting right there next to the
structure file, the users get a series of incomprehensible (to them)
messages about selecting data files and creating log files. The
alternative is to get the user to pick apart the folder structure of
the engined app (which has several folders of similar names and is
quite confusing even for a developer like me) to put the old data file
+ journal file into the internal "Database" folder of the upgraded
application. It's tricky even for me, so I don't want to inflict that
procedure on my users.

This is a long way from optimal for them and makes me look bad! :(

Any advice much appreciated...

Thanks in advance!

Cheers
--
David Dancy
Sydney, Australia
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[Cannon Smith]

In my opinion the easiest way to solve this problem would be for 4D to have an On Before Opening Data File method where you could take control for long enough to either figure out where the old data files were, create new ones, or ask the user (in a more comprehensible way) to locate the old ones. This method could return the path to the data file to use and 4D could then start.

This has been a long standing feature request, but it still hasn't been addressed. There are some ways around it, but not as flexible as that. For example, you can deploy with an empty data file inside the package (or folder) in the default location. Then have code that checks the path to the data file and if it is this empty data file, then present a dialog or go looking for the real data file. Once found, use OPEN DATA FILE to relaunch. With some coding you can also get a log file and backup system going without user intervention.

A tip on the log file: you probably want to do your build from a structure that has the log file off. That way when you deploy your code gets a chance to run and create a log file. If you don't, 4D asks the user about the log file before you get control.

HTH.


--
Cannon Smith
Synergy Farm Solutions
P.O. Box 65 -- Hill Spring, AB CANADA -- T0K 1E0
[phone] or 1-866-626-3236
<cannon@...>
<www.synergyfarmsolutions.com>



David Dancy wrote:

> This is a long way from optimal for them and makes me look bad! :(
>
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[Jack des Bouillons]

Suddenly, and without warning, I'm getting a message that the STRUCTURE and
DATA FILES to not correspond to each other.  The data file cannot be opened
with this structure.

I know what this message is...the WEDD Resources of the structure and data
file do not match..

BUT..

They DO MATCH...

They matched when the first message came up...and they matched when I
manually changes the WEDD to mtch easch other.

The structure WEDD was changed in the design environment...the data file was
changed with a copy of Customizer 2003 (which I think is the latest version
of this)...

I have to leave my office and will be back early tomorrow morning if anyone
has any suggestions so our production server can get back in business...


Jack des Bouillons
Hobbs Herder Advertising

4D Server 2004.7b3

Server is a G5 running 10.4.6





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[infobase - info]

I've had this sort of problem before where an invisible character got  
in the name somehow. Try and remove all the characters and rename the  
data file.
I'm not saying its that but at least eliminate that from the equation.

Jim
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[Jack des Bouillons]

Now..

It's NOT SO URGENT...but I'd like to know what went on!?

Got the server back up and running by setting everything back to the WEDD
NAME that was on the previous version of the structure that was built...

But..

What does this means...that the WEDD cannot be changed?  Ever?

Maybe this is a case of...

If it hurts..don't do that!

But it IS scary...

Jack



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[Jack des Bouillons]

Thanks...

But that what I did...

I changed the name twice..each time wiping out every thing...the last time I
left both blank..

The ONLY thing that worked was to reset the name back to what it had been.

I'm flumoxed.

Jack des Bouillons
Hobbs Herder Advertising


On 6/30/08 5:55 PM, "infobase - info" <info@...> wrote:

>
> I've had this sort of problem before where an invisible character got
> in the name somehow. Try and remove all the characters and rename the
> data file.
> I'm not saying its that but at least eliminate that from the equation.
>
> Jim



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[MIYAKO]

Wild guess,
  but could it be that 4D 2004 uses a different regime from 4D 2003 to  
manage WEDD resources ?

I mean, application of 2003 customizer plus on 2004 files is not  
supported.

a 2004 file would still contain the internal 'WEDD' resource,
which the customizer plus can edit,
but for security reasons, it might be looking at a different location...
i.e. the 'WEDD' internal resource might be a fake decoy.

in any case, its better to access WEDD via the language or preferences.

miyako

On 2008/07/01, at 9:43, Jack des Bouillons wrote:

> Suddenly, and without warning, I'm getting a message that the  
> STRUCTURE and
> DATA FILES to not correspond to each other.  The data file cannot be  
> opened
> with this structure.
>
> I know what this message is...the WEDD Resources of the structure  
> and data
> file do not match..
>
> BUT..
>
> They DO MATCH...
>
> They matched when the first message came up...and they matched when I
> manually changes the WEDD to mtch easch other.
>
> The structure WEDD was changed in the design environment...the data  
> file was
> changed with a copy of Customizer 2003 (which I think is the latest  
> version
> of this)...
>
> I have to leave my office and will be back early tomorrow morning if  
> anyone
> has any suggestions so our production server can get back in  
> business...
>
>
> Jack des Bouillons
> Hobbs Herder Advertising
>
> 4D Server 2004.7b3
>
> Server is a G5 running 10.4.6

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[John DeSoi]

On Jun 30, 2008, at 8:56 PM, Jack des Bouillons wrote:

> But..
>
> What does this means...that the WEDD cannot be changed?  Ever?
>
> Maybe this is a case of...
>
> If it hurts..don't do that!
>
> But it IS scary...

Yes, that was my conclusion also.

http://article.gmane.org/gmane.comp.lang.inug-4d.tech/38196/


John DeSoi, Ph.D.




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[David Dancy]

Thanks for your advice Cannon. I'll have a look at building in an
upgrade strategy when I'm next editing the program. Sounds like I
might need to experiment a little, too...

Cheers

David
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[Peter Jakobsson-2]

Jack -

Did you try changing the WEDD resource name in the preferences with  
4D Single User, Uncompiled while logged on to the live data file ?

That's how I've always done it in the past. I had to do loads of them  
a while back for a vertical market app. This method never gave me any  
problems as it appeared that 4D would change both the structure and  
data WEDD resources simultaneously and in a properly co-ordinated  
manner.


On 1 Jul 2008, at 04:37, MIYAKO wrote:
> Wild guess,
>  but could it be that 4D 2004 uses a different regime from 4D 2003  
> to manage WEDD resources ?

I'd say more than a wild guess.

Peter

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[jpupier]

Hi Jack,

Create a new blank database, copy the .4DR and RSR near your old structure.



Amicalement,

Jérôme
----------------------------------------------
Let the rhino keep its horn
- Jul 7,2006
West Africa's version of the black rhino appears
to be extinct, the World Conservation Union
said on Friday. (Reuters)

http://www.worldcommunitygrid.org/ : 4D DevTeam

----------------------------------------------

On Tue, Jul 1, 2008 at 2:43 AM, Jack des Bouillons <
jack.desbouillons@...> wrote:

> Suddenly, and without warning, I'm getting a message that the STRUCTURE and
> DATA FILES to not correspond to each other.  The data file cannot be opened
> with this structure.
>
> I know what this message is...the WEDD Resources of the structure and data
> file do not match..
>
> BUT..
>
> They DO MATCH...
>
> They matched when the first message came up...and they matched when I
> manually changes the WEDD to mtch easch other.
>
> The structure WEDD was changed in the design environment...the data file
> was
> changed with a copy of Customizer 2003 (which I think is the latest version
> of this)...
>
> I have to leave my office and will be back early tomorrow morning if anyone
> has any suggestions so our production server can get back in business...
>
>
> Jack des Bouillons
> Hobbs Herder Advertising
>
> 4D Server 2004.7b3
>
> Server is a G5 running 10.4.6
>
>
>
>
>
> **********************************************************************
> 4D Server v11 SQL has arrived!
> Buy it NOW at http://store.4ddepot.com
>
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[Scott Gelvin-2]

Jack,

I can confirm this. A conversion from 2003 -> 2004 does not remove the  
WEDD resource from the .RSR / .4DR files, but it does *copy* them into  
the .4DB / .4DD files. 4th Dimension 2003's Preferences and Customizer  
2003.x modifies the WEDD *resource*; 4th Dimension 2004's Preferences  
modifies the WEDD *data element*. They are now different beasts.

You can use Customizer or 4D 2003's Preferences to set the WEDD of the  
data file to the value in the new 2004 structure *before* opening the  
data with 4D 2004 and the new structure.

If the data is already updated, you can create a new blank data file  
for the 2004 structure, change the WEDD value to reflect the 2003  
version, then open the real data file, and reset the WEDD back to its  
desired new state.

Scott Gelvin
Footprints, Inc.
4D specialists since 1987

On Jun 30, 2008, at 8:37 PM, MIYAKO wrote:

> Wild guess,
> but could it be that 4D 2004 uses a different regime from 4D 2003 to  
> manage WEDD resources ?
>
> I mean, application of 2003 customizer plus on 2004 files is not  
> supported.
>
> a 2004 file would still contain the internal 'WEDD' resource,
> which the customizer plus can edit,
> but for security reasons, it might be looking at a different  
> location...
> i.e. the 'WEDD' internal resource might be a fake decoy.
>
> in any case, its better to access WEDD via the language or  
> preferences.
>
> miyako
>
> On 2008/07/01, at 9:43, Jack des Bouillons wrote:
>
>> Suddenly, and without warning, I'm getting a message that the  
>> STRUCTURE and
>> DATA FILES to not correspond to each other.  The data file cannot  
>> be opened
>> with this structure.
>>
>> I know what this message is...the WEDD Resources of the structure  
>> and data
>> file do not match..
>>
>> BUT..
>>
>> They DO MATCH...
>>
>> They matched when the first message came up...and they matched when I
>> manually changes the WEDD to mtch easch other.
>>
>> The structure WEDD was changed in the design environment...the data  
>> file was
>> changed with a copy of Customizer 2003 (which I think is the latest  
>> version
>> of this)...
>>
>> I have to leave my office and will be back early tomorrow morning  
>> if anyone
>> has any suggestions so our production server can get back in  
>> business...
>>
>>
>> Jack des Bouillons
>> Hobbs Herder Advertising
>>
>> 4D Server 2004.7b3
>>
>> Server is a G5 running 10.4.6
>
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[Jack des Bouillons]

Yes, I did that as well...

The ONLY thing that solved the immediate problem was to change the WEDD name
back to the original name.

Jack des Bouillons


On 7/1/08 12:51 AM, "Peter Jakobsson" <lists@...> wrote:

> Jack -
>
> Did you try changing the WEDD resource name in the preferences with
> 4D Single User, Uncompiled while logged on to the live data file ?



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[Jack des Bouillons]

I don't think you can access the DATA FILE WEDD through preferences...the
preference sets the STUCTURE WEDD...

As far as the language is concerned...for code to work, you would have to
first launch the application..and you can't do that if the structure and
data files aren't a match...Catch-22...

Thanks for your thoughts.

Jack des Bouillons


On 6/30/08 7:37 PM, "MIYAKO" <miyako@...> wrote:

> a 2004 file would still contain the internal 'WEDD' resource,
> which the customizer plus can edit,
> but for security reasons, it might be looking at a different location...
> i.e. the 'WEDD' internal resource might be a fake decoy.
>
> in any case, its better to access WEDD via the language or preferences.



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[jpupier]

Maybe the old 4DCutomizer may help...



Amicalement,

Jérôme
----------------------------------------------
Let the rhino keep its horn
- Jul 7,2006
West Africa's version of the black rhino appears
to be extinct, the World Conservation Union
said on Friday. (Reuters)

http://www.worldcommunitygrid.org/ : 4D DevTeam

----------------------------------------------

On Tue, Jul 1, 2008 at 5:13 PM, Jack des Bouillons <
jack.desbouillons@...> wrote:

> Yes, I did that as well...
>
> The ONLY thing that solved the immediate problem was to change the WEDD
> name
> back to the original name.
>
> Jack des Bouillons
>
>
> On 7/1/08 12:51 AM, "Peter Jakobsson" <lists@...> wrote:
>
> > Jack -
> >
> > Did you try changing the WEDD resource name in the preferences with
> > 4D Single User, Uncompiled while logged on to the live data file ?
>
>
>
> **********************************************************************
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[Jack des Bouillons]

That is what I used to set and tried to modify the data file WEDD resource.

Jack des Bouillons


On 7/1/08 9:23 AM, "jerome pupier" <jpupier@...> wrote:

>
> Maybe the old 4DCutomizer may help...
>
>
>
> Amicalement,
>
> Jérôme



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