Nabble - Debian KDE

Re: [KDE 4.1 backports] yakuake missing

2008-09-06T12:18:15Z

Never heard of it until this thread.

Installed it off Debian experimental. Truly a nice app. The minimalist view is
nicest but want to have tabs available so a thinner design might be nicer. I
am also confused on tabs/sessions/splits. But it all works great.

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Re: [KDE 4.1 backports] yakuake missing

2008-09-06T02:15:25Z

On Thu, Sep 04, 2008 at 03:50:02PM -0400, Ben E. Hard wrote:
> Hi Ana,
>
> first of all sorry for the "he"... Meanwhile I realized my mistake and
> apologize for that masculine behaviour of assuming that most of computer
> specialists are men... And thanks for your kde-debian-work.
>

No problem! :)

> Am Donnerstag 04 September 2008 schrieben Sie:
> > On Thu, Sep 04, 2008 at 09:39:32AM -0400, Ben E. Hard wrote:
> > > Modestas Vainius wrote:
>
> > >
> > > I know that it is only an additional feature and that Ana doesn't want to
> > > provide the "best possible KDE 4.1 desktop experience" in Lenny. But why
> > > shouldn't he or somebody else provide a good experience with some more
> > > KDE4 programs for Lenny?
> >
> > Modax provided you a very good argument about this....
> > If you *really* want the best KDE 4.X desktop experience, you should use
> > now the experimental packages, help reporting (*) and fixing bugs on those
> > packages.
>
> So if I want to report bugs, I should rather use experimental packages (or
> keep them, as they haven't yet been replaced by the backport ones) than the
> backport ones? I'm not able to fix any bugs, as I'm not a developer, but I do
> report bugs. Would it then be the best idea, to switch completely to sid even
> before it becomes testing?
>

Yes, please, only report bugs against experimental packages... *if you are using
them*. If you are using backports packages, then when you have a nasty bug ask
in the mailing list.

Mind that the backports are damned to be *behind* the experimental packages,
since they are backport of these packages. This is good because more grave
issues are detected in these packages and fixes are already in the backports
when they are made. But even after backports are made, more grave issues
can be reported and fixed only in experimental. Or how it is the case currently,
experimental contains 4.1.1 and backports are 4.1.0.

In the end of you mail you got this, but i still wanted to expand a bit the
reasons :)

> > (*) no packaging bugs should go to bugs.kde.org if you want to be helpful
> That is one thing, I never really understood: how do I know if a bug is a
> packaging bug or one which should be reported upstream? (of course there are
> evident ones like missing libaries, but what, if the application crashes for
> example?)

I understand your concern in this, and I agree sometimes it is not easy. So
you have to try applying common sense here, with time hopefully you learn and know
where you have to report it.
In my opinion, crashes (with backtraces [1]), should be sent to upstream that
in this case is at http://bugs.kde.org , because people there is using very
different distros so if the crash is caused by a very specific problem in a
distros, users from another distros will tell you it works for them and you
will have a good argument when reproting the problem in your distro. Sometimes
it is caused by a specific version of a dependecy, and reporting to upstream
also helps.

[1]
http://techbase.kde.org/Development/Tutorials/Debugging/How_to_create_useful_crash_reports

Ana

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Re: [KDE 4.1 backports] yakuake missing

2008-09-06T01:46:43Z

Hi!

On Thu, Sep 04, 2008 at 03:27:00PM -0400, Ben E. Hard wrote:
> I would be willing to do some packaging and to contribute, but I'm afraid to be not of very much help, as I have never done that (besides of building debs for my one. I know there is a lot of information about packaging on the net, but I currently don't have the time either). I didn't want to push anybody to do the packaging, but was just wandering about the policy to only include official kde4 modules. Time is a very good reason not to include much more, especially as there is a lot do in packaging kde-stuff for you folks, I assume.
>

For the record, at least with the 4.1.x series, it is more important helping
in the experimental packages that in the backport, a good handling in the
experimentla packages make it very easy to backport.
Lke 90% of the time is building and testing, and i am afraid I am the only one
who can do that. Unless somebody else *trustable* in the team wants to build
the final releases, but it is not currently the case.

> > These are Lenny backports (so they are more "future stable" backports than
> > testing backports). You can be pretty sure that it will take a while until
> > KDE 4 migrates to testing after it enters unstable. But backports will
> > stay Lenny not Squeeze ones during that period.
>
> I see. Hope that with the release of KDE 4.2 they might migrate to testing.
>
I expect this, but remember when 4.2.x will be migrating to testing, testing
will be "squeeze" and it won't have too much to do with current testing.

Ana

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Re: [KDE 4.1 backports] yakuake missing

2008-09-04T12:50:02Z

Hi Ana,

first of all sorry for the "he"... Meanwhile I realized my mistake and
apologize for that masculine behaviour of assuming that most of computer
specialists are men... And thanks for your kde-debian-work.

Am Donnerstag 04 September 2008 schrieben Sie:
> On Thu, Sep 04, 2008 at 09:39:32AM -0400, Ben E. Hard wrote:
> > Modestas Vainius wrote:

> >
> > I know that it is only an additional feature and that Ana doesn't want to
> > provide the "best possible KDE 4.1 desktop experience" in Lenny. But why
> > shouldn't he or somebody else provide a good experience with some more
> > KDE4 programs for Lenny?
>
> Modax provided you a very good argument about this....
> If you *really* want the best KDE 4.X desktop experience, you should use
> now the experimental packages, help reporting (*) and fixing bugs on those
> packages.

So if I want to report bugs, I should rather use experimental packages (or
keep them, as they haven't yet been replaced by the backport ones) than the
backport ones? I'm not able to fix any bugs, as I'm not a developer, but I do
report bugs. Would it then be the best idea, to switch completely to sid even
before it becomes testing?

> (*) no packaging bugs should go to bugs.kde.org if you want to be helpful
That is one thing, I never really understood: how do I know if a bug is a
packaging bug or one which should be reported upstream? (of course there are
evident ones like missing libaries, but what, if the application crashes for
example?)
>

> >
> > Why not? Why that fundamentalism? Don't you want to leave it to Ana which
> > packages he includes?
>
> Modax and me have talked a bit about the backports (remember we both belong
> to the kde team), so he knows a bit what i'm planning and what not.
>

> >
> > Why do you think it is without support? Of course there is no official
> > support of debian, but Ana kindly responds to that mailinglist.
>
> It is without support in the sense we are not providing security updates or
> fixes for very important issues as you get in unstable ot stable (and even
> in testing).
>

> >
> > Of course, but I have the feeling that these backports are meant to help
> > testing users to use KDE4 right now before Lenny is released. The
> > backports won't include anything after KDE 4.1.x (so are the plans
> > according to kde4.debian.net), as the backports will be useless once
> > official KDE4-packages appear in testing.
>
> I disagree with this. Main purpose of backports is allow users to know what
> is going on in KDE 4.1 without breaking their *Stable* systems, and if they
> like it, then they might consider switching to testing/unstable when 4.2.x
> comes. Actually, users wanting a *seriously* stable system will still stick
> with 3.5 for a while, that let's remember is still maintained by upstream
> and in Debian.

Ok, that makes it all different -- if KDE 4.1 in the backports is more meant to
help people to try it out on a stable system, there is no need to package much
more for them then the official modules. That makes my question above about
which packages I should use if moving completely to KDE 4 obsolete, I think,
as the answer would be to take the experimental ones.

Ben

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Re: [KDE 4.1 backports] yakuake missing

2008-09-04T12:27:00Z

Hi,

Modestas Vainius wrote:

(and Lisandro + Ana)

> Hi,
>
> ketvirtadienis 04 Rugsėjis 2008, Ben E. Hard rašė:
>> I know that it is only an additional feature and that Ana doesn't want to
>> provide the "best possible KDE 4.1 desktop experience" in Lenny. But why
>> shouldn't he or somebody else provide a good experience with some more
>> KDE4 programs for Lenny?
>> Why not? Why that fundamentalism? Don't you want to leave it to Ana which
>> packages he includes?
> I'm just expressing my opinion and not objecting to anything (as I'm not
> actually doing backports). Backporting is quite a time consuming job.
> Having an app A backported will rise a question why B or C can't be
> backported. However, Ana has already replied that she is considering
> including yakauke in backports.

I would be willing to do some packaging and to contribute, but I'm afraid to be not of very much help, as I have never done that (besides of building debs for my one. I know there is a lot of information about packaging on the net, but I currently don't have the time either). I didn't want to push anybody to do the packaging, but was just wandering about the policy to only include official kde4 modules. Time is a very good reason not to include much more, especially as there is a lot do in packaging kde-stuff for you folks, I assume.

> These are Lenny backports (so they are more "future stable" backports than
> testing backports). You can be pretty sure that it will take a while until
> KDE 4 migrates to testing after it enters unstable. But backports will
> stay Lenny not Squeeze ones during that period.

I see. Hope that with the release of KDE 4.2 they might migrate to testing.

Thanks,
Ben

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Re: [KDE 4.1 backports] yakuake missing

2008-09-04T12:00:36Z

On Thu, Sep 04, 2008 at 09:39:32AM -0400, Ben E. Hard wrote:

> Modestas Vainius wrote:
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > trečiadienis 03 rugsėjis 2008, Ben E. Hard rašė:
> >> Ok, then it is not missing, but I miss it :-) Still that policy will
> >> probably become if not a problem, then at least something uncomfortable:
> >> with each new application being ported to kde4 and not being included in
> >> lenny, one would have to get it from experimental.
> > That's exactly what this policy is supposed to protect from. New
> > applications will be released and some users will definitely want them.
> > You should look at KDE 4.1 backports for Lenny as an additional
> > feature/service. Actually, as KDE 4.1 could not be included in Lenny due
> > to unfortunate release timing and a few other issues, we thought that
> > adventurous Lenny users should not be left only with aging KDE 3.5. Sorry,
> > but it's never been a goal to provide the best possible KDE 4.1 desktop
> > experience in Lenny.
> I know that it is only an additional feature and that Ana doesn't want to provide the "best possible KDE 4.1 desktop experience" in Lenny. But why shouldn't he or somebody else provide a good experience with some more KDE4 programs for Lenny?
>

Modax provided you a very good argument about this....
If you *really* want the best KDE 4.X desktop experience, you should use now
the experimental packages, help reporting (*) and fixing bugs on those
packages.

(*) no packaging bugs should go to bugs.kde.org if you want to be helpful

> >>But I'm not saying you should do all that work of packing all
> >>kde4-programms.
> > Criteria is set - backports of official KDE 4.1.x modules. No more or
> > less. I do not think that making exceptions is a good thing.
> Why not? Why that fundamentalism? Don't you want to leave it to Ana which packages he includes?

Modax and me have talked a bit about the backports (remember we both belong
to the kde team), so he knows a bit what i'm planning and what not.

> >>If not, the idea of using lenny + kde4 will always be a mix of kde3 + 4
> >>with
> > some programs not working or not integrating completely in kde4
> > KDE 4.1 desktop in Lenny is an *additional* and *unofficial* feature which
> > you can use as it is with no support (as in no fixing of Lenny-only
> > issues).
>
> Why do you think it is without support? Of course there is no official support of debian, but Ana kindly responds to that mailinglist.
>

It is without support in the sense we are not providing security updates or
fixes for very important issues as you get in unstable ot stable (and even in
testing).

> > Basically, Lenny will always be like this as you see it now (with
> > regard to software up-to-dateness). Finally, you probably do not want to
> > use Debian stable release anyway. Once Lenny is released, keep using
> > testing ("Squeeze") and it eventually will get the whole KDE 4.x desktop
> > and other KDE 4 applications.
>
> Of course, but I have the feeling that these backports are meant to help testing users to use KDE4 right now before Lenny is released. The backports won't include anything after KDE 4.1.x (so are the plans according to kde4.debian.net), as the backports will be useless once official KDE4-packages appear in testing.
>

I disagree with this. Main purpose of backports is allow users to know what is
going on in KDE 4.1 without breaking their *Stable* systems, and if they like
it, then they might consider switching to testing/unstable when 4.2.x comes.
Actually, users wanting a *seriously* stable system will still stick with 3.5
for a while, that let's remember is still maintained by upstream and in
Debian.
If we have released lenny with kde 4.1 it would have been 4.1.0 all the cycle
and never would have got updated, so the backport solution seemed a better deal
even if we do not continue with 4.2.x

And for the record, i am a "she".

Ana

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Re: [KDE 4.1 backports] yakuake missing

2008-09-04T11:02:02Z

Hi,

ketvirtadienis 04 Rugsėjis 2008, Ben E. Hard rašė:
> I know that it is only an additional feature and that Ana doesn't want to
> provide the "best possible KDE 4.1 desktop experience" in Lenny. But why
> shouldn't he or somebody else provide a good experience with some more KDE4
> programs for Lenny?
> Why not? Why that fundamentalism? Don't you want to leave it to Ana which
> packages he includes?
I'm just expressing my opinion and not objecting to anything (as I'm not
actually doing backports). Backporting is quite a time consuming job. Having
an app A backported will rise a question why B or C can't be backported.
However, Ana has already replied that she is considering including yakauke in
backports.

> Why do you think it is without support? Of course there is no official
> support of debian, but Ana kindly responds to that mailinglist.
I did not mean such support. Your request is actually a perfectly valid
support request (old software does not work with KDE4, you want a newer
version) also. Frankly, you give a pretty good reason as KDE3 version is
completely unusable.

> Of course, but I have the feeling that these backports are meant to help
> testing users to use KDE4 right now before Lenny is released. The backports
> won't include anything after KDE 4.1.x (so are the plans according to
> kde4.debian.net), as the backports will be useless once official
> KDE4-packages appear in testing.
These are Lenny backports (so they are more "future stable" backports than
testing backports). You can be pretty sure that it will take a while until KDE
4 migrates to testing after it enters unstable. But backports will stay Lenny
not Squeeze ones during that period.

--
Modestas Vainius <modestas@...>

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Re: [KDE 4.1 backports] yakuake missing

2008-09-04T07:45:48Z

On Thursday 04 September 2008 10:39:32 Ben E. Hard wrote:
[snip]

> > That's exactly what this policy is supposed to protect from. New
> > applications will be released and some users will definitely want them.
> > You should look at KDE 4.1 backports for Lenny as an additional
> > feature/service. Actually, as KDE 4.1 could not be included in Lenny due
> > to unfortunate release timing and a few other issues, we thought that
> > adventurous Lenny users should not be left only with aging KDE 3.5.
> > Sorry, but it's never been a goal to provide the best possible KDE 4.1
> > desktop experience in Lenny.
>
> I know that it is only an additional feature and that Ana doesn't want to
> provide the "best possible KDE 4.1 desktop experience" in Lenny. But why
> shouldn't he or somebody else provide a good experience with some more KDE4
> programs for Lenny?
>
> >>But I'm not saying you should do all that work of packing all
> >>kde4-programms.
> >
> > Criteria is set - backports of official KDE 4.1.x modules. No more or
> > less. I do not think that making exceptions is a good thing.
>
> Why not? Why that fundamentalism? Don't you want to leave it to Ana which
> packages he includes?

Both of your question above resume in the same answer: lack of man power.
The group needs it's resources to other more important stuff (remember
backports are unofficial).

Of course, you are most welcomed to do the backport's packaging. I don't know
if we have the necessary server space for that, but I guess something can be
arranged if you decide to help with that :-)

[snip]
> > some programs not working or not integrating completely in kde4
> > KDE 4.1 desktop in Lenny is an *additional* and *unofficial* feature
> > which you can use as it is with no support (as in no fixing of Lenny-only
> > issues).
>
> Why do you think it is without support? Of course there is no official
> support of debian, but Ana kindly responds to that mailinglist.

And, AFAIK, she is the only one doing the backports. That's the problem :-)

> > Basically, Lenny will always be like this as you see it now (with
> > regard to software up-to-dateness). Finally, you probably do not want to
> > use Debian stable release anyway. Once Lenny is released, keep using
> > testing ("Squeeze") and it eventually will get the whole KDE 4.x desktop
> > and other KDE 4 applications.
>
> Of course, but I have the feeling that these backports are meant to help
> testing users to use KDE4 right now before Lenny is released. The backports
> won't include anything after KDE 4.1.x (so are the plans according to
> kde4.debian.net), as the backports will be useless once official
> KDE4-packages appear in testing.

Most Lenny users that wanted to test KDE 4 I know switched to the experimental
repos, using Sid. They are quite happy with them.

So, you are surelly most welcomed to help improve the backports :-)

Regards, Lisandro.

--
Simulations are not data. In God we trust,
all the others must supply data.
Walter Opyd

Lisandro Damián Nicanor Pérez Meyer
http://perezmeyer.com.ar/
http://perezmeyer.blogspot.com/

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Re: [KDE 4.1 backports] yakuake missing

2008-09-04T06:39:32Z

Modestas Vainius wrote:

> Hi,
>
> trečiadienis 03 rugsėjis 2008, Ben E. Hard rašė:
>> Ok, then it is not missing, but I miss it :-) Still that policy will
>> probably become if not a problem, then at least something uncomfortable:
>> with each new application being ported to kde4 and not being included in
>> lenny, one would have to get it from experimental.
> That's exactly what this policy is supposed to protect from. New
> applications will be released and some users will definitely want them.
> You should look at KDE 4.1 backports for Lenny as an additional
> feature/service. Actually, as KDE 4.1 could not be included in Lenny due
> to unfortunate release timing and a few other issues, we thought that
> adventurous Lenny users should not be left only with aging KDE 3.5. Sorry,
> but it's never been a goal to provide the best possible KDE 4.1 desktop
> experience in Lenny.

I know that it is only an additional feature and that Ana doesn't want to provide the "best possible KDE 4.1 desktop experience" in Lenny. But why shouldn't he or somebody else provide a good experience with some more KDE4 programs for Lenny?

>>But I'm not saying you should do all that work of packing all
>>kde4-programms.
> Criteria is set - backports of official KDE 4.1.x modules. No more or
> less. I do not think that making exceptions is a good thing.
Why not? Why that fundamentalism? Don't you want to leave it to Ana which packages he includes?

>
>>Would they be included in the normal backports?
> Depends. first of all Lenny needs to be released and current stuff in
> experimental to enter a new testing via unstable. Only then "normal
> backports" can be made.
>
>>If not, the idea of using lenny + kde4 will always be a mix of kde3 + 4
>>with
> some programs not working or not integrating completely in kde4
> KDE 4.1 desktop in Lenny is an *additional* and *unofficial* feature which
> you can use as it is with no support (as in no fixing of Lenny-only
> issues).

Why do you think it is without support? Of course there is no official support of debian, but Ana kindly responds to that mailinglist.

> Basically, Lenny will always be like this as you see it now (with
> regard to software up-to-dateness). Finally, you probably do not want to
> use Debian stable release anyway. Once Lenny is released, keep using
> testing ("Squeeze") and it eventually will get the whole KDE 4.x desktop
> and other KDE 4 applications.

Of course, but I have the feeling that these backports are meant to help testing users to use KDE4 right now before Lenny is released. The backports won't include anything after KDE 4.1.x (so are the plans according to kde4.debian.net), as the backports will be useless once official KDE4-packages appear in testing.

Greetings,
Ben

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Re: KDE4 composite kwin + Intel GPU

2008-09-04T06:16:06Z

Dne čt 4. září 2008 Laurent Léonard napsal(a):
> ...
> OpenGL, but XRender works too. I don't know what are the differences
> but XRender works with a virtual area (to allow multiple screens) so it
> works without 3D acceleration...

Thanks. It's the same setup I have, I wonder if it's an issue of some
obscure configuration, but I don't think I messed with anything relevant.
I might try some live cds with KDE4 and see how it performs there.

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Re: KDE4 composite kwin + Intel GPU

2008-09-04T03:31:33Z

On Thursday 2008-09-04, Jan Krajicek wrote:
> Dne čt 4. září 2008 Laurent Léonard napsal(a):
> > It works great for me on my Toshiba Portégé R500 (Intel 950GM
> > graphics). I use the "KDE 4.1.x backports for Lenny" repository.
>
> Hmm, I have the same graphics card and using the same repo. You didn't
> have to tweak anything in xorg.conf (and therefore use EXA AccelMethod by
> default) ?

that was changed in a recent upload, the intel driver uses XAA by default
for intel 950M ATM
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KDE 4.1 xinerama

2008-09-03T22:56:08Z

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Hi,

...when I first installed KDE 4.1 in SID from experimental repository, I was
able to drag a full-screen window from my XINERAMA SCREEN1 to my SCREEN2. This
was a handy feature, since new windows are always created on SCREEN1
(notebook), but my primary screen to work with is SCREEN2 (LCD display).

After an update (shortly after initial KDE 4.1 was released), this feature
disappeared? So now, I have to use "restore" on the new windows (== get
original size, not full-screen anymore) to be able to drag them from one
screen to the other...

Is this a known bug, or did I just fiddle around with some settings and
disabled this feature by accident?

Thanks,

Andy

- --
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Elves on strike. (Why do they call EMAG Elf Magic)

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Yakuake and locale

2008-09-03T20:57:35Z

Hi, I use my KDE4 in spanish and noticed that yakuake from experimental
for some reason insists on using language en_US

from yakuake:
$ locale
LANG=es_CR.UTF-8
LANGUAGE=en_US
...

from konsole
$ locale
LANG=es_CR.UTF-8
LANGUAGE=es
...

Is there any config that I'm missing?

Saludos
Niko

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Re: KDE4 composite kwin + Intel GPU

2008-09-03T18:24:20Z

Le jeudi 04 septembre 2008 à 02:58, Jan Krajicek a écrit :
> Dne čt 4. září 2008 Laurent Léonard napsal(a):
> > It works great for me on my Toshiba Portégé R500 (Intel 950GM
> > graphics). I use the "KDE 4.1.x backports for Lenny" repository.
>
> Hmm, I have the same graphics card and using the same repo. You didn't
> have to tweak anything in xorg.conf (and therefore use EXA AccelMethod by
> default) ?

No tweak, I have the default Xorg configuration. 3D acceleration works out of
the box...

>
> Your laptop has a Core 2 duo processor just like mine. Are you using
> amd64 or i686 Debian?

amd64

>
> Lastly, are you using OpenGL (default) or XRender for composite effects?

OpenGL, but XRender works too. I don't know what are the differences but
XRender works with a virtual area (to allow multiple screens) so it works
without 3D acceleration...

--
Laurent Léonard

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Re: KDE4 composite kwin + Intel GPU

2008-09-03T17:58:07Z

Dne čt 4. září 2008 Laurent Léonard napsal(a):
> It works great for me on my Toshiba Portégé R500 (Intel 950GM
> graphics). I use the "KDE 4.1.x backports for Lenny" repository.

Hmm, I have the same graphics card and using the same repo. You didn't
have to tweak anything in xorg.conf (and therefore use EXA AccelMethod by
default) ?

Your laptop has a Core 2 duo processor just like mine. Are you using
amd64 or i686 Debian?

Lastly, are you using OpenGL (default) or XRender for composite effects?

I wonder why we're getting so different results on such similar hardware
(the 4g EeePC has GMA 900, which I thought might be why it works for Sune
Vuorela, apparently it's more complicated).

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Re: KDE4 composite kwin + Intel GPU

2008-09-03T17:35:22Z

Le mardi 02 septembre 2008 à 23:14, Jan Krajicek a écrit :

> Hi,
>
> Is there someone here using KDE 4 with composite effects on an Intel GPU?
> If so, which AccelMethod (configured in xorg.conf in the "Device" section)
> are you using, "EXA" (the default) or "XAA"?
>
> I tried the KDE 4 backported packages for Lenny and I'm having some issues
> with composite effects on this laptop (integrated Intel GPU), the default
> EXA AccelMethod has terrible performance (even with tweaks
> like "MigrationHeuristic" "greedy" that were suggested somewhere), and
> with XAA (which is obsolete) I can't play any videos with composite
> effects on, as both xine and mplayer crash with BadAlloc errors.
>
> I found some seemingly relevant bugs on various trackers, it's hard to say
> if the problem is in KDE, X, or the intel driver (there are probably
> multiple issues), I'm wondering if someone actually has it working.

It works great for me on my Toshiba Portégé R500 (Intel 950GM graphics). I use
the "KDE 4.1.x backports for Lenny" repository.

--
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Re: KDE4 composite kwin + Intel GPU

2008-09-03T15:44:33Z

Dne st 3. září 2008 Christoph Burgmer napsal(a):
> KWin, composite, Intel, bad performance are all keywords that match for
> me, see my post on the 2nd of August to this list (6 pm UTC). I for my
> part have given up right now and enjoy KDE4 without animations. Do keep
> us updated though once you find a solution.

I wonder if the newer intel drivers in experimental (2.4.1, Lenny has
2.3.2) would help things. They don't seem to be easily installable,
unfortunately.
Another thing to try would be the obsolete "real" i810 driver (the one in
Debian is actually linked to the "intel" driver).

I haven't experienced any graphical glitches myself, mostly just very
inadequate performance.
My experience with composite effects in short:
- Using the default "EXA" AccelMethod: effects work fine, terrible
performance, using XRender didn't seem to help
- Using "XAA": perfect performance, but can't play any video, didn't try
XRender
Since XAA is obsolete, I'd rather see EXA working than work around the XAA
problems (I did find some poor workarounds for the video issue...).

I'm reverting to KDE 3 for now, composite effects were the main attraction
for me and otherwise I'm still missing some functionality (khotkeys).

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Re: [KDE 4.1 backports] yakuake missing

2008-09-03T14:14:31Z

Hi,

trečiadienis 03 rugsėjis 2008, Ben E. Hard rašė:
> Ok, then it is not missing, but I miss it :-) Still that policy will
> probably become if not a problem, then at least something uncomfortable:
> with each new application being ported to kde4 and not being included in
> lenny, one would have to get it from experimental.
That's exactly what this policy is supposed to protect from. New applications
will be released and some users will definitely want them. You should look at
KDE 4.1 backports for Lenny as an additional feature/service. Actually, as KDE
4.1 could not be included in Lenny due to unfortunate release timing and a few
other issues, we thought that adventurous Lenny users should not be left only
with aging KDE 3.5. Sorry, but it's never been a goal to provide the best
possible KDE 4.1 desktop experience in Lenny.

>But I'm not saying you should do all that work of packing all kde4-programms.
Criteria is set - backports of official KDE 4.1.x modules. No more or less. I
do not think that making exceptions is a good thing.

>Would they be included in the normal backports?
Depends. first of all Lenny needs to be released and current stuff in
experimental to enter a new testing via unstable. Only then "normal
backports" can be made.

>If not, the idea of using lenny + kde4 will always be a mix of kde3 + 4 with
some programs not working or not integrating completely in kde4
KDE 4.1 desktop in Lenny is an *additional* and *unofficial* feature which you
can use as it is with no support (as in no fixing of Lenny-only issues).
Basically, Lenny will always be like this as you see it now (with regard to
software up-to-dateness). Finally, you probably do not want to use Debian
stable release anyway. Once Lenny is released, keep using testing ("Squeeze")
and it eventually will get the whole KDE 4.x desktop and other KDE 4
applications.

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Re: For those using nVidia cards and having performance issues in KDE4

2008-09-03T09:57:50Z

On Wed, Sep 3, 2008 at 11:42 AM, Carlos <cgalisteo@...> wrote:

On Wed, Sep 3, 2008 at 3:53 PM, Cassiano Leal <cassianoleal@...> wrote:

> I agree that the KDE wiki is also a good place, but I'm not sure why not
> Debian's too, as it does apply to Debian..

Of course this information could be also added to Debian wiki, but
(IMHO) maintaining duplicated (and eventually desynchronized) stuff is
not a good idea.

Anyway, you can register yourself at wiki.debian.org and create a new
page. If these tips solves my nvidia+kde4 issues I promise to tell my
experience there :)

I shall do, but I would like to hear from more people first as info on the wiki might be seen as official documentation and I would not like to give false information there.

Therefore, if other users here on the list try it, please post your experiences so that we can post more accurate info on the wiki.

Thanks,
Cassiano Leal

Re: KDE4 composite kwin + Intel GPU

2008-09-03T08:42:44Z

On Wednesday 03 September 2008 08:52:18 Yannick wrote:

> Lisandro Damián Nicanor Pérez Meyer wrote:
> > I have just bought a mother with an ATI Radeon RS690. With the open
> > radeonhd drivers there is almost no OpenGL acceleration, and no effects
> > (except I am missing something...)
>
> There is no acceleration but you can use kwin effects using XRender in the
> advanced options (configuration center > desktop effects).
>
> At least, it works on my laptop with an HD3470 and radeonhd.
>
> Yannick

Great :-D Thanks!

--
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solution to a problem. There are talents that are specifically
related to actually coding, but the real issue is being able
to grasp problems and devise solutions that are detailed enough
to actually be coded.
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Re: For those using nVidia cards and having performance issues in KDE4

2008-09-03T07:42:36Z

On Wed, Sep 3, 2008 at 3:53 PM, Cassiano Leal <cassianoleal@...> wrote:

> I agree that the KDE wiki is also a good place, but I'm not sure why not
> Debian's too, as it does apply to Debian..

Of course this information could be also added to Debian wiki, but
(IMHO) maintaining duplicated (and eventually desynchronized) stuff is
not a good idea.

Anyway, you can register yourself at wiki.debian.org and create a new
page. If these tips solves my nvidia+kde4 issues I promise to tell my
experience there :)

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Re: KDE 4.1: two nasty bugs

2008-09-03T04:54:53Z

Ramon Antonio Parada wrote:

> Kmail thing is some kind of special. I usually use webmail but since I
> configured Kmail it runs in the background every time I use kopete. I
> don't see it in task manager (haven't checked ps) but I know it's checking
> mail as I get error dialogs when it cannot find server. Check this output
> when I run kopete:
>
> Please, send me link if you report a bug.

I noticed that the problem only occurs if I use the kmail tray icon; disabling it makes the problem vanish.

As KDE 4.1.1 is being uploaded, I'll wait to see if the problem is still here before reporting the bug.

Yannick

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夏日洋裝超低價特賣會!!洋裝39元起數百款任你挑選!!

2008-09-03T03:48:21Z

挑戰不可能的任務!!Message subject

夏日風情~美型款洋裝~任你自由放電~!

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Re: For those using nVidia cards and having performance issues in KDE4

2008-09-03T00:59:29Z

On Tue, Sep 2, 2008 at 8:55 PM, Cassiano Leal <cassianoleal@...> wrote:

> Hope it helps! If it does, it could maybe find its way into one of Debian's
> wikis (not sure where, though...)

Since these issues are not exclusive to Debian I guess the KDE wiki
[1] would be a better place.

[1]http://techbase.kde.org/User:Lemma/GPU-Performance

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Re: KDE4 composite kwin + Intel GPU

2008-09-02T23:44:40Z

On 2008-09-02, Jan Krajicek <j.krajicek@...> wrote:

> Is there someone here using KDE 4 with composite effects on an Intel GPU?
> If so, which AccelMethod (configured in xorg.conf in the "Device" section)
> are you using, "EXA" (the default) or "XAA"?
>
> I tried the KDE 4 backported packages for Lenny and I'm having some issues
> with composite effects on this laptop (integrated Intel GPU), the default
> EXA AccelMethod has terrible performance (even with tweaks
> like "MigrationHeuristic" "greedy" that were suggested somewhere), and
> with XAA (which is obsolete) I can't play any videos with composite
> effects on, as both xine and mplayer crash with BadAlloc errors.
>
> I found some seemingly relevant bugs on various trackers, it's hard to say
> if the problem is in KDE, X, or the intel driver (there are probably
> multiple issues), I'm wondering if someone actually has it working.

I have no problems with using full effects on two machines, one being my
Eeepc 4g.

/Sune

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Re: KDE4 composite kwin + Intel GPU

2008-09-02T22:25:35Z

Am Mittwoch, 3. September 2008 03:53:49 schrieb Christoph Burgmer:
> Am Wednesday, 3. September 2008 schrieb Jan Krajicek:
> > I found some seemingly relevant bugs on various trackers, it's hard to
> > say if the problem is in KDE, X, or the intel driver (there are probably
> > multiple issues), I'm wondering if someone actually has it working.
> KWin, composite, Intel, bad performance are all keywords that match for me,
> see my post on the 2nd of August to this list (6 pm UTC). I for my part
> have given up right now and enjoy KDE4 without animations. Do keep us
> updated though once you find a solution.
I've got no luck with my nvidia card either. With the latest drivers it was
working smooth but there were far too many crashes, especially of KWin or X
(probably the Nvidia driver).

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Re: KDE4 composite kwin + Intel GPU

2008-09-02T18:53:49Z

Am Wednesday, 3. September 2008 schrieb Jan Krajicek:

> Hi,

> Is there someone here using KDE 4 with composite effects on an Intel GPU?

> If so, which AccelMethod (configured in xorg.conf in the "Device" section)

> are you using, "EXA" (the default) or "XAA"?

> I tried the KDE 4 backported packages for Lenny and I'm having some issues

> with composite effects on this laptop (integrated Intel GPU), the default

> EXA AccelMethod has terrible performance (even with tweaks

> like "MigrationHeuristic" "greedy" that were suggested somewhere), and

> with XAA (which is obsolete) I can't play any videos with composite

> effects on, as both xine and mplayer crash with BadAlloc errors.

> I found some seemingly relevant bugs on various trackers, it's hard to say

> if the problem is in KDE, X, or the intel driver (there are probably

> multiple issues), I'm wondering if someone actually has it working.

KWin, composite, Intel, bad performance are all keywords that match for me, see my post on the 2nd of August to this list (6 pm UTC). I for my part have given up right now and enjoy KDE4 without animations. Do keep us updated though once you find a solution.

Chris

Re: [KDE 4.1 backports] yakuake missing

2008-09-02T17:28:34Z

Ana Guerrero wrote:

> On Tue, Sep 02, 2008 at 11:32:17AM -0400, Ben E. Hard wrote:
>> Hi,
>> I'm missing the kde4-version of yakuake in the backports. It is included
>> in experimental and the kde3-version crashes under kde4, so I suggest
>> including it in the lenny backports for kde4.
>>
>
> Backports for 4.1 are meant only for kde4 official packages, so it is not
> exaclty missing :)

Ok, then it is not missing, but I miss it :-) Still that policy will probably become if not a problem, then at least something uncomfortable: with each new application being ported to kde4 and not being included in lenny, one would have to get it from experimental. But I'm not saying you should do all that work of packing all kde4-programms. Would they be included in the normal backports? If not, the idea of using lenny + kde4 will always be a mix of kde3 + 4 with some programs not working or not integrating completely in kde4.

> I will look when backporting 4.1.1 to include it, but i can not promise it
> (it is not a big job, but if i include yakuake, then i can be asked for
> include more and more programs...). In the case of yakuake, i am the
> maintainer and know the situation pretty well, not in the case of another
> kde4 apps. We'll see :)
>
> OTOH, if you grab package from experimental, it will work perfeclty, and
> it won't push any depend.
I did that, works perfectly.
>
Thanks. Ben

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Re: KDE4 composite kwin + Intel GPU

2008-09-02T16:14:45Z

On Tuesday 02 September 2008 22:53:49 Christoph Burgmer wrote:
[snip]
> > I found some seemingly relevant bugs on various trackers, it's hard to
> > say if the problem is in KDE, X, or the intel driver (there are probably
> > multiple issues), I'm wondering if someone actually has it working.
>
> KWin, composite, Intel, bad performance are all keywords that match for me,
> see my post on the 2nd of August to this list (6 pm UTC). I for my part
> have given up right now and enjoy KDE4 without animations. Do keep us
> updated though once you find a solution.

I have just bought a mother with an ATI Radeon RS690. With the open radeonhd
drivers there is almost no OpenGL acceleration, and no effects (except I am
missing something...)

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* Depende el tipo de accion mas comun
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KDE4 composite kwin + Intel GPU

2008-09-02T14:14:09Z

Hi,

Is there someone here using KDE 4 with composite effects on an Intel GPU?
If so, which AccelMethod (configured in xorg.conf in the "Device" section)
are you using, "EXA" (the default) or "XAA"?

I tried the KDE 4 backported packages for Lenny and I'm having some issues
with composite effects on this laptop (integrated Intel GPU), the default
EXA AccelMethod has terrible performance (even with tweaks
like "MigrationHeuristic" "greedy" that were suggested somewhere), and
with XAA (which is obsolete) I can't play any videos with composite
effects on, as both xine and mplayer crash with BadAlloc errors.

I found some seemingly relevant bugs on various trackers, it's hard to say
if the problem is in KDE, X, or the intel driver (there are probably
multiple issues), I'm wondering if someone actually has it working.

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For those using nVidia cards and having performance issues in KDE4

2008-09-02T11:55:26Z

Hi list,

In case some of you are experiencing performance issues in KDE4 with nVidia's GPUs, here's a forum thread I bumped on:

http://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/linux-desktop-74/a-basic-instruction-set-for-nvidia-chipsets-and-kde-4-666423/

Hope it helps! If it does, it could maybe find its way into one of Debian's wikis (not sure where, though...)

Cheers,
Cassiano Leal

Re: [ANN] KDE 4.1 backported packages for Lenny

2008-09-02T10:54:54Z

On Tue, Sep 02, 2008 at 12:58:00AM +0200, Adrian Friedli wrote:
> Hi,
>
> On Thursday 21. August 2008 13.48.18 Ana Guerrero wrote:
> > And the important link:
> > http://kde4.debian.net/
>
> Why is the archive not signed? Will it be, when Lenny is released?

When setting up the repository for the backports, i did not feel like signing
packages were very important and it was quicker for me just ignore this.
In the case of signing the packages, they would be signed with my *personal*
key or a extra key i would create for this. Never an official key of the
debian archive.

Ana

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Re: [KDE 4.1 backports] yakuake missing

2008-09-02T10:47:52Z

On Tue, Sep 02, 2008 at 11:32:17AM -0400, Ben E. Hard wrote:
> Hi,
> I'm missing the kde4-version of yakuake in the backports. It is included in experimental and the kde3-version crashes under kde4, so I suggest including it in the lenny backports for kde4.
>

Backports for 4.1 are meant only for kde4 official packages, so it is not
exaclty missing :)

I will look when backporting 4.1.1 to include it, but i can not promise it (it
is not a big job, but if i include yakuake, then i can be asked for include
more and more programs...). In the case of yakuake, i am the maintainer and
know the situation pretty well, not in the case of another kde4 apps.
We'll see :)

OTOH, if you grab package from experimental, it will work perfeclty, and it
won't push any depend.

Ana

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Re: [KDE 4.1 backports] yakuake missing

2008-09-02T09:06:26Z

Le mardi 02 septembre 2008 à 17:32, Ben E. Hard a écrit :
> Hi,
> I'm missing the kde4-version of yakuake in the backports. It is included in
> experimental and the kde3-version crashes under kde4, so I suggest
> including it in the lenny backports for kde4.
>
> Ben

I confirm that Yakuake for KDE 3.5 crashes on KDE 4.1. It should be cool to
have the KDE 4 version on the KDE 4.1.x backports for Lenny repository.

--
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[KDE 4.1 backports] yakuake missing

2008-09-02T08:32:17Z

Hi,
I'm missing the kde4-version of yakuake in the backports. It is included in experimental and the kde3-version crashes under kde4, so I suggest including it in the lenny backports for kde4.

Ben

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Nabble - Debian KDE

Re: [KDE 4.1 backports] yakuake missing

Re: [KDE 4.1 backports] yakuake missing

Re: [KDE 4.1 backports] yakuake missing

Re: [KDE 4.1 backports] yakuake missing

Re: [KDE 4.1 backports] yakuake missing

Re: [KDE 4.1 backports] yakuake missing

Re: [KDE 4.1 backports] yakuake missing

Re: [KDE 4.1 backports] yakuake missing

Re: [KDE 4.1 backports] yakuake missing

Re: KDE4 composite kwin + Intel GPU

Re: KDE4 composite kwin + Intel GPU

KDE 4.1 xinerama

Yakuake and locale

Re: KDE4 composite kwin + Intel GPU

Re: KDE4 composite kwin + Intel GPU

Re: KDE4 composite kwin + Intel GPU

Re: KDE4 composite kwin + Intel GPU

Re: [KDE 4.1 backports] yakuake missing

Re: For those using nVidia cards and having performance issues in KDE4

Re: KDE4 composite kwin + Intel GPU

Re: For those using nVidia cards and having performance issues in KDE4

Re: KDE 4.1: two nasty bugs

夏日洋裝超低價特賣會!!洋裝39元起 數百款任你挑選!!

Re: For those using nVidia cards and having performance issues in KDE4

Re: KDE4 composite kwin + Intel GPU

Re: KDE4 composite kwin + Intel GPU

Re: KDE4 composite kwin + Intel GPU

Re: [KDE 4.1 backports] yakuake missing

Re: KDE4 composite kwin + Intel GPU

KDE4 composite kwin + Intel GPU

For those using nVidia cards and having performance issues in KDE4

Re: [ANN] KDE 4.1 backported packages for Lenny

Re: [KDE 4.1 backports] yakuake missing

Re: [KDE 4.1 backports] yakuake missing

[KDE 4.1 backports] yakuake missing

夏日洋裝超低價特賣會!!洋裝39元起數百款任你挑選!!