Nabble - DBA the Barge Association

DAF Filters

2008-10-06T04:22:42Z

The current DAF part number for the 575 filter including the large sealing ring is now 1500861

Andy Soper
Chairman

DBA - The Barge Association
mv Cormorant
Spade Oak Reach
Cookham SL6 9RQ

07000 Barges or 07940598364

'You don't need a barge to join - a dream will do' See www.barges.org

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From forum: DBA the Barge Association - Main List

Red diesel draft business brief

2008-10-06T04:17:04Z

Below is the text of the most recent instructions issued to Marinas and fuel suppliers.

Please note that it always your (the purchasers) responsibilty to declare the percentages intended to be used for propulsion or domestic use.

It will be posted on the HMRC web-site later this month.

Happy to respond to any further queries.

Andy Soper
Chairman

DBA - The Barge Association
mv Cormorant
Spade Oak Reach
Cookham SL6 9RQ

07000 Barges or 07940598364

'You don't need a barge to join - a dream will do' See www.barges.org

Revenue and Customs brief

Energy Products Directive- Expiry of the derogations allowing reduced rate
duty on fuel in private pleasure craft

Purpose of this brief

The purpose of this brief is to inform

• Registered Dealers in Controlled Oils (RDCOs) who supply red diesel
and/or bioblend for use in private pleasure craft
• Users and purchasers of fuel for private pleasure craft
of the changes that are being introduced with effect from 1 November 2008.

Implementation date

The changes will take effect on after 1 November 2008.

Background

The UK held a derogation from the Energy Products Directive (EPD) (2003/96)
which permitted the use of reduced rates of excise duty on fuel used in
private pleasure-craft. This expired on 31 December 2006. The changes that
are being introduced are required in order to comply with European
legislation.

Please note that supplies of rebated fuel to commercial craft are completely
unaffected by these changes and may continue to purchase fuel at the fully
rebated rate.

Private Pleasure Craft

Outline of scheme
It will be illegal from 1 November 2008 for red diesel to be used for
propelling private pleasure craft unless the purchaser of the fuel makes a
declaration to that intent and pays the full rate of duty. Red diesel at the
rebated rate of duty can continue to be used for domestic purposes such as
heating and lighting.
Registered Dealers in Controlled Oils (RDCOs) who make supplies of rebated
fuel to private pleasure craft are responsible for retaining the declaration
made by the customers, for charging the appropriate rate of duty and for
paying the duty collected to HMRC.
The current full rate of duty is 50.35 pence per litre (ppl). The rebated
rate is 9.69 ppl. The additional duty that must be charged to private users
on fuel they intend to use for propulsion is 40.66 ppl.

RDCOs’ responsibilities

If you supply red diesel to private pleasure craft you will be required to
charge the purchaser the full rate of duty on fuel used for propulsion and
pay the duty to HMRC. This is a new requirement for fuel suppliers.

RDCOs are not responsible for ascertaining whether the fuel they sell to an
individual is for propulsion of a private pleasure craft, although, if they
suspect that is the case they should remind the purchaser of their legal
obligation to make a declaration and pay the full rate of duty. The RDCO is
not responsible if the user fails to make a declaration or makes a false
declaration.

Not all RDCOs supply fuel for use by private pleasure craft but if you do,
or may do so in the foreseeable future, you must notify HMRC. A simple
notification form will be made available to RDCOs shortly, along with
instructions for completion and return. RDCOs will receive a new RDCO
certificate showing that you are a supplier of red diesel to private
pleasure craft.

Please note that, as the process of notification and amendment of RDCO
registration details is expected to take some time, not all RDCOs will
receive an amended registration certificate by 1 November. The important
point, however, is that RDCOs who supply fuel to private pleasure craft must
start charging and collecting duty from 1 November, and must keep a record
of the supplies and the duty due (see section – ‘Declarations’ below).

The first return and payment by all registered suppliers will cover the 12
month period from 1 November 2008 to 31 October 2009 and you will have a
further 21 days from the end of this period in which to submit the return
and payment. There will be a new payment return, separate from, and
additional to, your usual RDCO return, showing your RDCO number and on which
you must declare the total amount of duty due, and sign and date it. HMRC
will send you the return in advance of 31 October 2009. If you wish to
submit a return more frequently or change the stagger to coincide with your
usual RDCO return, you will be able to do so after this initial 12 month
period.

Details of the methods of payment, addresses, account number will be
published in a public notice.

RDCOs should note arrangements for supply of fully rebated red diesel to
residential boat owners, explained in the next section. RDCOs are not
responsible for establishing the validity of declarations made under the
arrangements described.

User responsibilities

The responsibility to declare that red diesel purchased will be used to
propel a private pleasure craft lies with the purchaser of that fuel. Use of
fuel without the appropriate declaration renders the person liable to a
civil penalty under the Hydrocarbon Oils Duties Act 1979, as amended by the
Finance Act 2008. The form and manner of the declaration is explained in the
next section.

It is the responsibility of the purchaser to declare the proportion of any
fuel they buy which they intend to use for propulsion. That proportion will
be subject to the full rate of duty and VAT. A declaration is required even
if all of the fuel is intended to be used for propulsion purposes. The
remaining proportion, which is intended for domestic use (heating, lighting
etc) can continue to be supplied at the rebated rate of duty and VAT.

HMRC recognise that the declaration made by the purchaser will be an
estimate but they must make every effort to ensure it is as accurate a
reflection of their usage as possible. Analysis by both the industry and
HMRC suggests that a split of 60% for propulsion and 40% for domestic use
probably reflects most people’s use and it is therefore likely that many
users will declare such an apportionment. This will make it easier for
suppliers (RDCOs) to work out additional duty and VAT. However, where a
purchaser knows that their propulsion use may be more or less than the above
apportionment split or a craft clearly has no domestic use, then they must
declare their actual intended usage.

Users are not required to obtain or retain evidence that they have made a
declaration and paid duty on fuel they purchased for propulsion but doing
will facilitate any checks made by HMRC and make that a quicker and easier
process for all parties.

HMRC have recognised the status of residential boat owners whose primary
residence is their boat. Some of these will be at fixed moorings or move
just a very short distance along the tow path from permanent moorings. If
they live aboard the craft permanently and hold certain documentation, such
as a Houseboat Licence, Residential Mooring Licence, Council Tax Bill in
respect of the mooring, or other peripheral documentation, invoices or bills
which provides proof of permanent residency, they may purchase all their
fuel at the rebated rate (as if they were a commercial vessel). They will
still be required to make and sign a declaration saying that 0% of the fuel
is for propelling purposes. It will be the responsibility of the declarant
to ensure that they hold the requisite documentation should HMRC wish to
check the validity of the declaration made in these circumstances.

Continuous cruisers may not declare 0% under these arrangements, even if
they reside permanently on their craft, they must declare their actual
intended usage for propulsion.

Declarations

At the time of supply, the private purchaser must declare in writing the
amount of fuel being purchased for propulsion and RDCO suppliers are
required to retain this declaration with their record of the transaction and
duty collected.

HMRC is aware accounting methods and systems can vary from
supplier-to-supplier, for example, some may wish to pre-print the
declaration on invoice slips or till receipts.

Therefore, although the declaration must be in the following form of words,
it is for individual RDCOs to decide how to incorporate this into their
existing accounting procedures and records:

'I declare that [ ] % of the fuel purchased will be used for propelling a
private pleasure craft’.

The declaration must be signed and dated by the purchaser, and the RDCO
supplier must ensure that the purchaser’s name and address is noted in his
normal records.

This process may be simplified where RDCOs make supplies to regular or
account customers and removes the need to make a declaration every time they
purchase fuel.
Regular customers may make a single declaration (same format as above)
covering all of their transactions with a particular RDCO for up to a year,
provided the percentage declared is an accurate reflection of their intended
usage for propulsion over the period concerned and there is a clear audit
trail in the supplier’s records between the declaration and each individual
purchase made by the customer in that period. The declaration must be
renewed when the percentage usage changes, there is a change of name and
address, or at least once a year (even if the material details remain
valid).

Charging Duty and VAT

The following is a guide to the calculation of Duty and VAT under the new
arrangements for illustration only, the proportion split between propulsion
and domestic usage will vary.

VAT is charged at the full rate (17.5%) on fuel for propulsion and the
reduced rate (5%) on fuel for domestic use.

This example assumes a 60% (propulsion) and 40% (domestic) split for a
purchase of 100 litres of red diesel (the price of diesel is assumed to be
0.50ppl):

Propulsion calculation (i.e. 60%)

60 litres @ 0.50ppl = £30.00
60 litres @ 0.5035p = £30.21 (duty)
VAT @ 17.5% =£10.53

Propulsion Total =£70.74

Domestic calculation (i.e. 40%)

40 litres @ 0.50ppl = £20.00
40 litres @ 0.969p = £ 3.87 (duty)
VAT @ 5% = £ 1.19

Domestic Total = £25.06

Transaction Total = £95.80

Definition of Private Pleasure Craft

The definition of 'private pleasure craft' is as in the Energy Products
Directive:

‘private pleasure craft shall mean any craft used by its owner or the
natural or legal person who enjoys its use either though hire or through any
other means, for other than commercial purposes and in particular other than
for the carriage of passengers or goods or for the supply of services for
consideration or for the purposes of public authorities.’

All forms will be available on the HMRC website www.hmrc.gov.uk or from the
National Advice Service Tel: 0845 010 9000

________________________________

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From forum: DBA the Barge Association - Main List

Re: DBA Sailing - web pages

2008-10-05T10:53:45Z

Thanks very much Jane for reviving the sailing group and editing the sailing
events page I'm sure everyone really appreciates it.

If anyone would like to edit the pages I can set them up to do so, it only
requires basic computer skills (and time), please contact Ian directly or
fill in our 'volunteer here' page at
http://www.barges.org/main.php?section=2033

David Beaumont
IT Director
DBA The Barge Association
www.barges.org

> -----Original Message-----
> From: dbasailing-bounces@...
> [mailto:dbasailing-bounces@...] On Behalf Of Jane Griffin
> Sent: 05 October 2008 18:29
> To: dbasailing@...
> Cc: ian.ferguson@...; andy.soper@...; David Beaumont
> Subject: [Dbasailing] DBA Sailing - web pages
>
> Hello all, I am sorry to inform you that I am no longer able
> to keep the
> Sailing Barges Interest Group web pages up to date. As you
> know I live
> on a barge in France and my internet connection is often
> intermittent,
> so am finding it a bit difficult to keep up with the Group's
> activities
> and come to the meetings.
>
> I have updated the pages with the details of the meeting on
> 1st November
> at Maldon but unfortunately that will have to be my last
> edit. Hopefully
> there will be another volunteer to keep the pages looking
> smashing! I
> am sure that Ian Ferguson (Board Director for our Group)
> would love to
> hear from you!
>
> Kind Regards
>
> Jane Griffin
>
> -------------------------------------------------
> Visit http://www.barges.org for info, events, to buy and sell
> barges or equipment.
> ------------------------------------------------------
> You can manage your list subscription yourself, including
> unsubscribing and retrieving lost passwords at
> http://www.barges.org/newsgroups

From forum: DBA sailing

Thomas 50 & Katherine Designs

2008-10-05T10:53:02Z

Hi

Is anyone building, built or having built a Thomas 50 or Katherine by Nick Branson.

I am considering one of his kits for home build as I am a welder by trade.

I am looking to make contact with anyone that has experiences of these designs.

Cheers

Kevin

BTW sorry for posting twice, the first one was in the wrong area

From forum: DBA the Barge Association - Main List

Thomas 50 & Katherine Designs

2008-10-05T10:50:06Z

From forum: DBA Social list

DBA Sailing - web pages

2008-10-05T10:28:59Z

Hello all, I am sorry to inform you that I am no longer able to keep the
Sailing Barges Interest Group web pages up to date. As you know I live
on a barge in France and my internet connection is often intermittent,
so am finding it a bit difficult to keep up with the Group's activities
and come to the meetings.

I have updated the pages with the details of the meeting on 1st November
at Maldon but unfortunately that will have to be my last edit. Hopefully
there will be another volunteer to keep the pages looking smashing! I
am sure that Ian Ferguson (Board Director for our Group) would love to
hear from you!

Kind Regards

Jane Griffin

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From forum: DBA sailing

Re: Hydraulic steering conversion

2008-10-05T08:35:41Z

Or loosen one of the hydraulic connections to release the hydraulic lock

Andy Soper
Chairman

DBA - The Barge Association
mv Cormorant
Spade Oak Reach
Cookham SL6 9RQ

07000 Barges or 07940598364

'You don't need a barge to join - a dream will do' See www.barges.org

----- Original Message ----
From: "mark.hughes60@..." <mark.hughes60@...>
To: DBAMAIN@...
Sent: Friday, 3 October, 2008 3:54:18 AM
Subject: Re: DBAm: Hydraulic steering conversion

A good reason for having a balanced cylinder is the ability to fit a bypass
valve that can be operated if using an emergency tiller. Not possible
with an unbalanced cylinder. With an unbalanced cylinder the ram would have
to be detached from tiller arm to employ another method of steering.

Regards

Mark

> ----- Original Message -----
> From: al madorcha
> Sent: 10/02/08 11:29 am
> To: dbamain@...
> Subject: Re: DBAm: Hydraulic steering conversion
>
>
>
>
>
> Al, thanks for the spreadsheet, I'll have a play around with some
> figures.
> What sort of equipment did you use?
>
>
> Back on the subject of hydraulic systems, are there any thoughts or
> experiences on the merits of balanced vs, unbalanced cylinders?
>
>
>
> we made the spreadsheet partly because i picked up an old dual piston and
> pump system off a 51m kempenaar, from our friendly ship breaker in
> holland,
> i forget exactly but each unbalanced piston can push 4 tonnes and pull
> marginally less at the pressures created by a steering pump (more like 50
> tonnes in a high pressure system). in a dual piston system it is
> effectively balanced, but your lock is limited, and as 4 tonnes was
> enough
> for us i chose to use a single unbalanced piston for greater lock. which
> yes
> means we have 14 turns to port and 15 or so turns to starboard, which
> navigating from deepest begium to the thames was never once a problem.
>
> once we knew our desired piston size, instead of using the 3000w at 24v
> tank
> pump ( save that for the car crane) i got a M+S hydrulics steer pump and
> 15l
> header tank, that would give 7-8 turns but for us it was a bit too much
> hard
> work, and as we already had a short small chain from wheel shaft to pump
> shaft ( had to be done as most pump shafts cannot take any axial forces
> directly) it just meant a larger gear on the pump. this also leaves us
> open
> to use the smaller gear again in future when we get a hydraulic pto on
> the
> main engine to help pressurise the system and act as power assisted.
>
> hope that gives you an idea of how it can be done, and if possible get a
> balanced piston, but i wouldnt worry too much personaly.
>
> regards al
> --
> View this message in context:
> http://www.nabble.com/Hydraulic-steering-conversion-tp19726812s25109p19776796.html
> Sent from the DBA the Barge Association - Main List mailing list archive
> at Nabble.com.
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------
> Visit http://www.barges.org for info, events, to buy and sell barges or
> equipment. ------------------------------------------------------
> You can manage your records yourself, including unsubscribing and
> retrieving lost passwords at http://www.barges.org/newsgroups#maint
>

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From forum: DBA the Barge Association - Main List

Re: Pipework

2008-10-04T08:20:21Z

"Julian Tether" <pargebarge@...> wrote in message
news:02x$7qAaVm5IFwW+@......
> In message <mailman.195.1222971265.11154.dbamain@...>, Mike
> & Krystyna Wooding <mikeandkrystyna@...> writes
>>I fitted a manual changeover valve into the cistern supply, so as to
>>allow me to switch back to fresh water filling if/as and when,
>>necessary.
> Just one thought, yes I know its after the fact, perhaps you should fit
> a one way valve in the freshwater feed just to prevent any possible back
> flow from the river water if the valve is not fully changed over.
>

Sorry J, should have said I had already done that on the freshwater input to
the changeover valve

Mike

--

Mike and Krystyna Wooding
db Janna http://www.janna.org.uk
nb Draco

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From forum: DBA the Barge Association - Main List

Re: rowing buoys

2008-10-04T05:19:09Z

Sorry I wasn't very clear there, I meant coachless coxless boats.

David

> -----Original Message-----
> From: dbamain-bounces@...
> [mailto:dbamain-bounces@...] On Behalf Of David Beaumont
> Sent: 04 October 2008 12:28
> To: DBAMAIN@...
> Subject: Re: DBAm: rowing buoys
>
> Edward, now you mention it I have noticed a difference in
> rowers between the
> tidal and non tidal Thames. Here the horn is also invaluable
> but it is
> almost always the coxless 4s and 8s that are a problem - they
> are very fast
> and don't often look behind (i.e. where they are going).
>
> Bill, no doubt they would quote COLREG 5 at me if there was
> an incident.
>
> David

From forum: DBA the Barge Association - Main List

October Photo News

2008-10-04T04:30:32Z

October Photo News is now on the Web
http://www.barges.org/main.php?section=1974

I would appreciate some more photos of barges, especially if you have some
of barges passing buy, on the move. Whether you know the barge or whether
they are members is not important. Even if you only send one or two photos
it would be appreciated. Please send your photos to ian.petchey@...
Sometime I believe some emails with large files do not get through to me. I
always acknowledge receipt of any photos received.

Many Thanks
Ian Petchey

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From forum: DBA the Barge Association - Main List

Re: Air vents

2008-10-04T04:30:27Z

Eddie????????? Try Speck Pumps Uk Ltd???????? Speak to Neil on 01494 523203? He was very helpful

-----Original Message-----
From: Eddie J <edward@...>
To: DBAMAIN@...
Sent: Fri, 3 Oct 2008 2:56 pm
Subject: Re: DBAm: Air vents

Hi John, I checked my filters and they are dry, the pipes that exit through
the side of the boat are an upside down U configuration so no water ingress
possible there, I find it all a bit of a mystery I must admit.
I also have a hydrophore pump where the motor sometimes sticks on and I have
to unplug from the main supply to stop it running, are these servicable
items or does it mean new kit, at the moment I can find no one that deals
with hydrophores.

Eddie J

----- Original Message -----
From: "subs" <subs@...>
To: <DBAMAIN@...>
Sent: Friday, October 03, 2008 9:59 AM
Subject: Re: DBAm: Air vents

> -----Original Message-----
> I seem to be having a problem with pump out at the moment.........
>
> This sounds similar to a problem I have had with a newly installed grey
> water tank. The installers vented the tank through an activated carbon
> filter (there own design - not a proprietary product) to a vent on the
> outside wall of the saloon. They did not fit a weather cowl over the vent
> with the result that the activated carbon got very wet and became
> practically impervious to the passage of air (out when the tank fills or
> in
> when it is pumped out). The problem was most noticeable on pumpout as the
> pump moves about 500L of 'water' in 20 minutes.
>
> I solved the problem by extracting the carbon and drying it out in a low
> heat oven (it seems to have retained its smell deadening properties) and
> fitting a weather cowl.
>
> Hope this helps
>
> John Abram
> MV Ella
>
>
>
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------
> Visit http://www.barges.org for info, events, to buy and sell barges or
> equipment. ------------------------------------------------------
> You can manage your records yourself, including unsubscribing and
> retrieving lost passwords at http://www.barges.org/newsgroups#maint

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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21:35

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equipment. ------------------------------------------------------
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lost passwords at http://www.barges.org/newsgroups#maint

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From forum: DBA the Barge Association - Main List

Re: rowing buoys

2008-10-04T04:29:20Z

Totally agree,
have had this happen to me at Henley just prior to regatta week amongst many other occassions and locations.
Rowers and coaches always appear to be in a world of their own whenever I encounter them and it's pointless giving sound signals because they don't know what they mean.
I'd be very interested to know if any training is given on ''rules of the road'' because it appears as if there isn't.
The only rule they seem to be aware of is keeping to the right but it seems to only apply to everyone else.
Don't get me wrong I like to see rowers on the river, it's a great tradition, but the safety aspect of their training is sorely lacking.

Keith.

----- Original Message ----
From: Edward Burrell <edward.burrell@...>
To: DBAMAIN@...
Sent: Saturday, 4 October, 2008 8:46:24
Subject: Re: DBAm: rowing buoys

We have had two near-serious incidents here on the non tidal river. One
at Thames Ditton, the other at Kingston. Both of them involved young
teenagers training in eight's who turned across the river just as we
were approaching. In both cases the supervising coaches in launches were
completely unaware of our presence - until the horn sounded. Rowing
coaches need some serious instruction on interaction with barges - and
the kids need better protection!. Turning across the bow of a barge is
not wise - and yes, as a certain book says, we were going slowly!
Edward
'A Guide to Motor Barge Handling'

nick hughes wrote:

> Well done Bill, good to see some common sense on the page,
> I have seen far more dubious manoeuvres with so called Barge Skippers that concern me ..
> as opposed to rowers/ buoyage.
>
> Nick Hughes
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get all your favourite content with the slick new MSN Toolbar - FREE
> http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/111354027/direct/01/
> -------------------------------------------------
> Visit http://www.barges.org for info, events, to buy and sell barges or equipment. ------------------------------------------------------
> You can manage your records yourself, including unsubscribing and retrieving lost passwords at http://www.barges.org/newsgroups#maint
>
>

From forum: DBA the Barge Association - Main List

Re: rowing buoys

2008-10-04T04:27:39Z

Edward, now you mention it I have noticed a difference in rowers between the
tidal and non tidal Thames. Here the horn is also invaluable but it is
almost always the coxless 4s and 8s that are a problem - they are very fast
and don't often look behind (i.e. where they are going).

Bill, no doubt they would quote COLREG 5 at me if there was an incident.

David

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Edward Burrell
> Sent: 04 October 2008 08:46
> To: DBAMAIN@...
> Subject: Re: DBAm: rowing buoys
>
> We have had two near-serious incidents here on the non tidal
> river. One
> at Thames Ditton, the other at Kingston. Both of them involved young
> teenagers training in eight's who turned across the river just as we
> were approaching. In both cases the supervising coaches in
> launches were
> completely unaware of our presence - until the horn sounded. Rowing
> coaches need some serious instruction on interaction with
> barges - and
> the kids need better protection!. Turning across the bow of a
> barge is
> not wise - and yes, as a certain book says, we were going slowly!
> Edward
> 'A Guide to Motor Barge Handling'
>
> nick hughes wrote:
> > Well done Bill, good to see some common sense on the page,
> > I have seen far more dubious manoeuvres with so called
> Barge Skippers that concern me ..
> > as opposed to rowers/ buoyage.
> >
> > Nick Hughes
>

From forum: DBA the Barge Association - Main List

Re: Meetbrief

2008-10-04T03:50:42Z

A 'meetbrief' is required only for professional barges carrying cargo.
Hence, the meetbrief will indicate the load, load lines, number of required
crew, etc - see also http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meetbrief

When building my replica (a true replica built to the stability of a cargo
barge) I double checked with the Kadaster Groningen if I needed a
'meetbrief', and they gave me the answer just as above.

Rgds, Marina
MS Vandoor

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From forum: DBA the Barge Association - Main List

Re: Meetbrief

2008-10-04T03:40:27Z

A 'meetbrief' is required only for professional barges carrying cargo.
Hence, the meetbrief will indicate the load, load lines, number of required
crew, etc - see also http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meetbrief

When building my replica (a true replica built to the stability of a cargo
barge) I double checked with the Kadaster Groningen if I needed a
'meetbrief', and they gave me the answer just as above.

Rgds, Marina
MS Vandoor

------------------------------------------------------
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From forum: DBA Navigation List

THAMES GATHERING - OCT 25th.

2008-10-04T03:11:11Z

This is a reminder that the last gathering of the year takes place at
The Anglers, Walton on Thames on Saturday 25th October.
This has proved a very popular event. Last year we had more people than
expected and only just squeezed everyone into the restaurant upstairs.
In order to avoid disappointment I would like to give the pub some idea
of numbers.
Please could you let me know asap, either way, whether you hope to or
definitely cannot attend. This will give me some loose idea of what to
expect.
thanks
Edward.

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From forum: DBA the Barge Association - Main List

Re: rowing buoys

2008-10-04T00:46:24Z

We have had two near-serious incidents here on the non tidal river. One
at Thames Ditton, the other at Kingston. Both of them involved young
teenagers training in eight's who turned across the river just as we
were approaching. In both cases the supervising coaches in launches were
completely unaware of our presence - until the horn sounded. Rowing
coaches need some serious instruction on interaction with barges - and
the kids need better protection!. Turning across the bow of a barge is
not wise - and yes, as a certain book says, we were going slowly!
Edward
'A Guide to Motor Barge Handling'

nick hughes wrote:

From forum: DBA the Barge Association - Main List

Re: New build design

2008-10-03T22:27:17Z

Thank you. Dave Millings
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roger Lorenz" <rog.lorenz@...>
To: <DBAMAIN@...>
Sent: Monday, September 29, 2008 6:36 PM
Subject: Re: DBAm: New build design

> As the Owner of the Duker PARBELLA and part owner of the L & L short
> boat SEVERN I would be quite happy to let someone come and take
> the lines if that was what was wanted - and then scale appropriately
> perhaps ? We built a number of short boat look alikes in the 80's to
> a range
> of beams Inc. one , ANNA, to narrow beam . As real British barges
> they do have something different to the more numerous Dutch barges.
>
> Regards,
>
> Roger Lorenz
> On 29 Sep 2008, at 12:22, Julian wrote:
>
>> Before Parglena was built the owner went over the original boat
>> (Parbella)
>> with a tape measure and took loads of photos and then presented
>> himself to
>> the builder (Tayberg) with a set of drawings and the photos. There
>> was no
>> design as such, The builder then built the boat and it is a very
>> good copy
>> of Parbella although some 15ft shorter.
>> You could do the same with a short boat.
>>
>> "Dave Millings" <dave.millings@...> wrote in message
>> news:mailman.132.1222669660.11154.dbamain@......
>> Hi, Im looking to have some boat plans drawn. I would like
>> something on the
>> lines of a L+L short boat 60ft by 12ft with a nice hull shape and
>> big rudder
>> and tiller, no wheelhouse. Also the Tjalk shapes would be good.
>> Trying to
>> keep things very simple. I tried one of the big designers but he
>> didnt come
>> back to me.
>> If I go round the builders I would prefer to have some detailed
>> drawings.
>>
>> Thanks Dave Millings
>>
>>
>> -------------------------------------------------
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>> barges or equipment.
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>
>
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From forum: DBA the Barge Association - Main List

Re: Replacing an Eberspacher heater

2008-10-03T22:15:42Z

I have posted the mobile of guy who repairs Webasto and Eberspacher. the
fuel must be as clean as possible. When mine "went" a short time after I had
just had it repaired i fixed it myself. They normally coke up. You can strip
it down yourself and clean/replace the burner. just take your time and take
plenty of photos so you know how to put it together again. There is a firm
called Butler Technik (on the net) who will supply all the parts you need.
you can also download the complete repair manual (for Webasto) off the net.
Mine (webasto) is still ok 18 months later. Put an in-line fuel filter in.
Dave Millings
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike & Krystyna Wooding" <mikeandkrystyna@...>
To: <DBAMAIN@...>
Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 8:52 PM
Subject: Re: DBAm: Replacing an Eberspacher heater

----- Original Message -----
From: "John Wheatcroft" <john.wheatcroft@...>
To: "DBA Main List" <dbamain@...>
Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 1:20 PM
Subject: DBAm: Replacing an Eberspacher heater

My Eberspacher hydronic 10 heater has yet again given up, the third time in
five years and 2,700 hours. The quote for the repair is this time between
£700 and £1,000. It is therefore probably beyond economic repair.

I am looking at replacing it with either a Mikuni or a Webasto which both
look as though they will fit in the space. Has anyone done such a
replacement and can give me any advice on the difficulties I might have such
as layout of pipe runs and mountings. Also advice on the relative
reliability of these heaters would be welcome.

I replaced a Mikuni with a Webasto on our narrow boat, slight rearrangement
of the water pipes, otherwise no problem. The Webasto has been in service
on Draco, which we used as residential for 4 years until early this year and
the heater ran for app 5 hours minimum a day in two sessions, and the
Webasto is still going strong

Mike

One of the problems with the Eberspacher is that when it gives up it just
does not start and there appears to be no way to diagnose the fault, other
than taking it out a retuning it to a dealer. Are the Mikuni or the
Webasto any better in this respect?

Never had a problem so I cannot answer

Mike

Mike and Krystyna Wooding
db Janna http://www.janna.org.uk
nb Draco

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From forum: DBA the Barge Association - Main List

rowing buoys

2008-10-03T15:22:17Z

Well done Bill, good to see some common sense on the page,
I have seen far more dubious manoeuvres with so called Barge Skippers that concern me ..
as opposed to rowers/ buoyage.

Nick Hughes

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From forum: DBA the Barge Association - Main List

Re: Rowing buoys

2008-10-03T14:13:24Z

David,

I have passed these buoys on a few occasions and have had no difficulty with
them or with any rowers.

The buoys and the antics of the rowers are covered in the BW publications
'London Tideway Handbook 1' and 'London Tideway Handbook 2'. Essential
reading for anyone travelling below Teddington Lock and above Tower Bridge.
So their location and use should not be a problem to any one who has
prepared for the journey.

I would hope that the DBA would be supportive of all initiatives that
improve enjoyment the safety of river users. If repositioned lights and
chains have not met with any success perhaps reflective red bands round the
buoys would be a useful supplement to the lights.

Whilst on the subject of the COLREGs, rule 5 requires a good lookout to be
kept at all times. I would suggest that the DBA should distance itself from
any debate that suggests its members are travelling whilst unable to 'see'
buoys or any other hazards on the river.

Regards

Bill Cozens

-----Original Message-----
From: dbamain-bounces@...
[mailto:dbamain-bounces@...] On Behalf Of David Beaumont
Sent: 02 October 2008 13:15
To: DBAMAIN@...
Subject: DBAm: Rowing buoys

If anyone has had trouble with the 20 small plastic rowing buoys on the
tidal Thames distributed between Brentford and Fulham (e.g. them being
invisible at night and/or being in the middle of the river) do let me know.
I am currently talking to the Port of London Authority about them on behalf
of DBA. The PLA and rowers think they are wonderful.

Thanks

David

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From forum: DBA the Barge Association - Main List

Re: Pipework

2008-10-03T11:32:58Z

In message <mailman.195.1222971265.11154.dbamain@...>, Mike
& Krystyna Wooding <mikeandkrystyna@...> writes
>I fitted a manual changeover valve into the cistern supply, so as to
>allow me to switch back to fresh water filling if/as and when,
>necessary.
Just one thought, yes I know its after the fact, perhaps you should fit
a one way valve in the freshwater feed just to prevent any possible back
flow from the river water if the valve is not fully changed over.

--

Julian Tether
Barge Parglena
e-mail: julian@...

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From forum: DBA the Barge Association - Main List

Re: Fighting the BW sizism proposal

2008-10-03T09:31:55Z

On Friday, October 3, 2008, at 4:58:36 PM, Adrian wrote:

A> BW's annual meeting is next week. There is an opportunity publicly to
A> question the BW brass.

A> Will DBA have a representative there? Will he ask a question about
A> sizism?

Gracious. How the days go by. I hadn't realised it was already Prime
Minister's Question Time, with the weekly interrogation by the Leader
of HM Opposition.

bjg

--
Brian J Goggin, tug-barge Knocknagow
Stradbally North, Castleconnell, Co Limerick, Ireland
E bjg@..., T/F +353-61-377057

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From forum: DBA the Barge Association - Main List

Re: Fighting the BW sizism proposal

2008-10-03T08:58:36Z

BW's annual meeting is next week. There is an opportunity publicly to
question the BW brass.

Will DBA have a representative there? Will he ask a question about
sizism?

Adrian
.
Adrian Stott
Tel. UK (0)7956-299966
or (0)208-123-3557 (Skype)
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From forum: DBA the Barge Association - Main List

Re: Hydraulic steering conversion

2008-10-03T08:34:38Z

Talk to this man
Peter Morgan

Hamilton Jet UK Ltd.

email: peter@...

They supply ASAP and his knowledge is the best there is

"flatplane8" <simonsparrowuk@...> wrote in message
news:mailman.210.1223044949.11154.dbamain@......

Thanks all for the help and advice, sounds like balanced is best, but
unbalanced isn't the end of the world. I've got a couple of quotes back from
ASAP using Vetus gear for around £3k including DBA discount. They're getting
me prices on using Kobelt gear, as others on here have used I think.

I'm going to do a bit more digging around using some of Als information, but
at this sort of cost we may well be better off concentrating on spending
more in more critical areas and just use the chain system for a few years.
Looking at it all, it doesn't seem like a huge task to fit hydraulic
steering later on.

al madorcha wrote:

>
>
>
> Mark Hughes-3 wrote:
>>
>> A good reason for having a balanced cylinder is the ability to fit a
>> bypass
>> valve that can be operated if using an emergency tiller. Not possible
>> with an unbalanced cylinder. With an unbalanced cylinder the ram would
>> have
>> to be detached from tiller arm to employ another method of steering.
>>
>> Regards
>>
>> Mark
>>
>>
>
> i'm not sure if i am thinking straight, but i think it would still be
> possible to fit a bypass valve on unbalanced pistons, its just limited in
> extension from the smaller volume side not accomodating all the oil from
> the larger side, but should still give enough movement for emergency.
> which i believe is a minimum of 35deg.
>
> we have 2 removable pins through the eyes of the piston ends to free the
> rudder for emergency steering, which is a good idea anyway for repair
> access and incase its the actual piston thats siezed.
>
> regards al
>
>

--
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Nabble.com.

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From forum: DBA the Barge Association - Main List

Re: Air vents

2008-10-03T08:29:13Z

-----Original Message-----
Hi John, I checked my filters ......

Eddie, sorry I think this now beyond my technical abilities. I can only
assume that if the vent is not blocked there must be a problem on the pump
line.

As for the Hydrofor mine uses a Flojet diaphragm pump for which all the
specs and spares data is available via their web site.

Happy trouble shooting

John Abram
MV Ella

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From forum: DBA the Barge Association - Main List

Re: Hydraulic steering conversion

2008-10-03T07:42:20Z

Thanks all for the help and advice, sounds like balanced is best, but unbalanced isn't the end of the world. I've got a couple of quotes back from ASAP using Vetus gear for around £3k including DBA discount. They're getting me prices on using Kobelt gear, as others on here have used I think.

I'm going to do a bit more digging around using some of Als information, but at this sort of cost we may well be better off concentrating on spending more in more critical areas and just use the chain system for a few years. Looking at it all, it doesn't seem like a huge task to fit hydraulic steering later on.

al madorcha wrote:

Mark Hughes-3 wrote:

A good reason for having a balanced cylinder is the ability to fit a bypass
valve that can be operated if using an emergency tiller. Not possible
with an unbalanced cylinder. With an unbalanced cylinder the ram would have
to be detached from tiller arm to employ another method of steering.

Regards

Mark

i'm not sure if i am thinking straight, but i think it would still be possible to fit a bypass valve on unbalanced pistons, its just limited in extension from the smaller volume side not accomodating all the oil from the larger side, but should still give enough movement for emergency. which i believe is a minimum of 35deg.

we have 2 removable pins through the eyes of the piston ends to free the rudder for emergency steering, which is a good idea anyway for repair access and incase its the actual piston thats siezed.

regards al

From forum: DBA the Barge Association - Main List

Re: Air vents

2008-10-03T06:56:09Z

Hi John, I checked my filters and they are dry, the pipes that exit through
the side of the boat are an upside down U configuration so no water ingress
possible there, I find it all a bit of a mystery I must admit.
I also have a hydrophore pump where the motor sometimes sticks on and I have
to unplug from the main supply to stop it running, are these servicable
items or does it mean new kit, at the moment I can find no one that deals
with hydrophores.

Eddie J

----- Original Message -----
From: "subs" <subs@...>
To: <DBAMAIN@...>
Sent: Friday, October 03, 2008 9:59 AM
Subject: Re: DBAm: Air vents

From forum: DBA the Barge Association - Main List

Re: Rowing buoys

2008-10-03T06:21:12Z

We came up a few days ago. One buoy was certainly closer to centre than 1/10
across.
When we went down I was very reluctant to pass it to starboard because it
was too far over. I think it has dragged.

> I do find the Brentford to Kew bridge buoys seem to be in the
> middle of the river, apparently this is an illusion I'm told
> they only take up 1/10th of the width.

Kind Regards
Ian Petchey
Elessina

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From forum: DBA the Barge Association - Main List

Re: Rowing buoys

2008-10-03T06:20:28Z

Mmmmm.....it's all a great adventure! Bon rowage.
Edward.

David Beaumont wrote:

>> -----Original Message-----
>> Edward Burrell
>> Most barges transiting the river will be going with the flow
>> so rowers
>> working against the tide will be separated.
>
> That's very true (assuming they are following their code). There are though
> 4 defined crossing zones in their code where the rowers 'working the stream'
> and breaching COLREGs will switch in front of or behind you to the correct
> side, or vice versa. These are at Syon, Stag Brewery, Chiswick Steps and
> Putney Pier.
>
> To sum it up (if you are going with the flow) sometimes rowers will be
> coming at you on your starboard side but inside the buoys and sometimes they
> will be coming at you as per COLREGs on your port side (but also inside the
> buoys). They will also be coming behind you outside the buoys on your port
> side as per COLREGs (yes they do overtake a barge at 6 knots - and tell you
> to slow down!) and sometimes they will be crossing in front of you. You
> should only see (looking forward) a coxless 8 bearing down on you outside
> the buoys if you are punching the tide.
>
>> Also I imagine that, unless you know the river really well,
>> most barges
>> wouldn't travel at night.
>
> Maybe, but as the tide dictates timings we do quite a bit at night. If you
> do go at night bear in mind you will be likely going with the flow so you
> won't see the buoy lights which are also going with the flow.
>
> David
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------
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>
>

From forum: DBA the Barge Association - Main List

Re: Rowing buoys

2008-10-03T06:11:04Z

> -----Original Message-----
> Edward Burrell
> Most barges transiting the river will be going with the flow
> so rowers
> working against the tide will be separated.

That's very true (assuming they are following their code). There are though
4 defined crossing zones in their code where the rowers 'working the stream'
and breaching COLREGs will switch in front of or behind you to the correct
side, or vice versa. These are at Syon, Stag Brewery, Chiswick Steps and
Putney Pier.

To sum it up (if you are going with the flow) sometimes rowers will be
coming at you on your starboard side but inside the buoys and sometimes they
will be coming at you as per COLREGs on your port side (but also inside the
buoys). They will also be coming behind you outside the buoys on your port
side as per COLREGs (yes they do overtake a barge at 6 knots - and tell you
to slow down!) and sometimes they will be crossing in front of you. You
should only see (looking forward) a coxless 8 bearing down on you outside
the buoys if you are punching the tide.

> Also I imagine that, unless you know the river really well,
> most barges
> wouldn't travel at night.

Maybe, but as the tide dictates timings we do quite a bit at night. If you
do go at night bear in mind you will be likely going with the flow so you
won't see the buoy lights which are also going with the flow.

David

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From forum: DBA the Barge Association - Main List

Re: Rowing buoys

2008-10-03T04:50:58Z

Most barges transiting the river will be going with the flow so rowers
working against the tide will be separated. Those going with the flow
aren't so much of a problem.
Also I imagine that, unless you know the river really well, most barges
wouldn't travel at night.
Edward.

David Beaumont wrote:

> I did suggest a light on a stalk. This was dismissed because the rowers
> like to swing their oars over the top of the buoys. The PLA have also
> rejected a ring light round the buoy edge and rejected replacing the first
> metre or so of chain on the buoy with a rod to avoid prop entanglements.
>
> I do find the Brentford to Kew bridge buoys seem to be in the middle of the
> river, apparently this is an illusion I'm told they only take up 1/10th of
> the width. The harbour master offered me a bet on this if anyone wants to
> take it up.
>
> Incidentally the buoys only segregate rowers who are 'working the slack'
> i.e. rowing on the wrong side of the river in breach of COLREGs. Other
> rowers who (quite possibly at the same time) are abiding by COLREGs must be
> outside the buoys, i.e. amongst the rest of us.
>
> Why rowers are exempt from the Convention on the International Regulations
> for Preventing Collisions at Sea (COLREG) on this part of the Thames is an
> ancient mystery which only rowers understand. The buoys were put there to
> allow them to continue to breach COLREGs, not to segregate them, after a
> collision took place in 2001 in Syon Reach involving a motor cruiser, (which
> was proceeding downriver and keeping well to the starboard side of the
> channel) and a coxless four, rowing against the stream according to their
> own rules on the port side of the river, on the inside of the bend.
> http://www.pla.co.uk/pdfs/maritime/Report_220405.pdf
>
> David
>
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Edward Burrell
>> Sent: 03 October 2008 09:29
>> To: DBAMAIN@...
>> Subject: Re: DBAm: Rowing buoys
>>
>> I think these are a good thing. Anything that keeps rowers in their
>> place is helpful. They also serve to mark the deeper
>> navigable channel
>> (on the south side) between Putney and Hammersmith.
>> Lack of visibilty at night is dangerous. If they put the
>> light on top of
>> a short pole it would help.
>> Edward.
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------
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>
>

From forum: DBA the Barge Association - Main List

Re: Rowing buoys

2008-10-03T04:08:17Z

I did suggest a light on a stalk. This was dismissed because the rowers
like to swing their oars over the top of the buoys. The PLA have also
rejected a ring light round the buoy edge and rejected replacing the first
metre or so of chain on the buoy with a rod to avoid prop entanglements.

I do find the Brentford to Kew bridge buoys seem to be in the middle of the
river, apparently this is an illusion I'm told they only take up 1/10th of
the width. The harbour master offered me a bet on this if anyone wants to
take it up.

Incidentally the buoys only segregate rowers who are 'working the slack'
i.e. rowing on the wrong side of the river in breach of COLREGs. Other
rowers who (quite possibly at the same time) are abiding by COLREGs must be
outside the buoys, i.e. amongst the rest of us.

Why rowers are exempt from the Convention on the International Regulations
for Preventing Collisions at Sea (COLREG) on this part of the Thames is an
ancient mystery which only rowers understand. The buoys were put there to
allow them to continue to breach COLREGs, not to segregate them, after a
collision took place in 2001 in Syon Reach involving a motor cruiser, (which
was proceeding downriver and keeping well to the starboard side of the
channel) and a coxless four, rowing against the stream according to their
own rules on the port side of the river, on the inside of the bend.
http://www.pla.co.uk/pdfs/maritime/Report_220405.pdf

David

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Edward Burrell
> Sent: 03 October 2008 09:29
> To: DBAMAIN@...
> Subject: Re: DBAm: Rowing buoys
>
> I think these are a good thing. Anything that keeps rowers in their
> place is helpful. They also serve to mark the deeper
> navigable channel
> (on the south side) between Putney and Hammersmith.
> Lack of visibilty at night is dangerous. If they put the
> light on top of
> a short pole it would help.
> Edward.

From forum: DBA the Barge Association - Main List

Re: Hydraulic steering conversion

2008-10-03T03:20:12Z

Mark Hughes-3 wrote:

A good reason for having a balanced cylinder is the ability to fit a bypass
valve that can be operated if using an emergency tiller. Not possible
with an unbalanced cylinder. With an unbalanced cylinder the ram would have
to be detached from tiller arm to employ another method of steering.

Regards

Mark

i'm not sure if i am thinking straight, but i think it would still be possible to fit a bypass valve on unbalanced pistons, its just limited in extension from the smaller volume side not accomodating all the oil from the larger side, but should still give enough movement for emergency. which i believe is a minimum of 35deg.

we have 2 removable pins through the eyes of the piston ends to free the rudder for emergency steering, which is a good idea anyway for repair access and incase its the actual piston thats siezed.

regards al

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