Can we get a status update for 4.6?

[Jasper Huijsmans]

Hey guys,

I was wondering what the overall status was of the Xfce 'platform'
modules, that is the libraries and the new settings system.  I know
I'm not of much use to Xfce currently, but at least I'd like to test
the latest stuff.

For starters, the design of the new config system is not completely
clear to me. We have the following components:

- xfconf
  - xfconfd : settings store
  - xfsettingsd : XSETTINGS daemon. Data retrieved from xconfd?

- xfce4-settings
  - xfce4-settings-helper : I know I should just read the sources, but
anyone care to explain to me what this does?
  - xfce4-settings-manager : collect the different settings
executables and present a single dialog with the available options

BTW, as far as I can tell, xfwm4 is the only module that still depends
on xfce-mcs-manger, is that correct? I know there a bug, tracking the
progress here, so I'll see if I can use those patches to get a
rudimentary mcs free system ;-)

The other thing is that I'm not entirely sure about the state of the
GUI libraries: libxfcegui4 vs. libxfce4ui. Can we remove one of these
yet, or is that post-4.6?

I have a little bit of free time the next two weeks, so I'll see if I
can fix a bug or two (I haven't completely abandoned Xfce, you
know...)

Cheers,

--
 Jasper
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[Diego Ongaro-2]

On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 15:39, Jasper Huijsmans <jasper@...> wrote:
> I was wondering what the overall status was of the Xfce 'platform'
> modules, that is the libraries and the new settings system.  I know
> I'm not of much use to Xfce currently, but at least I'd like to test
> the latest stuff.

I'm not trying to hijack this thread, but on a related note, I'd like
to know which modules are being developed for 4.6 in branches instead
of trunk. For example, Stephen's recent work on the rodent icon theme
is in a branch. For my livecd scripts, I need to override the default
trunk assumption for these modules.

Thanks,
Diego
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[Nick Schermer]

2008/7/16 Jasper Huijsmans <jasper@...>:

> Hey guys,
>
> I was wondering what the overall status was of the Xfce 'platform'
> modules, that is the libraries and the new settings system.  I know
> I'm not of much use to Xfce currently, but at least I'd like to test
> the latest stuff.
>
> For starters, the design of the new config system is not completely
> clear to me. We have the following components:
>
> - xfconf
>  - xfconfd : settings store

Yeah, it's a dbus service handling the xfconf channels, storing it
to xml files in ~/.config/xfce4/xfconf/xfce-perchannel-xml/

>  - xfsettingsd : XSETTINGS daemon. Data retrieved from xconfd?

Monitoring 1 channel of xfconf, the xsettings channel. It send the changes
(and on start: all) settings of the channel to X, so Qt/Gtk can handle
the changes.

> - xfce4-settings
>  - xfce4-settings-helper : I know I should just read the sources, but
> anyone care to explain to me what this does?

There xsettingsd handles all know xsetting settings (doh), this daemon (which
is not automatically started yet) handles all the other stuff, like
xkb, pointers,
shortcuts, accesibility... etc. Everything that's outside the xsetting scope.

>  - xfce4-settings-manager : collect the different settings
> executables and present a single dialog with the available options

Yup, collects settings desktop files of all the executables created in
the dialogs/ dir.

> BTW, as far as I can tell, xfwm4 is the only module that still depends
> on xfce-mcs-manger, is that correct? I know there a bug, tracking the
> progress here, so I'll see if I can use those patches to get a
> rudimentary mcs free system ;-)

Well not entirely, xfce4-settings-manager is only collecting desktop files
installed in a directory outside the 'normal' applications directory, so
for example xfce4-panel does not show up in the settings dialog, because
it's not installing a copy of the normal desktop file in the settings directory.
($prefix/share/xfce4/settings-dialogs/

I voted for looking the the applications directory and showing all applications
in the 'settings'/ category, but nobody had a clear opining on that...

> The other thing is that I'm not entirely sure about the state of the
> GUI libraries: libxfcegui4 vs. libxfce4ui. Can we remove one of these
> yet, or is that post-4.6?

libxfce4ui is post 4.6, no component is using it yet.

> I have a little bit of free time the next two weeks, so I'll see if I
> can fix a bug or two (I haven't completely abandoned Xfce, you
> know...)

Good, I'll commit some fixes to xfce4-panel this Friday so you can at least
test these ;-).

Nick
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[Moritz Heiber]

As for a release date: The alpha release has been pushed back until
Brian's back from Cairo which gives the rest of the team enough time to
implement all settings related changes and we'll probably be able to
ship the alpha without any component dependent on mcs.

Regards,

Moritz

On Wed, 16 Jul 2008 16:39:13 +0200
"Jasper Huijsmans" <jasper@...> wrote:

> Hey guys,
>
> I was wondering what the overall status was of the Xfce 'platform'
> modules, that is the libraries and the new settings system.  I know
> I'm not of much use to Xfce currently, but at least I'd like to test
> the latest stuff.
>
> For starters, the design of the new config system is not completely
> clear to me. We have the following components:
>
> - xfconf
>   - xfconfd : settings store
>   - xfsettingsd : XSETTINGS daemon. Data retrieved from xconfd?
>
> - xfce4-settings
>   - xfce4-settings-helper : I know I should just read the sources, but
> anyone care to explain to me what this does?
>   - xfce4-settings-manager : collect the different settings
> executables and present a single dialog with the available options
>
> BTW, as far as I can tell, xfwm4 is the only module that still depends
> on xfce-mcs-manger, is that correct? I know there a bug, tracking the
> progress here, so I'll see if I can use those patches to get a
> rudimentary mcs free system ;-)
>
> The other thing is that I'm not entirely sure about the state of the
> GUI libraries: libxfcegui4 vs. libxfce4ui. Can we remove one of these
> yet, or is that post-4.6?
>
> I have a little bit of free time the next two weeks, so I'll see if I
> can fix a bug or two (I haven't completely abandoned Xfce, you
> know...)
>
> Cheers,
>

--
GPG public key B189E8C8


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[Christian Dywan]

Am Wed, 16 Jul 2008 19:27:55 +0200
schrieb "Nick Schermer" <nickschermer@...>:

> 2008/7/16 Jasper Huijsmans <jasper@...>:
> > Hey guys,
> > BTW, as far as I can tell, xfwm4 is the only module that still
> > depends on xfce-mcs-manger, is that correct? I know there a bug,
> > tracking the progress here, so I'll see if I can use those patches
> > to get a rudimentary mcs free system ;-)
>
> Well not entirely, xfce4-settings-manager is only collecting desktop
> files installed in a directory outside the 'normal' applications
> directory, so for example xfce4-panel does not show up in the
> settings dialog, because it's not installing a copy of the normal
> desktop file in the settings directory.
> ($prefix/share/xfce4/settings-dialogs/
>
> I voted for looking the the applications directory and showing all
> applications in the 'settings'/ category, but nobody had a clear
> opining on that...

If that is an option, I would really love to see the settings manager
pick up files from $prefix/share/applications. That has a few
advantages as I see it.

1. All files in one place, easy to find.
2. No need to install files in more than one place.
3. A future version could show non-Xfce apps as well.

Strings of the form "Categories=X-XFCE;Settings;DesktopSettings;" are
currently in use for Xfce settings desktop files, so it should be
straightforward to pick the right files.

Just my two pfennigs,
    Christian
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[Stephan Arts-2]

On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 5:01 PM, Diego Ongaro <ongardie@...> wrote:

> On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 15:39, Jasper Huijsmans <jasper@...> wrote:
>> I was wondering what the overall status was of the Xfce 'platform'
>> modules, that is the libraries and the new settings system.  I know
>> I'm not of much use to Xfce currently, but at least I'd like to test
>> the latest stuff.
>
> I'm not trying to hijack this thread, but on a related note, I'd like
> to know which modules are being developed for 4.6 in branches instead
> of trunk. For example, Stephen's recent work on the rodent icon theme
> is in a branch. For my livecd scripts, I need to override the default
> trunk assumption for these modules.

I am developing that in a branch for a reason, It is more broken then trunk atm.
When it contains icons for most icon-names... it will move to trunk.

I dunno if it will be in time for 4.6 though.

>
> Thanks,
> Diego

Regards,
Stephan
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[Nick Schermer]

2008/7/17 Christian Dywan <christian@...>:
> Am Wed, 16 Jul 2008 19:27:55 +0200
> schrieb "Nick Schermer" <nickschermer@...>:
>> I voted for looking the the applications directory and showing all
>> applications in the 'settings'/ category, but nobody had a clear
>> opining on that...
>
> Strings of the form "Categories=X-XFCE;Settings;DesktopSettings;" are
> currently in use for Xfce settings desktop files, so it should be
> straightforward to pick the right files.

It is, but since the changes are almost all in Brians code
(xfce4-settings-manager), we'll wait until he's back from vacation.

Nick
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[Brian J. Tarricone]

Christian Dywan wrote:

> Am Wed, 16 Jul 2008 19:27:55 +0200
> schrieb "Nick Schermer" <nickschermer@...>:
>
>> 2008/7/16 Jasper Huijsmans <jasper@...>:
>>> Hey guys,
>>> BTW, as far as I can tell, xfwm4 is the only module that still
>>> depends on xfce-mcs-manger, is that correct? I know there a bug,
>>> tracking the progress here, so I'll see if I can use those patches
>>> to get a rudimentary mcs free system ;-)
>> Well not entirely, xfce4-settings-manager is only collecting desktop
>> files installed in a directory outside the 'normal' applications
>> directory, so for example xfce4-panel does not show up in the
>> settings dialog, because it's not installing a copy of the normal
>> desktop file in the settings directory.
>> ($prefix/share/xfce4/settings-dialogs/
>>
>> I voted for looking the the applications directory and showing all
>> applications in the 'settings'/ category, but nobody had a clear
>> opining on that...
>
> If that is an option, I would really love to see the settings manager
> pick up files from $prefix/share/applications. That has a few
> advantages as I see it.
>
> 1. All files in one place, easy to find.
> 2. No need to install files in more than one place.
> 3. A future version could show non-Xfce apps as well.
>
> Strings of the form "Categories=X-XFCE;Settings;DesktopSettings;" are
> currently in use for Xfce settings desktop files, so it should be
> straightforward to pick the right files.

Yeah, I guess I'd be ok doing it this way.  I'm just afraid that parsing
all .desktop files in all the usual directories would slow down startup
quite a bit.  But I guess there's only one way to find out...

        -b

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[Nick Schermer]

2008/7/22 Brian J. Tarricone <bjt23@...>:
> Christian Dywan wrote:
>> Strings of the form "Categories=X-XFCE;Settings;DesktopSettings;" are
>> currently in use for Xfce settings desktop files, so it should be
>> straightforward to pick the right files.
>
> Yeah, I guess I'd be ok doing it this way.  I'm just afraid that parsing
> all .desktop files in all the usual directories would slow down startup
> quite a bit.  But I guess there's only one way to find out...

Eej, back from vacation ^_^. Anyway, I've already tried it and was
unable to see a speed difference, but I don't have _that_ much
applications installed.

Nick
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