Can I buy some maps to draw my City?

[Łukasz Holetzke]

Hi,

Whole story on: http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/GoLDie/diary/3376

"(...) I thought about buying some aerial photos [1], but I don't know
if there are some legal issues for making the beautiful map of my city
(...)"

and

"I'll try to translate our conversation:
Me: Buying your photos allows me to create maps of roads and terrain?
Created maps will be made available under a Creative Commons License
Attribution-Share Alike 2.0 Generic.

They: Yes, if the product created by you does not contain any part or
all of our orthophotomaps and it wont be posssible to obtain from the
file our orthophotomaps (clearly - the layers must be seperated)."

What do you think about this?

The maps aren't so expensive: 1km^2 cost about 10Euro + VAT. I would
buy some for my projects.

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[Jeffrey Martin-2]

On Sun, Sep 21, 2008 at 6:32 AM, Łukasz Holetzke
<lukasz.holetzke@...> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Whole story on: http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/GoLDie/diary/3376
>
> "(...) I thought about buying some aerial photos [1], but I don't know
> if there are some legal issues for making the beautiful map of my city
> (...)"
>
> and
>
> "I'll try to translate our conversation:
> Me: Buying your photos allows me to create maps of roads and terrain?
> Created maps will be made available under a Creative Commons License
> Attribution-Share Alike 2.0 Generic.
>
> They: Yes, if the product created by you does not contain any part or
> all of our orthophotomaps and it wont be posssible to obtain from the
> file our orthophotomaps (clearly - the layers must be seperated)."
>
> What do you think about this?
>
> The maps aren't so expensive: 1km^2 cost about 10Euro + VAT. I would
> buy some for my projects.
>
> _______________________________________________
> legal-talk mailing list
> legal-talk@...
> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
>

That makes sense to me and if it's true then it would apply to all
aerial photography
and not just theirs.

That makes me think that there is some court ruling that would make it
not be true.
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[Frederik Ramm]

Hi,

Jeffrey Martin wrote:
> That makes sense to me and if it's true then it would apply to all aerial photography and not just theirs.

I don't understand. I thought we were talking about the terms and
conditions that this particular vendor has attached to his product?

Bye
Frederik

--
Frederik Ramm  ##  eMail frederik@...  ##  N49°00'09" E008°23'33"

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[Jeffrey Martin-2]

2008/9/21 Frederik Ramm <frederik@...>:

> Hi,
>
> Jeffrey Martin wrote:
>> That makes sense to me and if it's true then it would apply to all aerial photography and not just theirs.
>
> I don't understand. I thought we were talking about the terms and
> conditions that this particular vendor has attached to his product?
>
> Bye
> Frederik
>
> --
> Frederik Ramm  ##  eMail frederik@...  ##  N49°00'09" E008°23'33"
>

Are we talking about the license he is giving you, his interpretation
of the license,
or his interpretation of the law? I think these are three distinct things.

-Jeff

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[Łukasz Holetzke]

> Are we talking about the license he is giving you, his interpretation
> of the license,
> or his interpretation of the law? I think these are three distinct things.

I wrote to you, becuase i'm not sure, if I can use copyrighted photos
to draw nodes on openstreetmap.
I thing, there is no problem with their maps from their side (i mean -
their licence). But is there a problem with putting data to osm from
my part of the work (based on their photos)?


one point of the licence says:

2.3. W ramach licencji udzielonej stosownie do postanowień punktów
poprzedzających Licencjobiorca jest uprawniony do wtórnego
wykorzystania zbioru danych oraz trwałych i czasowych zwielokrotnień
danych wyłącznie w zakresie niezbędnym dla celów związanych z
działalnością swojego przedsiębiorstwa lub – jeśli nie prowadzi
przedsiębiorstwa – w celach statutowych (lub do użytku domowego). W
każdym przypadku wykorzystanie produktu rodzi obowiązek jego
oznaczania zastrzeżeniem o treści: „(c) TECHMEX S.A. , wszelkie prawa
zastrzeżone" (lub równoznacznym w języku obcym w przypadku
wykorzystania poza granicami terytorium Rzeczpospolitej Polskiej).

Now the translation (may be inaccurate - some text is google
translated - so I'm sorry):
Under the licensce granted by (resolutions/decisions) in previous
points the Licensee is granted to secondary use of the data and
reproductions of fixed and temporary data only to the extent necessary
for purposes related to the activities of their company or - if not
established - for statutory (or household). In any case, using the
product obliges to description of the context with: "(c) TECHMEX S.A.
, All rights reserved" (or equivalent in foreign language, when used
outside the territory of Poland).

I wrote to them. First I asked them about the second sentence of the
point, about the
description of the product (I was not sure about this point):
> Should I describe my work with your copyright? And:
> 1. i have no company;
> 2. as I wrote earlier: I would use your product to create maps of streets and terrain
> (creating nodes on another layer, connecting it and tagging using special software),
> created points will be shared on a Creative Commons Attribution-Share Alike 2.0 Generic.

> Do you claim any rights to my product (created on the basis of your product)?

They answered:
> This point is about our maps and all compilations with our maps. When
> your content is in 100% yours (for example done on our maps but It
> doesn't contain our maps) you do not have to describe it with our
> copyright. We don't claim any rights to your product.

If I made some mistakes in translating our conversation here Is the
original Polish part:
Me:
"Czy ostatnie zdanie tego punktu dotyczy produktu Waszego, czy mojego?
Kilka wyjaśnień:
1. nie prowadzę działalności gospodarczej;
2. tak, jak wspomniałem już wcześniej: chciałbym wykorzystać Wasz
produkt do tworzenia map dróg i terenu (nakładając punkty na osobną
warstwę, łącząc je ze sobą i opisując je korzystając ze
specjalistycznego oprogramowania), stworzone punkty (drogi i rodzaj
terenu) byłyby udostępnione na licencji CC-A-SA 2.0 (Creative Commons
Attribution-Share Alike 2.0 Generic).

Czy do mojego produktu (stworzonego na podstawie Waszego produktu)
roszczycie sobie jakieś prawa?"

sklep at geoserwer dot pl:
"Poniższy punkt dotyczy naszych map i wszelkich kompilacji tychże map z
innymi warstwami. W momencie, gdy utwór (czyli mapa) stanowi w 100% Pana
dzieło (czyli np. jest tworzony na podstawie naszej mapy, ale jej nie
zawiera) nie musi Pan umieszczać tego napisu. Nie rościmy sobie również
żadnych praw do Pana produktu."

Regards,

 --
Łukasz Holetzke
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[Johann H. Addicks]

> They: Yes, if the product created by you does not contain any part or
> all of our orthophotomaps and it wont be posssible to obtain from the
> file our orthophotomaps (clearly - the layers must be seperated)."

> What do you think about this?

It sounds fair.
He does not forbid derived artwork in form of drawing maps  
from his phoptos.
What he wants is, that it is not possible to take the OSM-
Data and extract his orthophotographs in any, and not have  
the orthophotographs visible for any later user.

So it's -as far as i can see- perfect for making vector-
maps.

-jha- .



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[Łukasz Holetzke]

2008/9/22 Johann H. Addicks <addicks@...>:

>
>> They: Yes, if the product created by you does not contain any part or
>> all of our orthophotomaps and it wont be posssible to obtain from the
>> file our orthophotomaps (clearly - the layers must be seperated)."
>
>> What do you think about this?
>
> It sounds fair.
> He does not forbid derived artwork in form of drawing maps
> from his phoptos.
> What he wants is, that it is not possible to take the OSM-
> Data and extract his orthophotographs in any, and not have
> the orthophotographs visible for any later user.
>
> So it's -as far as i can see- perfect for making vector-
> maps.
>

And what about the source tag? Some special one? Or simply
source=geoserwer.pl or better source=techmex s.a.?

Regards,

 --
Łukasz Holetzke
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[Johann H. Addicks]

> And what about the source tag? Some special one? Or simply
> source=geoserwer.pl or better source=techmex s.a.?


If he want's an attribution inside our database, you have to  
ask HIM.
But if the topic is not already on the agenda or explicitly  
unclear: Do not trigger the topic.

Otherwise you might create a wish like "i want the name of  
my company on (all) maps drawn". (A thing we could not  
assure as you put only data in a database, but the people  
who render have their own individual rules.) As an "escape"  
you could only offer him, that the name is drawn on several  
maps you print out and/or use for a dedicated project...

But for that you would need somebody setting up a dedicated  
mapnik/omarender with own ruleset. Or at least some KOSMOS  
etc.

As you see, attribution may cause a lot of extra work. and  
for the photos formerlyused to draw a map this might be  
overdone.

-jha-







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