Nabble - CAN Bus

RE: CAN termination 120R power rating

2008-10-10T08:20:43Z

Message

Thanks.

John

Automation Artisans Inc.
http://www.autoartisans.com/ELS/
Ph. 1 250 544 4950

-----Original Message-----
From: canlist-owner@... [mailto:canlist-owner@...] On Behalf Of Funny NYPD
Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 10:07 AM
To: canlist@...
Subject: RE: [CANLIST] CAN termination 120R power rating
Micro-C terminal resistors:
Male: 84586-0018
FeMale: 84586-0019

Funny N.
Au Group Electronics, http://www.AuElectronics.com

--- On Thu, 10/9/08, John Dammeyer <johnd@...> wrote:
From: John Dammeyer <johnd@...>
Subject: RE: [CANLIST] CAN termination 120R power rating
To: canlist@...
Date: Thursday, October 9, 2008, 11:57 AM
Hi,

Could you post the Molex connector #?

Thanks

John

Automation Artisans Inc.
http://www.autoartisans.com/ELS/
Ph. 1 250 544 4950
-----Original Message-----
From: canlist-owner@... [mailto:canlist-owner@...] On Behalf Of Funny NYPD
Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 5:42 AM
To: canlist@...
Subject: Re: [CANLIST] CAN termination 120R power rating
I forgot to mention Molex too has connectors with 120 ohm resistor embedded for NMEA2000 and Industry application.

Funny N.
Au Group Electronics, http://www.AuElectronics.com

--- On Thu, 10/9/08, Bertil Bäck <bertil.back@...> wrote:
From: Bertil Bäck <bertil.back@...>
Subject: Re: [CANLIST] CAN termination 120R power rating
To: canlist@...
Date: Thursday, October 9, 2008, 1:47 AM
Hi,
have now agreed with our customer to use 1W termination resistors. Then if they connect +36VDC to CAN hi or low it's a fault and the resistor are allowed to burn.

Would still be interesting to see how an large wire wound e.g. 7W resistor affects the network. If one can see reflection spikes.

Br,
Bertil BÄCK R&D Manager Hardware
T +358 6 357 6305, M +358 50 588 6895, F +358 6 357 6320
bertil.back@..., www.tke.fi
Funny NYPD wrote:
Deutsch actually have at least two type of connectors which has a 120 ohm terminal resistor inside.

Funny N.
Au Group Electronics, http://www.AuElectronics.com

--- On Wed, 10/8/08, John Dammeyer johnd@... wrote:
From: John Dammeyer johnd@...
Subject: RE: [CANLIST] CAN termination 120R power rating
To: canlist@...
Date: Wednesday, October 8, 2008, 12:28 PM
I'd be careful here.  Large power resistors are more often than not wound
and have an inductance.  You might also want to look at the polyfuse
capacitance.  There's no point in turning your transmission line into some
sort of resonant circuit that could cause all sorts of odd behaviours.

If rescuing the termination resistors is really important then put a
conventional fuse in series with it.  Or mount it above the board or for
that matter in a plug that terminates the end of the cable.  If it
 is
destroyed by 24V on the CAN bus then it's easy to repair without much cost
or issues.

I'd address though, how someone could put 24V on the cable in the first
place.  A simpler solution and more robust might be to add blocking diodes
(or a bridge) to the power supply input so that even if the polarity was
reversed, nothing bad happens.

John
 Dammeyer

Automation Artisans Inc.
http://www.autoartisans.com/ELS/
Ph. 1 250 544 4950


> -----Original Message-----
> From: canlist-owner@...
> [canlist-owner@...] On
> Behalf Of Bertil Bäck
> Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2008 1:06 AM
> To: canlist@...
> Subject: Re: [CANLIST] CAN termination 120R power rating
>
>
> Torsten Krahl
 wrote:
> > Hello Br,
> >>
 You should take in consideration a short circuit to
 the
> power train
> >> (14V or 27V?) to be sure that the resister want blow.
> >> The extreme but very rare case would be a short of one
> line to ground
> >> an the other line to the power train, but I normally exclude this
> >> case (leads to a >6W resistor on 27V
> > just want to add my experience with that ... the more often ( then
> > having a short of line to GND and 24V power ) is, that the customer
> > just connects the power to the wrong terminal block. That means you
> > have directly power supply ( 12V ... 24V ) on your CAN-lines - and
> > with switched on termination the "normal" resistor of 1,2W
> will blow.
> > This is what we see quite often in our daily business.
> >
> Ok, I will take this in
 consideration. The problem is that I
> have 5
 CAN
> channels om my PCB and there is no room for
 >6W resistors. One idea
> might be to add an SMD polyfuse in series with the resistor.
> Wonder how
> that would affect the bus termination?
>
> Br,
>
> Bertil BÄCK R&D Manager Hardware
> T +358 6 357 6305, M +358 50 588 6895, F +358 6 357 6320
> bertil.back@..., www.tke.fi
>
>
> > Mit freundlichen Gruessen
> > With best regards
> >
> > Torsten M. Krahl
> >
> >
> > --------------------------------
> > http://www.MicroControl.net
> > krahl@...
> >
> > Fon: +49 (0)2241 / 256 59 - 0
> > Fax: +49 (0)2241 / 256 59 - 11
> >
> > MicroControl GmbH & Co. KG
> > Lindlaustr. 2 c
> > 53842 Troisdorf, Germany
> >
> > Persönlich haftend:
> > MicroControl Systemhaus für Automatisierung
>
 Beteiligungsgesellschaft
> > mbH, Troisdorf
> >
> > HRB 4952 Siegburg (GmbH)  HRA 3110 Siegburg (KG)
> >
> > Geschäftsführer:
> > Dipl.-Ing. Uwe Koppe
> > Dipl.-Ing. (FH) Torsten Krahl
> > Dipl.-Ing. (FH) Frank Wielpütz
> >
> > Ust-IdNr. DE 812191199
> > --------------------------------
> >
>
 > --
> > Archives and useful links: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CANbus
> > Subscribe and unsubscribe at www.vector-informatik.com/canlist/
> > Report any problems to canlist-owner@...
> >
> --
> Archives and useful links: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CANbus
> Subscribe and unsubscribe at www.vector-informatik.com/canlist/
> Report any problems to canlist-owner@...
>
>

--
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 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CANbus
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RE: CAN termination 120R power rating

2008-10-09T10:07:16Z

Micro-C terminal resistors:
Male: 84586-0018
FeMale: 84586-0019

Funny N.
Au Group Electronics, http://www.AuElectronics.com

--- On Thu, 10/9/08, John Dammeyer <johnd@...> wrote:

From: John Dammeyer <johnd@...>
Subject: RE: [CANLIST] CAN termination 120R power rating
To: canlist@...
Date: Thursday, October 9, 2008, 11:57 AM
Message
Hi,

Could you post the Molex connector #?

Thanks

John

Automation Artisans Inc.
http://www.autoartisans.com/ELS/
Ph. 1 250 544 4950
-----Original Message-----
From: canlist-owner@... [mailto:canlist-owner@...] On Behalf Of Funny NYPD
Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 5:42 AM
To: canlist@...
Subject: Re: [CANLIST] CAN termination 120R power rating
I forgot to mention Molex too has connectors with 120 ohm resistor embedded for NMEA2000 and Industry application.

Funny N.
Au Group Electronics, http://www.AuElectronics.com

--- On Thu, 10/9/08, Bertil Bäck <bertil.back@...> wrote:
From: Bertil Bäck <bertil.back@...>
Subject: Re: [CANLIST] CAN termination 120R power rating
To: canlist@...
Date: Thursday, October 9, 2008, 1:47 AM
Hi,
have now agreed with our customer to use 1W termination resistors. Then if they connect +36VDC to CAN hi or low it's a fault and the resistor are allowed to burn.

Would still be interesting to see how an large wire wound e.g. 7W resistor affects the network. If one can see reflection spikes.

Br,
Bertil BÄCK R&D Manager Hardware
T +358 6 357 6305, M +358 50 588 6895, F +358 6 357 6320
bertil.back@..., www.tke.fi
Funny NYPD wrote:
Deutsch actually have at least two type of connectors which has a 120 ohm terminal resistor inside.

Funny N.
Au Group Electronics, http://www.AuElectronics.com

--- On Wed, 10/8/08, John Dammeyer johnd@... wrote:
From: John Dammeyer johnd@...
Subject: RE: [CANLIST] CAN termination 120R power rating
To: canlist@...
Date: Wednesday, October 8, 2008, 12:28 PM
I'd be careful here.  Large power resistors are more often than not wound
and have an inductance.  You might also want to look at the polyfuse
capacitance.  There's no point in turning your transmission line into some
sort of resonant circuit that could cause all sorts of odd behaviours.

If rescuing the termination resistors is really important then put a
conventional fuse in series with it.  Or mount it above the board or for
that matter in a plug that terminates the end of the cable.  If it
 is
destroyed by 24V on the CAN bus then it's easy to repair without much cost
or issues.

I'd address though, how someone could put 24V on the cable in the first
place.  A simpler solution and more robust might be to add blocking diodes
(or a bridge) to the power supply input so that even if the polarity was
reversed, nothing bad happens.

John
 Dammeyer

Automation Artisans Inc.
http://www.autoartisans.com/ELS/
Ph. 1 250 544 4950


> -----Original Message-----
> From: canlist-owner@...
> [canlist-owner@...] On
> Behalf Of Bertil Bäck
> Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2008 1:06 AM
> To: canlist@...
> Subject: Re: [CANLIST] CAN termination 120R power rating
>
>
> Torsten Krahl
 wrote:
> > Hello Br,
> >>
 You should take in consideration a short circuit to
 the
> power train
> >> (14V or 27V?) to be sure that the resister want blow.
> >> The extreme but very rare case would be a short of one
> line to ground
> >> an the other line to the power train, but I normally exclude this
> >> case (leads to a >6W resistor on 27V
> > just want to add my experience with that ... the more often ( then
> > having a short of line to GND and 24V power ) is, that the customer
> > just connects the power to the wrong terminal block. That means you
> > have directly power supply ( 12V ... 24V ) on your CAN-lines - and
> > with switched on termination the "normal" resistor of 1,2W
> will blow.
> > This is what we see quite often in our daily business.
> >
> Ok, I will take this in
 consideration. The problem is that I
> have 5
 CAN
> channels om my PCB and there is no room for
 >6W resistors. One idea
> might be to add an SMD polyfuse in series with the resistor.
> Wonder how
> that would affect the bus termination?
>
> Br,
>
> Bertil BÄCK R&D Manager Hardware
> T +358 6 357 6305, M +358 50 588 6895, F +358 6 357 6320
> bertil.back@..., www.tke.fi
>
>
> > Mit freundlichen Gruessen
> > With best regards
> >
> > Torsten M. Krahl
> >
> >
> > --------------------------------
> > http://www.MicroControl.net
> > krahl@...
> >
> > Fon: +49 (0)2241 / 256 59 - 0
> > Fax: +49 (0)2241 / 256 59 - 11
> >
> > MicroControl GmbH & Co. KG
> > Lindlaustr. 2 c
> > 53842 Troisdorf, Germany
> >
> > Persönlich haftend:
> > MicroControl Systemhaus für Automatisierung
>
 Beteiligungsgesellschaft
> > mbH, Troisdorf
> >
> > HRB 4952 Siegburg (GmbH)  HRA 3110 Siegburg (KG)
> >
> > Geschäftsführer:
> > Dipl.-Ing. Uwe Koppe
> > Dipl.-Ing. (FH) Torsten Krahl
> > Dipl.-Ing. (FH) Frank Wielpütz
> >
> > Ust-IdNr. DE 812191199
> > --------------------------------
> >
>
 > --
> > Archives and useful links: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CANbus
> > Subscribe and unsubscribe at www.vector-informatik.com/canlist/
> > Report any problems to canlist-owner@...
> >
> --
> Archives and useful links: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CANbus
> Subscribe and unsubscribe at www.vector-informatik.com/canlist/
> Report any problems to canlist-owner@...
>
>

--
Archives and useful links:
 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CANbus
Subscribe and unsubscribe at www.vector-informatik.com/canlist/
Report any problems to canlist-owner@...
          
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RE: Digital output not turning OFF

2008-10-09T09:20:45Z

Message

I’ll look closer into the transmission routine and try to have a look at the bus. Then I’ll tell you the results.

Thank you all for your interest and useful recommendations.

JXLL

De: canlist-owner@... [mailto:canlist-owner@...] En nombre de John Dammeyer
Enviado el: Miércoles, 08 de Octubre de 2008 07:27 p.m.
Para: canlist@...
Asunto: RE: [CANLIST] Digital output not turning OFF

JXLL,

I can sense your frustration here. You will probably kick yourself when you discover the problem which is undoubtedly going to be really simple.

I'm with Steve here. You have what appears to be a software issue rather than hardware. And it's hiding behind the fact that the PWM node appears to be working correctly.

First, as Steve said, you have to make sure the message is really being transmitted. Since you are probably calling the same routine you call for the PWM odds are that part is good but a separate monitor on the bus (Steve's or Lawicels) or something you whip up to print serial messages out a UART.

After that if your receive module is doing filtering turn that off. Ensure the message is even arriving. If you have only two nodes and the transmitting unit doesn't go ballistic with retries then the other node _has_ to be receiving the message. Otherwise the transmitter will never signal to its' app that it's done.

After that find our where you've made the mistake on the receiver.

Hang in there.

John Dammeyer

Automation Artisans Inc.
http://www.autoartisans.com/ELS/
Ph. 1 250 544 4950

-----Original Message-----
From: canlist-owner@... [mailto:canlist-owner@...] On Behalf Of Steve Letkeman
Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2008 1:11 PM
To: canlist@...
Subject: Re: [CANLIST] Digital output not turning OFF

is the message to turn off even getting to the board? Add code to transmit a diagnostic message
every time the message is received. This will tell you if it is a transmit/receive/error issue or a logic
issue in your routines. It will also tell you if you are receiving multiple messages that you aren't
aware of. If the message is received properly every time then you know you have some internal
issue that might have nothing to do with CAN, right?

John, I tried triple sampling, but unfortunately, it stuck again on the ON position.

What I want to point out is that I removed everything from the network (all the electro valves, all the other nodes, etc.) I just left node 3 with only one relay and a led. No inductive load, no long cables, no errors/logs generated… And the behavior persists.

It’s just a simple digital output! Only causing big trouble in node 3 and making my life miserable.

Why do you think this might be happening only in this node, and not in the other nodes?

De: canlist-owner@... [canlist-owner@...] En nombre de John Dammeyer
Enviado el: Martes, 07 de Octubre de 2008 06:41 p.m.
Para: canlist@...
Asunto: RE: [CANLIST] Digital output not turning OFF

Hi,

I have a couple of questions.

1. How are you powering each node?

2. Is there a common ground between them all?

3. Do they share the same power and ground as the inductive valves?

4. Where are you sampling the bit? At the 75% point? 85% point?

5. At 50kbps there's lots of time to enable and use 3 samples per bit. Do you do this?

OK. More than a couple of questions.

Oh yes. And you do have a 120 ohm resistor across CANH and CANL at each end of the bus?

John Dammeyer

Automation Artisans Inc.
http://www.autoartisans.com/ELS/
Ph. 1 250 544 4950

-----Original Message-----
From: canlist-owner@... [canlist-owner@...] On Behalf Of Corrigan, Steve
Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2008 2:14 PM
To: canlist@...
Subject: RE: [CANLIST] Digital output not turning OFF

Could it possibly be the electrovalves thenselves? Do they all turn on at once, or is there a millisecond or two between turn on. I'm wondering how much "switch bounce" is playing into this.

Steve C.

From: canlist-owner@... [canlist-owner@...] On Behalf Of JXLL
Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2008 2:31 PM
To: canlist@...
Subject: RE: [CANLIST] Digital output not turning OFF

FunnyN: An ordinary 8MHz crystal. Why? Do you think it could be generating noise? I don’t count common mode chokes as inductive loads.

SteveC: Yes, a PWM in node 5 that drives a DC motor.

Thank you for your time.

De: canlist-owner@... [canlist-owner@...] En nombre de Funny NYPD
Enviado el: Martes, 07 de Octubre de 2008 03:24 p.m.
Para: canlist@...
Asunto: RE: [CANLIST] Digital output not turning OFF

Do you count common mode choke as inductive loads?
The truck industry has been using the common mode choke for quite a while, and it seems working fine on 250K network for up to 40 meter backbone.

Funny N.
Au Group Electronics, http://www.AuElectronics.com

--- On Tue, 10/7/08, Corrigan, Steve s-corrigan1@... wrote:

From: Corrigan, Steve s-corrigan1@...
Subject: RE: [CANLIST] Digital output not turning OFF
To: canlist@... canlist@...
Date: Tuesday, October 7, 2008, 1:17 PM

Also,

Do any of the other nodes have inductive loads?

Steve C.

From: canlist-owner@... [canlist-owner@...] On Behalf Of Funny NYPD
Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2008 11:40 AM
To: canlist@...
Subject: Re: [CANLIST] Digital output not turning OFF

What's the crystal type and accuracy?

Funny N.
Au Group Electronics, http://www.AuElectronics.com

--- On Tue, 10/7/08, JXLL jxll29@... wrote:

From: JXLL jxll29@...
Subject: [CANLIST] Digital output not turning OFF
To: canlist@...
Date: Tuesday, October 7, 2008, 11:07 AM

Hi Gurus,

I'm so happy I've found this forum. I've been working with CAN for a few years and now I'm facing an odd problem. I apologize for the length of this post, but I couldn't find a shorter way of describing the problem without avoiding important information. Here's the scenario:

CAN bus network with 6 nodes. Farest node: 10 meters

Node 3 (farest node) drives 16 electrovalves by activating some relays.

CAN bus Speed: 50 kbps

Microprocessor: Motorola's 908gz16

Transceiver CAN: SN65HVD251

Problem:

Every now and then one of these digital outputs doesn't turn off, even though it's told to do so. There isn't a specific digital output that behaves like this, it's a random behaviour, only in node 3. It's odd because every node has the same firmware.

Tests done (and led to the same behaviour):

I changed the load. Instead of inductors (electrovalves), I connected leds.

I shortened CAN cables to 0.5m

I removed every node from the network except for node 3

I trapped all reception error ints in node 3. But no ints where generated (no overrun, no buss off, etc)

I logged transmission errors on the transmitter side, but no errors were logged.

What's really odd about this:

1) If I change node 3 for another node 3, the error rate changes. It can increase or decrease. If it was a software bug, every node 3 should behave the same. And all the other nodes should have this behaviour as well. So this leads me to think it's a hardware issue. But all Nodes' PCBs are the same too. So, if it was a hardware issue, wouldn't be all the nodes affected?

2) If I re-write 2 or 3 times the digital output, it does turn off (it solves the problem). What leads me to think it's a software issue. But:

if I was writing too fast and messages are lost, shouldn't a transmission error be logged?

if i was reading too low (on node 3), shouldn't a reception error int be generated?

Another node drives a PWM without mistakes (that is: a lot more writing to the port, equally fast, no mistakes at all)

Any help will be grately appreciated.

Thanks,

JXL
 
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-- Archives and useful links: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CANbus Subscribe and unsubscribe at www.vector-informatik.com/canlist/ Report any problems to

RE: CAN termination 120R power rating

2008-10-09T08:57:48Z

Message

Hi,

Could you post the Molex connector #?

Thanks

John

Automation Artisans Inc.
http://www.autoartisans.com/ELS/
Ph. 1 250 544 4950

-----Original Message-----
From: canlist-owner@... [mailto:canlist-owner@...] On Behalf Of Funny NYPD
Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 5:42 AM
To: canlist@...
Subject: Re: [CANLIST] CAN termination 120R power rating
I forgot to mention Molex too has connectors with 120 ohm resistor embedded for NMEA2000 and Industry application.

Funny N.
Au Group Electronics, http://www.AuElectronics.com

--- On Thu, 10/9/08, Bertil Bäck <bertil.back@...> wrote:
From: Bertil Bäck <bertil.back@...>
Subject: Re: [CANLIST] CAN termination 120R power rating
To: canlist@...
Date: Thursday, October 9, 2008, 1:47 AM
Hi,
have now agreed with our customer to use 1W termination resistors. Then if they connect +36VDC to CAN hi or low it's a fault and the resistor are allowed to burn.

Would still be interesting to see how an large wire wound e.g. 7W resistor affects the network. If one can see reflection spikes.

Br,
Bertil BÄCK R&D Manager Hardware
T +358 6 357 6305, M +358 50 588 6895, F +358 6 357 6320
bertil.back@..., www.tke.fi
Funny NYPD wrote:
Deutsch actually have at least two type of connectors which has a 120 ohm terminal resistor inside.

Funny N.
Au Group Electronics, http://www.AuElectronics.com

--- On Wed, 10/8/08, John Dammeyer johnd@... wrote:
From: John Dammeyer johnd@...
Subject: RE: [CANLIST] CAN termination 120R power rating
To: canlist@...
Date: Wednesday, October 8, 2008, 12:28 PM
I'd be careful here.  Large power resistors are more often than not wound
and have an inductance.  You might also want to look at the polyfuse
capacitance.  There's no point in turning your transmission line into some
sort of resonant circuit that could cause all sorts of odd behaviours.

If rescuing the termination resistors is really important then put a
conventional fuse in series with it.  Or mount it above the board or for
that matter in a plug that terminates the end of the cable.  If it
 is
destroyed by 24V on the CAN bus then it's easy to repair without much cost
or issues.

I'd address though, how someone could put 24V on the cable in the first
place.  A simpler solution and more robust might be to add blocking diodes
(or a bridge) to the power supply input so that even if the polarity was
reversed, nothing bad happens.

John Dammeyer

Automation Artisans Inc.
http://www.autoartisans.com/ELS/
Ph. 1 250 544 4950


> -----Original Message-----
> From: canlist-owner@...
> [canlist-owner@...] On
> Behalf Of Bertil Bäck
> Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2008 1:06 AM
> To: canlist@...
> Subject: Re: [CANLIST] CAN termination 120R power rating
>
>
> Torsten Krahl wrote:
> > Hello Br,
> >>
 You should take in consideration a short circuit to
 the
> power train
> >> (14V or 27V?) to be sure that the resister want blow.
> >> The extreme but very rare case would be a short of one
> line to ground
> >> an the other line to the power train, but I normally exclude this
> >> case (leads to a >6W resistor on 27V
> > just want to add my experience with that ... the more often ( then
> > having a short of line to GND and 24V power ) is, that the customer
> > just connects the power to the wrong terminal block. That means you
> > have directly power supply ( 12V ... 24V ) on your CAN-lines - and
> > with switched on termination the "normal" resistor of 1,2W
> will blow.
> > This is what we see quite often in our daily business.
> >
> Ok, I will take this in consideration. The problem is that I
> have 5
 CAN
> channels om my PCB and there is no room for
 >6W resistors. One idea
> might be to add an SMD polyfuse in series with the resistor.
> Wonder how
> that would affect the bus termination?
>
> Br,
>
> Bertil BÄCK R&D Manager Hardware
> T +358 6 357 6305, M +358 50 588 6895, F +358 6 357 6320
> bertil.back@..., www.tke.fi
>
>
> > Mit freundlichen Gruessen
> > With best regards
> >
> > Torsten M. Krahl
> >
> >
> > --------------------------------
> > http://www.MicroControl.net
> > krahl@...
> >
> > Fon: +49 (0)2241 / 256 59 - 0
> > Fax: +49 (0)2241 / 256 59 - 11
> >
> > MicroControl GmbH & Co. KG
> > Lindlaustr. 2 c
> > 53842 Troisdorf, Germany
> >
> > Persönlich haftend:
> > MicroControl Systemhaus für Automatisierung
>
 Beteiligungsgesellschaft
> > mbH, Troisdorf
> >
> > HRB 4952 Siegburg (GmbH)  HRA 3110 Siegburg (KG)
> >
> > Geschäftsführer:
> > Dipl.-Ing. Uwe Koppe
> > Dipl.-Ing. (FH) Torsten Krahl
> > Dipl.-Ing. (FH) Frank Wielpütz
> >
> > Ust-IdNr. DE 812191199
> > --------------------------------
> >
> > --
> > Archives and useful links: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CANbus
> > Subscribe and unsubscribe at www.vector-informatik.com/canlist/
> > Report any problems to canlist-owner@...
> >
> --
> Archives and useful links: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CANbus
> Subscribe and unsubscribe at www.vector-informatik.com/canlist/
> Report any problems to canlist-owner@...
>
>

--
Archives and useful links:
 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CANbus
Subscribe and unsubscribe at www.vector-informatik.com/canlist/
Report any problems to canlist-owner@...
          
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Re: RP1210

2008-10-09T08:40:52Z

Peter,

According to Dearborn's web page:

http://www.dgtech.com/product/dpa/software/software.htm

the RP1210 spec can be purchased from the TMC at (703) 838-1763.

Sample code using the RP1210 API can also be found on a Dearborn page:

http://www.dgtech.com/product/dpa/example/example.php

Ralph

--- On Thu, 10/9/08, Peter Lauer <plauer@...> wrote:

> From: Peter Lauer <plauer@...>
> Subject: [CANLIST] RP1210
> To: canlist@...
> Date: Thursday, October 9, 2008, 4:54 AM
> I don't seem to get a lot of feedback on the RP 1210
> issue. Nobody seems to have the original specs or being
> real interested in it.
>
> Peter
>
> Email von Peter Lauer
>
> plauer@...
>
>
>
> > From: plauer@...
> > To: canlist@...
> > Subject: RE: SV: [CANLIST] RP1210
> > Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2008 11:56:45 +0000
> >
> >
> > I found that reference too, but it does not explain
> the individual commands. Why is the specification not on the
> web?
> >
> > Peter
> >
> >
> > Email von Peter Lauerplauer@...
> >
> > ----------------------------------------
> > > From: hakan.carlsson@...
> > > To: plauer@...
> > > Subject: SV: [CANLIST] RP1210
> > > Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2008 08:42:07 +0200
> > >
> > > Hi Peter,
> > >
> > > I hope our web site can give you a quick start or
> not on this subject:
> > >
> > >
> http://www.kvaser.com/can/misc/rp1210/rp1210-a-b.htm
> > >
> > > ------
> > > Best Regards,
> > > Håkan Carlsson
> > >
> > > Switchboard: +46(0)31886344
> > > Direct: +46(0)317061378 extension 387
> > > Fax: +46(0)31886343
> > > Work cell: +46(0)702403910
> > > E-mail: hakan.carlsson@...
> > > SkypeID: carlsson121
> > > Postal address: Kvaser AB, Aminogatan 25A,
> SE43153 Mölndal, Sweden
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Ursprungligt meddelande-----
> > > Från:
> canlist-owner@...
> > >
> [mailto:canlist-owner@...] För
> Peter Lauer
> > > Skickat: den 8 oktober 2008 04:48
> > > Till: canlist@...
> > > Ämne: [CANLIST] RP1210
> > >
> > >
> > > where can I find a copy of the RP1210 spec / api
> description?
> > >
> > > regards
> > >
> > > Peter--
> > > Archives and useful links:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CANbus
> > > Subscribe and unsubscribe at
> www.vector-informatik.com/canlist/
> > > Report any problems to
> > >
> > >
> > >

--
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Report any problems to <canlist-owner@...>

Re: CAN termination 120R power rating

2008-10-09T05:41:35Z

I forgot to mention Molex too has connectors with 120 ohm resistor embedded for NMEA2000 and Industry application.

Funny N.
Au Group Electronics, http://www.AuElectronics.com

--- On Thu, 10/9/08, Bertil Bäck <bertil.back@...> wrote:

From: Bertil Bäck <bertil.back@...>
Subject: Re: [CANLIST] CAN termination 120R power rating
To: canlist@...
Date: Thursday, October 9, 2008, 1:47 AM

Hi,
have now agreed with our customer to use 1W termination resistors. Then if they connect +36VDC to CAN hi or low it's a fault and the resistor are allowed to burn.

Would still be interesting to see how an large wire wound e.g. 7W resistor affects the network. If one can see reflection spikes.

Br,

Bertil BÄCK R&D Manager Hardware
T +358 6 357 6305, M +358 50 588 6895, F +358 6 357 6320
bertil.back@..., www.tke.fi

Funny NYPD wrote:

Deutsch actually have at least two type of connectors which has a 120 ohm terminal resistor inside.

Funny N.
Au Group Electronics, http://www.AuElectronics.com

--- On Wed, 10/8/08, John Dammeyer johnd@... wrote:

From: John Dammeyer johnd@...
Subject: RE: [CANLIST] CAN termination 120R power rating
To: canlist@...
Date: Wednesday, October 8, 2008, 12:28 PM

I'd be careful here.  Large power resistors are more often than not wound
and have an inductance.  You might also want to look at the polyfuse
capacitance.  There's no point in turning your transmission line into some
sort of resonant circuit that could cause all sorts of odd behaviours.

If rescuing the termination resistors is really important then put a
conventional fuse in series with it.  Or mount it above the board or for
that matter in a plug that terminates the end of the cable.  If it
 is
destroyed by 24V on the CAN bus then it's easy to repair without much cost
or issues.

I'd address though, how someone could put 24V on the cable in the first
place.  A simpler solution and more robust might be to add blocking diodes
(or a bridge) to the power supply input so that even if the polarity was
reversed, nothing bad happens.

John Dammeyer

Automation Artisans Inc.
http://www.autoartisans.com/ELS/
Ph. 1 250 544 4950


> -----Original Message-----
> From: canlist-owner@...
> [canlist-owner@...] On
> Behalf Of Bertil Bäck
> Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2008 1:06 AM
> To: canlist@...
> Subject: Re: [CANLIST] CAN termination 120R power rating
>
>
> Torsten Krahl wrote:
> > Hello Br,
> >>
 You should take in consideration a short circuit to
 the
> power train
> >> (14V or 27V?) to be sure that the resister want blow.
> >> The extreme but very rare case would be a short of one
> line to ground
> >> an the other line to the power train, but I normally exclude this
> >> case (leads to a >6W resistor on 27V
> > just want to add my experience with that ... the more often ( then
> > having a short of line to GND and 24V power ) is, that the customer
> > just connects the power to the wrong terminal block. That means you
> > have directly power supply ( 12V ... 24V ) on your CAN-lines - and
> > with switched on termination the "normal" resistor of 1,2W
> will blow.
> > This is what we see quite often in our daily business.
> >
> Ok, I will take this in consideration. The problem is that I
> have 5
 CAN
> channels om my PCB and there is no room for
 >6W resistors. One idea
> might be to add an SMD polyfuse in series with the resistor.
> Wonder how
> that would affect the bus termination?
>
> Br,
>
> Bertil BÄCK R&D Manager Hardware
> T +358 6 357 6305, M +358 50 588 6895, F +358 6 357 6320
> bertil.back@..., www.tke.fi
>
>
> > Mit freundlichen Gruessen
> > With best regards
> >
> > Torsten M. Krahl
> >
> >
> > --------------------------------
> > http://www.MicroControl.net
> > krahl@...
> >
> > Fon: +49 (0)2241 / 256 59 - 0
> > Fax: +49 (0)2241 / 256 59 - 11
> >
> > MicroControl GmbH & Co. KG
> > Lindlaustr. 2 c
> > 53842 Troisdorf, Germany
> >
> > Persönlich haftend:
> > MicroControl Systemhaus für Automatisierung
>
 Beteiligungsgesellschaft
> > mbH, Troisdorf
> >
> > HRB 4952 Siegburg (GmbH)  HRA 3110 Siegburg (KG)
> >
> > Geschäftsführer:
> > Dipl.-Ing. Uwe Koppe
> > Dipl.-Ing. (FH) Torsten Krahl
> > Dipl.-Ing. (FH) Frank Wielpütz
> >
> > Ust-IdNr. DE 812191199
> > --------------------------------
> >
> > --
> > Archives and useful links: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CANbus
> > Subscribe and unsubscribe at www.vector-informatik.com/canlist/
> > Report any problems to canlist-owner@...
> >
> --
> Archives and useful links: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CANbus
> Subscribe and unsubscribe at www.vector-informatik.com/canlist/
> Report any problems to canlist-owner@...
>
>

--
Archives and useful links:
 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CANbus
Subscribe and unsubscribe at www.vector-informatik.com/canlist/
Report any problems to canlist-owner@...

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RP1210

2008-10-09T04:54:11Z

I don't seem to get a lot of feedback on the RP 1210 issue. Nobody seems to have the original specs or being real interested in it.

Peter

Email von Peter Lauer plauer@...

> From: plauer@...

> To: canlist@...
> Subject: RE: SV: [CANLIST] RP1210
> Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2008 11:56:45 +0000
>
>
> I found that reference too, but it does not explain the individual commands. Why is the specification not on the web?
>
> Peter
>
>
> Email von Peter Lauerplauer@...
>
> ----------------------------------------
> > From: hakan.carlsson@...
> > To: plauer@...
> > Subject: SV: [CANLIST] RP1210
> > Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2008 08:42:07 +0200
> >
> > Hi Peter,
> >
> > I hope our web site can give you a quick start or not on this subject:
> >
> > http://www.kvaser.com/can/misc/rp1210/rp1210-a-b.htm
> >
> > ------
> > Best Regards,
> > Håkan Carlsson
> >
> > Switchboard: +46(0)31886344
> > Direct: +46(0)317061378 extension 387
> > Fax: +46(0)31886343
> > Work cell: +46(0)702403910
> > E-mail: hakan.carlsson@...
> > SkypeID: carlsson121
> > Postal address: Kvaser AB, Aminogatan 25A, SE43153 Mölndal, Sweden
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Ursprungligt meddelande-----
> > Från: canlist-owner@...
> > [mailto:canlist-owner@...] För Peter Lauer
> > Skickat: den 8 oktober 2008 04:48
> > Till: canlist@...
> > Ämne: [CANLIST] RP1210
> >
> >
> > where can I find a copy of the RP1210 spec / api description?
> >
> > regards
> >
> > Peter--
> > Archives and useful links: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CANbus
> > Subscribe and unsubscribe at www.vector-informatik.com/canlist/
> > Report any problems to
> >
> >
> >

Re: CAN termination 120R power rating

2008-10-08T22:47:46Z

Bertil BÄCK R&D Manager Hardware
T +358 6 357 6305, M +358 50 588 6895, F +358 6 357 6320
bertil.back@..., www.tke.fi

Funny NYPD wrote:

From: John Dammeyer johnd@...
Subject: RE: [CANLIST] CAN termination 120R power rating
To: canlist@...
Date: Wednesday, October 8, 2008, 12:28 PM

I'd be careful here.  Large power resistors are more often than not wound
and have an inductance.  You might also want to look at the polyfuse
capacitance.  There's no point in turning your transmission line into some
sort of resonant circuit that could cause all sorts of odd behaviours.

If rescuing the termination resistors is really important then put a
conventional fuse in series with it.  Or mount it above the board or for
that matter in a plug that terminates the end of the cable.  If it
 is
destroyed by 24V on the CAN bus then it's easy to repair without much cost
or issues.

I'd address though, how someone could put 24V on the cable in the first
place.  A simpler solution and more robust might be to add blocking diodes
(or a bridge) to the power supply input so that even if the polarity was
reversed, nothing bad happens.

John Dammeyer

Automation Artisans Inc.
http://www.autoartisans.com/ELS/
Ph. 1 250 544 4950


> -----Original Message-----
> From: canlist-owner@...
> [canlist-owner@...] On
> Behalf Of Bertil Bäck
> Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2008 1:06 AM
> To: canlist@...
> Subject: Re: [CANLIST] CAN termination 120R power rating
>
>
> Torsten Krahl wrote:
> > Hello Br,
> >> You should take in consideration a short circuit to
 the
> power train
> >> (14V or 27V?) to be sure that the resister want blow.
> >> The extreme but very rare case would be a short of one
> line to ground
> >> an the other line to the power train, but I normally exclude this
> >> case (leads to a >6W resistor on 27V
> > just want to add my experience with that ... the more often ( then
> > having a short of line to GND and 24V power ) is, that the customer
> > just connects the power to the wrong terminal block. That means you
> > have directly power supply ( 12V ... 24V ) on your CAN-lines - and
> > with switched on termination the "normal" resistor of 1,2W
> will blow.
> > This is what we see quite often in our daily business.
> >
> Ok, I will take this in consideration. The problem is that I
> have 5 CAN
> channels om my PCB and there is no room for
 >6W resistors. One idea
> might be to add an SMD polyfuse in series with the resistor.
> Wonder how
> that would affect the bus termination?
>
> Br,
>
> Bertil BÄCK R&D Manager Hardware
> T +358 6 357 6305, M +358 50 588 6895, F +358 6 357 6320
> bertil.back@..., www.tke.fi
>
>
> > Mit freundlichen Gruessen
> > With best regards
> >
> > Torsten M. Krahl
> >
> >
> > --------------------------------
> > http://www.MicroControl.net
> > krahl@...
> >
> > Fon: +49 (0)2241 / 256 59 - 0
> > Fax: +49 (0)2241 / 256 59 - 11
> >
> > MicroControl GmbH & Co. KG
> > Lindlaustr. 2 c
> > 53842 Troisdorf, Germany
> >
> > Persönlich haftend:
> > MicroControl Systemhaus für Automatisierung
>
 Beteiligungsgesellschaft
> > mbH, Troisdorf
> >
> > HRB 4952 Siegburg (GmbH)  HRA 3110 Siegburg (KG)
> >
> > Geschäftsführer:
> > Dipl.-Ing. Uwe Koppe
> > Dipl.-Ing. (FH) Torsten Krahl
> > Dipl.-Ing. (FH) Frank Wielpütz
> >
> > Ust-IdNr. DE 812191199
> > --------------------------------
> >
> > --
> > Archives and useful links: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CANbus
> > Subscribe and unsubscribe at www.vector-informatik.com/canlist/
> > Report any problems to canlist-owner@...
> >
> --
> Archives and useful links: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CANbus
> Subscribe and unsubscribe at www.vector-informatik.com/canlist/
> Report any problems to canlist-owner@...
>
>

--
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 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CANbus
Subscribe and unsubscribe at www.vector-informatik.com/canlist/
Report any problems to canlist-owner@...

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