Blackening your camera guts....

[Frank Filippone]

Many of the cameras we use today are up to 100 years old.  A lot of the interior black has worn off, been scraped, or otherwise
lost.  I have found 2 details about the black that was used...

First off, the original black on my 50-60's vintage B+J is not paint.  It is a simple black dye.  I replicated the finish and color
by diluting black dye in alcohol.  Worked like a charm.  Messy? You bet!

Second, for touch up work, use a Marks-a-Lot permanent marker or a Black Sharpie.  They also worked well, but the dye worked better,
blacker, and a lot messier.

Just some tidbits for those of us trying to restore or improve our cameras.

Frank Filippone
red735i@...




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[Wilkes, Don LCS:EX]

> First off, the original black on my 50-60's vintage B+J is
> not paint.  It is a simple black dye.  I replicated the
> finish and color by diluting black dye in alcohol.  Worked
> like a charm.  Messy? You bet!

Frank:  Thanks for the tips.  Are you retouching interior metal, wood,
or what?  Also, what kind of dye are you using, and what dilution?  Some
general guidelines would probably help a bunch.  I wonder if this
technique would work on one of my banged up film holders, as there are
some dots of missing pain on the inside of it.  A Sharpie would probably
be easier, though (and less messy <g>).

\donw


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[Richard Knoppow]

----- Original Message -----
From: "Frank Filippone" <red735i@...>
To: "Largeformatf32. Net" <largeformat@...>;
<pure-silver-bounce@...>
Sent: Tuesday, July 18, 2006 3:25 PM
Subject: [LargeFormat] Blackening your camera guts....

> Many of the cameras we use today are up to 100 years old.
> A lot of the interior black has worn off, been scraped, or
> otherwise
> lost.  I have found 2 details about the black that was
> used...
>
> First off, the original black on my 50-60's vintage B+J is
> not paint.  It is a simple black dye.  I replicated the
> finish and color
> by diluting black dye in alcohol.  Worked like a charm.
> Messy? You bet!
>
> Second, for touch up work, use a Marks-a-Lot permanent
> marker or a Black Sharpie.  They also worked well, but the
> dye worked better,
> blacker, and a lot messier.
>
> Just some tidbits for those of us trying to restore or
> improve our cameras.
>
> Frank Filippone
> red735i@...
>

   One can get flocced paper from several sources.
   The best absorbent paint is Krylon Ultra-Flat Black,
which can be found in hardware and paint stores. For small
areas spray some into a small container and apply it with a
brush. Its also good for the interior surfaces of lens
shades, etc.
   Your black dye idea is probably the answer to lens edge
paint where clearances are too small for the Krylon or
similar paint.

---
Richard Knoppow
Los Angeles, CA, USA
dickburk@...




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[Frank Filippone]

The method I described is very messy.  Dye does not come off..... ie, do NOT try this in the Living Room on the nice fancy rugs or
over the dining room table.....  It is an outdoor project, away from the house... I used the grass as a backstop.  It got on my
hands, and stayed there.  Good thing skin rubs off, and underneath areas are OK.

The alcohol mix was about 4 oz of alcohol to about a half teaspoon of Aniline Dye.  Applied by ( cheapo) paint brush.  You could use
less.  The Dye comes from places like Woodcraft ( www.woodcraft.com ).

It was used on the WOODEN parts of the camera.  Not the metallic parts.  For metal, I recommend the sharpie type markers.

Frank Filippone
red735i@...


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[Frank Filippone]

The 11x14 B+J I am working on has holes in the red  bellows corners.  Otherwise it is in pretty good shape.

Since more or less all the corners need repair, and the bellows is around 30+ inches long, and the bellows has 4 corners, there is a
LOT of bellows to fix, especially if I try one corner at a time.

I remember using a type of tape to run along the bellows corners and fix the bellows pretty efficiently.  It added to the bulk of
the bellow corners ( will not fold as well ) but I do not care.  I need to get these fixed cheap.

( If I stick with the format, I can always get  a new set from England... so in the long run, I have a good fix.)

Does anyone remember trying this solution?  Comments on materials that worked?

Frank Filippone
red735i@...


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[Steve Nicholls]

Frank Filippone wrote:

> The method I described is very messy.  Dye does not come off..... ie, do NOT try this in the Living Room on the nice fancy rugs or
> over the dining room table.....  It is an outdoor project, away from the house... I used the grass as a backstop.  It got on my
> hands, and stayed there.  Good thing skin rubs off, and underneath areas are OK.
>
> The alcohol mix was about 4 oz of alcohol to about a half teaspoon of Aniline Dye.  Applied by ( cheapo) paint brush.  You could use
> less.  The Dye comes from places like Woodcraft ( www.woodcraft.com ).
>
> It was used on the WOODEN parts of the camera.  Not the metallic parts.  For metal, I recommend the sharpie type markers.
>
> Frank Filippone
> red735i@...
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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>  

A set of latex gloves and a supply of cotton wool balls and a "safe"
splash area will make for almost painless application.

I found a bottle of dye that would also do the same job with the title
"Raven Black" Mixed like Frank suggested will work fine.

Steve


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[Frank Filippone]

I do point out that if  you get the dye on any other camera part, the result will be ... black.....

Use a small brush, take of as much liquid as you can, and cover or tape over EVERYTHING you do not want to be black..... especially
the back side of what you are working on....

Frank Filippone
red735i@...


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[Karl Faller]

I use acrylic mars black (artist colors) applied with a small brush
after lacquering all other parts of the camera.
The advantage of mars black or any acrylic is that when applied it can
be rubbed off the lacquered surface with a damp cloth.

Also; ivory blk acrylic or for a more perminate, deeper blk use
Benjaman Moore semi-gloss acrylic.

I only use spray paint on primed metal parts.

The quality of painting is mostly in the preparation, especially when
using spray paints and lacquers.

...for what it's worth...
                     Karl

http;//woodencamera.net

> I do point out that if  you get the dye on any other camera part, the
> result will be ... black.....
>
> Use a small brush, take of as much liquid as you can, and cover or
> tape over EVERYTHING you do not want to be black..... especially
> the back side of what you are working on....
>
> Frank
> red735i@...
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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>
>

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[Jim Hemenway]

Gents:

I really like shooting with a fisheye lens and wanted to try a larger
format than 35mm and medium format, but couldn't find a lens which will
give me fisheye effects on large format.

So, with the encouragement of Glenn Barry, I built this with a lens that
I had in a drawer. <http://www.half-fast.com/Fisheye/4x5-Fisheye-L.jpg>

It's a 4x5 Fisheye camera with an 85mm image circle.

I used an old beat-up Speed Graphic which I stripped down to just the
box and the focal plane shutter.

Then I killed an ailing Kiev 60 to harvest its body parts.
<http://www.half-fast.com/Fisheye/Kiev60.jpg> to get a lens mount for
the 30mm fisheye lens which I then installed on a piece of wood which
fits tightly into the camera box.
<http://www.half-fast.com/Fisheye/4x5-FisheyeMount-L.jpg>

This is what it looks like from the side:
<http://www.half-fast.com/Fisheye/4x5-Fisheye-side.jpg>

Here's some of the first photos from the week before last:
<http://www.half-fast.com/Fisheye/Photos/BackPorch-with-Ears-Ektachrome.jpg>
<http://www.half-fast.com/Fisheye/Photos/FrontYard-Right-with-Ears-Ektchrome.jpg>

You can see that the "ears" of the built-in lens hood, interfere with
the 180 degree sweep of this lens when used with this "camera".

So I used a pair of tin snips to remove them:
<http://www.half-fast.com/Fisheye/Fisheye.jpg>

These photos are from this past week without those pesky "ears":
<http://www.half-fast.com/Fisheye/Photos/FrontYard-Right-Ektachrome.jpg>
<http://www.half-fast.com/Fisheye/Photos/BackPorch-Ektachrome.jpg>
<http://www.half-fast.com/Fisheye/Photos/TwistedTree-Polaroid.jpg>

I had forgotten just how much "real estate" is seen at 180 degrees, so
this is me, not part of the lens hood at the top:
<http://www.half-fast.com/Fisheye/Photos/TwistedTreeandMe-Polarod.jpg>

I've just received a Graflok bought on ebay to replace the decrepit
existing spring back. I've already installed it and now I don't have to
use heavy duty rubber bands with the Polaroid back.

Now I have to do some shooting with it to determine how to get the best
photos out of it, versus a square or rectangular fisheye format.  Maybe
someting like this:
<http://www.half-fast.com/Fisheye/Photos/AtTacoBob's-Polaroid.jpg>


OKAY, now for the QUESTION:

Does anyone know if these Sinar reflex viewers will work with the
Graflok back?

Ebay item number: 260009882357

Jim




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[michael-82]

Besides the Kiev fisheye lens, what other (medium format) lenses are
available that "could" be used to mate with a large format back? For
example, the Pentax 67 35mm fisheye could be made to work *IF* it were mated
to a shutter somehow.

Do you have a list? and what are their respective image circles?

J Michael Sullivan

 

 


Jim Hemenway writes:

> Gents:
> Then I killed an ailing Kiev 60 to harvest its body parts.
 

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[ARLETTE DESRANLEAU]

Mamiya still has a 37mm 4.5 fisheye for the mechanical RB (no electronic
linkages . . . levers, widgets, and whatsitz only). I used two RB's for
years after dumping h'blad . . . Mamiya's equipment, lenses included, are
fantastic.

good luck

Paul Aparycki


> Besides the Kiev fisheye lens, what other (medium format) lenses are
> available that "could" be used to mate with a large format back? For
> example, the Pentax 67 35mm fisheye could be made to work *IF* it were
> mated to a shutter somehow.
> Do you have a list? and what are their respective image circles?
> J Michael Sullivan


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[michael-82]

Thanx for the reminder Paul.
I agree on the quality of Mamiya lenses -- my Mamiya 7II is razor sharp.

So how different is the RZ67 37mm fisheye from the RB67 version?
I assume it has some electronics like the 7II and the 645?

J Michael Sullivan
Editor/Publisher, MAGNAchrom

 

Paul Aparycki writes:

> Mamiya still has a 37mm 4.5 fisheye for the mechanical RB (no electronic
> linkages . . . levers, widgets, and whatsitz only). I used two RB's for
> years after dumping h'blad . . . Mamiya's equipment, lenses included, are
> fantastic.
 

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[Jim Hemenway]

Michael:

Since the Pentax covers 6x7 instead of just 6x6cm, it should provide a
larger image circle.

How big?  I don't know, and I don't have a list or other information.

I used the Graflex body and focal plane shutter as it was the easiest
and least expensive solution.  I know of one person who mated their
Arsat with a Copal 3, and another who built his camera with a
self-cocking Alphax shutter inside, behind the back of a Pentax 67 lens,
and actuated by a light tight cable release.

Jim

michael@... wrote:

> Besides the Kiev fisheye lens, what other (medium format) lenses are
> available that "could" be used to mate with a large format back? For
> example, the Pentax 67 35mm fisheye could be made to work *IF* it were
> mated to a shutter somehow.
> Do you have a list? and what are their respective image circles?
> J Michael Sullivan
>
>
>
>
>
> Jim Hemenway writes:
>
>> Gents:
>> Then I killed an ailing Kiev 60 to harvest its body parts.
>
>

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[ARLETTE DESRANLEAU]

I would assume the lenses optically are identical. Electrically, I don't
know . . . I would think that there would be contacts on the RZ model. I
would inquire with a good repair tech (large market . . . New York?
Chicago?). If you ask directly to Mamiya whilst informing them of the
upcoming beheading/castration or whatever you want to call it, they might
kind of just shut up, not willing to "commit" themselves to something that
is outside of their intended uses for their equipment. I have had the
"suddenly dumb syndrome" happen a few times (notably with Nikon Canada).

good luck

Paul Aparycki

> So how different is the RZ67 37mm fisheye from the RB67 version?
> I assume it has some electronics like the 7II and the 645?
> J Michael Sullivan
> Editor/Publisher, MAGNAchrom


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