Big shops not taking "credit cards"

[Tomás Ó hÉilidhe-3]

There's two very big supermarket stores here in Ireland, they're called
Lidl and Aldi, and they have rock-bottom prices. They have stores all
over the country.

Neither of these stores accept Mastercard or VISA... and my only guess
is that they're not willing to put up with the transaction costs. Is it
really that expensive to accept Mastercard or VISA? I had thought that
the cost was very low, something like half a percentage. Strangely
enough, it's very hard to find info about this on the net; I've tried
googling it but haven't found a definitive figure.

I myself got a VISA card recently and I find it great for buying stuff
online and over the phone. It's not a credit card however; it takes the
money straight from my bank account, but the transaction goes through
the VISA card system so every merchant thinks it's a credit card. (VISA
actually has nothing to do with credit cards, it's merely a way of
paying for something, so the funds can come from anywhere).

When I'm buying stuff online, I usually say to the seller that I'll pay
directly with "credit card" if they want me to, reason being that PayPal
takes a ridiculously large cut (it costs 517 Euro to send 500 Euro). I
hadn't considered that the fee for "credit cards" would be high also (I
figured it might cost 501 Euro to send 500 Euro).



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[Carl Denk]

Here in Northern Ohio (USA) we also have ALDI, and the don't take
plastic money or personal checks either. :)

Tomás Ó hÉilidhe wrote:

> There's two very big supermarket stores here in Ireland, they're called
> Lidl and Aldi, and they have rock-bottom prices. They have stores all
> over the country.
>
> Neither of these stores accept Mastercard or VISA... and my only guess
> is that they're not willing to put up with the transaction costs. Is it
> really that expensive to accept Mastercard or VISA? I had thought that
> the cost was very low, something like half a percentage. Strangely
> enough, it's very hard to find info about this on the net; I've tried
> googling it but haven't found a definitive figure.
>
> I myself got a VISA card recently and I find it great for buying stuff
> online and over the phone. It's not a credit card however; it takes the
> money straight from my bank account, but the transaction goes through
> the VISA card system so every merchant thinks it's a credit card. (VISA
> actually has nothing to do with credit cards, it's merely a way of
> paying for something, so the funds can come from anywhere).
>
> When I'm buying stuff online, I usually say to the seller that I'll pay
> directly with "credit card" if they want me to, reason being that PayPal
> takes a ridiculously large cut (it costs 517 Euro to send 500 Euro). I
> hadn't considered that the fee for "credit cards" would be high also (I
> figured it might cost 501 Euro to send 500 Euro).
>
>
>
>  

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[Peter Loron]

Yes, the fees charged by the credit card companies are significant.  
Businesses accept them because they feel customers will shop elsewhere  
if they don't accept charge cards for payment.

Personally, I find it highly annoying when I shop somewhere that  
doesn't take "plastic". I almost never carry any significant cash on  
me unless I know I'm going somewhere that I'll need it.

-Pete

On Aug 27, 2008, at 4:07 PM, Tomás Ó hÉilidhe wrote:

>
>
> There's two very big supermarket stores here in Ireland, they're  
> called
> Lidl and Aldi, and they have rock-bottom prices. They have stores all
> over the country.
>
> Neither of these stores accept Mastercard or VISA... and my only guess
> is that they're not willing to put up with the transaction costs. Is  
> it
> really that expensive to accept Mastercard or VISA? I had thought that
> the cost was very low, something like half a percentage. Strangely
> enough, it's very hard to find info about this on the net; I've tried
> googling it but haven't found a definitive figure.
>
> I myself got a VISA card recently and I find it great for buying stuff
> online and over the phone. It's not a credit card however; it takes  
> the
> money straight from my bank account, but the transaction goes through
> the VISA card system so every merchant thinks it's a credit card.  
> (VISA
> actually has nothing to do with credit cards, it's merely a way of
> paying for something, so the funds can come from anywhere).
>
> When I'm buying stuff online, I usually say to the seller that I'll  
> pay
> directly with "credit card" if they want me to, reason being that  
> PayPal
> takes a ridiculously large cut (it costs 517 Euro to send 500 Euro). I
> hadn't considered that the fee for "credit cards" would be high also  
> (I
> figured it might cost 501 Euro to send 500 Euro).
>
>
>
> --
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> View/change your membership options at
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[Funny N.]

There are Aldi here in USA too, not so "big" though. I was told it's a Germany company (still not so sure and don't care).
The type of VISA card you are using is named Debit card here in the USA. I got many Debit cards but never use one. Credit card and Personal check are good enough for most of the situation here in the US.

 Funny N.
Au Group Electronics, New Bedford, MA, http://www.AuElectronics.com



----- Original Message ----
From: Tomás Ó hÉilidhe <toe_list@...>
To: Microcontroller discussion list - Public. <piclist@...>
Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2008 7:07:47 PM
Subject: [OT] Big shops not taking "credit cards"



There's two very big supermarket stores here in Ireland, they're called
Lidl and Aldi, and they have rock-bottom prices. They have stores all
over the country.

Neither of these stores accept Mastercard or VISA... and my only guess
is that they're not willing to put up with the transaction costs. Is it
really that expensive to accept Mastercard or VISA? I had thought that
the cost was very low, something like half a percentage. Strangely
enough, it's very hard to find info about this on the net; I've tried
googling it but haven't found a definitive figure.

I myself got a VISA card recently and I find it great for buying stuff
online and over the phone. It's not a credit card however; it takes the
money straight from my bank account, but the transaction goes through
the VISA card system so every merchant thinks it's a credit card. (VISA
actually has nothing to do with credit cards, it's merely a way of
paying for something, so the funds can come from anywhere).

When I'm buying stuff online, I usually say to the seller that I'll pay
directly with "credit card" if they want me to, reason being that PayPal
takes a ridiculously large cut (it costs 517 Euro to send 500 Euro). I
hadn't considered that the fee for "credit cards" would be high also (I
figured it might cost 501 Euro to send 500 Euro).



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[gavin-egan.com]

Depending upon your throughput of monies the rate can vary that the
creditcard companies charge

Large organizations probably do get charged a very small amount as they are
putting through millions

However when I looked at it as a small business it would have been around
the same costs as paypal (although incidentally slightly safer than paypal
due to paypals dictorial methods of removing money from your account) and
that was around 3-4%

A friend of mine who used to own a video game shop had a 5% margin on games
machines which almost completely was swallowed up when people paid via card.
So although he had no choice but to buy these units and sell them on to
enhance his games business - it wasn't a loss leader but bloody close to it.

But I would suspect - with all the costs of the computers / comms / possible
fraud and charges to boot - the lidl et al have just made the assumption
that if you want cheap goods you are going to get the cash out of the cash
machine and buy their stuff and they wont have to stump up for it !

Lets be honest, when I was in the UK - Lidl and Aldi only put their
supermarkets in locations that were less affluent and where people would go
them as opposed to an expensive one like tescos or sainsburys simply because
of their extraordinary cost savings over brand purchasing. Theoretically
then - a less affluent neighborhood is more likely to suffer from higher
fraud activity (without predjudice) simply because of the nature of the
demographic. So it makes perfect sense to eliminate that problem by not
accepting cards.

Cheers

Chris

-----Original Message-----
From: piclist-bounces@... [mailto:piclist-bounces@...] On Behalf Of
Peter Loron
Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2008 12:47 PM
To: Microcontroller discussion list - Public.
Subject: Re: [OT] Big shops not taking "credit cards"

Yes, the fees charged by the credit card companies are significant.  
Businesses accept them because they feel customers will shop elsewhere  
if they don't accept charge cards for payment.

Personally, I find it highly annoying when I shop somewhere that  
doesn't take "plastic". I almost never carry any significant cash on  
me unless I know I'm going somewhere that I'll need it.

-Pete

On Aug 27, 2008, at 4:07 PM, Tomás Ó hÉilidhe wrote:

>
>
> There's two very big supermarket stores here in Ireland, they're  
> called
> Lidl and Aldi, and they have rock-bottom prices. They have stores all
> over the country.
>
> Neither of these stores accept Mastercard or VISA... and my only guess
> is that they're not willing to put up with the transaction costs. Is  
> it
> really that expensive to accept Mastercard or VISA? I had thought that
> the cost was very low, something like half a percentage. Strangely
> enough, it's very hard to find info about this on the net; I've tried
> googling it but haven't found a definitive figure.
>
> I myself got a VISA card recently and I find it great for buying stuff
> online and over the phone. It's not a credit card however; it takes  
> the
> money straight from my bank account, but the transaction goes through
> the VISA card system so every merchant thinks it's a credit card.  
> (VISA
> actually has nothing to do with credit cards, it's merely a way of
> paying for something, so the funds can come from anywhere).
>
> When I'm buying stuff online, I usually say to the seller that I'll  
> pay
> directly with "credit card" if they want me to, reason being that  
> PayPal
> takes a ridiculously large cut (it costs 517 Euro to send 500 Euro). I
> hadn't considered that the fee for "credit cards" would be high also  
> (I
> figured it might cost 501 Euro to send 500 Euro).
>
>
>
> --
> http://www.piclist.com PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
> View/change your membership options at
> http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist

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[Herbert Graf-2]

On Thu, 2008-08-28 at 00:07 +0100, Tomás Ó hÉilidhe wrote:
>
> There's two very big supermarket stores here in Ireland, they're called
> Lidl and Aldi, and they have rock-bottom prices. They have stores all
> over the country.
>
> Neither of these stores accept Mastercard or VISA... and my only guess
> is that they're not willing to put up with the transaction costs. Is it
> really that expensive to accept Mastercard or VISA? I had thought that

Bingo.

Up until perhaps the past decade none of the grocery stores accepted
VISA/MC in Canada, these days pretty much all do.

I don't know what the rates are for the "big guys", but I know small
business rates hover around the 2.5% range for VISA, I'd assume MC is
close to that number.

I doesn't sound like much, but when your margins are razor thin, 2% can
be a painful part of your profit to loose.

TTYL

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[Tomás Ó hÉilidhe-3]

Herbert Graf wrote:
> I doesn't sound like much, but when your margins are razor thin, 2% can
> be a painful part of your profit to loose.


The 2% doesn't seem small at all if you're missing out on 10 Euro when
you're receiving 500 Euro! Don't even get me started on PayPal's 17 Euro :-O

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[Dario Greggio (in giro)]

for the records, LIDL Italy does take Credit cards
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[Apptech]

>> I doesn't sound like much, but when your margins are
>> razor thin, 2% can
>> be a painful part of your profit to loose.

> The 2% doesn't seem small at all if you're missing out on
> 10 Euro when
> you're receiving 500 Euro! Don't even get me started on
> PayPal's 17 Euro :-O

Bank transfers tend to be at a fixed amount AFAIK whereas I
believe Paypal charge a percentage. The former can be
iniquitous for small amounts and the latter is iniquitous
for most amounts. There is no reason apart from "because we
can, and people are stupid enough to use us" for people to
charge a percentage for moving money around at your risk wrt
exchange rates etc. Even the exchange rate calculations
allow them a margin.

If changing money NEVER do it in an airport or similar.
Anything that advertises itself as a money exchange,
especially if it does so in French (country irrespective)
should be shunned like the plague. The small dealers just
outside will almost always offer you a superior rate.


        Russell


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[Funny N.]

paypal takes higher rate and so does Google checkout.
For small business here in USA, you don't really have many other choices.

 Funny N.
Au Group Electronics, New Bedford, MA, http://www.AuElectronics.com



----- Original Message ----
From: Tomás Ó hÉilidhe <toe_list@...>
To: Microcontroller discussion list - Public. <piclist@...>
Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2008 7:39:20 AM
Subject: Re: [OT] Big shops not taking "credit cards"

Herbert Graf wrote:
> I doesn't sound like much, but when your margins are razor thin, 2% can
> be a painful part of your profit to loose.


The 2% doesn't seem small at all if you're missing out on 10 Euro when
you're receiving 500 Euro! Don't even get me started on PayPal's 17 Euro :-O

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[Spehro Pefhany-2]

Quoting Apptech <apptech@...>:

>>> I doesn't sound like much, but when your margins are
>>> razor thin, 2% can
>>> be a painful part of your profit to loose.
>
>> The 2% doesn't seem small at all if you're missing out on
>> 10 Euro when
>> you're receiving 500 Euro! Don't even get me started on
>> PayPal's 17 Euro :-O
>
> Bank transfers tend to be at a fixed amount AFAIK whereas I
> believe Paypal charge a percentage. The former can be
> iniquitous for small amounts and the latter is iniquitous
> for most amounts. There is no reason apart from "because we
> can, and people are stupid enough to use us" for people to
> charge a percentage for moving money around at your risk wrt
> exchange rates etc. Even the exchange rate calculations
> allow them a margin.
>
> If changing money NEVER do it in an airport or similar.

With all due respect, that's nonsense, Russel, I almost always do it  
in an airport. I walk up to the ATM machine and withdraw cash in the  
local
currency, then snicker at the folks paying a fortune at
the 'Cambio" booths.

> Anything that advertises itself as a money exchange,
> especially if it does so in French (country irrespective)
> should be shunned like the plague. The small dealers just
> outside will almost always offer you a superior rate.
>
>
>         Russell
>
>
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Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany, Gedex Inc.



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[Dario Greggio (in giro)]

Spehro Pefhany wrote:

>>If changing money NEVER do it in an airport or similar.
>
>
> With all due respect, that's nonsense, Russel, I almost always do it  
> in an airport. I walk up to the ATM machine and withdraw cash in the  
> local
> currency, then snicker at the folks paying a fortune at
> the 'Cambio" booths.

well, of course I assume Russell was talking about Internal Booths and
NOT ATM - same experience as mine, both with "booths" and "ATM" !

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[Apptech]

>> If changing money NEVER do it in an airport or similar.

> With all due respect, that's nonsense, Russel, I almost
> always do it
> in an airport. I walk up to the ATM machine and withdraw
> cash in the
> local
> currency, then snicker at the folks paying a fortune at
> the 'Cambio" booths.

I said *changing*, not withdrawing. I meant cash for cash.
The statement did indeed allow of a degree of interpretation
:-). For withdrawls I use VISA and a preloaded account.


        Russell


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[Herbert Graf-2]

On Fri, 2008-08-29 at 02:07 +1200, Apptech wrote:

> Bank transfers tend to be at a fixed amount AFAIK whereas I
> believe Paypal charge a percentage. The former can be
> iniquitous for small amounts and the latter is iniquitous
> for most amounts. There is no reason apart from "because we
> can, and people are stupid enough to use us" for people to
> charge a percentage for moving money around at your risk wrt
> exchange rates etc. Even the exchange rate calculations
> allow them a margin.
>
> If changing money NEVER do it in an airport or similar.
> Anything that advertises itself as a money exchange,
> especially if it does so in French (country irrespective)
> should be shunned like the plague. The small dealers just
> outside will almost always offer you a superior rate.

Good advice, although what I do is I have the money in hand before I
ever enter the country.

Most banks have major currencies on hand. If they don't they can order
it, which only takes a few days. I've never had problems getting Euros
or British Pounds here in Canada. As for USD, my bank actually has bank
machines that will dispense USD!

TTYL

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[Spehro Pefhany]

Quoting Herbert Graf <mailinglist4@...>:

> On Fri, 2008-08-29 at 02:07 +1200, Apptech wrote:
>> Bank transfers tend to be at a fixed amount AFAIK whereas I
>> believe Paypal charge a percentage. The former can be
>> iniquitous for small amounts and the latter is iniquitous
>> for most amounts. There is no reason apart from "because we
>> can, and people are stupid enough to use us" for people to
>> charge a percentage for moving money around at your risk wrt
>> exchange rates etc. Even the exchange rate calculations
>> allow them a margin.
>>
>> If changing money NEVER do it in an airport or similar.
>> Anything that advertises itself as a money exchange,
>> especially if it does so in French (country irrespective)
>> should be shunned like the plague. The small dealers just
>> outside will almost always offer you a superior rate.
>
> Good advice, although what I do is I have the money in hand before I
> ever enter the country.
>
> Most banks have major currencies on hand. If they don't they can order
> it, which only takes a few days. I've never had problems getting Euros
> or British Pounds here in Canada. As for USD, my bank actually has bank
> machines that will dispense USD!

Years ago I used to do that, but these days I don't bother. I usually
have a bit of cash in USD or Euros secreted away (certainly more than enough
to get to my initial destination) but have not needed it yet. Every time
you convert it eats 2-3% so it's best to minimize exchanges unless you're
convinced the currency is depreciating.

Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..."                          "The Journey is the reward"
s...@...             Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog  Info for designers:  http://www.speff.com


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[Spehro Pefhany]

Quoting Funny NYPD <funnynypd@...>:

> paypal takes higher rate and so does Google checkout.
> For small business here in USA, you don't really have many other choices.
>
>  Funny N.
> Au Group Electronics, New Bedford, MA, http://www.AuElectronics.com

What about Costco merchant accounts? About 2% for internet and 1.65% for
card swipe transactions. But watch the extra fees and transaction  
charges with merchant accounts.

>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Tomás Ó hÉilidhe <toe_list@...>
> To: Microcontroller discussion list - Public. <piclist@...>
> Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2008 7:39:20 AM
> Subject: Re: [OT] Big shops not taking "credit cards"
>
> Herbert Graf wrote:
>> I doesn't sound like much, but when your margins are razor thin, 2% can
>> be a painful part of your profit to loose.
>
>
> The 2% doesn't seem small at all if you're missing out on 10 Euro when
> you're receiving 500 Euro! Don't even get me started on PayPal's 17 Euro :-O
>
> --
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>
>
>
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Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..."                          "The Journey is the reward"
s...@...             Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog  Info for designers:  http://www.speff.com


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[Carl Denk]

Back in 1989, had an American Express card (when you had to pay a
monthly fee for the card), ordered a Ford Bronco full size SUV from
small town dealer. Vehicle came in early, money source delayed, called
American Express had credit limit raised to $9000 (very high back then),
called car salesman, Ok to put $8000 on card. When taking delivery,
handed salesman card, Dealer owner came over, said, knew card was good,
but with card fee and being a Ford employee price with little profit, he
would carry the $8000 for 2 weeks until money came in. No paper work,
just verbal. Don't think I could do that today. :)

Tomás Ó hÉilidhe wrote:

> Herbert Graf wrote:
>  
>> I doesn't sound like much, but when your margins are razor thin, 2% can
>> be a painful part of your profit to loose.
>>    
>
>
> The 2% doesn't seem small at all if you're missing out on 10 Euro when
> you're receiving 500 Euro! Don't even get me started on PayPal's 17 Euro :-O
>
>  

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