Best theme for 1.9.11

[Javier Arantegui-3]

Hi!

I know that there is not such thing as a best theme for everybody, but some
themes are better than others.

I would like to know what is the best available theme for the lastest version
of Tikiwiki. It should be pleasant and provide a great experience for new
users.

I like Neat, but I found that it's really confusing for new users. Most of the
users of my website are newbies, let's say that they are web 1.0 users. They
know how to find something in Google or use the email but they don't know
what a wiki is, for example.

So, to make the site more usable I would like to change the theme. Later, I
could try to customize it a little bit or not.

Thanks,

Javier


--
Javier Arántegui
Dept. Tecnologia de Alimentos / Dept. of Food Technology
Universitat de Lleida / University of Lleida (Spain)
         
Tel. [phone]
Fax  [phone]
IM: Jabber - javier.arantegui (AT) jabberes.org
http://www.tecal.udl.es

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[gary_c]

TikiWiki's themes generally only vary in terms of background and border
coloring and font size, and don't actually change functionality. So new
users will have basically the same experience no matter which theme is
used (apart from text legibility differences, etc.).

You can see from http://support.mozilla.com/ that TikiWiki's interface
can be modified to suit the audience and task, but it's hard to maintain
customized file versions when the core files are continuously being
modified and improved, so there aren't many (any?) customized (for a
simpler interface, for example) themes around, as far as I know.

You can check http://themes.tikiwiki.org to compare the included themes
and find some additional themes to upload to your server and use. Beyond
that, simplifying the experience for new users probably depends on how
you configure your site. You could turn off as many features and
functions as possible, for example, to reduce clutter and ease new users
into the experience.

-- Gary

Javier Arantegui wrote:

> Hi!
>
> I know that there is not such thing as a best theme for everybody, but some
> themes are better than others.
>
> I would like to know what is the best available theme for the lastest version
> of Tikiwiki. It should be pleasant and provide a great experience for new
> users.
>
> I like Neat, but I found that it's really confusing for new users. Most of the
> users of my website are newbies, let's say that they are web 1.0 users. They
> know how to find something in Google or use the email but they don't know
> what a wiki is, for example.
>
> So, to make the site more usable I would like to change the theme. Later, I
> could try to customize it a little bit or not.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Javier
>
>

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[Javier Arantegui-3]

Hi!

El Jueves, 15 de May de 2008, Gary Cunningham-Lee escribió:
> TikiWiki's themes generally only vary in terms of background and border
> coloring and font size, and don't actually change functionality. So new
> users will have basically the same experience no matter which theme is
> used (apart from text legibility differences, etc.).

I understand that Tikiwiki's themes don't change functionality, but I think
that they can change the user experience a lot. For example, in Neat theme
many users don't notice that when you click on the three little squares in
the Menu box, you get more options. That reduces the experience a lot for
those users, it's a usability problem. I wonder if any usability test has
been performed.

I'd prefer to avoid theme customisation because I won't have the time and the
will to maintain it in new releases.

Javier


--
Javier Arántegui
Dept. Tecnologia de Alimentos / Dept. of Food Technology
Universitat de Lleida / University of Lleida (Spain)
         
Tel. [phone]
Fax  [phone]
IM: Jabber - javier.arantegui (AT) jabberes.org
http://www.tecal.udl.es

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[gary_c]

I see what you mean; I had forgotten about the variations in menu icons,
etc.

In my opinion quite a few of the current TikiWiki themes have usability
and accessibility problems. One thing we are trying to do for TikiWiki
1.10 is reduce the number of included themes (to ease maintenance
problems) and improve the quality of those that are included, along with
providing documentation on customizing/personalizing and helping people
find additional themes that will be available.

Any comments on what a theme should have or shouldn't have, or what
people would like to see (or not see) in a TikiWiki theme, and so on,
would be appreciated.

-- Gary


Javier Arantegui wrote:

> Hi!
>
> El Jueves, 15 de May de 2008, Gary Cunningham-Lee escribió:
>> TikiWiki's themes generally only vary in terms of background and border
>> coloring and font size, and don't actually change functionality. So new
>> users will have basically the same experience no matter which theme is
>> used (apart from text legibility differences, etc.).
>
> I understand that Tikiwiki's themes don't change functionality, but I think
> that they can change the user experience a lot. For example, in Neat theme
> many users don't notice that when you click on the three little squares in
> the Menu box, you get more options. That reduces the experience a lot for
> those users, it's a usability problem. I wonder if any usability test has
> been performed.
>
> I'd prefer to avoid theme customisation because I won't have the time and the
> will to maintain it in new releases.
>
> Javier
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG.
> Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 269.23.16/1433 - Release Date: 2008/05/14 16:44

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[Xavier de Pedro Puente-2]

Hi Javier:

I agree with you: All new users from my sites have problems with the
same issue of the left hand-side icon of each menu header.

In 1.9.x, you can try with phplayer menus, instead of with basic menu

In 1.10 you will be able to try playing with suckerfish menus which will
be easier.
http://doc.tikiwiki.org/Menus

For the rest, I agree with Gary: most usability issues wouldn't be much
different among theme styles, I would say, but through
enabling/disabling features, columns, links, etc.

Cheers, and welcome back, Javier! :-)

Xavi

En/na Javier Arantegui ha escrit:

> Hi!
>
> El Jueves, 15 de May de 2008, Gary Cunningham-Lee escribió:
>  
>> TikiWiki's themes generally only vary in terms of background and border
>> coloring and font size, and don't actually change functionality. So new
>> users will have basically the same experience no matter which theme is
>> used (apart from text legibility differences, etc.).
>>    
>
> I understand that Tikiwiki's themes don't change functionality, but I think
> that they can change the user experience a lot. For example, in Neat theme
> many users don't notice that when you click on the three little squares in
> the Menu box, you get more options. That reduces the experience a lot for
> those users, it's a usability problem. I wonder if any usability test has
> been performed.
>
> I'd prefer to avoid theme customisation because I won't have the time and the
> will to maintain it in new releases.
>
> Javier
>
>
>  

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[Javier Arantegui-3]

Hello,

El Jueves, 15 de May de 2008, Gary Cunningham-Lee escribió:
> In my opinion quite a few of the current TikiWiki themes have usability
> and accessibility problems. One thing we are trying to do for TikiWiki
> 1.10 is reduce the number of included themes (to ease maintenance
> problems) and improve the quality of those that are included, along with
> providing documentation on customizing/personalizing and helping people
> find additional themes that will be available.

Is there any roadmap for Tikiwiki 1.10? Weeks, months? It seems that it's
going to be a great improvement.

Is there any plan to backport 1.10 themes to 1.9.x?



> Any comments on what a theme should have or shouldn't have, or what
> people would like to see (or not see) in a TikiWiki theme, and so on,
> would be appreciated.

Maybe I'm wrong but most of the themes look like if they were made by
amateurs. I think that we need themes made by professional designers who
understand typography, have good taste picking up colors, etc. Sadly, all the
qualities I don't have.

I'm not complaining. The actual themes are much better that I could get if I
had to make them, but they could be better.

Javier



--
Javier Arántegui
Dept. Tecnologia de Alimentos / Dept. of Food Technology
Universitat de Lleida / University of Lleida (Spain)
         
Tel. [phone]
Fax  [phone]
IM: Jabber - javier.arantegui (AT) jabberes.org
http://www.tecal.udl.es

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[Russ Harvell-Fruhwirth]

Howdy, I am currently using the Tikigod.css theme.  I like the name, its catchy.  I tried out nearly all of the themes to find the one that worked best for us! 

Lots of good discussion about themes. 

I achieved this look by creating a PNG image with our logo and Title, as you can see.  I like this overall look because its not too "busy", just black, white, and gray, with color in our logos. 

Cheers,
Russ

Russell Harvell-Fruhwirth
Network Engineer
Nebraska Educational Telecommunications
1800 N. 33rd St.
Lincoln, NE 68503
[phone] ext. 566
CompTIA A+ Certified, Microsoft MCDST

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[Javier Arantegui-3]

Hi!

El Jueves, 15 de May de 2008, Russ Harvell-Fruhwirth escribió:
> Howdy, I am currently using the Tikigod.css theme.  I like the name, its
> catchy.  I tried out nearly all of the themes to find the one that worked
> best for us! 

It looks nice. Thanks for sharing. Do you know if it will be included in 1.10?
For me it's important because I don't want to start using a new theme, just
to learn that it'll vanish from the default package.

Javier


--
Javier Arántegui
Dept. Tecnologia de Alimentos / Dept. of Food Technology
Universitat de Lleida / University of Lleida (Spain)
         
Tel. [phone]
Fax  [phone]
IM: Jabber - javier.arantegui (AT) jabberes.org
http://www.tecal.udl.es

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[Russ Harvell-Fruhwirth]

No idea which themes will continue to be around in future releases.  The good news is that I'm sure there will at least one or two that will work for what you need, no matter what the specifics.  


Cheers.

Russell Harvell-Fruhwirth
Network Engineer
Nebraska Educational Telecommunications
1800 N. 33rd St.
Lincoln, NE 68503
[phone] ext. 566
CompTIA A+ Certified, Microsoft MCDST

Javier Arantegui <arante@...>
Sent by: tikiwiki-users-bounces@...

05/16/2008 03:35 AM

Please respond to
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Subject	Re: [Tikiwiki-users] Best theme for 1.9.11

Hi!

El Jueves, 15 de May de 2008, Russ Harvell-Fruhwirth escribió:
> Howdy, I am currently using the Tikigod.css theme.  I like the name, its
> catchy.  I tried out nearly all of the themes to find the one that worked
> best for us! 

It looks nice. Thanks for sharing. Do you know if it will be included in 1.10?
For me it's important because I don't want to start using a new theme, just
to learn that it'll vanish from the default package.

Javier


--
Javier Arántegui
Dept. Tecnologia de Alimentos / Dept. of Food Technology
Universitat de Lleida / University of Lleida (Spain)
       
Tel. [phone]
Fax  [phone]
IM: Jabber - javier.arantegui (AT) jabberes.org
http://www.tecal.udl.es

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[gary_c]

Hi,

There was agreement (in IRC and the dev mailing list, mainly) that the
number of bundled themes would be reduced to maybe five or so, but no
decisions have been made on what they will be. There've been complaints
that the bundled themes were mostly old-school and not very attractive
so we'll try to have themes that are more contemporary-looking. Another
point was to think about offering themes that could easily be modified
in terms of background colors and so on, so that the rather few themes
could produce a lot of variants without too much trouble by site admins.

On the other hand, a number of people have said they like one older
theme or another, so it would be good to continue to have them available
for Tiki 1.10, if not still in the main package. But to be continued,
these older themes should be brought up to date internally; some of
their CSS files, for example, still contain styling for features that
were dropped some time ago, and much of the syntax is about as verbose
as is possible with CSS (which is why a few of them hit or come close to
100Kb in size. For comparison, the theme files I'm doing now are around
40Kb and include pretty much all of the current CSS selectors, along
with what's in the 1.9->1.10 transition CSS file as well as some
overrides of things in calendar.css and so on, to make the styling complete.

Anyway, one experiment I did was to do a liquid-layout (*litecss-based)
version of the Tikineat theme, called Tikinewt, and then use it as the
foundation for a modernized Damian theme -- damian.css imports
tikinewt.css to get most of the needed layout, and then just adds those
things unique to Damian. The result is the old theme look but done with
contemporary layout methods and with less overhead (smaller CSS files)
than the original. You can see these at http://zukakakina.com/Tikinewt 
and http://zukakakina.com/Damian. The same thing could be done with most
or all of the older themes without too much trouble. Then maintaining
these would be fairly easy because only the imported tikinewt.css shared
by all of them would need to be changed for most updates.

-- Gary


Javier Arantegui wrote:

> Hi!
>
> El Jueves, 15 de May de 2008, Russ Harvell-Fruhwirth escribió:
>> Howdy, I am currently using the Tikigod.css theme.  I like the name, its
>> catchy.  I tried out nearly all of the themes to find the one that worked
>> best for us!
>
> It looks nice. Thanks for sharing. Do you know if it will be included in 1.10?
> For me it's important because I don't want to start using a new theme, just
> to learn that it'll vanish from the default package.
>
> Javier

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[Xavier de Pedro Puente-2]

Thanks for your work and information, Gary. This way, maintaining theme
will be much easier for Tiki site admins.
Cheers
Xavi

En/na Gary Cunningham-Lee ha escrit:

> Hi,
>
> There was agreement (in IRC and the dev mailing list, mainly) that the
> number of bundled themes would be reduced to maybe five or so, but no
> decisions have been made on what they will be. There've been complaints
> that the bundled themes were mostly old-school and not very attractive
> so we'll try to have themes that are more contemporary-looking. Another
> point was to think about offering themes that could easily be modified
> in terms of background colors and so on, so that the rather few themes
> could produce a lot of variants without too much trouble by site admins.
>
> On the other hand, a number of people have said they like one older
> theme or another, so it would be good to continue to have them available
> for Tiki 1.10, if not still in the main package. But to be continued,
> these older themes should be brought up to date internally; some of
> their CSS files, for example, still contain styling for features that
> were dropped some time ago, and much of the syntax is about as verbose
> as is possible with CSS (which is why a few of them hit or come close to
> 100Kb in size. For comparison, the theme files I'm doing now are around
> 40Kb and include pretty much all of the current CSS selectors, along
> with what's in the 1.9->1.10 transition CSS file as well as some
> overrides of things in calendar.css and so on, to make the styling complete.
>
> Anyway, one experiment I did was to do a liquid-layout (*litecss-based)
> version of the Tikineat theme, called Tikinewt, and then use it as the
> foundation for a modernized Damian theme -- damian.css imports
> tikinewt.css to get most of the needed layout, and then just adds those
> things unique to Damian. The result is the old theme look but done with
> contemporary layout methods and with less overhead (smaller CSS files)
> than the original. You can see these at http://zukakakina.com/Tikinewt 
> and http://zukakakina.com/Damian. The same thing could be done with most
> or all of the older themes without too much trouble. Then maintaining
> these would be fairly easy because only the imported tikinewt.css shared
> by all of them would need to be changed for most updates.
>
> -- Gary
>
>
> Javier Arantegui wrote:
>  
>> Hi!
>>
>> El Jueves, 15 de May de 2008, Russ Harvell-Fruhwirth escribió:
>>    
>>> Howdy, I am currently using the Tikigod.css theme.  I like the name, its
>>> catchy.  I tried out nearly all of the themes to find the one that worked
>>> best for us!
>>>      
>> It looks nice. Thanks for sharing. Do you know if it will be included in 1.10?
>> For me it's important because I don't want to start using a new theme, just
>> to learn that it'll vanish from the default package.
>>
>> Javier
>>    

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