Added a proposal for "location excerpts"

[pamela fox]

Hey there--

So I noticed the "Excerpts" in proposals wasn't linked, and I enjoyed
our conversation about it at WhereCamp, so I put together a proposal
for how I'd like to see location excerpts be done. You can read it
here:
http://georss.org/proposals/excerpts

Comments/edits welcome. Thanks!

- pamela
_______________________________________________
georss mailing list
georss@...
http://lists.eogeo.org/mailman/listinfo/georss

[joshli]

Pamela,

Great. I'm increasingly persuaded that links to and between entries /  
feeds are the way to go for some of the more detailed and narrational  
uses of GeoRSS. It isn't yet clear to me, however, how best to link  
from one entry to another within a feed, which would be useful for  
geotagged "stories" to travel together.

The Atom paging proposal isnt' much help here. I suppose that it  
should always be possible to create a link using an entry (or a feed)  
<id> element. Any client should be able just to follow the URL, but a  
clever one "might" look for that <id> within the feed first.

Using links to order excerpt entries would be useful particularly  
where it might be hard to pick out unique excerpt language and the  
order of occurrence would help clarity.

-Josh Lieberman


On Sep 29, 2008, at 3:00 PM, pamela fox wrote:

> Hey there--
>
> So I noticed the "Excerpts" in proposals wasn't linked, and I enjoyed
> our conversation about it at WhereCamp, so I put together a proposal
> for how I'd like to see location excerpts be done. You can read it
> here:
> http://georss.org/proposals/excerpts
>
> Comments/edits welcome. Thanks!
>
> - pamela
> _______________________________________________
> georss mailing list
> georss@...
> http://lists.eogeo.org/mailman/listinfo/georss

_______________________________________________
georss mailing list
georss@...
http://lists.eogeo.org/mailman/listinfo/georss

[Sean Gillies]

Atom paging? Do you not mean threading (RFC 4685)?

> Pamela,
>
> Great. I'm increasingly persuaded that links to and between entries /
> feeds are the way to go for some of the more detailed and narrational
> uses of GeoRSS. It isn't yet clear to me, however, how best to link
> from one entry to another within a feed, which would be useful for
> geotagged "stories" to travel together.
>
> The Atom paging proposal isnt' much help here. I suppose that it
> should always be possible to create a link using an entry (or a feed)
> <id> element. Any client should be able just to follow the URL, but a
> clever one "might" look for that <id> within the feed first.
>
> Using links to order excerpt entries would be useful particularly
> where it might be hard to pick out unique excerpt language and the
> order of occurrence would help clarity.
>
> -Josh Lieberman
>
>
> On Sep 29, 2008, at 3:00 PM, pamela fox wrote:
>
>> Hey there--
>>
>> So I noticed the "Excerpts" in proposals wasn't linked, and I enjoyed
>> our conversation about it at WhereCamp, so I put together a proposal
>> for how I'd like to see location excerpts be done. You can read it
>> here:
>> http://georss.org/proposals/excerpts
>>
>> Comments/edits welcome. Thanks!
>>
>> - pamela
>> _______________________________________________
>> georss mailing list
>> georss@...
>> http://lists.eogeo.org/mailman/listinfo/georss
>
> _______________________________________________
> georss mailing list
> georss@...
> http://lists.eogeo.org/mailman/listinfo/georss
>

_______________________________________________
georss mailing list
georss@...
http://lists.eogeo.org/mailman/listinfo/georss

[pamela fox]

Hey Josh-

I think that's actually a more general question about feeds - as lots
of people can tell stories that aren't geotagged as well. So I think
you just want to be able to define a feed where all of the entries are
from one "story", and that there is an enforced sequence via link tags
in the entries. It could be something like
<link rel="http://storyfeed.org/#previous" href="http://storyfeed/#2"></link>

Alternatively, you could rely on the default sequence of a feed, or
more explicitly have a query parameter to sort by time order
(?order=time).

On Mon, Sep 29, 2008 at 1:28 PM, Joshua Lieberman <josh@...> wrote:

> Pamela,
>
> Great. I'm increasingly persuaded that links to and between entries /
> feeds are the way to go for some of the more detailed and narrational
> uses of GeoRSS. It isn't yet clear to me, however, how best to link
> from one entry to another within a feed, which would be useful for
> geotagged "stories" to travel together.
>
> The Atom paging proposal isnt' much help here. I suppose that it
> should always be possible to create a link using an entry (or a feed)
> <id> element. Any client should be able just to follow the URL, but a
> clever one "might" look for that <id> within the feed first.
>
> Using links to order excerpt entries would be useful particularly
> where it might be hard to pick out unique excerpt language and the
> order of occurrence would help clarity.
>
> -Josh Lieberman
>
>
> On Sep 29, 2008, at 3:00 PM, pamela fox wrote:
>
>> Hey there--
>>
>> So I noticed the "Excerpts" in proposals wasn't linked, and I enjoyed
>> our conversation about it at WhereCamp, so I put together a proposal
>> for how I'd like to see location excerpts be done. You can read it
>> here:
>> http://georss.org/proposals/excerpts
>>
>> Comments/edits welcome. Thanks!
>>
>> - pamela
>> _______________________________________________
>> georss mailing list
>> georss@...
>> http://lists.eogeo.org/mailman/listinfo/georss
>
> _______________________________________________
> georss mailing list
> georss@...
> http://lists.eogeo.org/mailman/listinfo/georss
>

_______________________________________________
georss mailing list
georss@...
http://lists.eogeo.org/mailman/listinfo/georss

[Mikel Maron]

+1

* It doesn't require any changes to the GeoRSS standard. It's simply a recommended convention. (Once the more Atom centric questions about linking and referencing between Atom feeds and entries).

* Cleanly backwards compatible. Existing parsers are completely unaffected. Updated parsers can take advantage of the additional features.

-Mikel

--- On Mon, 9/29/08, pamela fox <pamela.fox@...> wrote:

From: pamela fox <pamela.fox@...>
Subject: Re: [georss] Added a proposal for "location excerpts"
To: "Joshua Lieberman" <josh@...>
Cc: "GeoRss georss@..." <georss@...>
Date: Monday, September 29, 2008, 5:14 PM

Hey Josh-

I think
 that's actually a more general question about feeds - as lots
of people can tell stories that aren't geotagged as well. So I think
you just want to be able to define a feed where all of the entries are
from one "story", and that there is an enforced sequence via link
tags
in the entries. It could be something like
<link rel="http://storyfeed.org/#previous"
href="http://storyfeed/#2"></link>

Alternatively, you could rely on the default sequence of a feed, or
more explicitly have a query parameter to sort by time order
(?order=time).

On Mon, Sep 29, 2008 at 1:28 PM, Joshua Lieberman <josh@...>
wrote:

> Pamela,
>
> Great. I'm increasingly persuaded that links to and between entries /
> feeds are the way to go for some of the more detailed and narrational
> uses of GeoRSS. It isn't yet clear to me, however, how best to link
> from one entry to another
 within a feed, which would be useful for
> geotagged "stories" to travel together.
>
> The Atom paging proposal isnt' much help here. I suppose that it
> should always be possible to create a link using an entry (or a feed)
> <id> element. Any client should be able just to follow the URL, but
a
> clever one "might" look for that <id> within the feed
first.

>
> Using links to order excerpt entries would be useful particularly
> where it might be hard to pick out unique excerpt language and the
> order of occurrence would help clarity.
>
> -Josh Lieberman
>
>
> On Sep 29, 2008, at 3:00 PM, pamela fox wrote:
>
>> Hey there--
>>
>> So I noticed the "Excerpts" in proposals wasn't linked,
and I enjoyed

>> our conversation about it at WhereCamp, so I put together a proposal
>> for how I'd like to see
 location excerpts be done. You can read it
>> here:
>> http://georss.org/proposals/excerpts
>>
>> Comments/edits welcome. Thanks!
>>
>> - pamela
>> _______________________________________________
>> georss mailing list
>> georss@...
>> http://lists.eogeo.org/mailman/listinfo/georss
>
> _______________________________________________
> georss mailing list
> georss@...
> http://lists.eogeo.org/mailman/listinfo/georss
>
_______________________________________________
georss mailing list
georss@...
http://lists.eogeo.org/mailman/listinfo/georss

_______________________________________________
georss mailing list
georss@...
http://lists.eogeo.org/mailman/listinfo/georss

[creed]

Some parts of this message have been removed. Learn more about Nabble's security policy.

Also +1 for the same reasons.

 

Carl

 

----- Original Message -----

From: mikel_maron@...

To: josh@... ; pamela.fox@...

Cc: georss@...

Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2008 2:46 AM

Subject: Re: [georss] Added a proposal for "location excerpts"

+1

* It doesn't require any changes to the GeoRSS standard. It's simply a recommended convention. (Once the more Atom centric questions about linking and referencing between Atom feeds and entries).

* Cleanly backwards compatible. Existing parsers are completely unaffected. Updated parsers can take advantage of the additional features.

-Mikel

--- On Mon, 9/29/08, pamela fox <pamela.fox@...> wrote:

From: pamela fox <pamela.fox@...>
Subject: Re: [georss] Added a proposal for "location excerpts"
To: "Joshua Lieberman" <josh@...>
Cc: "GeoRss georss@..." <georss@...>
Date: Monday, September 29, 2008, 5:14 PM

Hey Josh-

I think
 that's actually a more general question about feeds - as lots
of people can tell stories that aren't geotagged as well. So I think
you just want to be able to define a feed where all of the entries are
from one "story", and that there is an enforced sequence via link
tags
in the entries. It could be something like
<link rel="http://storyfeed.org/#previous"
href="http://storyfeed/#2"></link>

Alternatively, you could rely on the default sequence of a feed, or
more explicitly have a query parameter to sort by time order
(?order=time).

On Mon, Sep 29, 2008 at 1:28 PM, Joshua Lieberman <josh@...>
wrote:

> Pamela,
>
> Great. I'm increasingly persuaded that links to and between entries /
> feeds are the way to go for some of the more detailed and narrational
> uses of GeoRSS. It isn't yet clear to me, however, how best to link
> from one entry to another
 within a feed, which would be useful for
> geotagged "stories" to travel together.
>
> The Atom paging proposal isnt' much help here. I suppose that it
> should always be possible to create a link using an entry (or a feed)
> <id> element. Any client should be able just to follow the URL, but
a
> clever one "might" look for that <id> within the feed
first.

>
> Using links to order excerpt entries would be useful particularly
> where it might be hard to pick out unique excerpt language and the
> order of occurrence would help clarity.
>
> -Josh Lieberman
>
>
> On Sep 29, 2008, at 3:00 PM, pamela fox wrote:
>
>> Hey there--
>>
>> So I noticed the "Excerpts" in proposals wasn't linked,
and I enjoyed

>> our conversation about it at WhereCamp, so I put together a proposal
>> for how I'd like to see
 location excerpts be done. You can read it
>> here:
>> http://georss.org/proposals/excerpts
>>
>> Comments/edits welcome. Thanks!
>>
>> - pamela
>> _______________________________________________
>> georss mailing list
>> georss@...
>> http://lists.eogeo.org/mailman/listinfo/georss
>
> _______________________________________________
> georss mailing list
> georss@...
> http://lists.eogeo.org/mailman/listinfo/georss
>
_______________________________________________
georss mailing list
georss@...
http://lists.eogeo.org/mailman/listinfo/georss

---

_______________________________________________
georss mailing list
georss@...
http://lists.eogeo.org/mailman/listinfo/georss

_______________________________________________
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georss@...
http://lists.eogeo.org/mailman/listinfo/georss

[joshli]

The idea of a "story" is sometime analogy, sometimes not. It may be an actual story relationship (although the concept of a story "line" is at least intentionally visual), it may be spatial parts related to a spatial whole which is not particularly narrative in character, or (most interesting) it may be both: parts of a narrative "and" trajectory which have a progression in space and time.

Link types are attractive because they are clean conventions which can be ignored by some readers for some purposes and require no additional specification beyond writing down the link rel definitions somewhere. The problem is that they only provide an href as a pointer; the convention has to get into the URL structure in order to enable links among entries in a feed since none of the feed types defines an explicit resolvable "anchor" that I am aware of (either <a/> or xml:id). 

On the other hand, in the case of Atom, atom:id and href both refer to atomUri:

" # Unconstrained; it's not entirely clear how IRI fit into

   # xsd:anyURI so let's not try to constrain it here

   atomUri = text

"

So maybe it is possible (already done by software?) to resolve relative href's to atom:id's in the same feed if possible? I can't find a clear directive on this.

The threaded discussion extension (http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc4685.txt) uses extension elements for this reason, adding a "ref" element with the <atom:id> of the entry being referenced.

With the latter approach, GeoRSS could add a clear set of spatiotemporal relation operators, not only <georss:next-in-line> and <georss:previous-in-line> but <georss:intersects>, <georss:contained-by>, and other Egenhofer relations. These relations would work clearly between entries in the same feed (ref) and/or between entries / feeds located elsewhere (href).

--Josh

On Sep 30, 2008, at 12:35 PM, Carl Reed wrote:

Also +1 for the same reasons.

 

Carl

 

----- Original Message -----

From: mikel_maron@...

To: josh@... ; pamela.fox@...

Cc: georss@...

Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2008 2:46 AM

Subject: Re: [georss] Added a proposal for "location excerpts"

+1

* It doesn't require any changes to the GeoRSS standard. It's simply a recommended convention. (Once the more Atom centric questions about linking and referencing between Atom feeds and entries).

* Cleanly backwards compatible. Existing parsers are completely unaffected. Updated parsers can take advantage of the additional features.

-Mikel

--- On Mon, 9/29/08, pamela fox <pamela.fox@...> wrote:

From: pamela fox <pamela.fox@...>
Subject: Re: [georss] Added a proposal for "location excerpts"
To: "Joshua Lieberman" <josh@...>
Cc: "GeoRss georss@..." <georss@...>
Date: Monday, September 29, 2008, 5:14 PM

Hey Josh-

I think
 that's actually a more general question about feeds - as lots
of people can tell stories that aren't geotagged as well. So I think
you just want to be able to define a feed where all of the entries are
from one "story", and that there is an enforced sequence via link
tags
in the entries. It could be something like
<link rel="http://storyfeed.org/#previous"
href="http://storyfeed/#2"></link>

Alternatively, you could rely on the default sequence of a feed, or
more explicitly have a query parameter to sort by time order
(?order=time).

On Mon, Sep 29, 2008 at 1:28 PM, Joshua Lieberman <josh@...>
wrote:
> Pamela,
>
> Great. I'm increasingly persuaded that links to and between entries /
> feeds are the way to go for some of the more detailed and narrational
> uses of GeoRSS. It isn't yet clear to me, however, how best to link
> from one entry to another
 within a feed, which would be useful for
> geotagged "stories" to travel together.
>
> The Atom paging proposal isnt' much help here. I suppose that it
> should always be possible to create a link using an entry (or a feed)
> <id> element. Any client should be able just to follow the URL, but
a
> clever one "might" look for that <id> within the feed
first.
>
> Using links to order excerpt entries would be useful particularly
> where it might be hard to pick out unique excerpt language and the
> order of occurrence would help clarity.
>
> -Josh Lieberman
>
>
> On Sep 29, 2008, at 3:00 PM, pamela fox wrote:
>
>> Hey there--
>>
>> So I noticed the "Excerpts" in proposals wasn't linked,
and I enjoyed
>> our conversation about it at WhereCamp, so I put together a proposal
>> for how I'd like to see
 location excerpts be done. You can read it
>> here:
>> http://georss.org/proposals/excerpts
>>
>> Comments/edits welcome. Thanks!
>>
>> - pamela
>> _______________________________________________
>> georss mailing list
>> georss@...
>> http://lists.eogeo.org/mailman/listinfo/georss
>
> _______________________________________________
> georss mailing list
> georss@...
> http://lists.eogeo.org/mailman/listinfo/georss
>
_______________________________________________
georss mailing list
georss@...
http://lists.eogeo.org/mailman/listinfo/georss

---

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