About GtkGLExt / glChess

[AndreasR]

There have been many good suggestions for new games in gnome games so
far. One of the games that I like is glChess
(http://glchess.sourceforge.net/). It depends upon OpenGl, using the
GtkGLExt library. Note that glChess does not require hardware support to
be playable with OpenGl, it can also be played with software as well.

OpenGL is perfectly suited for game-development. I would imagine that
OpenGl would add the extra graphic-appeal to gnome-games that some
people have been missing, and that we possibly could see more games with
OpenGl for GNOME in the future. Many Linux distributions already ship
with several OpenGl games by default (eg. Neverball and Tux Racer).

How do people feel about adding GtkGLExt as a library dependency on
gnome-games, if glChess would be selected as a new game?

 - Andreas
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[Corey Burger]

n 8/31/06, Andreas Røsdal <andrearo@...> wrote:

> There have been many good suggestions for new games in gnome games so
> far. One of the games that I like is glChess
> (http://glchess.sourceforge.net/). It depends upon OpenGl, using the
> GtkGLExt library. Note that glChess does not require hardware support to
> be playable with OpenGl, it can also be played with software as well.
>
> OpenGL is perfectly suited for game-development. I would imagine that
> OpenGl would add the extra graphic-appeal to gnome-games that some
> people have been missing, and that we possibly could see more games with
> OpenGl for GNOME in the future. Many Linux distributions already ship
> with several OpenGl games by default (eg. Neverball and Tux Racer).
>
> How do people feel about adding GtkGLExt as a library dependency on
> gnome-games, if glChess would be selected as a new game?
>
>  - Andreas

I like the idea of OpenGL, but I have big concerns about thin clients
and other memory tight environments. Thus, I suggest that glChess have
a non-GL mode that is enabled by default, a standard 2D chess board.
Create a view menu which allows users to change to OpenGL mode on the
fly. Thus we can pimp the new stuff without pissing of our users (and
our large deployments, most of whom are on some sort of thin client)

Corey
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[AndreasR]

Corey Burger wrote:

> n 8/31/06, Andreas Røsdal <andrearo@...> wrote:
>  
>> There have been many good suggestions for new games in gnome games so
>> far. One of the games that I like is glChess
>> (http://glchess.sourceforge.net/). It depends upon OpenGl, using the
>> GtkGLExt library. Note that glChess does not require hardware support to
>> be playable with OpenGl, it can also be played with software as well.
>>
>> OpenGL is perfectly suited for game-development. I would imagine that
>> OpenGl would add the extra graphic-appeal to gnome-games that some
>> people have been missing, and that we possibly could see more games with
>> OpenGl for GNOME in the future. Many Linux distributions already ship
>> with several OpenGl games by default (eg. Neverball and Tux Racer).
>>
>> How do people feel about adding GtkGLExt as a library dependency on
>> gnome-games, if glChess would be selected as a new game?
>>
>>  - Andreas
>>    
>
> I like the idea of OpenGL, but I have big concerns about thin clients
> and other memory tight environments. Thus, I suggest that glChess have
> a non-GL mode that is enabled by default, a standard 2D chess board.
> Create a view menu which allows users to change to OpenGL mode on the
> fly. Thus we can pimp the new stuff without pissing of our users (and
> our large deployments, most of whom are on some sort of thin client)
>  

Take a look at:  http://bobthegnome.blogspot.com/  The main developer,
Robert, at least seems very interested in making this work, and has
suggested a 2D / 3D solution.  :)

 - Andreas
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[Corey Burger]

On 8/31/06, Andreas Røsdal <andrearo@...> wrote:

> Corey Burger wrote:
> > n 8/31/06, Andreas Røsdal <andrearo@...> wrote:
> >
> >> There have been many good suggestions for new games in gnome games so
> >> far. One of the games that I like is glChess
> >> (http://glchess.sourceforge.net/). It depends upon OpenGl, using the
> >> GtkGLExt library. Note that glChess does not require hardware support to
> >> be playable with OpenGl, it can also be played with software as well.
> >>
> >> OpenGL is perfectly suited for game-development. I would imagine that
> >> OpenGl would add the extra graphic-appeal to gnome-games that some
> >> people have been missing, and that we possibly could see more games with
> >> OpenGl for GNOME in the future. Many Linux distributions already ship
> >> with several OpenGl games by default (eg. Neverball and Tux Racer).
> >>
> >> How do people feel about adding GtkGLExt as a library dependency on
> >> gnome-games, if glChess would be selected as a new game?
> >>
> >>  - Andreas
> >>
> >
> > I like the idea of OpenGL, but I have big concerns about thin clients
> > and other memory tight environments. Thus, I suggest that glChess have
> > a non-GL mode that is enabled by default, a standard 2D chess board.
> > Create a view menu which allows users to change to OpenGL mode on the
> > fly. Thus we can pimp the new stuff without pissing of our users (and
> > our large deployments, most of whom are on some sort of thin client)
> >
> Take a look at:  http://bobthegnome.blogspot.com/  The main developer,
> Robert, at least seems very interested in making this work, and has
> suggested a 2D / 3D solution.  :)
>
>  - Andreas

We should probably also try and draw this person in:
http://gnomefiles.org/app.php/pychess

As they are just starting on a python chess game in 2D.  After all,
one of the the goals is new developers.

His email is  thomas@...

Corey
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[Sebastian Koppehel]

Andreas Røsdal wrote:

> There have been many good suggestions for new games in gnome games so
> far. One of the games that I like is glChess
> (http://glchess.sourceforge.net/). It depends upon OpenGl, using the
> GtkGLExt library. Note that glChess does not require hardware support to
> be playable with OpenGl, it can also be played with software as well.

My understanding is that glChess, like most ...chess apps, is not a game
in and of itself, but a front-end for gnuchess, crafty, and similar
engines. It's useless if you don't have at least one of these around (at
least if you don't want to play other people over the internet).
Wouldn't this be inconvenient for inclusion in gnome-games?

 - Sebastian


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[Alan Horkan]

On Thu, 31 Aug 2006, [ISO-8859-1] Andreas Røsdal wrote:

> Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2006 22:44:28 +0200
> From: "[ISO-8859-1] Andreas Røsdal" <andrearo@...>
> To: games-list@...
> Subject: Re: About GtkGLExt / glChess
>
> Corey Burger wrote:
> > n 8/31/06, Andreas Røsdal <andrearo@...> wrote:
> >
> >> There have been many good suggestions for new games in gnome games so
> >> far. One of the games that I like is glChess
> >> (http://glchess.sourceforge.net/). It depends upon OpenGl, using the
> >> GtkGLExt library. Note that glChess does not require hardware support to
> >> be playable with OpenGl, it can also be played with software as well.
> >>
> >> OpenGL is perfectly suited for game-development.

Words such as perfect can be very subjective.
SDL seems simpler than using OpenGL directly but I would not be an
expert on the sujbect.

> >> OpenGl would add the extra graphic-appeal to gnome-games that some
> >> people have been missing, and that we possibly could see more games with

Gnome games has kept to a more limited selection of games, cards and
puzzles mostly rather than more dramatic 3D or arcade games.  If people
are expecting even more eyecandy than all the SVG support has allowed it
would seem more like a problem of marketing and managing expecatations.

> >> OpenGl for GNOME in the future. Many Linux distributions already ship
> >> with several OpenGl games by default (eg. Neverball and Tux Racer).

It would certainly be cool if a few of these applications gathered
together into their own collection.  Perhaps gnome-games could encourage
the creation of such a seperate collection?

> >> How do people feel about adding GtkGLExt as a library dependency on
> >> gnome-games, if glChess would be selected as a new game?

It seems like a big step.  I'm wary of any of the proposed new
technologies given the risk it entails.  Using Guile seemed like a good
idea at the time but more developers would always be good.

Gnome at large has adopted Python so it does seem like a relatively safe
choice as far as it goes.

> > I like the idea of OpenGL, but I have big concerns about thin clients
> > and other memory tight environments. Thus, I suggest that glChess have
> > a non-GL mode that is enabled by default, a standard 2D chess board.
> > Create a view menu which allows users to change to OpenGL mode on the
> > fly. Thus we can pimp the new stuff without pissing of our users (and
> > our large deployments, most of whom are on some sort of thin client)
> >
> Take a look at:  http://bobthegnome.blogspot.com/  The main developer,

Having the developer on board is a very good thing and should definately
be one of the first steps in this process.

I appreciate his honesty and sense of humour but note carefully the
following comment:

"This is some of the WORST written code I've seen.
I can understand why you morons ceased working it!"

http://glchess.sourceforge.net/?q=node/21

Given the long term maintainance issues Gnome Games faces are part of the
motivation of getting rid of a game and adding another.  Perhaps some kind
of a code quality review would be advisable before adopting any a game?

> Robert, at least seems very interested in making this work, and has
> suggested a 2D / 3D solution.  :)

Unlike most of the current gnome games I am certain any good chess game
will need to deal with the loading and saving of Game files.  A standard
File menu will definately be needed, and I'm surprised the game doesn't
provide more than two top level menus.  If bob is interested I would be
happy to provide him with more feedback on the intereface irrespective of
how things progress in terms of gnome-games (assuming I can get the game
installed and built but I'm surethink Andreas would not have proposed it
if he had any difficultly building it).


Mise le meas

--
Alan Horkan
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[Callum McKenzie-2]

On Thu, 2006-08-31 at 22:23 +0200, Andreas Røsdal wrote:
> How do people feel about adding GtkGLExt as a library dependency on
> gnome-games, if glChess would be selected as a new game?
>From the official GNOME platform perspective dependencies that aren't
officially part of GNOME either have to get a special exemption (as a
"blessed" dependency) or be compile-time configurable so it isn't a hard
dependency.

Historically we have gone for the later solution: the use of guile in
Aisleriot and the use of C++ for gnometris and blackjack are both
decided at compile time. If guile or C++ isn't installed, we don't
compile the games. Doing the same here would be reasonable since I think
GtkGLExt is reasonably widely deployed and distros would probably build
glChess by default. Of course, having a mode where it would still work
if GL wasn't present would be even better, but maybe too much work to
make it worthwhile.

 - Callum




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[Richard Hoelscher]

Alan Horkan said:

> SDL seems simpler than using OpenGL directly but I would not be an
> expert on the sujbect.

In this case, SDL only addresses platform-specific hassles. Draw using
vanilla OpenGL calls, then tell SDL to swap buffers.

-Richard Hoelscher
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