ANNOUNCE: cluttermm 0.5.1

[Murray Cumming]

cluttermm provides a C++ API for Clutter (a 3D canvas and items), for use
with gtkmm. It is usable, and we'd like to hear about any problems or
about anything that is missing.


Changes:

0.5.1:

* Added cluttermm-gtk, wrapping clutter-gtk.
  This provides the Clutter::Gtk::Embed widget.
  (Siavash Safi)
* Added cluttermm-cairo, wrapping clutter-cairo.
  This provides Clutter::Cairo::CairoTexture.
  (Jonathon Jongsma)
* Changed the pkg-config files to use 0.6 in their name, so we can target
  specific clutter API versions. For instance, cluttermm-0.6, cluttermm-gtk-0.6,
  and cluttermm-cairo-0.6.
  (Jonathon Jongsma)
* Actor: add default value of 'true' to Actor::set_reactive().
  (Jonathon Jongsma)


Details:

We should really put this on a web page:
svn:
  svn.gnome.org/gnomemm/cluttermm/trunk/
  http://svn.gnome.org/viewvc/gnomemm/cluttermm/trunk/
  (It's in jhbuild)
download:
  http://ftp.gnome.org/pub/GNOME/sources/cluttermm/
submit bugs:
  http://bugzilla.gnome.org/enter_bug.cgi?product=gnomemm&component=cluttermm
view bugs:
  http://bugzilla.gnome.org/buglist.cgi?query=component%3Acluttermm+product%3Agnomemm+


--
Murray Cumming
murrayc@...
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www.openismus.com

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[Martin (OPENGeoMap)]

Hi all:
clutter rocks!!

You are everywhere murray hehe.

I am newbye here and after 2 years in gtk+ i want forget C API pain. >:o .
Have you been working in all C++ bindings for GTKmm. Are there any trick???.
http://www.gtkmm.org/docs/gtkmm-2.4/docs/tutorial/html/chapter-wrapping-c-libraries.html
ís it 100% succesful gmmproc??


I need GTS library (Gobject) and i would know if it´s difficult create
C++ bindings or use C API can be anough here??
http://gts.sourceforge.net/reference/book1.html

a last question. What about the gtkmm vs inti  war in the past??
http://www.telegraph-road.org/writings/gtkmm_vs_qt.html
http://www.telegraph-road.org/writings/why.html

It´s seems like before GTKMM developer Guillaume Laurent nowadays hates
GTK  or he have good reasons to not defend GTKMM anymore???.

Guillaume Laurent talks about the problems in use a stack object:
   1.  From the stack : Gtk::Button foo("press me");
   2. From the heap : Gtk::Button *foo = new Gtk::Button("press me");
, but i see many advantages in use stack widgets because we can build
new widgets in a easy way like GTK# or ruby/gnome.
It´s seems that INTI only had heap widgets.
http://sources.redhat.com/inti/inti-manual/gtk-hello.html#SIMPLE-HELLO


Regards.

> cluttermm provides a C++ API for Clutter (a 3D canvas and items), for use
> with gtkmm. It is usable, and we'd like to hear about any problems or
> about anything that is missing.
>
>
> Changes:
>
> 0.5.1:
>
> * Added cluttermm-gtk, wrapping clutter-gtk.
>   This provides the Clutter::Gtk::Embed widget.
>   (Siavash Safi)
> * Added cluttermm-cairo, wrapping clutter-cairo.
>   This provides Clutter::Cairo::CairoTexture.
>   (Jonathon Jongsma)
> * Changed the pkg-config files to use 0.6 in their name, so we can target
>   specific clutter API versions. For instance, cluttermm-0.6, cluttermm-gtk-0.6,
>   and cluttermm-cairo-0.6.
>   (Jonathon Jongsma)
> * Actor: add default value of 'true' to Actor::set_reactive().
>   (Jonathon Jongsma)
>
>
> Details:
>
> We should really put this on a web page:
> svn:
>   svn.gnome.org/gnomemm/cluttermm/trunk/
>   http://svn.gnome.org/viewvc/gnomemm/cluttermm/trunk/
>   (It's in jhbuild)
> download:
>   http://ftp.gnome.org/pub/GNOME/sources/cluttermm/
> submit bugs:
>   http://bugzilla.gnome.org/enter_bug.cgi?product=gnomemm&component=cluttermm
> view bugs:
>   http://bugzilla.gnome.org/buglist.cgi?query=component%3Acluttermm+product%3Agnomemm+
>
>
>  

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[Hubert Figuiere-2]

On Tue, 2008-05-06 at 22:54 +0200, Martin (OPENGeoMap) wrote:

> I need GTS library (Gobject) and i would know if it´s difficult create
> C++ bindings or use C API can be anough here??
> http://gts.sourceforge.net/reference/book1.html

You can always use C API when there is no C++ version.

> It´s seems like before GTKMM developer Guillaume Laurent nowadays hates
> GTK  or he have good reasons to not defend GTKMM anymore???.

Long time ago, things have evolved, He is entitled to his own opinion.
>
> Guillaume Laurent talks about the problems in use a stack object:
>    1.  From the stack : Gtk::Button foo("press me");
>    2. From the heap : Gtk::Button *foo = new Gtk::Button("press me");
> , but i see many advantages in use stack widgets because we can build
> new widgets in a easy way like GTK# or ruby/gnome.

Gtkmm allow both.
Gtk::manage() is here to ensure proper ownership of the object (similar
to Gtk's) when pointer are used. This is all documented.


Hub

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[Ionutz Borcoman]

I, for one, been oscillating between using GTKmm and QT4 for my next pet
project.

After playing with both QT4 and GTKmm for more than a month, I've decided to
use QT4. Maybe try again using GTK/GTKmm in a year.

Right now, I find the documentation lacking in key areas (for example,
drag&drop in a tree) and I'm tired of waiting for an answer on a mailing
list, answer that might never come, and not in the mood of hacking GTK>Kmm
sources.

For me, the documentation that comes with GTK/GTKmm is the biggest stopper (to
me, it is extremely disturbing that the latest GTK book, www.gtkbook.com,
says nothing about Drag&Drop or threading - maybe they are there, but I
couldn't found them - or that the container chapter doesn't talk about the
Frame widget - not important, but why there is no mention of it?).

Cheers,

Johnny

On Wednesday 07 May 2008 12:59:31 am Hubert Figuiere wrote:

> On Tue, 2008-05-06 at 22:54 +0200, Martin (OPENGeoMap) wrote:
> > I need GTS library (Gobject) and i would know if it´s difficult create
> > C++ bindings or use C API can be anough here??
> > http://gts.sourceforge.net/reference/book1.html
>
> You can always use C API when there is no C++ version.
>
> > It´s seems like before GTKMM developer Guillaume Laurent nowadays hates
> > GTK  or he have good reasons to not defend GTKMM anymore???.
>
> Long time ago, things have evolved, He is entitled to his own opinion.
>
> > Guillaume Laurent talks about the problems in use a stack object:
> >    1.  From the stack : Gtk::Button foo("press me");
> >    2. From the heap : Gtk::Button *foo = new Gtk::Button("press me");
> > , but i see many advantages in use stack widgets because we can build
> > new widgets in a easy way like GTK# or ruby/gnome.
>
> Gtkmm allow both.
> Gtk::manage() is here to ensure proper ownership of the object (similar
> to Gtk's) when pointer are used. This is all documented.
>
>
> Hub

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[Marko Anastasov-3]

On Wed, May 7, 2008 at 9:00 AM, Ionutz Borcoman <iborco@...> wrote:

> I, for one, been oscillating between using GTKmm and QT4 for my next pet
>  project.
>
>  After playing with both QT4 and GTKmm for more than a month, I've decided to
>  use QT4. Maybe try again using GTK/GTKmm in a year.
>
>  Right now, I find the documentation lacking in key areas (for example,
>  drag&drop in a tree) and I'm tired of waiting for an answer on a mailing
>  list, answer that might never come, and not in the mood of hacking GTK>Kmm
>  sources.

Have you read the gtkmm tutorial?
http://www.gtkmm.org/docs/gtkmm-2.4/docs/tutorial/html/index.html

    Marko
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[Charles McLachlan]

On Wed, 7 May 2008, Ionutz Borcoman wrote:

> I, for one, been oscillating between using GTKmm and QT4 for my next pet
> project.
>
> After playing with both QT4 and GTKmm for more than a month, I've decided to
> use QT4. Maybe try again using GTK/GTKmm in a year.

(I don't want to start a flame war (honest) but feel that my
experience with Qt (and my subsequent conversion to Gtkmm) might serve as
a warning to those who might be thinking of turning to the darkside.)

I've looked in my crystal ball and predict that after a year of using QT
you'll welcome back gtkmm with open arms.

Our company used to use Qt until we all became totally fed up to the back
teeth of its weird inconsistances, loony signal/slot mechanisms, and
staggeringly poor designer. In comparison, gtkmm is a breeze.

> Right now, I find the documentation lacking in key areas (for example,
> drag&drop in a tree) and I'm tired of waiting for an answer on a mailing
> list, answer that might never come, and not in the mood of hacking GTK>Kmm
> sources.

If its support you want, you'll not have any luck with Qt either. The Qt
mailing lists are the same as the Gtkmm ones, if your problem is
interesting, you'll get an answer. Don't be fooled that just because
people pay for Qt and there is a proper company behind it, that you're
going to get any sort of help.

And yes, you *will* have to resort to hacking the Qt code once you've
exhausted all the othe possibilities, and as someone who has done both:
hacking Gtkmm is millions of times easier than hacking Qt.

So by all means give Qt a go, but don't be surprised if you learn (like I
did) that gtkmm beats it into a cocked hat on almost all fronts.

Charlie - Metropolis Data Consultants - 07976 028167 - 01223 763758

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[Martin (OPENGeoMap)]

better here. 8-)

On Wed, 7 May 2008, Ionutz Borcoman wrote:

  

I, for one, been oscillating between using GTKmm and QT4 for my next pet
project.

After playing with both QT4 and GTKmm for more than a month, I've decided to
use QT4. Maybe try again using GTK/GTKmm in a year.
    

(I don't want to start a flame war (honest) but feel that my 
experience with Qt (and my subsequent conversion to Gtkmm) might serve as 
a warning to those who might be thinking of turning to the darkside.)

I've looked in my crystal ball and predict that after a year of using QT 
you'll welcome back gtkmm with open arms.

Our company used to use Qt until we all became totally fed up to the back 
teeth of its weird inconsistances, loony signal/slot mechanisms, and 
staggeringly poor designer. In comparison, gtkmm is a breeze.

  

Right now, I find the documentation lacking in key areas (for example,
drag&drop in a tree) and I'm tired of waiting for an answer on a mailing
list, answer that might never come, and not in the mood of hacking GTK&GTKmm
sources.
    

If its support you want, you'll not have any luck with Qt either. The Qt 
mailing lists are the same as the Gtkmm ones, if your problem is 
interesting, you'll get an answer. Don't be fooled that just because 
people pay for Qt and there is a proper company behind it, that you're 
going to get any sort of help.

And yes, you *will* have to resort to hacking the Qt code once you've 
exhausted all the othe possibilities, and as someone who has done both: 
hacking Gtkmm is millions of times easier than hacking Qt.

So by all means give Qt a go, but don't be surprised if you learn (like I 
did) that gtkmm beats it into a cocked hat on almost all fronts.

Charlie - Metropolis Data Consultants - 07976 028167 - 01223 763758

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[Murray Cumming]

On Wed, 2008-05-07 at 12:57 +0200, Martin (OpenGeoMap) wrote:
> better here. 8-)

I don't know what the purpose of this particular email was apart from
introducing the silly subject line. But you seem to be just trying to
create an argument. Please don't, or I'll unsubscribe you from the list.

--
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www.openismus.com

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[Murray Cumming]

On Wed, 2008-05-07 at 10:00 +0300, Ionutz Borcoman wrote:
> I, for one, been oscillating between using GTKmm and QT4 for my next pet
> project.
>
> After playing with both QT4 and GTKmm for more than a month, I've decided to
> use QT4. Maybe try again using GTK/GTKmm in a year.
>
> Right now, I find the documentation lacking in key areas (for example,
> drag&drop in a tree)

I'll see what I can add in the book. If you file a bug about it then we
are less likely to forget.

>  and I'm tired of waiting for an answer on a mailing
> list, answer that might never come,

I've looked in the archive, and I can only find three questions from
you. Only your recent (on Saturday) email about treeview drag and drop)
has not yet had an answer. It's rather unclear but I'll do my best again
to parse it.

Of course, not every question gets an answer, though most do if you post
a reminder later, and if they are clear and concise.
 
> and not in the mood of hacking GTK>Kmm
> sources.
>
> For me, the documentation that comes with GTK/GTKmm is the biggest stopper (to
> me, it is extremely disturbing that the latest GTK book, www.gtkbook.com,
> says nothing about Drag&Drop

Our online book has a chapter about drag and drop. We'd like to hear how
it could be improved:
http://www.gtkmm.org/docs/gtkmm-2.4/docs/tutorial/html/chapter-draganddrop.html

There's a small section about treeview drag and drop too:
http://www.gtkmm.org/docs/gtkmm-2.4/docs/tutorial/html/sec-treeview-draganddrop.html

I will make sure that it links directly to the example:
http://www.gtkmm.org/docs/gtkmm-2.4/docs/tutorial/html/sec-treeview-examples.html#treeview-dnd-example


>  or threading - maybe they are there, but I
> couldn't found them - or that the container chapter doesn't talk about the
> Frame widget - not important, but why there is no mention of it?).

Sorry, we really can't directly help to improve a book that we didn't
write. The author would probably welcome feedback.

Our online book has a small section about Gtk::Frame, though there
really isn't much to say about it because it's such a simple container:
http://www.gtkmm.org/docs/gtkmm-2.4/docs/tutorial/html/chapter-container-widgets.html#sec-single-item-containers

--
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[Ionutz Borcoman]

On Wednesday 07 May 2008 2:16:10 pm Murray Cumming wrote:

> On Wed, 2008-05-07 at 10:00 +0300, Ionutz Borcoman wrote:
> >  and I'm tired of waiting for an answer on a mailing
> > list, answer that might never come,
>
> I've looked in the archive, and I can only find three questions from
> you. Only your recent (on Saturday) email about treeview drag and drop)
> has not yet had an answer. It's rather unclear but I'll do my best again
> to parse it.
>
> Of course, not every question gets an answer, though most do if you post
> a reminder later, and if they are clear and concise.

I understand that. I'm also trying again your D&D tree example from the
tutorial, as I might have missed something.

> Sorry, we really can't directly help to improve a book that we didn't
> write. The author would probably welcome feedback.

It was a general remark over the GTK/GTKmm docs. The GTKmm tutorial is quite
good and gets you started. But as everybody knows, it's the final 20% of an
app that takes 80% of the effort :-)

> Our online book has a small section about Gtk::Frame, though there
> really isn't much to say about it because it's such a simple container:
> http://www.gtkmm.org/docs/gtkmm-2.4/docs/tutorial/html/chapter-container-wi
>dgets.html#sec-single-item-containers

The GTK frame was just an example. The GTK book author was stressing a lot
that you should really learn what he taught about containers, because he is
not going to repeat that, but he totally ignored frames. That pissed me a
little :-)

Cheers,

Johnny
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