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508 compliance
by Li, Hao
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Hi there, Does anyone know if the PDF generated by fop 0.93 is 508
compliant or FOP does the effort to make it 508 compliant? Or is it something relevant
to the xml before the transformation not FOP? Any information is greatly appreciated. Thank you very much
in advance. This is urgent to us. Henry |
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Re: 508 compliance
by Andreas L Delmelle
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On Jan 9, 2008, at 18:56, Li, Hao wrote:
> Hi there, > > Does anyone know if the PDF generated by fop 0.93 is 508 compliant > or FOP does the effort to make it 508 compliant? Honestly, I had no idea what is meant by "508 compliance" to begin with. For all those who are interested: http://www.section508.gov/ > Or is it something relevant to the xml before the transformation > not FOP? At first glance, it seems to be something that applies to "accessibility" of information in general (is not restricted to printed media). From what I can tell immediately, I don't think this "508 compliance" holds for documents generated by FOP. Note that the 'Common Accessibility' properties, as defined by the XSL Rec, are for the largest part unimplemented in FOP at the moment. KR Andreas --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: fop-users-unsubscribe@... For additional commands, e-mail: fop-users-help@... |
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Re: 508 compliance
by Christopher R. Maden
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On Wed, 2008-01-09 at 20:29 +0100, Andreas L Delmelle wrote:
> At first glance, it seems to be something that applies to > "accessibility" of information in general (is not restricted to > printed media). Yes. It would be better to make the information available in the PDF available in other formats as well. This was kind of the point of XML and XSL: provide your information via multiple channels. > Note that the 'Common Accessibility' properties, as defined by the > XSL Rec, are for the largest part unimplemented in FOP at the moment. I’m honestly not sure what FOP would do with them, anyway. A single XSL stylesheet might say that emphasis should be both bold and loud, but I would expect a print formatter to ignore the loudness just as I would expect an audio formatter to ignore the boldness. ~Chris -- Chris Maden, text nerd <URL: http://crism.maden.org/ > “Metonymy and synecdoche don’t do the fighting and dying, the soldiers and the townspeople do.” —John Crowley, _Endless Things_ GnuPG Fingerprint: C6E4 E2A9 C9F8 71AC 9724 CAA3 19F8 6677 0077 C319 --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: fop-users-unsubscribe@... For additional commands, e-mail: fop-users-help@... |
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RE: 508 compliance
by Li, Hao
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Thanks Andreas.
Yes. It is about accessibility. Although the pdf can be generated, the customer does not like it because of accessibility issues, for example: missing PDF tags, lacking language specification etc. After searching about tagged pdf, I found http://xmlgraphics.apache.org/fop/trunk/pdfa.html. It seems that PDF/A-1b is implemented, but not PDF/A-1a. Does it mean tagged PDF is not supported yet? I will be testing it as well. If not, do you happen to know nay java plugin or product that can make accessible FO conversion? Thank you very much. -----Original Message----- From: Andreas L Delmelle [mailto:a_l.delmelle@...] Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2008 2:29 PM To: fop-users@... Subject: Re: 508 compliance On Jan 9, 2008, at 18:56, Li, Hao wrote: > Hi there, > > Does anyone know if the PDF generated by fop 0.93 is 508 compliant > or FOP does the effort to make it 508 compliant? Honestly, I had no idea what is meant by "508 compliance" to begin with. For all those who are interested: http://www.section508.gov/ > Or is it something relevant to the xml before the transformation > not FOP? At first glance, it seems to be something that applies to "accessibility" of information in general (is not restricted to printed media). From what I can tell immediately, I don't think this "508 compliance" holds for documents generated by FOP. Note that the 'Common Accessibility' properties, as defined by the XSL Rec, are for the largest part unimplemented in FOP at the moment. KR Andreas --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: fop-users-unsubscribe@... For additional commands, e-mail: fop-users-help@... --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: fop-users-unsubscribe@... For additional commands, e-mail: fop-users-help@... |
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Re: 508 compliance
by Andreas L Delmelle
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On Jan 9, 2008, at 20:51, Christopher R. Maden wrote:
> On Wed, 2008-01-09 at 20:29 +0100, Andreas L Delmelle wrote: >> At first glance, it seems to be something that applies to >> "accessibility" of information in general (is not restricted to >> printed media). > > Yes. It would be better to make the information available in the PDF > available in other formats as well. This was kind of the point of XML > and XSL: provide your information via multiple channels. > >> Note that the 'Common Accessibility' properties, as defined by the >> XSL Rec, are for the largest part unimplemented in FOP at the moment. > > I’m honestly not sure what FOP would do with them, anyway. A > single XSL > stylesheet might say that emphasis should be both bold and loud, but I > would expect a print formatter to ignore the loudness just as I would > expect an audio formatter to ignore the boldness. OK. What I meant was more that, some PDF viewers offer room for both. Adobe Reader has a 'Read Out Loud' option, which is available for PDFs generated by FOP. What I do know for certain is that FOP currently simply ignores the applicable properties, while in theory, it seems that the PDF renderer could actually do something with those. Maybe Adobe Reader could make use of XSL's accessibility properties, if FOP generated extra info in its PDFs. Right now, reading a page out loud is still a quite monotonous experience (worse than the average lecture in a university or parliament ;-)) And then, there is of course the possibility of someone coming up with an AudioRenderer that renders the input document to a series of standard audio output formats, on top of the current output formats. Cheers Andreas --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: fop-users-unsubscribe@... For additional commands, e-mail: fop-users-help@... |
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Re: 508 compliance
by Andreas L Delmelle
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On Jan 9, 2008, at 20:53, Li, Hao wrote: > Thanks Andreas. > > Yes. It is about accessibility. Although the pdf can be generated, the > customer does not like it because of accessibility issues, for > example: > missing PDF tags, lacking language specification etc. > > After searching about tagged pdf, I found > http://xmlgraphics.apache.org/fop/trunk/pdfa.html. It seems that > PDF/A-1b is implemented, but not PDF/A-1a. Does it mean tagged PDF is > not supported yet? Indeed. I know Jeremias recently mentioned tagged PDF as a (rather long term) goal, so there is definitely interest from other parties in adding this functionality as well. > I will be testing it as well. If not, do you happen > to know nay java plugin or product that can make accessible FO > conversion? Maybe you can have a look at post-processors, like iText (http:// www.lowagie.com/iText/) or PDFBox (http://www.pdfbox.org/). They can be used in conjunction with FOP in a fairly straightforward manner. Use FOP to generate the basic PDF, and feed the output to the post-processor for further enhancements. HTH! Cheers Andreas --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: fop-users-unsubscribe@... For additional commands, e-mail: fop-users-help@... |
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Re: 508 compliance
by Jeremias Maerki-2
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On 09.01.2008 21:29:31 Andreas L Delmelle wrote:
> > On Jan 9, 2008, at 20:53, Li, Hao wrote: > > > Thanks Andreas. > > > > Yes. It is about accessibility. Although the pdf can be generated, the > > customer does not like it because of accessibility issues, for > > example: > > missing PDF tags, lacking language specification etc. > > > > After searching about tagged pdf, I found > > http://xmlgraphics.apache.org/fop/trunk/pdfa.html. It seems that > > PDF/A-1b is implemented, but not PDF/A-1a. Does it mean tagged PDF is > > not supported yet? > > Indeed. I know Jeremias recently mentioned tagged PDF as a (rather > long term) goal, so there is definitely interest from other parties > in adding this functionality as well. Right, there is some interest but so far it rather seems to be "nice to have" than "must have". Furthermore, nobody can tell how far we'd have to go with support for Tagged PDF. You can take a minimal approach or go all the way. But in any scenario it will have a larger impact on the area tree and renderers as far as I can judge right now (without having looked into it too closely). > > I will be testing it as well. If not, do you happen > > to know nay java plugin or product that can make accessible FO > > conversion? > > Maybe you can have a look at post-processors, like iText (http:// > www.lowagie.com/iText/) or PDFBox (http://www.pdfbox.org/). > They can be used in conjunction with FOP in a fairly straightforward > manner. Use FOP to generate the basic PDF, and feed the output to the > post-processor for further enhancements. Only they won't help with accessibility. As long as FOP cannot pass on accessibility information from XSL-FO to the PDF there's nothing that any post-processor can magically add. I think there are some commercial XSL-FO implementations that support a certain degree of Tagged PDF but I don't know far they go and if that would cover the 508 requirements. > > HTH! > > Cheers > > Andreas Jeremias Maerki --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: fop-users-unsubscribe@... For additional commands, e-mail: fop-users-help@... |
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RE: 508 compliance
by Li, Hao
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Thanks Jeremias.
Is tagged PDF (PDF/A-1a) on your plan and any possible schedule for implementation? Any decent XSL-FO product you can recommend for a first try? I appreciate it a lot. -----Original Message----- From: Jeremias Maerki [mailto:dev@...] Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2008 3:43 PM To: fop-users@... Subject: Re: 508 compliance On 09.01.2008 21:29:31 Andreas L Delmelle wrote: > > On Jan 9, 2008, at 20:53, Li, Hao wrote: > > > Thanks Andreas. > > > > Yes. It is about accessibility. Although the pdf can be generated, the > > customer does not like it because of accessibility issues, for > > example: > > missing PDF tags, lacking language specification etc. > > > > After searching about tagged pdf, I found > > http://xmlgraphics.apache.org/fop/trunk/pdfa.html. It seems that > > PDF/A-1b is implemented, but not PDF/A-1a. Does it mean tagged PDF is > > not supported yet? > > Indeed. I know Jeremias recently mentioned tagged PDF as a (rather > long term) goal, so there is definitely interest from other parties > in adding this functionality as well. Right, there is some interest but so far it rather seems to be "nice to have" than "must have". Furthermore, nobody can tell how far we'd have to go with support for Tagged PDF. You can take a minimal approach or go all the way. But in any scenario it will have a larger impact on the area tree and renderers as far as I can judge right now (without having looked into it too closely). > > I will be testing it as well. If not, do you happen > > to know nay java plugin or product that can make accessible FO > > conversion? > > Maybe you can have a look at post-processors, like iText (http:// > www.lowagie.com/iText/) or PDFBox (http://www.pdfbox.org/). > They can be used in conjunction with FOP in a fairly straightforward > manner. Use FOP to generate the basic PDF, and feed the output to the > post-processor for further enhancements. Only they won't help with accessibility. As long as FOP cannot pass on accessibility information from XSL-FO to the PDF there's nothing that any post-processor can magically add. I think there are some commercial XSL-FO implementations that support a certain degree of Tagged PDF but I don't know far they go and if that would cover the 508 requirements. > > HTH! > > Cheers > > Andreas Jeremias Maerki --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: fop-users-unsubscribe@... For additional commands, e-mail: fop-users-help@... --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: fop-users-unsubscribe@... For additional commands, e-mail: fop-users-help@... |
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Re: 508 compliance
by Jeremias Maerki-2
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On 10.01.2008 15:44:02 Li, Hao wrote:
> Thanks Jeremias. > > Is tagged PDF (PDF/A-1a) on your plan and any possible schedule for > implementation? No, it's not on any plan, yet, and therefore, there's no schedule. It's just that some of my clients are playing with the idea but the itch isn't strong enough, yet. > Any decent XSL-FO product you can recommend for a first try? AntennaHouse > I appreciate it a lot. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jeremias Maerki [mailto:dev@...] > Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2008 3:43 PM > To: fop-users@... > Subject: Re: 508 compliance > > On 09.01.2008 21:29:31 Andreas L Delmelle wrote: > > > > On Jan 9, 2008, at 20:53, Li, Hao wrote: > > > > > Thanks Andreas. > > > > > > Yes. It is about accessibility. Although the pdf can be generated, > the > > > customer does not like it because of accessibility issues, for > > > example: > > > missing PDF tags, lacking language specification etc. > > > > > > After searching about tagged pdf, I found > > > http://xmlgraphics.apache.org/fop/trunk/pdfa.html. It seems that > > > PDF/A-1b is implemented, but not PDF/A-1a. Does it mean tagged PDF > is > > > not supported yet? > > > > Indeed. I know Jeremias recently mentioned tagged PDF as a (rather > > long term) goal, so there is definitely interest from other parties > > in adding this functionality as well. > > Right, there is some interest but so far it rather seems to be "nice to > have" than "must have". Furthermore, nobody can tell how far we'd have > to go with support for Tagged PDF. You can take a minimal approach or go > all the way. But in any scenario it will have a larger impact on the > area tree and renderers as far as I can judge right now (without having > looked into it too closely). > > > > I will be testing it as well. If not, do you happen > > > to know nay java plugin or product that can make accessible FO > > > conversion? > > > > Maybe you can have a look at post-processors, like iText (http:// > > www.lowagie.com/iText/) or PDFBox (http://www.pdfbox.org/). > > They can be used in conjunction with FOP in a fairly straightforward > > manner. Use FOP to generate the basic PDF, and feed the output to the > > > post-processor for further enhancements. > > Only they won't help with accessibility. As long as FOP cannot pass on > accessibility information from XSL-FO to the PDF there's nothing that > any post-processor can magically add. > > I think there are some commercial XSL-FO implementations that support a > certain degree of Tagged PDF but I don't know far they go and if that > would cover the 508 requirements. > > > > > HTH! > > > > Cheers > > > > Andreas > > > Jeremias Maerki > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: fop-users-unsubscribe@... > For additional commands, e-mail: fop-users-help@... > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: fop-users-unsubscribe@... > For additional commands, e-mail: fop-users-help@... > Jeremias Maerki --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: fop-users-unsubscribe@... For additional commands, e-mail: fop-users-help@... |
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RE: 508 compliance
by sheehan
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StyleVision from Altova is a good product that writes out XSL-FO to include a PDF from XML and or database tables. Thanks Jeremias.
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RE: Page Properties "Tab Order"
by Li, Hao
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Hi, You may already know that each
PDF page has a property called "Tab Order" with four choices: Use Row
Order, Use Column Order, Use Doucment Structure, Unspecified. I was wondering if we can
specify it in FOP so that the result PDF file will have Tab Order defined such
as "Use Document Structure". Thank you very much, Hao |
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Re: Page Properties "Tab Order"
by Jeremias Maerki-2
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What you're referring to is a PDF 1.5 feature ("Tab" on the page object).
Apache FOP currently generates PDF 1.4 only. So this is not implemented, yet. Good patches are always welcome. On 15.07.2008 23:01:06 Li, Hao wrote: > Hi, > > You may already know that each PDF page has a property called "Tab > Order" with four choices: Use Row Order, Use Column Order, Use Doucment > Structure, Unspecified. > > I was wondering if we can specify it in FOP so that the result PDF file > will have Tab Order defined such as "Use Document Structure". > > Thank you very much, > > Hao Jeremias Maerki --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: fop-users-unsubscribe@... For additional commands, e-mail: fop-users-help@... |
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