0.6.0-10 PSPP windows - Queries (WinXP)

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0.6.0-10 PSPP windows - Queries (WinXP)

by David Purdy-3 :: Rate this Message:

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I've recently installed the version 0.6.0-10 on a Windows XP Pro (SP3) machine with 2 Gb RAM, and would welcome any assistance with a couple of queries.
 
1) Very long file save time ? - I'm using a large third party SPSS .sav file (417 fields x 510,121 records = 265 Mb), but am only interested in 7 fields.   To ease the processing load, I deleted the unwanted fields in PSPP, but the resultant .sav file took over 90 minutes to save (9 Mb).   Are there any settings that could be adjusted to reduce the file save time ?
 
2) Copy from Output1 Window ? - The select all/copy doesn't appear to paste into Windows notepad or Word 2003.   Is there another way of saving the output data ?
 
TIA.
 
Regards,
 
Dave.
- PSPP New user
- Some experience with licensed SPSS v10/12
 
Updated version of PSPP for windows setup available
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From:  unknown-1
Subject:  Updated version of PSPP for windows setup available
Date:  Tue, 1 Jul 2008 20:36:53 +0200
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hi
 
There is a newer version, 0.6.0-10, of the PSPP for windows setup available. You can find them on:
http://myfreefilehosting.com/f/5730214407_64.34MB
or
http://rapidshare.de/files/39885164/PSPP-0.6.0-10-Setup.zip.html
 
[cut]

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Re: 0.6.0-10 PSPP windows - Queries (WinXP)

by Ben Pfaff :: Rate this Message:

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"David Purdy" <David_Purdy@...> writes:

> 1) Very long file save time ? - I'm using a large third party SPSS .sav file
> (417 fields x 510,121 records = 265 Mb), but am only interested in 7 fields.  
> To ease the processing load, I deleted the unwanted fields in PSPP, but the
> resultant .sav file took over 90 minutes to save (9 Mb).   Are there any
> settings that could be adjusted to reduce the file save time ?

Wow!  That's a long time.  I don't know, off-hand, why it would
take that long.  Is the disk active during that time?  Is PSPP
using a lot of CPU time?  Is this in the GUI or the command-line
syntax version?

Increasing the workspace to a value larger than the size of your
file might help, e.g. SET WORKSPACE=300000.

> 2) Copy from Output1 Window ? - The select all/copy doesn't
> appear to paste into Windows notepad or Word 2003.  Is there
> another way of saving the output data ?

I vaguely remember another Windows user reporting the same
problem.  I think that this must be a Windows-specific bug that
we will have to have a Windows developers take a look at.
--
Ben Pfaff
http://benpfaff.org


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Re: 0.6.0-10 PSPP windows - Queries (WinXP)

by David Purdy-3 :: Rate this Message:

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Ben,
 
Many thanks for the feedback.
 
> 1) Very long file save time ?
 
I was using the GUI version - the disk didn't seem to be especially active, nor PSPP using a lot of CPU time (I think).   I should mention that the file was saved in the 'portable' format (9Mb/90mins) - I've since saved the 'portable' file in the 'system' format instead (3Mb/2 mins), and the 'system' version also seems to load much more quickly.
 
Presumably the Command line version is pspp.exe ? - Although C:\Cygwin\usr\local\bin\pspp.exe won't run, an error message says it can't find cygwin1.dll (it's here: C:\Cygwin\bin\cygwin1.dll)
 
> 2) Copy from Output1 Window ?
 
I've noticed that, after a frequency computation, a file called C:\Cygwin\psppire.txt is created - which contains the output (but the file disappears immediately after 'quitting !).
 
Also, when following the frequency computation with a crosstabs computation, the crosstabs computation seems to take a long time, but this is shortened considerably by *deleting* psppire.txt *in between* the two computations - the crosstabs computation having then created its own output file, also called psppire.txt
 
Regards,
 
Dave.
 
----- Original Message -----
From: blp@...
Sent: Friday, August 01, 2008 4:52 AM
Subject: Re: 0.6.0-10 PSPP windows - Queries (WinXP)

"David Purdy" writes:

> 1) Very long file save time ? - I'm using a large third party SPSS .sav file
> (417 fields x 510,121 records = 265 Mb), but am only interested in 7 fields. 
> To ease the processing load, I deleted the unwanted fields in PSPP, but the
> resultant .sav file took over 90 minutes to save (9 Mb).   Are there any
> settings that could be adjusted to reduce the file save time ?

Wow!  That's a long time.  I don't know, off-hand, why it would
take that long.  Is the disk active during that time?  Is PSPP
using a lot of CPU time?  Is this in the GUI or the command-line
syntax version?

Increasing the workspace to a value larger than the size of your
file might help, e.g. SET WORKSPACE=300000.

> 2) Copy from Output1 Window ? - The select all/copy doesn't
> appear to paste into Windows notepad or Word 2003.  Is there
> another way of saving the output data ?

I vaguely remember another Windows user reporting the same
problem.  I think that this must be a Windows-specific bug that
we will have to have a Windows developers take a look at.
--
Ben Pfaff
http://benpfaff.org

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Parent Message unknown Re: 0.6.0-10 PSPP windows - Queries (WinXP)

by unknown-1 :: Rate this Message:

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Hi

>> 2) Copy from Output1 Window ? - The select all/copy doesn't
>> appear to paste into Windows notepad or Word 2003. Is there
>> another way of saving the output data ?

>I vaguely remember another Windows user reporting the same
>problem. I think that this must be a Windows-specific bug that
>we will have to have a Windows developers take a look at.

Right this is reported before.
<http://savannah.gnu.org/bugs/?23568>

>Presumably the Command line version is pspp.exe ? - Although C:\Cygwin\usr\local\bin\pspp.exe won't run, an error message says it can't find cygwin1.dll (it's here: C:\Cygwin\bin\cygwin1.dll)

It is not that easy. You have to use the cygwin environemnt. Start a dosbox, execute the .bat file I attached to this message as *.ba and after that you can start PSPP in commandline mode.

>
I've noticed that, after a frequency computation, a file called C:\Cygwin\psppire.txt is created - which contains the output (but the file disappears immediately after 'quitting !).

I guess this is the only way you can copy the output before you quit. :-( But this is strange. This file should be in your windows temp directory. Is there a temp directory on your installation?

Have fun.


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pspp-start2.ba (1K) Download Attachment

Re: 0.6.0-10 PSPP windows - Queries (WinXP)

by David Purdy-3 :: Rate this Message:

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Many thanks for the feedback and the .bat file.
 
"Is there a temp directory on your installation?"   Three:
 
C:\Cygwin\var\tmp
C:\Cygwin\usr\tmp
C:\Cygwin\tmp
 
Regards,
 
Dave.
----- Original Message -----
From: pspp@...
Sent: Saturday, August 02, 2008 7:31 PM
Subject: Re: 0.6.0-10 PSPP windows - Queries (WinXP)

Hi

>> 2) Copy from Output1 Window ? - The select all/copy doesn't
>> appear to paste into Windows notepad or Word 2003. Is there
>> another way of saving the output data ?

>I vaguely remember another Windows user reporting the same
>problem. I think that this must be a Windows-specific bug that
>we will have to have a Windows developers take a look at.

Right this is reported before.
<http://savannah.gnu.org/bugs/?23568>

>Presumably the Command line version is pspp.exe ? - Although C:\Cygwin\usr\local\bin\pspp.exe won't run, an error message says it can't find cygwin1.dll (it's here: C:\Cygwin\bin\cygwin1.dll)

It is not that easy. You have to use the cygwin environemnt. Start a dosbox, execute the .bat file I attached to this message as *.ba and after that you can start PSPP in commandline mode.

>
I've noticed that, after a frequency computation, a file called C:\Cygwin\psppire.txt is created - which contains the output (but the file disappears immediately after 'quitting !).

I guess this is the only way you can copy the output before you quit. :-( But this is strange. This file should be in your windows temp directory. Is there a temp directory on your installation?

Have fun.


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Re: 0.6.0-10 PSPP windows - Queries (WinXP)

by unknown-1 :: Rate this Message:

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Hi Dave

I mean a Windows temp directory. The one witch is reported when you type the command "set temp".

Have fun

2008/8/2 David Purdy <David_Purdy@...>
Many thanks for the feedback and the .bat file.
 
"Is there a temp directory on your installation?"   Three:
 
C:\Cygwin\var\tmp
C:\Cygwin\usr\tmp
C:\Cygwin\tmp
 
Regards,
 
Dave.
----- Original Message -----
From: pspp@...
Sent: Saturday, August 02, 2008 7:31 PM
Subject: Re: 0.6.0-10 PSPP windows - Queries (WinXP)

Hi

>> 2) Copy from Output1 Window ? - The select all/copy doesn't
>> appear to paste into Windows notepad or Word 2003. Is there
>> another way of saving the output data ?

>I vaguely remember another Windows user reporting the same
>problem. I think that this must be a Windows-specific bug that
>we will have to have a Windows developers take a look at.

Right this is reported before.
<http://savannah.gnu.org/bugs/?23568>

>Presumably the Command line version is pspp.exe ? - Although C:\Cygwin\usr\local\bin\pspp.exe won't run, an error message says it can't find cygwin1.dll (it's here: C:\Cygwin\bin\cygwin1.dll)

It is not that easy. You have to use the cygwin environemnt. Start a dosbox, execute the .bat file I attached to this message as *.ba and after that you can start PSPP in commandline mode.

>
I've noticed that, after a frequency computation, a file called C:\Cygwin\psppire.txt is created - which contains the output (but the file disappears immediately after 'quitting !).

I guess this is the only way you can copy the output before you quit. :-( But this is strange. This file should be in your windows temp directory. Is there a temp directory on your installation?

Have fun.


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Re: 0.6.0-10 PSPP windows - Queries (WinXP)

by David Purdy-3 :: Rate this Message:

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Sorry ...
 
C:\Documents and Settings\David>set temp
Environment variable temp not defined
Regards,
 
Dave.
----- Original Message -----
From: pspp@...
Sent: Saturday, August 02, 2008 8:54 PM
Subject: Re: 0.6.0-10 PSPP windows - Queries (WinXP)

Hi Dave

I mean a Windows temp directory. The one witch is reported when you type the command "set temp".

Have fun

2008/8/2 David Purdy <David_Purdy@...>
Many thanks for the feedback and the .bat file.
 
"Is there a temp directory on your installation?"   Three:
 
C:\Cygwin\var\tmp
C:\Cygwin\usr\tmp
C:\Cygwin\tmp
 
Regards,
 
Dave.
----- Original Message -----
From: pspp@...
Sent: Saturday, August 02, 2008 7:31 PM
Subject: Re: 0.6.0-10 PSPP windows - Queries (WinXP)

Hi

>> 2) Copy from Output1 Window ? - The select all/copy doesn't
>> appear to paste into Windows notepad or Word 2003. Is there
>> another way of saving the output data ?

>I vaguely remember another Windows user reporting the same
>problem. I think that this must be a Windows-specific bug that
>we will have to have a Windows developers take a look at.

Right this is reported before.
<http://savannah.gnu.org/bugs/?23568>

>Presumably the Command line version is pspp.exe ? - Although C:\Cygwin\usr\local\bin\pspp.exe won't run, an error message says it can't find cygwin1.dll (it's here: C:\Cygwin\bin\cygwin1.dll)

It is not that easy. You have to use the cygwin environemnt. Start a dosbox, execute the .bat file I attached to this message as *.ba and after that you can start PSPP in commandline mode.

>
I've noticed that, after a frequency computation, a file called C:\Cygwin\psppire.txt is created - which contains the output (but the file disappears immediately after 'quitting !).

I guess this is the only way you can copy the output before you quit. :-( But this is strange. This file should be in your windows temp directory. Is there a temp directory on your installation?

Have fun.


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Pspp-users@...
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Re: 0.6.0-10 PSPP windows - Queries (WinXP)

by unknown-1 :: Rate this Message:

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Hmm.. I am surprised that XP works without temp. I guess you have a lot of ram. (and some problems)

Is there a tmp environment variable? Check it with "set tmp".

It is normal that you have a tmp and temp environment variable. I would advice:
- In your case, check if C:\Documents and Settings\David\Local Settings\Temp is available. If not create it.
- go to "This computer" right mouse click and then "preferences". Choose "advanced". Choose "environment variables".
 (the names might differ on your computer because I use windows in my own language. So my translation ccould be wrong.)
- Create a new one with the name "temp"  and the value "%userprofile%\Local Settings\Temp"
- if there is a tmp environment variable, this should have the same value. Otherwise I would say create it also. Few programs use it, but is is better to have the variable and let it point to the same directory.
- reboot

I wonder if this helps with the issues.

Have fun.


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Re: 0.6.0-10 PSPP windows - Queries (WinXP)

by David Purdy-3 :: Rate this Message:

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Thanks, again.   I've set up both temp & tmp as WinXP environment variables, as suggested, and am concentrating on PSPP Windows just for the moment.
 
There seems to be an ongoing issue with psppire.txt (which contains the analysis output), whereby its existence may be hindering/stopping 2nd and subsequent analyses.
 
After launching in PSPP Windows, the *first* use of say a crosstab is fine, and creates:
 
C:\Documents and Settings\David\Local Settings\Temp\psppire.txt
   (used to be C:\Cygwin\psppire.txt with temp & tmp not set as environment variables)
 
However, the next (say crosstab) analysis seems not to materialise.   Quitting and restarting allows another analysis, but the problem reappears thereafter.
 
Regards,
 
Dave.
----- Original Message -----
From: pspp@...
Sent: Saturday, August 02, 2008 9:42 PM
Subject: Re: 0.6.0-10 PSPP windows - Queries (WinXP)


Hmm.. I am surprised that XP works without temp. I guess you have a lot of ram. (and some problems)

Is there a tmp environment variable? Check it with "set tmp".

It is normal that you have a tmp and temp environment variable. I would advice:
- In your case, check if C:\Documents and Settings\David\Local Settings\Temp is available. If not create it.
- go to "This computer" right mouse click and then "preferences". Choose "advanced". Choose "environment variables".
 (the names might differ on your computer because I use windows in my own language. So my translation ccould be wrong.)
- Create a new one with the name "temp"  and the value "%userprofile%\Local Settings\Temp"
- if there is a tmp environment variable, this should have the same value. Otherwise I would say create it also. Few programs use it, but is is better to have the variable and let it point to the same directory.
- reboot

I wonder if this helps with the issues.

Have fun.

 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, August 02, 2008 9:09 PM
Subject: Re: 0.6.0-10 PSPP windows - Queries (WinXP)

Sorry ...
 
C:\Documents and Settings\David>set temp
Environment variable temp not defined
Regards,
 
Dave.
----- Original Message -----
From: pspp@...
Sent: Saturday, August 02, 2008 8:54 PM
Subject: Re: 0.6.0-10 PSPP windows - Queries (WinXP)

Hi Dave

I mean a Windows temp directory. The one witch is reported when you type the command "set temp".

Have fun

2008/8/2 David Purdy <David_Purdy@...>
Many thanks for the feedback and the .bat file.
 
"Is there a temp directory on your installation?"   Three:
 
C:\Cygwin\var\tmp
C:\Cygwin\usr\tmp
C:\Cygwin\tmp
 
Regards,
 
Dave.
----- Original Message -----
From: pspp@...
Sent: Saturday, August 02, 2008 7:31 PM
Subject: Re: 0.6.0-10 PSPP windows - Queries (WinXP)

Hi

>> 2) Copy from Output1 Window ? - The select all/copy doesn't
>> appear to paste into Windows notepad or Word 2003. Is there
>> another way of saving the output data ?

>I vaguely remember another Windows user reporting the same
>problem. I think that this must be a Windows-specific bug that
>we will have to have a Windows developers take a look at.

Right this is reported before.
<http://savannah.gnu.org/bugs/?23568>

>Presumably the Command line version is pspp.exe ? - Although C:\Cygwin\usr\local\bin\pspp.exe won't run, an error message says it can't find cygwin1.dll (it's here: C:\Cygwin\bin\cygwin1.dll)

It is not that easy. You have to use the cygwin environemnt. Start a dosbox, execute the .bat file I attached to this message as *.ba and after that you can start PSPP in commandline mode.

>
I've noticed that, after a frequency computation, a file called C:\Cygwin\psppire.txt is created - which contains the output (but the file disappears immediately after 'quitting !).

I guess this is the only way you can copy the output before you quit. :-( But this is strange. This file should be in your windows temp directory. Is there a temp directory on your installation?

Have fun.


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Re: 0.6.0-10 PSPP windows - Queries (WinXP)

by unknown-1 :: Rate this Message:

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Hi Dave

Unfortunately I couldn't reproduce your problem on WindowsXP/SP3 or SP2. I use the (free) program editpadlite http://www.editpadpro.com/editpadlite.html for viewing the psppire.txt file.  I assume there are more text editors which give a good result. I can imagine that a editor may lock the psppire.txt file and cause the problem you describe.

Would you mind checking if it works with editpadlite ?

And I am eager to hear if introducing the temp variable solved the problem with the long waiting times?

Have fun.


2008/8/3 David Purdy <David_Purdy@...>
Thanks, again.   I've set up both temp & tmp as WinXP environment variables, as suggested, and am concentrating on PSPP Windows just for the moment.
 
There seems to be an ongoing issue with psppire.txt (which contains the analysis output), whereby its existence may be hindering/stopping 2nd and subsequent analyses.
 
After launching in PSPP Windows, the *first* use of say a crosstab is fine, and creates:
 
C:\Documents and Settings\David\Local Settings\Temp\psppire.txt
   (used to be C:\Cygwin\psppire.txt with temp & tmp not set as environment variables)
 
However, the next (say crosstab) analysis seems not to materialise.   Quitting and restarting allows another analysis, but the problem reappears thereafter.
 
Regards,
 
Dave.
----- Original Message -----
From: pspp@...
Sent: Saturday, August 02, 2008 9:42 PM
Subject: Re: 0.6.0-10 PSPP windows - Queries (WinXP)


Hmm.. I am surprised that XP works without temp. I guess you have a lot of ram. (and some problems)

Is there a tmp environment variable? Check it with "set tmp".

It is normal that you have a tmp and temp environment variable. I would advice:
- In your case, check if C:\Documents and Settings\David\Local Settings\Temp is available. If not create it.
- go to "This computer" right mouse click and then "preferences". Choose "advanced". Choose "environment variables".
 (the names might differ on your computer because I use windows in my own language. So my translation ccould be wrong.)
- Create a new one with the name "temp"  and the value "%userprofile%\Local Settings\Temp"
- if there is a tmp environment variable, this should have the same value. Otherwise I would say create it also. Few programs use it, but is is better to have the variable and let it point to the same directory.
- reboot

I wonder if this helps with the issues.

Have fun.

 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, August 02, 2008 9:09 PM
Subject: Re: 0.6.0-10 PSPP windows - Queries (WinXP)

Sorry ...
 
C:\Documents and Settings\David>set temp
Environment variable temp not defined
Regards,
 
Dave.
----- Original Message -----
From: pspp@...
Sent: Saturday, August 02, 2008 8:54 PM
Subject: Re: 0.6.0-10 PSPP windows - Queries (WinXP)

Hi Dave

I mean a Windows temp directory. The one witch is reported when you type the command "set temp".

Have fun

2008/8/2 David Purdy <David_Purdy@...>
Many thanks for the feedback and the .bat file.
 
"Is there a temp directory on your installation?"   Three:
 
C:\Cygwin\var\tmp
C:\Cygwin\usr\tmp
C:\Cygwin\tmp
 
Regards,
 
Dave.
----- Original Message -----
From: pspp@...
Sent: Saturday, August 02, 2008 7:31 PM
Subject: Re: 0.6.0-10 PSPP windows - Queries (WinXP)

Hi

>> 2) Copy from Output1 Window ? - The select all/copy doesn't
>> appear to paste into Windows notepad or Word 2003. Is there
>> another way of saving the output data ?

>I vaguely remember another Windows user reporting the same
>problem. I think that this must be a Windows-specific bug that
>we will have to have a Windows developers take a look at.

Right this is reported before.
<http://savannah.gnu.org/bugs/?23568>

>Presumably the Command line version is pspp.exe ? - Although C:\Cygwin\usr\local\bin\pspp.exe won't run, an error message says it can't find cygwin1.dll (it's here: C:\Cygwin\bin\cygwin1.dll)

It is not that easy. You have to use the cygwin environemnt. Start a dosbox, execute the .bat file I attached to this message as *.ba and after that you can start PSPP in commandline mode.

>
I've noticed that, after a frequency computation, a file called C:\Cygwin\psppire.txt is created - which contains the output (but the file disappears immediately after 'quitting !).

I guess this is the only way you can copy the output before you quit. :-( But this is strange. This file should be in your windows temp directory. Is there a temp directory on your installation?

Have fun.


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Pspp-users@...
http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/pspp-users


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Re: 0.6.0-10 PSPP windows - Queries (WinXP)

by David Purdy-3 :: Rate this Message:

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OK:
 
1) psppire.txt - editpadlite won't open it: "Access is denied" (and ditto with the same message using Windows Notepad)
 
2) Quicker 'Save' - I've had some mixed results, maybe influenced by working with a large file (>500,000 records).   After trying something similar to the very slow save reported earlier (after deleting all but about 7 fields), I got the impression that the file was being created much more quickly.
 
However, with other tests, I've also encountered PSPP Windows being closed almost immediately after the Save instruction, and having also created this file:
 
C:\Documents and Settings\David\Local Settings\Temp\psppire.exe.stackdump
 
Regards,
 
Dave.
 
----- Original Message -----
From: pspp@...
Sent: Sunday, August 03, 2008 4:34 PM
Subject: Re: 0.6.0-10 PSPP windows - Queries (WinXP)

Hi Dave

Unfortunately I couldn't reproduce your problem on WindowsXP/SP3 or SP2. I use the (free) program editpadlite http://www.editpadpro.com/editpadlite.html for viewing the psppire.txt file.  I assume there are more text editors which give a good result. I can imagine that a editor may lock the psppire.txt file and cause the problem you describe.

Would you mind checking if it works with editpadlite ?

And I am eager to hear if introducing the temp variable solved the problem with the long waiting times?

Have fun.


2008/8/3 David Purdy <David_Purdy@...>
Thanks, again.   I've set up both temp & tmp as WinXP environment variables, as suggested, and am concentrating on PSPP Windows just for the moment.
 
There seems to be an ongoing issue with psppire.txt (which contains the analysis output), whereby its existence may be hindering/stopping 2nd and subsequent analyses.
 
After launching in PSPP Windows, the *first* use of say a crosstab is fine, and creates:
 
C:\Documents and Settings\David\Local Settings\Temp\psppire.txt
   (used to be C:\Cygwin\psppire.txt with temp & tmp not set as environment variables)
 
However, the next (say crosstab) analysis seems not to materialise.   Quitting and restarting allows another analysis, but the problem reappears thereafter.
 
Regards,
 
Dave.
----- Original Message -----
From: pspp@...
Sent: Saturday, August 02, 2008 9:42 PM
Subject: Re: 0.6.0-10 PSPP windows - Queries (WinXP)


Hmm.. I am surprised that XP works without temp. I guess you have a lot of ram. (and some problems)

Is there a tmp environment variable? Check it with "set tmp".

It is normal that you have a tmp and temp environment variable. I would advice:
- In your case, check if C:\Documents and Settings\David\Local Settings\Temp is available. If not create it.
- go to "This computer" right mouse click and then "preferences". Choose "advanced". Choose "environment variables".
 (the names might differ on your computer because I use windows in my own language. So my translation ccould be wrong.)
- Create a new one with the name "temp"  and the value "%userprofile%\Local Settings\Temp"
- if there is a tmp environment variable, this should have the same value. Otherwise I would say create it also. Few programs use it, but is is better to have the variable and let it point to the same directory.
- reboot

I wonder if this helps with the issues.

Have fun.

 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, August 02, 2008 9:09 PM
Subject: Re: 0.6.0-10 PSPP windows - Queries (WinXP)

Sorry ...
 
C:\Documents and Settings\David>set temp
Environment variable temp not defined
Regards,
 
Dave.
----- Original Message -----
From: pspp@...
Sent: Saturday, August 02, 2008 8:54 PM
Subject: Re: 0.6.0-10 PSPP windows - Queries (WinXP)

Hi Dave

I mean a Windows temp directory. The one witch is reported when you type the command "set temp".

Have fun

2008/8/2 David Purdy <David_Purdy@...>
Many thanks for the feedback and the .bat file.
 
"Is there a temp directory on your installation?"   Three:
 
C:\Cygwin\var\tmp
C:\Cygwin\usr\tmp
C:\Cygwin\tmp
 
Regards,
 
Dave.
----- Original Message -----
From: pspp@...
Sent: Saturday, August 02, 2008 7:31 PM