0-360 lens

[lake00us]

Anyone on this board using this tool?

I am looking to get into panaoramas and would like to know your
comments on this tool

I may grow to better tools once I get my feet wet. What would be the
nice entry level to begin with?

I own a Nikon d-40

[Uri Cogan]

lake00us wrote:


> Anyone on this board using this tool?
>
> I am looking to get into panaoramas and would like to know your
> comments on this tool
>








I've never used it; it appears to be ok for quick circular  (not
spherical) panoramas. The advantage may be it's one-shot; the
disadvantage may be loss of zenith and nadir and possibly loss of
optical quality.

Most panoramas are taken with a fisheye or with a very wide angle lens,
using a VR panorama head. The D40 camera could be quite satisfactory -
the quality depends a lot more on the lens. The Nikon 10.5mm fisheye and
the Sigma 8mm lenses are quite popular.

An excellent source for reference to lenses, panorama heads and
software, plus tutorials is at:

http://panoramas.dk/panorama/index.html

Uri
http://www.uricogan.com


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Rick Drew]

I had one for a few years, hardly used it, and sold it.  They shoot a
doughnut image. If you discount the black/unused area, that accounts for
about 30% of the image.  So you're loosing 30% of your pixels right off the
top. Then there's a small crop factor when unwrapping the image.  The
quality?  Really, really soft.  You're better off purchasing a fisheye.  The
only things the oneshot lens is good for is 360 video (still soft focus) and
really, really busy scenes.

 

Rick



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Robert Harshman]

--- In PanoToolsNG@..., "lake00us" <al@...> wrote:
>
> Anyone on this board using this tool?
>  
> I own a Nikon d-40
>
Mirror systems are great for low res very quick to shoot and process
virtual tours. they are mainly used in cheapo real estate work and
other shoots that do not require much in the way of quality or more
than a 90-100 vertical FOV.

They work quite well for what they are, but are best used with Point
and Shoot type cameras as you need a very large Depth of Field to get
most of the mirror in any kind of focus. you also typically need a
lens that can focus within 1 foot or less. the other reason to use a
P&S with an articulated display is using an SLR shooting straight up
is not a position I'll recommend to anyone on a on-going basis.

the 0-360 is probably one of the best ones and one of the few left in
business. Most of the mirror providers from the past moved on to
security systems, etc. where they are quite effective and the profit
margins and markets are much larger.

If you are happy with small (think about 640 by 480 pixel virtual tour
windows as large) and a vertical FOV of less than 100 degrees then it
might work for you, But do not think it will prepare you for shooting
stitched VR's, at least in the post processing or shooting skills needed.

Regards,

Robert

[bohonus]

--- In PanoToolsNG@..., "robert_harshman" <image360@...> wrote:

> They work quite well for what they are, but are best used with Point
> and Shoot type cameras as you need a very large Depth of Field to get
> most of the mirror in any kind of focus. you also typically need a
> lens that can focus within 1 foot or less.

You don't focus on the mirror (unless you want a perfect image of the spots and dust on it),
you focus on what the mirror is reflecting.

[Erik Krause]

On Tuesday, July 22, 2008 at 4:07, bohonus wrote:

> > They work quite well for what they are, but are best used with Point
> > and Shoot type cameras as you need a very large Depth of Field to get
> > most of the mirror in any kind of focus. you also typically need a
> > lens that can focus within 1 foot or less.
>
> You don't focus on the mirror (unless you want a perfect image of the spots
> and dust on it), you focus on what the mirror is reflecting.

True so far, but the virtual image is not far behind the mirror if it
is a convex one. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curved_mirror for
details.

best regards
Erik Krause
http://www.erik-krause.de

[Robert Harshman]

>
> You don't focus on the mirror (unless you want a perfect image of
the spots and dust on it),
> you focus on what the mirror is reflecting.
>

OK, while true, this mirror system in particular requires a very close
focus, almost macro lens required. And you don't focus at the subject
in the mirror but at a fixed point in space beyond the mirror. I've
used or tried 5 different mirror systems in the past and they all had
different points of focus at a fixed point for every shot regardless
of how close or far the subject was.

The 0-360 system use to say they supported a 120 vertical FOV, now
stated as 110? But what they don't say is with any camera I every
tried with them either the far or near edge will be very soft, even
for a mirror system, giving you 90-95 degrees of useful vertical FOV
unless you shoot multiple shots with different points of focus which
kind of defeats the purpose of a "one" shot system.

On that note, they are easy to bracket with.

Regards,

Robert

[bohonus]

--- In PanoToolsNG@..., "robert_harshman" <image360@...> wrote:
> OK, while true, this mirror system in particular requires a very close
> focus, almost macro lens required. And you don't focus at the subject
> in the mirror but at a fixed point in space beyond the mirror. I've
> used or tried 5 different mirror systems in the past and they all had
> different points of focus at a fixed point for every shot regardless
> of how close or far the subject was.

ah, interesting :)

Can it help to extend the mirror a bit farther from the camera?


> The 0-360 system use to say they supported a 120 vertical FOV, now
> stated as 110? But what they don't say is with any camera I every
> tried with them either the far or near edge will be very soft, even
> for a mirror system, giving you 90-95 degrees of useful vertical FOV
> unless you shoot multiple shots with different points of focus which
> kind of defeats the purpose of a "one" shot system.

Most compact cameras (that I would assume people use with these) don't have a very
good selection of apertures. Would a DSLR with proper lens stepped down enough clear
that up?
 
> On that note, they are easy to bracket with.
>
> Regards,
>
> Robert
>

[Milko K. Amorth]

Hi Robert,
> The 0-360 system use to say they supported a 120 vertical FOV, now
> stated as 110?
Its always been 115° (52.5 above and 62.5 below horizon) that is if you
manage to be level.
The built is not very precise. Your focus theory discussion baffles me a
bit though.

You image a parabolic mirror and there is no beyond. It does not matter
how far or close the subjects are to the refection surface.
You want to focus on the horizon of the mirror image which is an
'annulus' projection from a cone.
Your depth of field capabilities will determine sharpness of the whole
fov range. Point and shoot cameras or video cams are particularily
better suited for this due their greater depth of field as slr systems.
You can fix your settings by trying to calibrate to their cone target
you can download. That cone comes in very handy when buying for the
right cam for this mirror!

>  But what they don't say is with any camera I every
> tried with them either the far or near edge will be very soft, even
> for a mirror system, giving you 90-95 degrees of useful vertical FOV
> unless you shoot multiple shots with different points of focus which
> kind of defeats the purpose of a "one" shot system.
>  
Depth of field is the key here. It has to be 7 cm on a distance of 20cm
to get all the reflections.....not many systems can cover that.
Using an slr system will have you shoot at f22 or f32 if you can.
Defraction and dust will come naturally at this aperture on dslr.
Plus...if you are not level you're cropping again. I found the mirror
head and stem mount to be very cheap and had to replace washers numerous
times. The level eye is also for the birds. You are going to have to
calibrate it for your setup.

There is also a mirror from GB, can't remember the name of the product
right now, but it does 140° fov! A replacement mirror also only costs
below $100, if i remember correctly.



Cheers, Milko

--
Milko K.Amorth
ph:604.561.5101
fx:604.909.5125

www.VRCanada.ca
360° Immersive Imaging
Skype: VRdundee

[Robert Harshman]

--- In PanoToolsNG@..., "Milko K. Amorth" <panotools@...>
wrote:
> Its always been 115° (52.5 above and 62.5 below horizon)

Seems like they use to state a bit more, but only for a very short
time when they first started.

 Your focus theory discussion baffles me a  bit though.

Not a theory, just trial and error testing to find the best settings
for a mirror/camera combination. the sharpest mirror system  that I
found was the old remote reality system, tack sharp (from a mirror
system standpoint) edge to edge, but only 90 degrees vertical and
split 75/15 down/up. A "downward" looking system. the best focus point
for this was about 8 meters out if I remember correctly - it's been
quite a few years since I used any mirror system though.

and yes, there are a few systems out there and new one still come out
from time to time, but I don't really follow them anymore as I'm not
shooting 360 video, and the market I shoot for now is way too high end
to even consider any mirror system.

Mirror systems can be quite useful if you have a market need for them,
but they will never come close to what you can do with quality glass
one a SLR or MF system.

Regards,

Robert

[Milko K. Amorth]

Hi Robert,
>  looking system. the best focus point
> for this was about 8 meters out if I remember correctly -
This where I must be standing on my thinking hose. What do you mean by 8
meters out?

A mirror reflecting 75 down and 15 up is very shallow cone or a concave
system. It's still is an object you have to focus for.
I have shot pin balls, ball bearings, glas marbles, soup latels or even
towell hangers with hemi sphere mirroring , but the same principal applies.
Focus for the horizon in the mirror image to get maximum dof for your
aperture buck. That is if you want to pan it.

Shed some enlightenment to me, I am curious.

Cheers, Milko





--
Milko K.Amorth
ph:604.561.5101
fx:604.909.5125

www.VRCanada.ca
360° Immersive Imaging
Skype: VRdundee

[Robert Harshman]

 
> Shed some enlightenment to me, I am curious.
>
> Cheers, Milko

I think your basis for focusing is correct for those odd items and
should serve as the basis for testing a new mirror system or kitchen
implement :)

The remote reality system, and some of the other mirror system, are
not just a mirror on a stick, but a system. They also have a lens
element between the mirror and the real lens/camera your attaching it
to. I would have to guess that this would allow for the difference in
your experience and what I saw in focus point.

And by 8 meters, I meant just that, the best focus point was about 8
meters.

Regards,

Robert  

[panovrx]

I have the 0-360 and with that you definitely do have to focus on the
mirror.

Generally ... the only particular gripe I have with the 0-360 really
is that the one I have at least is not perfectly smooth ie. there is
a little dimple in the glass which causes visible distortion in the
panorama sometimes

Fun movies btw can be made with a mirror lens with it horizontal in
front of you and walking backwards in a crowd ...

Peter Murphy

--- In PanoToolsNG@..., "robert_harshman" <image360@...>
wrote:

>
>  
> > Shed some enlightenment to me, I am curious.
> >
> > Cheers, Milko
>
> I think your basis for focusing is correct for those odd items and
> should serve as the basis for testing a new mirror system or kitchen
> implement :)
>
> The remote reality system, and some of the other mirror system, are
> not just a mirror on a stick, but a system. They also have a lens
> element between the mirror and the real lens/camera your attaching

it
> to. I would have to guess that this would allow for the difference
in
> your experience and what I saw in focus point.
>
> And by 8 meters, I meant just that, the best focus point was about 8
> meters.
>
> Regards,
>
> Robert
>