[squeak-dev] 3.10 image

[Sophie2]

I the damien-3.10-web image size is quite large (129M) compared to a
comparably (not identical) loaded 3.9 Ramon's image (42M). Is that expected,
or is it because as a beta it has not been trimmed etc.?

Thanks - Sophie

[Miguel Enrique Cobá Martínez]

itsme213 wrote:

> I the damien-3.10-web image size is quite large (129M) compared to a
> comparably (not identical) loaded 3.9 Ramon's image (42M). Is that expected,
> or is it because as a beta it has not been trimmed etc.?
>
> Thanks - Sophie
>
>
>
>
>

I noted this too. But if you save the original image from Damien to a
new image (for your everyday work, so you have the original image
intact) the new saved image is trimmed to about 34MB.

Cheers

[Damien Cassou-3]

On Mon, Feb 25, 2008 at 7:02 AM, Miguel Enrique Cobá Martínez
<m.coba.m@...> wrote:

>
> itsme213 wrote:
>  > I the damien-3.10-web image size is quite large (129M) compared to a
>  > comparably (not identical) loaded 3.9 Ramon's image (42M). Is that expected,
>  > or is it because as a beta it has not been trimmed etc.?
>  >
>  >
>  I noted this too. But if you save the original image from Damien to a
>  new image (for your everyday work, so you have the original image
>  intact) the new saved image is trimmed to about 34MB.

I can't trimmed my image with this method... Don't know what happens.

Can somebody help me?


--
Damien Cassou

[Bert Freudenberg]

On Feb 25, 2008, at 9:23 , Damien Cassou wrote:

> On Mon, Feb 25, 2008 at 7:02 AM, Miguel Enrique Cobá Martínez
> <m.coba.m@...> wrote:
>>
>> itsme213 wrote:
>>> I the damien-3.10-web image size is quite large (129M) compared to a
>>> comparably (not identical) loaded 3.9 Ramon's image (42M). Is  
>>> that expected,
>>> or is it because as a beta it has not been trimmed etc.?
>>>
>>>
>>  I noted this too. But if you save the original image from Damien  
>> to a
>>  new image (for your everyday work, so you have the original image
>>  intact) the new saved image is trimmed to about 34MB.
>
> I can't trimmed my image with this method... Don't know what happens.

Try a different VM?

- Bert -

[Damien Cassou-3]

On Mon, Feb 25, 2008 at 10:37 AM, Bert Freudenberg <bert@...> wrote:

>
>
>  On Feb 25, 2008, at 9:23 , Damien Cassou wrote:
>
>  > On Mon, Feb 25, 2008 at 7:02 AM, Miguel Enrique Cobá Martínez
>  > <m.coba.m@...> wrote:
>  >>
>  >> itsme213 wrote:
>  >>> I the damien-3.10-web image size is quite large (129M) compared to a
>  >>> comparably (not identical) loaded 3.9 Ramon's image (42M). Is
>  >>> that expected,
>  >>> or is it because as a beta it has not been trimmed etc.?
>  >>>
>  >>>
>  >>  I noted this too. But if you save the original image from Damien
>  >> to a
>  >>  new image (for your everyday work, so you have the original image
>  >>  intact) the new saved image is trimmed to about 34MB.
>  >
>  > I can't trimmed my image with this method... Don't know what happens.
>
>  Try a different VM?

Mine is pretty recent and I think I compiled it myself through subversion:

$ squeak -version
3.9-12 #2 mercredi 10 octobre 2007, 18:07:20 (UTC+0200) version 4.1.3
Squeak3.9alpha of 4 July 2005 [latest update: #7021]
Linux bedous 2.6.22-14-generic #1 SMP Tue Oct 9 09:51:52 GMT 2007 i686 GNU/Linux
default plugin location: /usr/local/lib/squeak/3.9-12/*.so

Do you think I need to try another version?


--
Damien Cassou

[Gary Chambers-4]

Try "MCFileBasedRepository flushAllCaches" before saving 129MB -> 28.5MB !

> -----Original Message-----
> From: squeak-dev-bounces@...
> [mailto:squeak-dev-bounces@...]On Behalf Of
> Damien Cassou
> Sent: 25 February 2008 9:43 AM
> To: The general-purpose Squeak developers list
> Subject: Re: [squeak-dev] 3.10 image
>
>
> On Mon, Feb 25, 2008 at 10:37 AM, Bert Freudenberg
> <bert@...> wrote:
> >
> >
> >  On Feb 25, 2008, at 9:23 , Damien Cassou wrote:
> >
> >  > On Mon, Feb 25, 2008 at 7:02 AM, Miguel Enrique Cobá Martínez
> >  > <m.coba.m@...> wrote:
> >  >>
> >  >> itsme213 wrote:
> >  >>> I the damien-3.10-web image size is quite large (129M)
> compared to a
> >  >>> comparably (not identical) loaded 3.9 Ramon's image (42M). Is
> >  >>> that expected,
> >  >>> or is it because as a beta it has not been trimmed etc.?
> >  >>>
> >  >>>
> >  >>  I noted this too. But if you save the original image from Damien
> >  >> to a
> >  >>  new image (for your everyday work, so you have the original image
> >  >>  intact) the new saved image is trimmed to about 34MB.
> >  >
> >  > I can't trimmed my image with this method... Don't know what happens.
> >
> >  Try a different VM?
>
> Mine is pretty recent and I think I compiled it myself through subversion:
>
> $ squeak -version
> 3.9-12 #2 mercredi 10 octobre 2007, 18:07:20 (UTC+0200) version 4.1.3
> Squeak3.9alpha of 4 July 2005 [latest update: #7021]
> Linux bedous 2.6.22-14-generic #1 SMP Tue Oct 9 09:51:52 GMT 2007
> i686 GNU/Linux
> default plugin location: /usr/local/lib/squeak/3.9-12/*.so
>
> Do you think I need to try another version?
>
>
> --
> Damien Cassou
>

[Bert Freudenberg]

On Feb 25, 2008, at 10:42 , Damien Cassou wrote:

> On Mon, Feb 25, 2008 at 10:37 AM, Bert Freudenberg  
> <bert@...> wrote:
>>
>>
>>  On Feb 25, 2008, at 9:23 , Damien Cassou wrote:
>>
>>> On Mon, Feb 25, 2008 at 7:02 AM, Miguel Enrique Cobá Martínez
>>> <m.coba.m@...> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> itsme213 wrote:
>>>>> I the damien-3.10-web image size is quite large (129M) compared  
>>>>> to a
>>>>> comparably (not identical) loaded 3.9 Ramon's image (42M). Is
>>>>> that expected,
>>>>> or is it because as a beta it has not been trimmed etc.?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>  I noted this too. But if you save the original image from Damien
>>>> to a
>>>>  new image (for your everyday work, so you have the original image
>>>>  intact) the new saved image is trimmed to about 34MB.
>>>
>>> I can't trimmed my image with this method... Don't know what  
>>> happens.
>>
>>  Try a different VM?
>
> Mine is pretty recent and I think I compiled it myself through  
> subversion:
>
> $ squeak -version
> 3.9-12 #2 mercredi 10 octobre 2007, 18:07:20 (UTC+0200) version 4.1.3
> Squeak3.9alpha of 4 July 2005 [latest update: #7021]
> Linux bedous 2.6.22-14-generic #1 SMP Tue Oct 9 09:51:52 GMT 2007  
> i686 GNU/Linux
> default plugin location: /usr/local/lib/squeak/3.9-12/*.so
>
> Do you think I need to try another version?

Only if your VM is somehow special and does not collect garbage when  
saving. If the report above by Miguel is correct (that he simply  
loaded and saved the image) and the same does not work for you then  
it certainly must be the VM. Although I think this is rather  
unlikely. Try emptying the MC caches and saving.

- Bert -

[Damien Cassou-3]

Ok, future versions will be much smaller. Thanks.

On Mon, Feb 25, 2008 at 12:01 PM, Bert Freudenberg <bert@...> wrote:

>
>
>  On Feb 25, 2008, at 10:42 , Damien Cassou wrote:
>
>  > On Mon, Feb 25, 2008 at 10:37 AM, Bert Freudenberg
>  > <bert@...> wrote:
>  >>
>  >>
>  >>  On Feb 25, 2008, at 9:23 , Damien Cassou wrote:
>  >>
>  >>> On Mon, Feb 25, 2008 at 7:02 AM, Miguel Enrique Cobá Martínez
>  >>> <m.coba.m@...> wrote:
>  >>>>
>  >>>> itsme213 wrote:
>  >>>>> I the damien-3.10-web image size is quite large (129M) compared
>  >>>>> to a
>  >>>>> comparably (not identical) loaded 3.9 Ramon's image (42M). Is
>  >>>>> that expected,
>  >>>>> or is it because as a beta it has not been trimmed etc.?
>  >>>>>
>  >>>>>
>  >>>>  I noted this too. But if you save the original image from Damien
>  >>>> to a
>  >>>>  new image (for your everyday work, so you have the original image
>  >>>>  intact) the new saved image is trimmed to about 34MB.
>  >>>
>  >>> I can't trimmed my image with this method... Don't know what
>  >>> happens.
>  >>
>  >>  Try a different VM?
>  >
>  > Mine is pretty recent and I think I compiled it myself through
>  > subversion:
>  >
>  > $ squeak -version
>  > 3.9-12 #2 mercredi 10 octobre 2007, 18:07:20 (UTC+0200) version 4.1.3
>  > Squeak3.9alpha of 4 July 2005 [latest update: #7021]
>  > Linux bedous 2.6.22-14-generic #1 SMP Tue Oct 9 09:51:52 GMT 2007
>  > i686 GNU/Linux
>  > default plugin location: /usr/local/lib/squeak/3.9-12/*.so
>  >
>  > Do you think I need to try another version?
>
>  Only if your VM is somehow special and does not collect garbage when
>  saving. If the report above by Miguel is correct (that he simply
>  loaded and saved the image) and the same does not work for you then
>  it certainly must be the VM. Although I think this is rather
>  unlikely. Try emptying the MC caches and saving.
>
>  - Bert -
>
>
>
>

--
Damien Cassou

[Ramon Leon-5]

> Behalf Of Damien Cassou
> Sent: Monday, February 25, 2008 8:07 AM
> To: The general-purpose Squeak developers list
> Subject: Re: [squeak-dev] 3.10 image
>
> Ok, future versions will be much smaller. Thanks.

Here's what I run when saving a clean image, usually gets me to around 30meg
with all the dev tools loaded.

customGarbageCollect
        | tasks |
        tasks := OrderedCollection new
                add: [ EventManager cleanUp ] ;
                add: [ SmalltalkImage cleanUp ] ;
                add: [ MCMethodDefinition cleanUp ] ;
                add: [ MCFileBasedRepository flushAllCaches ] ;
                add: [ WARegistry clearAllHandlers ] ;
                add: [ SMSqueakMap default clearCaches ] ;
                add: [ Smalltalk removeEmptyMessageCategories ] ;
                add: [ Utilities cleanseOtherworldlySteppers ] ;
                add: [ Workspace allSubInstancesDo: [ : each | each
setBindings: Dictionary new ] ] ;
                add: [ Undeclared removeUnreferencedKeys ] ;
                add: [ Categorizer sortAllCategories ] ;
                add: [ Symbol compactSymbolTable ] ;
                add: [ ReleaseBuilderDeveloper new fixObsoleteReferences ] ;
                add: [ Smalltalk garbageCollectMost ] ;
                yourself.
        Utilities informUserDuring:
                [ : bar |
                tasks do:
                        [ : block |
                        bar value: block printString.
                        [ block value ]
                                on: Error
                                do:
                                        [ : error |
                                        Transcript
                                                show: error ;
                                                cr ] ] ].
        SystemNavigation default obsoleteClasses isEmpty
                ifTrue: [ SmalltalkImage current saveSession ]
                ifFalse:
                        [ (self confirm: 'PointerFinder on obsolete
classes') ifFalse: [ ^ self ].
                        SystemNavigation default obsoleteClasses do:
                                [ : each |
                                [ PointerFinder on: each ]
                                        on: Error
                                        do:
                                                [ : error |
                                                Transcript
                                                        show: error ;
                                                        cr ] ] ]

Ramon Leon
http://onsmalltalk.com

[Gary Chambers-4]

Guess we all have our own cleanup scripts ;-)

> -----Original Message-----
> From: squeak-dev-bounces@...
> [mailto:squeak-dev-bounces@...]On Behalf Of Ramon
> Leon
> Sent: 25 February 2008 4:13 PM
> To: 'The general-purpose Squeak developers list'
> Subject: RE: [squeak-dev] 3.10 image
>
>
> > Behalf Of Damien Cassou
> > Sent: Monday, February 25, 2008 8:07 AM
> > To: The general-purpose Squeak developers list
> > Subject: Re: [squeak-dev] 3.10 image
> >
> > Ok, future versions will be much smaller. Thanks.
>
> Here's what I run when saving a clean image, usually gets me to
> around 30meg
> with all the dev tools loaded.
>
> customGarbageCollect
> | tasks |
> tasks := OrderedCollection new
> add: [ EventManager cleanUp ] ;
> add: [ SmalltalkImage cleanUp ] ;
> add: [ MCMethodDefinition cleanUp ] ;
> add: [ MCFileBasedRepository flushAllCaches ] ;
> add: [ WARegistry clearAllHandlers ] ;
> add: [ SMSqueakMap default clearCaches ] ;
> add: [ Smalltalk removeEmptyMessageCategories ] ;
> add: [ Utilities cleanseOtherworldlySteppers ] ;
> add: [ Workspace allSubInstancesDo: [ : each | each
> setBindings: Dictionary new ] ] ;
> add: [ Undeclared removeUnreferencedKeys ] ;
> add: [ Categorizer sortAllCategories ] ;
> add: [ Symbol compactSymbolTable ] ;
> add: [ ReleaseBuilderDeveloper new fixObsoleteReferences ] ;
> add: [ Smalltalk garbageCollectMost ] ;
> yourself.
> Utilities informUserDuring:
> [ : bar |
> tasks do:
> [ : block |
> bar value: block printString.
> [ block value ]
> on: Error
> do:
> [ : error |
> Transcript
> show: error ;
> cr ] ] ].
> SystemNavigation default obsoleteClasses isEmpty
> ifTrue: [ SmalltalkImage current saveSession ]
> ifFalse:
> [ (self confirm: 'PointerFinder on obsolete
> classes') ifFalse: [ ^ self ].
> SystemNavigation default obsoleteClasses do:
> [ : each |
> [ PointerFinder on: each ]
> on: Error
> do:
> [ : error |
> Transcript
> show: error ;
> cr ] ] ]
>
> Ramon Leon
> http://onsmalltalk.com
>
>

[Damien Cassou-3]

Thank you.

On Mon, Feb 25, 2008 at 5:26 PM, Gary Chambers <gazzaguru2@...> wrote:

Guess we all have our own cleanup scripts ;-)

> -----Original Message-----
> From: squeak-dev-bounces@...

> [mailto:squeak-dev-bounces@...]On Behalf Of Ramon
> Leon
> Sent: 25 February 2008 4:13 PM
> To: 'The general-purpose Squeak developers list'

> Subject: RE: [squeak-dev] 3.10 image
>
>
> > Behalf Of Damien Cassou
> > Sent: Monday, February 25, 2008 8:07 AM
> > To: The general-purpose Squeak developers list
> > Subject: Re: [squeak-dev] 3.10 image
> >
> > Ok, future versions will be much smaller. Thanks.
>
> Here's what I run when saving a clean image, usually gets me to
> around 30meg
> with all the dev tools loaded.
>
> customGarbageCollect
>       | tasks |
>       tasks := OrderedCollection new
>               add: [ EventManager cleanUp ] ;
>               add: [ SmalltalkImage cleanUp ] ;
>               add: [ MCMethodDefinition cleanUp ] ;
>               add: [ MCFileBasedRepository flushAllCaches ] ;
>               add: [ WARegistry clearAllHandlers ] ;
>               add: [ SMSqueakMap default clearCaches ] ;
>               add: [ Smalltalk removeEmptyMessageCategories ] ;
>               add: [ Utilities cleanseOtherworldlySteppers ] ;
>               add: [ Workspace allSubInstancesDo: [ : each | each
> setBindings: Dictionary new ] ] ;
>               add: [ Undeclared removeUnreferencedKeys ] ;
>               add: [ Categorizer sortAllCategories ] ;
>               add: [ Symbol compactSymbolTable ] ;
>               add: [ ReleaseBuilderDeveloper new fixObsoleteReferences ] ;
>               add: [ Smalltalk garbageCollectMost ] ;
>               yourself.
>       Utilities informUserDuring:
>               [ : bar |
>               tasks do:
>                       [ : block |
>                       bar value: block printString.
>                       [ block value ]
>                               on: Error
>                               do:
>                                       [ : error |
>                                       Transcript
>                                               show: error ;
>                                               cr ] ] ].
>       SystemNavigation default obsoleteClasses isEmpty
>               ifTrue: [ SmalltalkImage current saveSession ]
>               ifFalse:
>                       [ (self confirm: 'PointerFinder on obsolete
> classes') ifFalse: [ ^ self ].
>                       SystemNavigation default obsoleteClasses do:
>                               [ : each |
>                               [ PointerFinder on: each ]
>                                       on: Error
>                                       do:
>                                               [ : error |
>                                               Transcript
>                                                       show: error ;
>                                                       cr ] ] ]
>
> Ramon Leon
> http://onsmalltalk.com
>
>

--
Damien Cassou

[Ken G. Brown]

I've noticed that sq3.10-7159dev08.02.1 right out of the zip is 65.2 MB but after executing Keith's level playing field script and a few other things, then doing
as Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm@...> did in his sample script recently posted here on Mon, 11 Feb 2008.

"******************************"
"Cleanups"
"******************************"
MCFileBasedRepository flushAllCaches.
Smalltalk garbageCollect.

then:

"*** Save as a new version ***************************"
SmalltalkImage current saveAsNewVersion.

the image is then only 20.2 MB.

By the way, I'm finding that Keith's Installer <http://installer.pbwiki.com/Installer> is great!

Ken G. Brown


At 2:23 AM -0800 2/25/08, squeak-dev-request@... apparently wrote:

>Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2008 00:02:10 -0600
>From: Miguel Enrique Cob? Mart?nez  <m.coba.m@...>
>Subject: Re: [squeak-dev] 3.10 image
>To: The general-purpose Squeak developers list
> <squeak-dev@...>
>Message-ID: <47C259E2.4040906@...>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
>itsme213 wrote:
>> I the damien-3.10-web image size is quite large (129M) compared to a
>> comparably (not identical) loaded 3.9 Ramon's image (42M). Is that expected,
>> or is it because as a beta it has not been trimmed etc.?
>>
>> Thanks - Sophie
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>I noted this too. But if you save the original image from Damien to a
>new image (for your everyday work, so you have the original image
>intact) the new saved image is trimmed to about 34MB.
>
>Cheers

[Igor Stasenko]

It's really time to think about what Keith proposed a while ago:

I am all for it, to include #cleanUp message to standard Behavior
protocol. So people shouldn't write own sophisticated cleanUp scripts,
and do just:

Smalltalk cleanUp.

And package authors implement own #cleanUp in classes, where they
think it needs to.

(Sorry i can't find this mail in archives, so i putting it as text here)
-------------------
Dear All,

If possible I would like to encourage package developers to support two
conventions for cleaning up images

Firstly to remember to adopt the memory hogs convention (which is rarely
used) of implementing #freeSomeSpace.

Although the lowspace watcher currently requires potential memory hogs
to register themselves, I propose implementing the methods anyway, with
a utility method available via 'SmalltalkImage current freeSpace' to
invoke an image wide belt tightening.

#freeSomeSpace would be for cleaning out caches and so forth that would
not imped normal functioning.

examples:

Utilities-class-#freeSomeSpace
       self cleanseOtherworldlySteppers

Secondly to formalize #cleanUp as a message that users will send in
order to try and tidy up an image as much as possible before saving or
deploying.

examples:

In Seaside this would require:

WACachedDocument class-#cleanUp
   self clearCache
WAHalo-class-#cleanUp
   self initialize
WAKom-class-#cleanUp
   self stop
WARegistry class-#cleanUp
   self clearAllHandlers

In DynamicProtocols this would require
DynamicProtocols-#cleanUp
   self invalidateCache

I am sure there are many other instances where this would be useful.

how about it?

Keith
-------------------

--
Best regards,
Igor Stasenko AKA sig.

[Gary Chambers-4]

+1 from me

----- Original message -----
From: Igor Stasenko  <siguctua@...>
To: The general-purpose Squeak developers list  <squeak-dev@...>
Sent: Mon, 25 Feb 2008, 19:57:14 GMT
Subject: Re: [squeak-dev] 3.10 image
It's really time to think about what Keith proposed a while ago:

I am all for it, to include #cleanUp message to standard Behavior
protocol. So people shouldn't write own sophisticated cleanUp scripts,
and do just:

Smalltalk cleanUp.

And package authors implement own #cleanUp in classes, where they
think it needs to.

(Sorry i can't find this mail in archives, so i putting it as text here)
-------------------
Dear All,

If possible I would like to encourage package developers to support two
conventions for cleaning up images

Firstly to remember to adopt the memory hogs convention (which is rarely
used) of implementing #freeSomeSpace.

Although the lowspace watcher currently requires potential memory hogs
to register themselves, I propose implementing the methods anyway, with
a utility method available via 'SmalltalkImage current freeSpace' to
invoke an image wide belt tightening.

#freeSomeSpace would be for cleaning out caches and so forth that would
not imped normal functioning.

examples:

Utilities-class-#freeSomeSpace
       self cleanseOtherworldlySteppers

Secondly to formalize #cleanUp as a message that users will send in
order to try and tidy up an image as much as possible before saving or
deploying.

examples:

In Seaside this would require:

WACachedDocument class-#cleanUp
   self clearCache
WAHalo-class-#cleanUp
   self initialize
WAKom-class-#cleanUp
   self stop
WARegistry class-#cleanUp
   self clearAllHandlers

In DynamicProtocols this would require
DynamicProtocols-#cleanUp
   self invalidateCache

I am sure there are many other instances where this would be useful.

how about it?

Keith
-------------------

--
Best regards,
Igor Stasenko AKA sig.

[Keithy]

Dear All,

I have added some of these #cleanUp methods and

SmalltalkImage current cleanUpAll.

to KernelExt package in squeaksource.com/311 in the hope that they might
become adopted in future images.

best regards

Keith

[Sophie2]

"Ken G. Brown" <kbrown@...> wrote in message

> By the way, I'm finding that Keith's Installer
> <http://installer.pbwiki.com/Installer> is great!

+1  !!

[stan shepherd]

Ramon Leon-5 wrote:

Here's what I run when saving a clean image, usually gets me to around 30meg
with all the dev tools loaded.

customGarbageCollect
        | tasks |
        tasks := OrderedCollection new
                add: [ EventManager cleanUp ] ;
                add: [ SmalltalkImage cleanUp ] ;
        ...
                add: [ ReleaseBuilderDeveloper new fixObsoleteReferences ] ;
                add: [ Smalltalk garbageCollectMost ] ;
                yourself.
        Utilities informUserDuring:
        ...

Ramon Leon

Hi, could someone point me to where to find ReleaseBuilderDeveloper please?

Thanks,    ...Stan