[petals] bootstrap process info

[Darko Androsevic]

Hi all,

I would appreciate if you could shed some light on petals components and
service units bootstrap...

- Does petals on reboot starts all components first and then all service
units or you start a component and then its service units?
- Can one component bootstrap depend on other components?
- Can some service unit startup depend on other service unit? In
particular, can one send message from one SU to other SU during petals
startup?
- Is there anything different in the distributed ESB case?

Thanks,
Darko

Be there when GIS and the Web unite!  Join us for an exciting GeoWeb
2008 Conference!  For more details, please visit
www.geowebconference.org.


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[Roland Naudin - EBM WebSourcing]

hi Darko,

> Hi all,
>
> I would appreciate if you could shed some light on petals components and
> service units bootstrap...
>
> - Does petals on reboot starts all components first and then all service
> units or you start a component and then its service units?
At restart, the recovery service restores the life-cycle state in the
given order; component, SAs, SUs.

Since the 2.1 release, the message traffic is hold until the SUs
life-cycle are entirely recovered, to avoid reception of messages in
components without having the bound SU recovered

> - Can one component bootstrap depend on other components?

JBI proposes to build a loose coupling application based on services. A
component interacts with the others by seeking endpoints on the bus.
The only common actions between components possible is by using the SA
life-cycle.

> - Can some service unit startup depend on other service unit? In
> particular, can one send message from one SU to other SU during petals
> startup?

The same that previous.
Maybe if you explain your dependence issue, others solution are possible

> - Is there anything different in the distributed ESB case?
You mean the platform distribution? No difference in a distributed
environment, except that if a node crash or stop, its exposed endpoints
are still available for the others node but not reachable until it
restart. You can custom the routing strategy by weigthing low the
endpoints that are not reachable to avoid to use them.

>
> Thanks,
> Darko
>
> Be there when GIS and the Web unite!  Join us for an exciting GeoWeb
> 2008 Conference!  For more details, please visit
> www.geowebconference.org.
> pièce jointe document plein texte (message-footer.txt)
> --
> You receive this message as a subscriber of the petals-users@... mailing list.
> To unsubscribe: mailto:petals-users-unsubscribe@...
> For general help: mailto:sympa@...?subject=help
> OW2 mailing lists service home page: http://www.ow2.org/wws

--

Roland NAUDIN
PEtALS Team

EBM Websourcing
05 34 32 03 13

Try PEtALS at
http://petals.objectweb.org




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[Darko Androsevic]

Hi Roland,

Thanks for your reply.

> - Can some service unit startup depend on other service unit? In
> particular, can one send message from one SU to other SU during petals
> startup?
Roland wrote:
The same that previous.
Maybe if you explain your dependence issue, others solution are possible


One could have a service unit(s) that might be responsible for certain things like licensing, certain persistent configurations, security check (e.g. might even ping dongle), recoverable (sub)states...
So this service should be contacted during startup time by all other services. If the message bus ensure that all message routed on startup to that service from other services will wait and be delivered upon it starts then we may explore that option. If I understand your answer correctly it confirms that this is the case.

Thanks,
Darko

-----Original Message-----
From: Roland Naudin - EBM WebSourcing [mailto:roland.naudin@...]
Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2008 12:50 AM
To: petals-users@...
Subject: [petals-users] Re: [petals] bootstrap process info

hi Darko,

> Hi all,
>
> I would appreciate if you could shed some light on petals components
> and service units bootstrap...
>
> - Does petals on reboot starts all components first and then all
> service units or you start a component and then its service units?
At restart, the recovery service restores the life-cycle state in the given order; component, SAs, SUs.

Since the 2.1 release, the message traffic is hold until the SUs life-cycle are entirely recovered, to avoid reception of messages in components without having the bound SU recovered

> - Can one component bootstrap depend on other components?

JBI proposes to build a loose coupling application based on services. A component interacts with the others by seeking endpoints on the bus.
The only common actions between components possible is by using the SA life-cycle.

> - Can some service unit startup depend on other service unit? In
> particular, can one send message from one SU to other SU during petals
> startup?

The same that previous.
Maybe if you explain your dependence issue, others solution are possible

> - Is there anything different in the distributed ESB case?
You mean the platform distribution? No difference in a distributed environment, except that if a node crash or stop, its exposed endpoints are still available for the others node but not reachable until it restart. You can custom the routing strategy by weigthing low the endpoints that are not reachable to avoid to use them.

>
> Thanks,
> Darko
>
> Be there when GIS and the Web unite!  Join us for an exciting GeoWeb
> 2008 Conference!  For more details, please visit
> www.geowebconference.org.
> pièce jointe document plein texte (message-footer.txt)
> --
> You receive this message as a subscriber of the petals-users@... mailing list.
> To unsubscribe: mailto:petals-users-unsubscribe@...
> For general help: mailto:sympa@...?subject=help
> OW2 mailing lists service home page: http://www.ow2.org/wws

--

Roland NAUDIN
PEtALS Team

EBM Websourcing
05 34 32 03 13

Try PEtALS at
http://petals.objectweb.org




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[Christophe Hamerling]

This kind of feature may be useful. I think it can be easy to add some king of startup priority.
This point can be discussed with the petals architects and voted on the developers mailing list.

Christophe

On Thu, Jun 26, 2008 at 6:25 PM, Darko Androsevic <dandrosevic@...> wrote:

Hi Roland,

Thanks for your reply.

> - Can some service unit startup depend on other service unit? In
> particular, can one send message from one SU to other SU during petals
> startup?

Roland wrote:
The same that previous.
Maybe if you explain your dependence issue, others solution are possible

One could have a service unit(s) that might be responsible for certain things like licensing, certain persistent configurations, security check (e.g. might even ping dongle), recoverable (sub)states...
So this service should be contacted during startup time by all other services. If the message bus ensure that all message routed on startup to that service from other services will wait and be delivered upon it starts then we may explore that option. If I understand your answer correctly it confirms that this is the case.

Thanks,
Darko

-----Original Message-----
From: Roland Naudin - EBM WebSourcing [mailto:roland.naudin@...]
Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2008 12:50 AM
To: petals-users@...
Subject: [petals-users] Re: [petals] bootstrap process info

hi Darko,

> Hi all,
>
> I would appreciate if you could shed some light on petals components
> and service units bootstrap...
>
> - Does petals on reboot starts all components first and then all
> service units or you start a component and then its service units?
At restart, the recovery service restores the life-cycle state in the given order; component, SAs, SUs.

Since the 2.1 release, the message traffic is hold until the SUs life-cycle are entirely recovered, to avoid reception of messages in components without having the bound SU recovered

> - Can one component bootstrap depend on other components?

JBI proposes to build a loose coupling application based on services. A component interacts with the others by seeking endpoints on the bus.
The only common actions between components possible is by using the SA life-cycle.

> - Can some service unit startup depend on other service unit? In
> particular, can one send message from one SU to other SU during petals
> startup?

The same that previous.
Maybe if you explain your dependence issue, others solution are possible

> - Is there anything different in the distributed ESB case?
You mean the platform distribution? No difference in a distributed environment, except that if a node crash or stop, its exposed endpoints are still available for the others node but not reachable until it restart. You can custom the routing strategy by weigthing low the endpoints that are not reachable to avoid to use them.

>
> Thanks,
> Darko
>
> Be there when GIS and the Web unite!  Join us for an exciting GeoWeb
> 2008 Conference!  For more details, please visit
> www.geowebconference.org.
> pièce jointe document plein texte (message-footer.txt)
> --
> You receive this message as a subscriber of the petals-users@... mailing list.
> To unsubscribe: mailto:petals-users-unsubscribe@...
> For general help: mailto:sympa@...?subject=help
> OW2 mailing lists service home page: http://www.ow2.org/wws
--
Roland NAUDIN
PEtALS Team

EBM Websourcing
05 34 32 03 13

Try PEtALS at
http://petals.objectweb.org

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--
Christophe Hamerling
PEtALS ESB Research Engineer / Product Manager @ eBM WebSourcing
http://petals.ow2.org
http://petals.ebmwebsourcing.com
Phone : [phone]
Skype : christophe.hamerling

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[Adrien LOUIS - EBM WebSourcing]

Some parts of this message have been removed. Learn more about Nabble's security policy.

I’m not sure that the use case described by darko has to be implemented in this way.

It is a very not “services” approach.

If you want to configure your component at startup (do you mean installation, or intialisation phase? ), you can’t and don’t have to call services. The configuration of the infrastructure (licencing, security…) can be coded in your components. Jbi components are not black boxes and you can add infrastructure functionalities in them.

If you want to “configure” services (before your services are available, the component that hosts them has to call your licencing service), I think it is not an SOA approach as your services becomes dependant. I suggest you to think about orchestration.

 

Hope this helps you

 

Adrien LOUIS

Phone: [phone]

Cell   : [phone]

 

---

De : chamerling.ebmws@... [mailto:chamerling.ebmws@...] De la part de Christophe Hamerling - eBM WebSourcing
Envoyé : vendredi 27 juin 2008 10:01
À : petals-users@...
Objet : [petals-users] Re: RE: Re: [petals] bootstrap process info

 

This kind of feature may be useful. I think it can be easy to add some king of startup priority.
This point can be discussed with the petals architects and voted on the developers mailing list.

Christophe

On Thu, Jun 26, 2008 at 6:25 PM, Darko Androsevic <dandrosevic@...> wrote:

Hi Roland,

Thanks for your reply.

> - Can some service unit startup depend on other service unit? In
> particular, can one send message from one SU to other SU during petals
> startup?

Roland wrote:
The same that previous.
Maybe if you explain your dependence issue, others solution are possible

One could have a service unit(s) that might be responsible for certain things like licensing, certain persistent configurations, security check (e.g. might even ping dongle), recoverable (sub)states...
So this service should be contacted during startup time by all other services. If the message bus ensure that all message routed on startup to that service from other services will wait and be delivered upon it starts then we may explore that option. If I understand your answer correctly it confirms that this is the case.

Thanks,
Darko

-----Original Message-----
From: Roland Naudin - EBM WebSourcing [mailto:roland.naudin@...]
Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2008 12:50 AM
To: petals-users@...
Subject: [petals-users] Re: [petals] bootstrap process info

hi Darko,

> Hi all,
>
> I would appreciate if you could shed some light on petals components
> and service units bootstrap...
>
> - Does petals on reboot starts all components first and then all
> service units or you start a component and then its service units?
At restart, the recovery service restores the life-cycle state in the given order; component, SAs, SUs.

Since the 2.1 release, the message traffic is hold until the SUs life-cycle are entirely recovered, to avoid reception of messages in components without having the bound SU recovered

> - Can one component bootstrap depend on other components?

JBI proposes to build a loose coupling application based on services. A component interacts with the others by seeking endpoints on the bus.
The only common actions between components possible is by using the SA life-cycle.

> - Can some service unit startup depend on other service unit? In
> particular, can one send message from one SU to other SU during petals
> startup?

The same that previous.
Maybe if you explain your dependence issue, others solution are possible

> - Is there anything different in the distributed ESB case?
You mean the platform distribution? No difference in a distributed environment, except that if a node crash or stop, its exposed endpoints are still available for the others node but not reachable until it restart. You can custom the routing strategy by weigthing low the endpoints that are not reachable to avoid to use them.

>
> Thanks,
> Darko
>
> Be there when GIS and the Web unite!  Join us for an exciting GeoWeb
> 2008 Conference!  For more details, please visit
> www.geowebconference.org.
> pièce jointe document plein texte (message-footer.txt)
> --
> You receive this message as a subscriber of the petals-users@... mailing list.
> To unsubscribe: mailto:petals-users-unsubscribe@...
> For general help: mailto:sympa@...?subject=help
> OW2 mailing lists service home page: http://www.ow2.org/wws
--
Roland NAUDIN
PEtALS Team

EBM Websourcing
05 34 32 03 13

Try PEtALS at
http://petals.objectweb.org

--
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--
Christophe Hamerling
PEtALS ESB Research Engineer / Product Manager @ eBM WebSourcing
http://petals.ow2.org
http://petals.ebmwebsourcing.com
Phone : [phone]
Skype : christophe.hamerling

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[Roland Naudin - EBM WebSourcing]

yep, this is the case.

Le jeudi 26 juin 2008 à 09:25 -0700, Darko Androsevic a écrit :

> Hi Roland,
>
> Thanks for your reply.
>
> > - Can some service unit startup depend on other service unit? In
> > particular, can one send message from one SU to other SU during petals
> > startup?
> Roland wrote:
> The same that previous.
> Maybe if you explain your dependence issue, others solution are possible
>
>
> One could have a service unit(s) that might be responsible for certain things like licensing, certain persistent configurations, security check (e.g. might even ping dongle), recoverable (sub)states...
> So this service should be contacted during startup time by all other services. If the message bus ensure that all message routed on startup to that service from other services will wait and be delivered upon it starts then we may explore that option. If I understand your answer correctly it confirms that this is the case.
>
> Thanks,
> Darko
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Roland Naudin - EBM WebSourcing [mailto:roland.naudin@...]
> Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2008 12:50 AM
> To: petals-users@...
> Subject: [petals-users] Re: [petals] bootstrap process info
>
> hi Darko,
>
> > Hi all,
> >
> > I would appreciate if you could shed some light on petals components
> > and service units bootstrap...
> >
> > - Does petals on reboot starts all components first and then all
> > service units or you start a component and then its service units?
> At restart, the recovery service restores the life-cycle state in the given order; component, SAs, SUs.
>
> Since the 2.1 release, the message traffic is hold until the SUs life-cycle are entirely recovered, to avoid reception of messages in components without having the bound SU recovered
>
> > - Can one component bootstrap depend on other components?
>
> JBI proposes to build a loose coupling application based on services. A component interacts with the others by seeking endpoints on the bus.
> The only common actions between components possible is by using the SA life-cycle.
>
> > - Can some service unit startup depend on other service unit? In
> > particular, can one send message from one SU to other SU during petals
> > startup?
>
> The same that previous.
> Maybe if you explain your dependence issue, others solution are possible
>
> > - Is there anything different in the distributed ESB case?
> You mean the platform distribution? No difference in a distributed environment, except that if a node crash or stop, its exposed endpoints are still available for the others node but not reachable until it restart. You can custom the routing strategy by weigthing low the endpoints that are not reachable to avoid to use them.
>
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Darko
> >
> > Be there when GIS and the Web unite!  Join us for an exciting GeoWeb
> > 2008 Conference!  For more details, please visit
> > www.geowebconference.org.
> > pièce jointe document plein texte (message-footer.txt)
> > --
> > You receive this message as a subscriber of the petals-users@... mailing list.
> > To unsubscribe: mailto:petals-users-unsubscribe@...
> > For general help: mailto:sympa@...?subject=help
> > OW2 mailing lists service home page: http://www.ow2.org/wws
> --
> Roland NAUDIN
> PEtALS Team
>
> EBM Websourcing
> 05 34 32 03 13
>
> Try PEtALS at
> http://petals.objectweb.org
>
>
> pièce jointe document plein texte (message-footer.txt)
> --
> You receive this message as a subscriber of the petals-users@... mailing list.
> To unsubscribe: mailto:petals-users-unsubscribe@...
> For general help: mailto:sympa@...?subject=help
> OW2 mailing lists service home page: http://www.ow2.org/wws

--

Roland NAUDIN
PEtALS Team

EBM Websourcing
05 34 32 03 13

Try PEtALS at
http://petals.objectweb.org




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