[mb-bugs] [MusicBrainz Bug Tracker] #3953: RFE: Kill off "Merge Releases (Various Artists)" edit type

[MusicBrainz Bug Tracker]

#3953: RFE: Kill off "Merge Releases (Various Artists)" edit type
--------------------------------+-------------------------------------------
 Reporter:  ojnkpjg             |       Owner:                                    
     Type:  enhancement         |      Status:  new                              
 Priority:  normal              |   Milestone:                                    
Component:  MusicBrainz Server  |     Version:                                    
 Keywords:  merge               |     Browser:  Netscape, Firefox, Mozilla (Gecko)
       Os:                      |  
--------------------------------+-------------------------------------------
 This edit type seems completely useless and only serves as a source of
 confusion and errors. As far as I know, the only difference between the
 two merge release edit types is that the VA one sets the target release's
 album artist to Various Artists. Just about every time I see a Merge
 Releases (VA) edit, it's either for two VA releases (so the other merge
 type would achieve the same result), or an editor error (either they
 didn't realize the album artist would be changed, or they didn't mean to
 select that edit type).

 So why does this still exist?

--
Ticket URL: <http://bugs.musicbrainz.org/ticket/3953>
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#3953: RFE: Kill off "Merge Releases (Various Artists)" edit type
---------------------------------+------------------------------------------
  Reporter:  ojnkpjg             |       Owner:      
      Type:  enhancement         |      Status:  new  
  Priority:  normal              |   Milestone:      
 Component:  MusicBrainz Server  |     Version:      
Resolution:                      |    Keywords:  merge
   Browser:                      |          Os:      
---------------------------------+------------------------------------------
Changes (by ojnkpjg):

  * browser:  Netscape, Firefox, Mozilla (Gecko) =>

--
Ticket URL: <http://bugs.musicbrainz.org/ticket/3953#comment:1>
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[MusicBrainz Bug Tracker]

#3953: RFE: Kill off "Merge Releases (Various Artists)" edit type
---------------------------------+------------------------------------------
  Reporter:  ojnkpjg             |       Owner:      
      Type:  enhancement         |      Status:  new  
  Priority:  normal              |   Milestone:      
 Component:  MusicBrainz Server  |     Version:      
Resolution:                      |    Keywords:  merge
   Browser:                      |          Os:      
---------------------------------+------------------------------------------
Comment (by murdos):

 If I've correctly understood the code, there are some differences between
 both edit types. Minor, but make a difference in rare cases.

 The first difference is the one ojnkpjg have noticed (target releases
 artist is forced to VA). IMO this behaviour should be changed, and target
 release artist should be kept.

 Now the second difference is when '''releases to be merged don't have the
 same number of tracks'''. [[BR]]
 {{{
 In SA mode, extra tracks will have their TrackArtist updated with the
 ReleaseArtist of the target release (which could be useful). In VA mode
 TrackArtists are not updated.
 }}}
 E.g. if we're going to merge single artist releases "R1" by artist "A1"
 and release "R2" by "A2". "R2" has one track more than "R1".
   1. If you merge in SA mode, you will get a release "R1" with the last
 track assigned to artist "A1".
   1. If you merge in VA mode, you will get a release "R1" with the last
 track assigned to artist "A2".

 So I only suggest to change the first difference, but keep both edits type
 since both have their utility. [[BR]]
 I don't really find that confusing: when I'm merging SA releases I use the
 SA mode, and VA mode for VA releases.

--
Ticket URL: <http://bugs.musicbrainz.org/ticket/3953#comment:2>
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#3953: RFE: Kill off "Merge Releases (Various Artists)" edit type
---------------------------------+------------------------------------------
  Reporter:  ojnkpjg             |       Owner:      
      Type:  enhancement         |      Status:  new  
  Priority:  normal              |   Milestone:      
 Component:  MusicBrainz Server  |     Version:      
Resolution:                      |    Keywords:  merge
   Browser:                      |          Os:      
---------------------------------+------------------------------------------
Comment (by murdos):

 BTW I've created 2 edits in order to test edits type difference:
 Edit:9364082 & Edit:9364054

--
Ticket URL: <http://bugs.musicbrainz.org/ticket/3953#comment:3>
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[MusicBrainz Bug Tracker]

#3953: RFE: Kill off "Merge Releases (Various Artists)" edit type
---------------------------------+------------------------------------------
  Reporter:  ojnkpjg             |       Owner:      
      Type:  enhancement         |      Status:  new  
  Priority:  normal              |   Milestone:      
 Component:  MusicBrainz Server  |     Version:      
Resolution:                      |    Keywords:  merge
   Browser:                      |          Os:      
---------------------------------+------------------------------------------
Comment (by voiceinsideyou):

 That behaviour is so obscure, murdos, that I really can't see it being
 "expected" or useful. People almost always fix/tidy the target release and
 don't expect the tracks/titles to be changed or added to.

 This is legacy and it continually creates confusion; and more often than
 not it creates incorrect releases where the ReleaseArtist is removed from
 the merged release by people doing Merge VA incorrectly. IMO, this side
 effect people continually forget/are unaware of greatly outweighs any
 utility from keeping both around.

 Even if both edit types are kept around for simplicity, I think the choice
 of which one to use should be system handled. If the target release has
 ReleaseArtist VA already, use VA, otherwise always use SA.

 In answer to why it's still around, it's because it's all caught up in
 TheGreatDispute at #1460. I suggested what I thought it could be changed
 to in that edit.

--
Ticket URL: <http://bugs.musicbrainz.org/ticket/3953#comment:4>
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#3953: RFE: Kill off "Merge Releases (Various Artists)" edit type
---------------------------------+------------------------------------------
  Reporter:  ojnkpjg             |       Owner:      
      Type:  enhancement         |      Status:  new  
  Priority:  normal              |   Milestone:      
 Component:  MusicBrainz Server  |     Version:      
Resolution:                      |    Keywords:  merge
   Browser:                      |          Os:      
---------------------------------+------------------------------------------
Comment (by murdos):

 Replying to [comment:4 voiceinsideyou]:
 > That behaviour is so obscure, murdos, that I really can't see it being
 "expected" or useful.

 Don't seem so obscure. To keep it simple: in VA you're expecting
 TrackArtist to be unchanged in the process, while it seems logic in SA
 that all TrackArtist are set to the target ReleaseArtist (or TrackArtist).

 > People almost always fix/tidy the target release

 You and I are doing that. Not everyone does.

 > This is legacy and it continually creates confusion; and more often than
 not it creates incorrect releases where the ReleaseArtist is removed from
 the merged release by people doing Merge VA incorrectly. IMO, this side
 effect people continually forget/are unaware of greatly outweighs any
 utility from keeping both around.

 Re-read my post. I do agree with that.

 > Even if both edit types are kept around for simplicity, I think the
 choice of which one to use should be system handled. If the target release
 has ReleaseArtist VA already, use VA, otherwise always use SA.

 It won't work in all cases.

--
Ticket URL: <http://bugs.musicbrainz.org/ticket/3953#comment:5>
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#3953: RFE: Kill off "Merge Releases (Various Artists)" edit type
---------------------------------+------------------------------------------
  Reporter:  ojnkpjg             |       Owner:      
      Type:  enhancement         |      Status:  new  
  Priority:  normal              |   Milestone:      
 Component:  MusicBrainz Server  |     Version:      
Resolution:                      |    Keywords:  merge
   Browser:                      |          Os:      
---------------------------------+------------------------------------------
Comment (by ojnkpjg):

 The utility of the second difference you mentioned above (which I had
 never heard of, and I'd be very suprised if anyone else has) is marginal
 at best. Merging albums with a different number of tracks is rare enough
 as it is -- I regularly check merge edits, and one of these comes up maybe
 once a month -- but of those already few cases, how many times does the
 editor intend to keep the source artist for the tracks that will be new to
 the merge target? Is there really a use case for this (other than when the
 track artist matches neither release artist, which should be handled
 automatically, e.g., merges of multiple artist albums with differing
 numbers of tracks)?

--
Ticket URL: <http://bugs.musicbrainz.org/ticket/3953#comment:6>
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#3953: RFE: Kill off "Merge Releases (Various Artists)" edit type
---------------------------------+------------------------------------------
  Reporter:  ojnkpjg             |       Owner:      
      Type:  enhancement         |      Status:  new  
  Priority:  normal              |   Milestone:      
 Component:  MusicBrainz Server  |     Version:      
Resolution:                      |    Keywords:  merge
   Browser:                      |          Os:      
---------------------------------+------------------------------------------
Comment (by voiceinsideyou):

 I personally don't think there is a valid use case for it. As you say,
 such merges are rare and any differing-track-numbers merges are almost
 always lesserTracks <mergeINTO> greaterTRacks; largely because of
 uncertainty and confusion over what exactly will happen if you merge the
 other direction. I don't think that uncertainty can be easily explained by
 documentation; and given it's limited utility personally think it's better
 to be removed.

 It's certainly hugely outweighed by the number of merges that are done in
 VA mode, removing a ReleaseArtist as a side-effect; which in turn VERY
 often leads to new dupes being added, requiring yet another merge to be
 done, as well as the ReleaseArtist to be fixed.

 Choosing VA mode is often done (even by experienced editors, me included)
 if merging an SA release into a correct VA one for fear the VA release
 will be "single artist"-ized if one chooses non-VA mode. Of course this
 doesn't actually happen; but a lot of people fear it will, so choose VA
 mode leading to the ReleaseArtist disappearing.

--
Ticket URL: <http://bugs.musicbrainz.org/ticket/3953#comment:7>
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#3953: RFE: Kill off "Merge Releases (Various Artists)" edit type
---------------------------------+------------------------------------------
  Reporter:  ojnkpjg             |       Owner:      
      Type:  enhancement         |      Status:  new  
  Priority:  normal              |   Milestone:      
 Component:  MusicBrainz Server  |     Version:      
Resolution:                      |    Keywords:  merge
   Browser:                      |          Os:      
---------------------------------+------------------------------------------
Comment (by zout):

 I say: let's retire this edit type!

--
Ticket URL: <http://bugs.musicbrainz.org/ticket/3953#comment:8>
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