[jira] Created: (MILYN-120) Implement Extensible XML authoring

Implement Extensible XML authoring
----------------------------------

                 Key: MILYN-120
                 URL: http://jira.codehaus.org/browse/MILYN-120
             Project: Milyn
          Issue Type: New Feature
          Components: Smooks Core
            Reporter: Maurice Zeijen
            Assignee: Tom Fennelly


Spring has this nice feature that you can use extensions on the XML configuration. The chapter in the spring documentation which explains this is: http://static.springframework.org/spring/docs/2.5.x/reference/extensible-xml.html

Maybe it is possible to reuse stuff from spring for this. But I don't know if we want to give smooks Spring dependencies.

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Tom Fennelly updated MILYN-120:
-------------------------------

    Fix Version/s: Smooks v1.1

> Implement Extensible XML authoring
> ----------------------------------
>
>                 Key: MILYN-120
>                 URL: http://jira.codehaus.org/browse/MILYN-120
>             Project: Milyn
>          Issue Type: New Feature
>          Components: Smooks Core
>            Reporter: Maurice Zeijen
>            Assignee: Tom Fennelly
>             Fix For: Smooks v1.1
>
>
> Spring has this nice feature that you can use extensions on the XML configuration. The chapter in the spring documentation which explains this is: http://static.springframework.org/spring/docs/2.5.x/reference/extensible-xml.html
> Maybe it is possible to reuse stuff from spring for this. But I don't know if we want to give smooks Spring dependencies.

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Maurice Zeijen updated MILYN-120:
---------------------------------

    Priority: Blocker  (was: Major)

> Implement Extensible XML authoring
> ----------------------------------
>
>                 Key: MILYN-120
>                 URL: http://jira.codehaus.org/browse/MILYN-120
>             Project: Milyn
>          Issue Type: New Feature
>          Components: Smooks Core
>            Reporter: Maurice Zeijen
>            Assignee: Tom Fennelly
>            Priority: Blocker
>             Fix For: Smooks v1.1
>
>
> Spring has this nice feature that you can use extensions on the XML configuration. The chapter in the spring documentation which explains this is: http://static.springframework.org/spring/docs/2.5.x/reference/extensible-xml.html
> Maybe it is possible to reuse stuff from spring for this. But I don't know if we want to give smooks Spring dependencies.

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Work on MILYN-120 started by Tom Fennelly.

> Implement Extensible XML authoring
> ----------------------------------
>
>                 Key: MILYN-120
>                 URL: http://jira.codehaus.org/browse/MILYN-120
>             Project: Milyn
>          Issue Type: New Feature
>          Components: Smooks Core
>            Reporter: Maurice Zeijen
>            Assignee: Tom Fennelly
>            Priority: Blocker
>             Fix For: Smooks v1.1
>
>
> Spring has this nice feature that you can use extensions on the XML configuration. The chapter in the spring documentation which explains this is: http://static.springframework.org/spring/docs/2.5.x/reference/extensible-xml.html
> Maybe it is possible to reuse stuff from spring for this. But I don't know if we want to give smooks Spring dependencies.

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Tom Fennelly commented on MILYN-120:
------------------------------------

Basic config extension framework is in place.  See the Javabean Cartridge.

> Implement Extensible XML authoring
> ----------------------------------
>
>                 Key: MILYN-120
>                 URL: http://jira.codehaus.org/browse/MILYN-120
>             Project: Milyn
>          Issue Type: New Feature
>          Components: Smooks Core
>            Reporter: Maurice Zeijen
>            Assignee: Tom Fennelly
>            Priority: Blocker
>             Fix For: Smooks v1.1
>
>
> Spring has this nice feature that you can use extensions on the XML configuration. The chapter in the spring documentation which explains this is: http://static.springframework.org/spring/docs/2.5.x/reference/extensible-xml.html
> Maybe it is possible to reuse stuff from spring for this. But I don't know if we want to give smooks Spring dependencies.

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Tom Fennelly commented on MILYN-120:
------------------------------------

We should look at something like the [DocFlex/Javadoc|http://www.filigris.com/products/docflex_javadoc/about.php#docflex-doclet] tool for generating user documentation from the extended config XSD documentation annotations.

> Implement Extensible XML authoring
> ----------------------------------
>
>                 Key: MILYN-120
>                 URL: http://jira.codehaus.org/browse/MILYN-120
>             Project: Milyn
>          Issue Type: New Feature
>          Components: Smooks Core
>            Reporter: Maurice Zeijen
>            Assignee: Tom Fennelly
>            Priority: Blocker
>             Fix For: Smooks v1.1
>
>
> Spring has this nice feature that you can use extensions on the XML configuration. The chapter in the spring documentation which explains this is: http://static.springframework.org/spring/docs/2.5.x/reference/extensible-xml.html
> Maybe it is possible to reuse stuff from spring for this. But I don't know if we want to give smooks Spring dependencies.

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Leonid Rudy commented on MILYN-120:
-----------------------------------

> We should look at something like the DocFlex/Javadoc tool for generating user documentation from the extended config XSD documentation annotations.

Well.. and what? Have found that something?

It seems to me, you guys are like sort of you don't see woods behind trees.

Have you looked at the page nearby the tool you mention (DocFlex/Javadoc):

http://www.filigris.com/products/docflex_xml/xsddoc/

Is it not what you need???

That thing is a lot more advanced and powerful!

Look also at the whole product:
http://www.filigris.com/products/docflex_xml/

> Implement Extensible XML authoring
> ----------------------------------
>
>                 Key: MILYN-120
>                 URL: http://jira.codehaus.org/browse/MILYN-120
>             Project: Milyn
>          Issue Type: New Feature
>          Components: Smooks Core
>            Reporter: Maurice Zeijen
>            Assignee: Tom Fennelly
>            Priority: Blocker
>             Fix For: Smooks v1.1
>
>
> Spring has this nice feature that you can use extensions on the XML configuration. The chapter in the spring documentation which explains this is: http://static.springframework.org/spring/docs/2.5.x/reference/extensible-xml.html
> Maybe it is possible to reuse stuff from spring for this. But I don't know if we want to give smooks Spring dependencies.

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Maurice Zeijen updated MILYN-120:
---------------------------------

    Attachment: smooks-schema-documentation.zip

I tried out DoxFlex XML and generated a schema configuration with the free version. I attached the result to this issue.

My oppinion is:
The tool can generate a very complete documentation. Too complete actually and that is the problem. The default template, which you can't change in the free version, simply shows to much. We probably only care about the xml structure and the description per element and attribute.

> Implement Extensible XML authoring
> ----------------------------------
>
>                 Key: MILYN-120
>                 URL: http://jira.codehaus.org/browse/MILYN-120
>             Project: Milyn
>          Issue Type: New Feature
>          Components: Smooks Core
>            Reporter: Maurice Zeijen
>            Assignee: Tom Fennelly
>            Priority: Blocker
>             Fix For: Smooks v1.1
>
>         Attachments: smooks-schema-documentation.zip
>
>
> Spring has this nice feature that you can use extensions on the XML configuration. The chapter in the spring documentation which explains this is: http://static.springframework.org/spring/docs/2.5.x/reference/extensible-xml.html
> Maybe it is possible to reuse stuff from spring for this. But I don't know if we want to give smooks Spring dependencies.

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Leonid Rudy commented on MILYN-120:
-----------------------------------

> The tool can generate a very complete documentation. Too complete actually and that is the problem.

That's right! That's precisely as intended.

Well, I can tell you... After being more than a year absolutely free and not generating even enough to cover the web-hosting expenses and, at that, witnessing that guys from Microsoft, Oracle, Google and other fat companies are happily using our tool (but their managers, at that, are not willing even to reply to any my e-mails and offers), we decided to do something about it.

I don't know who feeds you guys when you develop your opensource, but we need to feed ourselves. And I can asure, you won't be able to do such things in your spare time!

Generaing docs by XML schemas is an extremely complex task (let alone some kind of an easy-adjustable tool). Basically, the only other viable technology is XSLT. But I guess, you can easily find on Google everything made on it. Even the best implementations are not so impressive. But even them are parts of commercial products (like XMLSpy, Stylus Studio and so on). Ironically, now even some Stylus Studio developers are using our XML schema docgen! Can we expect to meet ends from this after all?

> Implement Extensible XML authoring
> ----------------------------------
>
>                 Key: MILYN-120
>                 URL: http://jira.codehaus.org/browse/MILYN-120
>             Project: Milyn
>          Issue Type: New Feature
>          Components: Smooks Core
>            Reporter: Maurice Zeijen
>            Assignee: Tom Fennelly
>            Priority: Blocker
>             Fix For: Smooks v1.1
>
>         Attachments: smooks-schema-documentation.zip
>
>
> Spring has this nice feature that you can use extensions on the XML configuration. The chapter in the spring documentation which explains this is: http://static.springframework.org/spring/docs/2.5.x/reference/extensible-xml.html
> Maybe it is possible to reuse stuff from spring for this. But I don't know if we want to give smooks Spring dependencies.

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Tom Fennelly commented on MILYN-120:
------------------------------------

Way to go Leonid.... what an entrance lol...

I certainly can't see the wood from the tree when it comes to your ramblings there ;-)  What exactly is your point?  You've said lots and at the same time you've said nothing of any interest wrt to this JIRA task.  

So we would like to generate some docs from the XSDs in question.  We will find something to do this and that something may be DocFlex tool/product (which looks really nice btw... but I haven't tried it yet).  That's about the size of it :-)  This issue doesn't really warrant any debate or comments, but thanks for your contribution :-)

> Implement Extensible XML authoring
> ----------------------------------
>
>                 Key: MILYN-120
>                 URL: http://jira.codehaus.org/browse/MILYN-120
>             Project: Milyn
>          Issue Type: New Feature
>          Components: Smooks Core
>            Reporter: Maurice Zeijen
>            Assignee: Tom Fennelly
>            Priority: Blocker
>             Fix For: Smooks v1.1
>
>         Attachments: smooks-schema-documentation.zip
>
>
> Spring has this nice feature that you can use extensions on the XML configuration. The chapter in the spring documentation which explains this is: http://static.springframework.org/spring/docs/2.5.x/reference/extensible-xml.html
> Maybe it is possible to reuse stuff from spring for this. But I don't know if we want to give smooks Spring dependencies.

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Maurice Zeijen commented on MILYN-120:
--------------------------------------

Two alternatives to DoxFlex XML are:
 - http://xml.fiforms.org/xs3p/ : an opensource xslt schema for pretty printing the schema file)
 - http://www.buldocs.com/xnsdoc/ : A documentation generator for XML Schema in a JavaDoc like visualization. It is free for opensource projects.

> Implement Extensible XML authoring
> ----------------------------------
>
>                 Key: MILYN-120
>                 URL: http://jira.codehaus.org/browse/MILYN-120
>             Project: Milyn
>          Issue Type: New Feature
>          Components: Smooks Core
>            Reporter: Maurice Zeijen
>            Assignee: Tom Fennelly
>            Priority: Blocker
>             Fix For: Smooks v1.1
>
>         Attachments: smooks-schema-documentation.zip
>
>
> Spring has this nice feature that you can use extensions on the XML configuration. The chapter in the spring documentation which explains this is: http://static.springframework.org/spring/docs/2.5.x/reference/extensible-xml.html
> Maybe it is possible to reuse stuff from spring for this. But I don't know if we want to give smooks Spring dependencies.

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Maurice Zeijen updated MILYN-120:
---------------------------------

    Attachment: buldocs-smooks-schema-documentation.zip

I uploaded the result from the Buldocs schema parser. Please not that not all pages have contents because only 50 pages where generated because we have no valid license.

In my opinion this documentation is a lot clearer for our purposes.

> Implement Extensible XML authoring
> ----------------------------------
>
>                 Key: MILYN-120
>                 URL: http://jira.codehaus.org/browse/MILYN-120
>             Project: Milyn
>          Issue Type: New Feature
>          Components: Smooks Core
>            Reporter: Maurice Zeijen
>            Assignee: Tom Fennelly
>            Priority: Blocker
>             Fix For: Smooks v1.1
>
>         Attachments: buldocs-smooks-schema-documentation.zip, smooks-schema-documentation.zip
>
>
> Spring has this nice feature that you can use extensions on the XML configuration. The chapter in the spring documentation which explains this is: http://static.springframework.org/spring/docs/2.5.x/reference/extensible-xml.html
> Maybe it is possible to reuse stuff from spring for this. But I don't know if we want to give smooks Spring dependencies.

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Leonid Rudy commented on MILYN-120:
-----------------------------------

> I certainly can't see the wood from the tree when it comes to your ramblings there

My comment was about your reference to our product DocFlex/Javadoc. I meant that you failed to notice on the same site a much bigger thing that was directly related to your problem.

Concerning woods and trees, I'm not sure if there is such an expression in English... I used it from a different language where it means that someone cannot see a big thing behind smaller and insignificant ones.

As to the "ramblings"...

Okay, I may agree, it doesn't touch problems of your project. I just meant to explain why there is such a stupid and artificial limitation in our product. That is just the same stupid and artificial as the core problems we experience ourselves.

> Two alternatives to DoxFlex XML are:

Fine, I guess it is about all you can find out there.

> http://xml.fiforms.org/xs3p/

Maybe it looks good and useful for little XML schemas. But I don't find this tool much useful to document and to help finding anything within a big XML schema (for example, like W3C Schema for Schemas or other even bigger ones)

By the way, concerning a little schema, you can just print it out and that will be the documentation for itself. No special doc-gens will be needed!

> http://www.buldocs.com/xnsdoc/

I appreciate this tool and we also used some ideas of it (e.g. the overall organization of the documentation). The guy was actively trying to sell it during 2005... Now, it looks like he has given up. No changes are visible since two the recent years...

Concerning overall open source industry (I guess, you will call this "ramblings" again), I have to say, I'm deeply suspicious about it. I do not believe that such thing like Eclipse, all Apache projects and a lot of others are really being developed by some well-wisher geeks (I've never seen any by myself) and especially, don't believe that such remotely sitting geeks can organize themselves into a well coordinated team. Rather, I believe, those projects must all be based on a big capital, and therefore financed, manned and maintained by big corporations. If so, this is essentially a marketing trick disguised into folksy garb. What is bad about it is that such a hypocrisy introduces in people a wrong a perception of the software industry as a whole, how software is made and how new ideas come to life. That perception implicitly adds more pressure on the small companies struggling for survival.

OK. That was my opinion and, I think, you won't like it. I won't be meddling here an more.

Anyway, I wish everything best to you and to your projects!

Leonid Rudy

> Implement Extensible XML authoring
> ----------------------------------
>
>                 Key: MILYN-120
>                 URL: http://jira.codehaus.org/browse/MILYN-120
>             Project: Milyn
>          Issue Type: New Feature
>          Components: Smooks Core
>            Reporter: Maurice Zeijen
>            Assignee: Tom Fennelly
>            Priority: Blocker
>             Fix For: Smooks v1.1
>
>         Attachments: buldocs-smooks-schema-documentation.zip, smooks-schema-documentation.zip
>
>
> Spring has this nice feature that you can use extensions on the XML configuration. The chapter in the spring documentation which explains this is: http://static.springframework.org/spring/docs/2.5.x/reference/extensible-xml.html
> Maybe it is possible to reuse stuff from spring for this. But I don't know if we want to give smooks Spring dependencies.

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Tom Fennelly commented on MILYN-120:
------------------------------------

Thanks Leonid.

> Implement Extensible XML authoring
> ----------------------------------
>
>                 Key: MILYN-120
>                 URL: http://jira.codehaus.org/browse/MILYN-120
>             Project: Milyn
>          Issue Type: New Feature
>          Components: Smooks Core
>            Reporter: Maurice Zeijen
>            Assignee: Tom Fennelly
>            Priority: Blocker
>             Fix For: Smooks v1.1
>
>         Attachments: buldocs-smooks-schema-documentation.zip, smooks-schema-documentation.zip
>
>
> Spring has this nice feature that you can use extensions on the XML configuration. The chapter in the spring documentation which explains this is: http://static.springframework.org/spring/docs/2.5.x/reference/extensible-xml.html
> Maybe it is possible to reuse stuff from spring for this. But I don't know if we want to give smooks Spring dependencies.

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Leonid Rudy commented on MILYN-120:
-----------------------------------

Hi again,

I've looked at your site (codehaus.org) once again and found this page:

http://codehaus.org/supporters/software.html

Well, I don't know what is the ultimate truth here... and, in addition, you are not going to buy anything from us anyway :)

So, I just can offer you some kind of a deal.

We will donate you a "haus-wide" license for the full DocFlex/XML product (including the XSDDoc template set) -- however, only for your organization and only for your non-commercial projects!

In return, you will put us on that very page, along with the "yWorks" and IntelliJ IDEA guys (I happen to know them too. IntelliJ -- I used to work together with the founding guys yet in TogetherSoft)

You will need to publish a logo and back-link to us with the saying how happy you are with our product ;-)

... and I hope, you will be, because using the Template Designer available in the full edition, you will be able to customize all the templates and the documentation they produce as much as you need. (BTW, later about the end of this year, we are going also to release a full-blown WSDL docgen implemented in the same way -- as "WSDLDoc" template set; it will be actualy based on the current XSDDoc and we are working on this now)

I see, your site is visited a lot. So, mentioning us (with the good words :) and the back-link will be enough payment for everything.

What do you think?

> Implement Extensible XML authoring
> ----------------------------------
>
>                 Key: MILYN-120
>                 URL: http://jira.codehaus.org/browse/MILYN-120
>             Project: Milyn
>          Issue Type: New Feature
>          Components: Smooks Core
>            Reporter: Maurice Zeijen
>            Assignee: Tom Fennelly
>            Priority: Blocker
>             Fix For: Smooks v1.1
>
>         Attachments: buldocs-smooks-schema-documentation.zip, smooks-schema-documentation.zip
>
>
> Spring has this nice feature that you can use extensions on the XML configuration. The chapter in the spring documentation which explains t