[GSOC] help choosing a js lybrary/wrapper

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Miguel Bento
[GSOC] help choosing a js lybrary/wrapper
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First of all, hi again!

I'm developing the collaborative business drawing framework to integrate on
XWiki and currently need some feedback.

In order to provide the abillity of drawing SVG/VML/Canvas objects in the
browser, this framework has many options that i shall explain:
*
A) Tatami, the GWT wrapper of the Dojo Toolkit library (
http://code.google.com/p/tatami/)*

This is by far the most used option, and the reasons are somewhat obvious.

   - It wraps up the dojo toolkit code for GWT providing access to the GFX
   package's functionalities and thus giving us the possibility to draw objects
   in SVG/VML/Canvas. This is a very important point as it provides support for
   Safari with canvas objects and IE with VML objects, accomplishing  thus a
   better product.
   - Provides the creation of basic and advanced drawing figures from
   squares to paths with drag and drop, scale, rotate and parameters
   specification.
   - It has the biggest active developer's base, having a lot of activity on
   their forum (http://groups.google.com/group/tatami)
   - It gives us efficiency and usability by being well developed.
   Personally, this is a key point for me as i've seen a lot of svg drawing
   boards slow and badly done.

A demo of the tatami can be found here (
http://tatami.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/site/samples/TatamiDemo/index.html )
but don't mind the slow reaction of the site as it's using aloot of dojo
objects(Fisheye, etc) and it's runing from the svn. After some coding with
it, i realized it can indeed be very fast.

IMHO, this looks like the winner.. we should use this wrapper for the job
and if necessary develop some new items on it to provide us the required
functionalities, which will also be needed in any other option.

*B) JSGraphic's library (
http://www.walterzorn.com/jsgraphics/jsgraphics_e.htm)

*As it's the case with Dojo Toolkit, this library can be used in GWT by
including a wrapper on the project. The downsides of this alternative are
obvious as, for example, it doesn't support's drag and drop or any
interaction with the objects and is a one man project.

It's allways good to have options heh!

*C) Develop an API fit to the job*

As this option might bring some (? small) benefits in efficiency and
additional funcionalities, on the other hand, it's slowed by the time
required to develop the API knowing that there are some fully functional
good options out there.

Talking about functionalities, Tatami provides every svg object and property
that i remind me of and it's efficiency and usability are high, so there
shouldn't be much more to do in this area. (besides implementating screw
transformations, which aren't included in the latest realease of Tatami :)


In the next days i'll be building a propotype of a drawing API so please
give me your opinions.

My vote : +1 Tatami

Best Regards,
Miguel Bento.
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Miguel Bento
Re: [GSOC] help choosing a js lybrary/wrapper
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ohh, sorry, the subject of the email should have contained a [xwiki-devs]
tag on the begining :( :S guess it's time to go to bed!
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Sergiu Dumitriu-2
Re: [GSOC] help choosing a js lybrary/wrapper
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Miguel Bento wrote:
> ohh, sorry, the subject of the email should have contained a [xwiki-devs]
> tag on the begining :( :S guess it's time to go to bed!

No, it is automatically added.
--
Sergiu Dumitriu
http://purl.org/net/sergiu/
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Sergiu Dumitriu-2
Re: [GSOC] help choosing a js lybrary/wrapper
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In reply to this post by Miguel Bento
Miguel Bento wrote:

> First of all, hi again!
>
> I'm developing the collaborative business drawing framework to integrate on
> XWiki and currently need some feedback.
>
> In order to provide the abillity of drawing SVG/VML/Canvas objects in the
> browser, this framework has many options that i shall explain:
> *
> A) Tatami, the GWT wrapper of the Dojo Toolkit library (
> http://code.google.com/p/tatami/)*
>
> This is by far the most used option, and the reasons are somewhat obvious.
>
>    - It wraps up the dojo toolkit code for GWT providing access to the GFX
>    package's functionalities and thus giving us the possibility to draw objects
>    in SVG/VML/Canvas. This is a very important point as it provides support for
>    Safari with canvas objects and IE with VML objects, accomplishing  thus a
>    better product.
>    - Provides the creation of basic and advanced drawing figures from
>    squares to paths with drag and drop, scale, rotate and parameters
>    specification.
>    - It has the biggest active developer's base, having a lot of activity on
>    their forum (http://groups.google.com/group/tatami)
>    - It gives us efficiency and usability by being well developed.
>    Personally, this is a key point for me as i've seen a lot of svg drawing
>    boards slow and badly done.
>
> A demo of the tatami can be found here (
> http://tatami.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/site/samples/TatamiDemo/index.html )
> but don't mind the slow reaction of the site as it's using aloot of dojo
> objects(Fisheye, etc) and it's runing from the svn. After some coding with
> it, i realized it can indeed be very fast.
>
> IMHO, this looks like the winner.. we should use this wrapper for the job
> and if necessary develop some new items on it to provide us the required
> functionalities, which will also be needed in any other option.
>
> *B) JSGraphic's library (
> http://www.walterzorn.com/jsgraphics/jsgraphics_e.htm)
>
> *As it's the case with Dojo Toolkit, this library can be used in GWT by
> including a wrapper on the project. The downsides of this alternative are
> obvious as, for example, it doesn't support's drag and drop or any
> interaction with the objects and is a one man project.
>
> It's allways good to have options heh!
>
> *C) Develop an API fit to the job*
>
> As this option might bring some (? small) benefits in efficiency and
> additional funcionalities, on the other hand, it's slowed by the time
> required to develop the API knowing that there are some fully functional
> good options out there.
>
> Talking about functionalities, Tatami provides every svg object and property
> that i remind me of and it's efficiency and usability are high, so there
> shouldn't be much more to do in this area. (besides implementating screw
> transformations, which aren't included in the latest realease of Tatami :)
>
>
> In the next days i'll be building a propotype of a drawing API so please
> give me your opinions.
>
> My vote : +1 Tatami

Tatami looks like the best option, indeed, although I don't like the demo page they have. The
graphics libraries are still immature, mostly because people still prefer to use Flash for dynamic
pages. Option C would be good if we had infinite time or infinite manpower, but right now it would
be just a waste of time.
--
Sergiu Dumitriu
http://purl.org/net/sergiu/
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Miguel Bento
Re: [GSOC] help choosing a js lybrary/wrapper
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> Tatami looks like the best option, indeed, although I don't like the demo
> page they have. The
> graphics libraries are still immature, mostly because people still prefer
> to use Flash for dynamic
> pages. Option C would be good if we had infinite time or infinite manpower,
> but right now it would
> be just a waste of time.
> --
> Sergiu Dumitriu
> http://purl.org/net/sergiu/
> _______________________________________________
> devs mailing list
> devs@...
> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
>


I think the demo page is so slow because of the fisheye(the mac style menu
bar) and because the page is running from a wicked source( ?! ). I've tried
it out and it seems much faster. Besides there isn't any other way of doing
this, even if i made the API, i would have to create the objects with the
CreateElement(namespace, object), i would have to make all the setters and
getters like curr_obj.get_path() and so on. So i guess performance shouldn't
be an issue and even though i'll be using Tatami, i'll still develop some
new features to tweak it!

The only thing i haven't tested was to draw many objects in the DOM and see
how the responsiveness of the application behaved. But that can be a little
bit optimized and it's a problem of the browser.

Option D) If you want a really really faster aplication, we could use Canvas
objects instead of SVG/VML. The only big downside is that canvas doesn't has
the Text object :( That can be worked out with a hack, but then you'll loose
the abillity to do Z ordering in the panel (bring forward,.bring back).

Good luck to France :),
Miguel Bento.
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Jean-Vincent Drean
Re: [GSOC] help choosing a js lybrary/wrapper
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In reply to this post by Miguel Bento
On Tue, Jun 17, 2008 at 4:35 AM, Miguel Bento <ninfomaniak@...> wrote:

> First of all, hi again!
>
> I'm developing the collaborative business drawing framework to integrate on
> XWiki and currently need some feedback.
>
> In order to provide the abillity of drawing SVG/VML/Canvas objects in the
> browser, this framework has many options that i shall explain:
> *
> A) Tatami, the GWT wrapper of the Dojo Toolkit library (
> http://code.google.com/p/tatami/)*
>

+1 for A), I'm eager to see how much it can be optimized since the
demo is really heavy.

--
Jean-Vincent Drean
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Ludovic Dubost-2
Re: [GSOC] help choosing a js lybrary/wrapper
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In reply to this post by Miguel Bento

Clearly +1 for tatami/Dojo. With an active developer base on tatami and
no doubt about the Dojo developer base we are safe. The other projects
are not advanced enough and working from scratch is crazy.

Ludovic

Miguel Bento wrote:

> First of all, hi again!
>
> I'm developing the collaborative business drawing framework to integrate on
> XWiki and currently need some feedback.
>
> In order to provide the abillity of drawing SVG/VML/Canvas objects in the
> browser, this framework has many options that i shall explain:
> *
> A) Tatami, the GWT wrapper of the Dojo Toolkit library (
> http://code.google.com/p/tatami/)*
>
> This is by far the most used option, and the reasons are somewhat obvious.
>
>    - It wraps up the dojo toolkit code for GWT providing access to the GFX
>    package's functionalities and thus giving us the possibility to draw objects
>    in SVG/VML/Canvas. This is a very important point as it provides support for
>    Safari with canvas objects and IE with VML objects, accomplishing  thus a
>    better product.
>    - Provides the creation of basic and advanced drawing figures from
>    squares to paths with drag and drop, scale, rotate and parameters
>    specification.
>    - It has the biggest active developer's base, having a lot of activity on
>    their forum (http://groups.google.com/group/tatami)
>    - It gives us efficiency and usability by being well developed.
>    Personally, this is a key point for me as i've seen a lot of svg drawing
>    boards slow and badly done.
>
> A demo of the tatami can be found here (
> http://tatami.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/site/samples/TatamiDemo/index.html )
> but don't mind the slow reaction of the site as it's using aloot of dojo
> objects(Fisheye, etc) and it's runing from the svn. After some coding with
> it, i realized it can indeed be very fast.
>
> IMHO, this looks like the winner.. we should use this wrapper for the job
> and if necessary develop some new items on it to provide us the required
> functionalities, which will also be needed in any other option.
>
> *B) JSGraphic's library (
> http://www.walterzorn.com/jsgraphics/jsgraphics_e.htm)
>
> *As it's the case with Dojo Toolkit, this library can be used in GWT by
> including a wrapper on the project. The downsides of this alternative are
> obvious as, for example, it doesn't support's drag and drop or any
> interaction with the objects and is a one man project.
>
> It's allways good to have options heh!
>
> *C) Develop an API fit to the job*
>
> As this option might bring some (? small) benefits in efficiency and
> additional funcionalities, on the other hand, it's slowed by the time
> required to develop the API knowing that there are some fully functional
> good options out there.
>
> Talking about functionalities, Tatami provides every svg object and property
> that i remind me of and it's efficiency and usability are high, so there
> shouldn't be much more to do in this area. (besides implementating screw
> transformations, which aren't included in the latest realease of Tatami :)
>
>
> In the next days i'll be building a propotype of a drawing API so please
> give me your opinions.
>
> My vote : +1 Tatami
>
> Best Regards,
> Miguel Bento.
> _______________________________________________
> devs mailing list
> devs@...
> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
>
>  


--
Ludovic Dubost
Blog: http://blog.ludovic.org/
XWiki: http://www.xwiki.com
Skype: ldubost GTalk: ldubost

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Jonas von Malottki
Re: [GSOC] help choosing a js lybrary/wrapper
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Hi Miguel,

its a little late but I found a Framework named Draw2d for Javascript
based drawing.
http://draw2d.org/draw2d/

The Examples are really nice and show the power and possibilities of the
  framework. http://draw2d.org/draw2d/examples_short

Maybe you can use some parts of that or get some ideas from it.

Nice greetings
Jonas

Miguel Bento wrote:

> First of all, hi again!
>
> I'm developing the collaborative business drawing framework to integrate on
> XWiki and currently need some feedback.
>
> In order to provide the abillity of drawing SVG/VML/Canvas objects in the
> browser, this framework has many options that i shall explain:
> *
> A) Tatami, the GWT wrapper of the Dojo Toolkit library (
> http://code.google.com/p/tatami/)*
>
> This is by far the most used option, and the reasons are somewhat obvious.
>
>    - It wraps up the dojo toolkit code for GWT providing access to the GFX
>    package's functionalities and thus giving us the possibility to draw objects
>    in SVG/VML/Canvas. This is a very important point as it provides support for
>    Safari with canvas objects and IE with VML objects, accomplishing  thus a
>    better product.
>    - Provides the creation of basic and advanced drawing figures from
>    squares to paths with drag and drop, scale, rotate and parameters
>    specification.
>    - It has the biggest active developer's base, having a lot of activity on
>    their forum (http://groups.google.com/group/tatami)
>    - It gives us efficiency and usability by being well developed.
>    Personally, this is a key point for me as i've seen a lot of svg drawing
>    boards slow and badly done.
>
> A demo of the tatami can be found here (
> http://tatami.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/site/samples/TatamiDemo/index.html )
> but don't mind the slow reaction of the site as it's using aloot of dojo
> objects(Fisheye, etc) and it's runing from the svn. After some coding with
> it, i realized it can indeed be very fast.
>
> IMHO, this looks like the winner.. we should use this wrapper for the job
> and if necessary develop some new items on it to provide us the required
> functionalities, which will also be needed in any other option.
>
> *B) JSGraphic's library (
> http://www.walterzorn.com/jsgraphics/jsgraphics_e.htm)
>
> *As it's the case with Dojo Toolkit, this library can be used in GWT by
> including a wrapper on the project. The downsides of this alternative are
> obvious as, for example, it doesn't support's drag and drop or any
> interaction with the objects and is a one man project.
>
> It's allways good to have options heh!
>
> *C) Develop an API fit to the job*
>
> As this option might bring some (? small) benefits in efficiency and
> additional funcionalities, on the other hand, it's slowed by the time
> required to develop the API knowing that there are some fully functional
> good options out there.
>
> Talking about functionalities, Tatami provides every svg object and property
> that i remind me of and it's efficiency and usability are high, so there
> shouldn't be much more to do in this area. (besides implementating screw
> transformations, which aren't included in the latest realease of Tatami :)
>
>
> In the next days i'll be building a propotype of a drawing API so please
> give me your opinions.
>
> My vote : +1 Tatami
>
> Best Regards,
> Miguel Bento.
> _______________________________________________
> devs mailing list
> devs@...
> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs

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Miguel Bento
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Seems pretty good! Thanks for the tip, i'll have a look on it and post a
summary about it.

Best Regards,
Miguel Bento.
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Asiri Rathnayake
Re: [GSOC] help choosing a js lybrary/wrapper
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On Tue, Jun 17, 2008 at 8:08 AM, Miguel Bento <ninfomaniak@...> wrote:

> ohh, sorry, the subject of the email should have contained a [xwiki-devs]
> tag on the begining :( :S guess it's time to go to bed!


[xwiki-devs] tag doesn't appear in gmail if you compose it yourself because
the tag is only added in xwiki mail servers before sending it to all other
subscribers (except you).

;)


>
> _______________________________________________
> devs mailing list
> devs@...
> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
>
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Pascal Voitot
Re: [GSOC] help choosing a js lybrary/wrapper
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In reply to this post by Jonas von Malottki
On Sat, Jul 5, 2008 at 11:02 AM, Jonas von Malottki <yoshtec@...> wrote:

> Hi Miguel,
>
> its a little late but I found a Framework named Draw2d for Javascript
> based drawing.
> http://draw2d.org/draw2d/
>
> The Examples are really nice and show the power and possibilities of the
>  framework. http://draw2d.org/draw2d/examples_short
>
> Maybe you can use some parts of that or get some ideas from it.
>

if you need to see something really nice in JS drawing and if you don't
already know it, just try MXGRAPH...
It's not free but I find it quite impressive, nice looking, clean and
quick...

Pascal



>
> Nice greetings
> Jonas
>
> Miguel Bento wrote:
> > First of all, hi again!
> >
> > I'm developing the collaborative business drawing framework to integrate
> on
> > XWiki and currently need some feedback.
> >
> > In order to provide the abillity of drawing SVG/VML/Canvas objects in the
> > browser, this framework has many options that i shall explain:
> > *
> > A) Tatami, the GWT wrapper of the Dojo Toolkit library (
> > http://code.google.com/p/tatami/)*<http://code.google.com/p/tatami/%29*>
> >
> > This is by far the most used option, and the reasons are somewhat
> obvious.
> >
> >    - It wraps up the dojo toolkit code for GWT providing access to the
> GFX
> >    package's functionalities and thus giving us the possibility to draw
> objects
> >    in SVG/VML/Canvas. This is a very important point as it provides
> support for
> >    Safari with canvas objects and IE with VML objects, accomplishing
>  thus a
> >    better product.
> >    - Provides the creation of basic and advanced drawing figures from
> >    squares to paths with drag and drop, scale, rotate and parameters
> >    specification.
> >    - It has the biggest active developer's base, having a lot of activity
> on
> >    their forum (http://groups.google.com/group/tatami)
> >    - It gives us efficiency and usability by being well developed.
> >    Personally, this is a key point for me as i've seen a lot of svg
> drawing
> >    boards slow and badly done.
> >
> > A demo of the tatami can be found here (
> >
> http://tatami.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/site/samples/TatamiDemo/index.html)
> > but don't mind the slow reaction of the site as it's using aloot of dojo
> > objects(Fisheye, etc) and it's runing from the svn. After some coding
> with
> > it, i realized it can indeed be very fast.
> >
> > IMHO, this looks like the winner.. we should use this wrapper for the job
> > and if necessary develop some new items on it to provide us the required
> > functionalities, which will also be needed in any other option.
> >
> > *B) JSGraphic's library (
> > http://www.walterzorn.com/jsgraphics/jsgraphics_e.htm)
> >
> > *As it's the case with Dojo Toolkit, this library can be used in GWT by
> > including a wrapper on the project. The downsides of this alternative are
> > obvious as, for example, it doesn't support's drag and drop or any
> > interaction with the objects and is a one man project.
> >
> > It's allways good to have options heh!
> >
> > *C) Develop an API fit to the job*
> >
> > As this option might bring some (? small) benefits in efficiency and
> > additional funcionalities, on the other hand, it's slowed by the time
> > required to develop the API knowing that there are some fully functional
> > good options out there.
> >
> > Talking about functionalities, Tatami provides every svg object and
> property
> > that i remind me of and it's efficiency and usability are high, so there
> > shouldn't be much more to do in this area. (besides implementating screw
> > transformations, which aren't included in the latest realease of Tatami
> :)
> >
> >
> > In the next days i'll be building a propotype of a drawing API so please
> > give me your opinions.
> >
> > My vote : +1 Tatami
> >
> > Best Regards,
> > Miguel Bento.
> > _______________________________________________
> > devs mailing list
> > devs@...
> > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
>
> _______________________________________________
> devs mailing list
> devs@...
> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
>
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