[Announce] New tasks web Bpages for all CDDs

[Andreas Tille]

Hi,

I'd like to announce the new tasks pages generating system for the
CDD tasks pages.  I want you to hunt for bugs in these pages for about
one week before I replace the old pages by the new ones.  My plan is
to run a cron job[1] twice a day to regenerate all CDD pages.  (The
old cron jobs for Debian Med and Debian Science should be taken out
operation, for Debian Med I will do this by just inserting an "exit 0"
in the current script because the owner of the job David Paleino
announced to be off line for a while.)

Features:
   - (Hopefully) reimplemented all features of the old system
   - "Fully" translated modulo missing DDTP translations (and
     there are A LOT untranslated descriptions - this is YOUR
     job in case you have some spare time! ... Just visit the
     DDTP page[2] and see how you could enhance the situation!)
   - Better navigation from one task to the others by adding a
     menu in the left column
   - Fully translatable for all CDDs (no remaining references
     to Debian Med)
   - Easily adaptable for new CDDs by just adding a config file
   - Index page shows (translated, if there are DDTP translations)
     descriptions of the tasks instead of a plain list.
   - Pages are not PHP but static HTML, language preference settings
     are detected via "Options +MultiViews" in a .htaccess file
     (which is auto generated according the languages that are
     available); List of available languages at the bottom.
     Question: Do you think it makes sense to generate different
               sets of languages for different CDDs.  I'd regard
               this as possibly interesting but not high on top
               of the todo list.  Implementation is easy.
   - Probabably some more new features
   - Probably some new bugs

Please have a look at the pages of your pet-CDD:

   Debian Edu:
     http://cdd.alioth.debian.org/edu/tasks_new/

   Debian GIS:
     http://cdd.alioth.debian.org/gis/tasks_new/

   Debian Junior:
     http://cdd.alioth.debian.org/junior/tasks_new/

   Debian Med:
     http://debian-med.alioth.debian.org/tasks_new/

   Debian Science:
     http://cdd.alioth.debian.org/science/tasks_new/

Start working on DDTP decriptions of packages _NOW_!

Kind regards

         Andreas.

[1] http://svn.debian.org/wsvn/cdd/cdd/trunk/webtools/update-all-tasks?op=file&rev=0&sc=0
[2] http://ddtp.debian.net/

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[juergen.leibner]

Am Mittwoch, 2. Juli 2008 schrieb Andreas Tille:
> Hi,
>

Hi Andreas,

> I'd like to announce the new tasks pages generating system for the
> CDD tasks pages.  I want you to hunt for bugs in these pages for
> about one week before I replace the old pages by the new ones.

on http://debian-edu.alioth.debian.org/ the link Skolelinux points to
http://www.skolelinux.org/portal/, but that page doesn't exist on the
old drupal site.

http://debian-edu.alioth.debian.org/status.html isn't available too, it
gives a 404.

All pages you listet in your mail give a 404. The only functional one is
http://debian-med.alioth.debian.org/tasks_new/

Greetings, Jürgen Leibner


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[Andreas Tille]

On Sun, 6 Jul 2008, Jürgen Leibner wrote:

> on http://debian-edu.alioth.debian.org/ the link Skolelinux points to
> http://www.skolelinux.org/portal/, but that page doesn't exist on the
> old drupal site.
>
> http://debian-edu.alioth.debian.org/status.html isn't available too, it
> gives a 404.

Well, sorry I did not posted these links and I do not really feel responsible
for thes pages.

> All pages you listet in your mail give a 404. The only functional one is
> http://debian-med.alioth.debian.org/tasks_new/

This is my faul because I just removed the "_new" at the end of all the other
links (and now from the Debian Med link as well) because I wanted to do an
official announcement and wanted to do this without "_new".  I just placed
symlinks to the "old new" locations but here are the ones you should keep
in your bookmarks:

   Debian Edu:
     http://cdd.alioth.debian.org/edu/tasks

   Debian GIS:
     http://cdd.alioth.debian.org/gis/tasks

   Debian Junior:
     http://cdd.alioth.debian.org/junior/tasks

   Debian Med:
     http://debian-med.alioth.debian.org/tasks

   Debian Science:
     http://cdd.alioth.debian.org/science/tasks

If you are interested to maintain

      http://debian-edu.alioth.debian.org/

which looks quite orphaned and might need some care just do so, but I
do not feel responsible here.  What I could do is to move the output
of the tasks generating pages under debian-edu.alioth.debian.org -
if somebody asks me to do so.  BTW, there is a tasks directory which
just lists an outdated kopy of the tasks files and IMHO makes no sense
at all at this place.

Kind regards

         Andreas.

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[juergen.leibner]

Am Mittwoch, 2. Juli 2008 schrieb Andreas Tille:

> Hi,
>
> I'd like to announce the new tasks pages generating system for the
> CDD tasks pages.  I want you to hunt for bugs in these pages for
> about one week before I replace the old pages by the new ones.  My
> plan is to run a cron job[1] twice a day to regenerate all CDD pages.
>  (The old cron jobs for Debian Med and Debian Science should be taken
> out operation, for Debian Med I will do this by just inserting an
> "exit 0" in the current script because the owner of the job David
> Paleino announced to be off line for a while.)
>
> Features:
>    - (Hopefully) reimplemented all features of the old system
>    - "Fully" translated modulo missing DDTP translations (and
>      there are A LOT untranslated descriptions - this is YOUR
>      job in case you have some spare time! ... Just visit the
>      DDTP page[2] and see how you could enhance the situation!)
>    - Better navigation from one task to the others by adding a
>      menu in the left column
>    - Fully translatable for all CDDs (no remaining references
>      to Debian Med)
>    - Easily adaptable for new CDDs by just adding a config file
>    - Index page shows (translated, if there are DDTP translations)
>      descriptions of the tasks instead of a plain list.
>    - Pages are not PHP but static HTML, language preference settings
>      are detected via "Options +MultiViews" in a .htaccess file
>      (which is auto generated according the languages that are
>      available); List of available languages at the bottom.
>      Question: Do you think it makes sense to generate different
>                sets of languages for different CDDs.  I'd regard
>                this as possibly interesting but not high on top
>                of the todo list.  Implementation is easy.
>    - Probabably some more new features
>    - Probably some new bugs
>
> Please have a look at the pages of your pet-CDD:
>
>    Debian Edu:
>      http://cdd.alioth.debian.org/edu/tasks_new/
>
>    Debian GIS:
>      http://cdd.alioth.debian.org/gis/tasks_new/
>
>    Debian Junior:
>      http://cdd.alioth.debian.org/junior/tasks_new/
>
>    Debian Med:
>      http://debian-med.alioth.debian.org/tasks_new/
>
>    Debian Science:
>      http://cdd.alioth.debian.org/science/tasks_new/
>
> Start working on DDTP decriptions of packages _NOW_!
>
> Kind regards
>
>          Andreas.
>
> [1]
> http://svn.debian.org/wsvn/cdd/cdd/trunk/webtools/update-all-tasks?op
>=file&rev=0&sc=0 [2] http://ddtp.debian.net/
>
> --
> http://fam-tille.de

Hi Andreas,

could you please edit the debian-edu.conf file, to let the debian-edu  
task page show up with our logo?

I noticed that the url in the conf file isn't correct, but could not
edit it by myself as you can see below.

The entry should be for example:
LogoUrl:     http://skolelinux.org/gfx/logo_skole.gif
(maybe one knows a better url and tells us)

...@alioth:/srv/alioth.debian.org/chroot/home/groups/cdd/webtools/webconf$
-rw-r--r-- 1 tille cdd  569 2008-07-05 21:41 debian-edu.conf

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[Andreas Tille]

On Fri, 11 Jul 2008, juergen.leibner@... wrote:

> I noticed that the url in the conf file isn't correct, but could not
> edit it by myself as you can see below.

Do you want access to the SVN?

> The entry should be for example:
> LogoUrl:     http://skolelinux.org/gfx/logo_skole.gif
> (maybe one knows a better url and tells us)

Well, the entry is in fact wrong and should have been

      http://cdd.alioth.debian.org/edu/img/slx-tux.png

('img' was missing).  This is a different image and it might be reasonable
that you all agree on one image first.  BTW, there is some time for finding
a decision because the UTF-8 issue in the script which is triggered by the
non-ASCII strings in lang-nb-desktop prevent currently building of the
wab pages for Debian-Edu.  I hope to find a clue over the weekend - but
any help of Python string encoding is really appreciated ...

Kind regards

           Andreas.

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[juergen.leibner]

Am Freitag, 11. Juli 2008 schrieb Andreas Tille:
> On Fri, 11 Jul 2008, juergen.leibner@... wrote:
> > I noticed that the url in the conf file isn't correct, but could
> > not edit it by myself as you can see below.
>
> Do you want access to the SVN?

What SVN?
I have already access to alioth.debian.org.
But that config files can only be changed by a guy called tille ;-)

>
> > The entry should be for example:
> > LogoUrl:     http://skolelinux.org/gfx/logo_skole.gif
> > (maybe one knows a better url and tells us)
>
> Well, the entry is in fact wrong and should have been
>
>       http://cdd.alioth.debian.org/edu/img/slx-tux.png
>
> ('img' was missing).  This is a different image and it might be
> reasonable that you all agree on one image first.

Who decided to choose the skole tux image?
I would like to see a right logo there and not a tux. ;-)

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[Andreas Tille]

On Fri, 11 Jul 2008, juergen.leibner@... wrote:

> What SVN?

Off cdd project.

> I have already access to alioth.debian.org.
> But that config files can only be changed by a guy called tille ;-)

Or members of group cdd (at least if I not set permissions wrong).
All the config files are at

     svn://svn.debian.org/cdd/cdd/trunk/webtools/webconf

even if there is no automatic process to copy this to the location
where the executable code is situated

     /srv/alioth.debian.org/chroot/home/groups/cdd/webtools

this is one of the next steps to do.  So joining the cdd group
is usefull to access both.

> Who decided to choose the skole tux image?

Well, there was no such thing like a 'decision'.  I just putted
something there which I felt apropriate.

> I would like to see a right logo there and not a tux. ;-)

Yes, and I wonder whether a SkoleLinux logo is really "the" right
logo.  I feel not passionate about this but the pages show the part
of Debian internal packages and is perhaps lacking some stuff
SkoleLinux is adding.  So it is actually not a real SkoleLinux
page ithat's why I wonder whether not mentioning Debian-Edu in the logo
is apropriate.  That's why I would like to suggest to discuss
the issue (and as I said we have some time to do so until the
page gets update the next time).

Kind regards

          Andreas.

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[juergen.leibner]

Am Freitag, 11. Juli 2008 schrieb Andreas Tille:
> On Fri, 11 Jul 2008, juergen.leibner@... wrote:
> > What SVN?
>
> Off cdd project.
>
> > I have already access to alioth.debian.org.
> > But that config files can only be changed by a guy called tille ;-)
>
> Or members of group cdd (at least if I not set permissions wrong).

cdd group is readonly ;-)

> All the config files are at
>
>      svn://svn.debian.org/cdd/cdd/trunk/webtools/webconf
>
> even if there is no automatic process to copy this to the location
> where the executable code is situated
>
>      /srv/alioth.debian.org/chroot/home/groups/cdd/webtools
>
> this is one of the next steps to do.  So joining the cdd group
> is usefull to access both.
>
> > Who decided to choose the skole tux image?
>
> Well, there was no such thing like a 'decision'.  I just putted
> something there which I felt apropriate.
>
> > I would like to see a right logo there and not a tux. ;-)
>
> Yes, and I wonder whether a SkoleLinux logo is really "the" right
> logo.  I feel not passionate about this but the pages show the part
> of Debian internal packages and is perhaps lacking some stuff
> SkoleLinux is adding.  So it is actually not a real SkoleLinux
> page ithat's why I wonder whether not mentioning Debian-Edu in the
> logo is apropriate.  That's why I would like to suggest to discuss
> the issue (and as I said we have some time to do so until the page
> gets update the next time).

As you can read on http://wiki.debian.org/DebianEdu

DebianEdu is a Debian project to make the best distribution for
educational purposes.

Skolelinux is the name of a CustomDebianDistribution which is produced
by the DebianEdu project.

So if my understanding of the two sentences above is correct, the
skolelinux logo should be the right one here.

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[Andreas Tille]

On Fri, 11 Jul 2008, juergen.leibner@... wrote:

>> Or members of group cdd (at least if I not set permissions wrong).
>
> cdd group is readonly ;-)

Ahh, my fault - this was not intended.  But if you change this please
drop me at least a note to let me propagate your change to SVN - there
is no guarantee that I might mistakenly override your changes by current
content of SVN ...

> As you can read on http://wiki.debian.org/DebianEdu
>
> DebianEdu is a Debian project to make the best distribution for
> educational purposes.
>
> Skolelinux is the name of a CustomDebianDistribution which is produced
> by the DebianEdu project.
>
> So if my understanding of the two sentences above is correct, the
> skolelinux logo should be the right one here.

It seems like nitpicking - but we oftenly stumbled upon this case
so I at least want to make you aware that you are linking to another
page that has a contradictory definition:

    http://wiki.debian.org/CustomDebian

says:

   Custom Debian Distribution (CDD): a _SUBSET_ of Debian that is configured
   to support a particular target group out-of-the-box.

SkoleLinux is not (yet) a subset of Debian and thus there are conflicting
opinions on this.  I personally have a quite pragmatic point of view and
just would like to support what finally helps users.  The point is that
the term Custom Debian Distribution is missunderstood to estimated 80%
because it is siumply misnamed and does not express what it really is -
just 100% included in Debian.  To avoid further watering down this term
I try to feature this careful kind of pickyness and would like to see a
*real* decision instead of just having you or me just putting our
favourite image on top of the page.

Kind regards

         Andreas.

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[Jonas Smedegaard]

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On Fri, Jul 11, 2008 at 01:20:08PM +0200, Andreas Tille wrote:
> SkoleLinux is not (yet) a subset of Debian and thus there are
> conflicting opinions on this.  I personally have a quite pragmatic
> point of view and just would like to support what finally helps users.

What users?

Here are some possible answers:

  1) Users of computers (like Linux and Windows)
  2) Users of Linux distros (like Debian, Skolelinux and Ubuntu)
  3) Users of the Debian distro (maybe mixed with outside stuff)
  4) Users of only the Debian distro (maybe through CDDs)


I guess you can be _either_ pragmatic and choose 3) _or_ pedantic and
choose 4) but not both.  Doing both doesn't make sense to me, but please
educate me.


  - Jonas

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* Tlf.: [phone]  Website: http://dr.jones.dk/

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[juergen.leibner]

Am Freitag, 11. Juli 2008 schrieb Andreas Tille:
> On Fri, 11 Jul 2008, juergen.leibner@... wrote:
> >> Or members of group cdd (at least if I not set permissions wrong).
> >
> > cdd group is readonly ;-)
>
> Ahh, my fault - this was not intended.  But if you change this please
> drop me at least a note to let me propagate your change to SVN -
> there is no guarantee that I might mistakenly override your changes
> by current content of SVN ...

In any way, I can not change anything there.

>
> > As you can read on http://wiki.debian.org/DebianEdu
> >
> > DebianEdu is a Debian project to make the best distribution for
> > educational purposes.
> >
> > Skolelinux is the name of a CustomDebianDistribution which is
> > produced by the DebianEdu project.
> >
> > So if my understanding of the two sentences above is correct, the
> > skolelinux logo should be the right one here.
>
> It seems like nitpicking - but we oftenly stumbled upon this case
> so I at least want to make you aware that you are linking to another
> page that has a contradictory definition:
>
>     http://wiki.debian.org/CustomDebian
>
> says:
>
>    Custom Debian Distribution (CDD): a _SUBSET_ of Debian that is
> configured to support a particular target group out-of-the-box.
>
> SkoleLinux is not (yet) a subset of Debian and thus there are
> conflicting opinions on this.  I personally have a quite pragmatic
> point of view and just would like to support what finally helps
> users.  The point is that the term Custom Debian Distribution is
> missunderstood to estimated 80% because it is siumply misnamed and
> does not express what it really is - just 100% included in Debian.
> To avoid further watering down this term I try to feature this
> careful kind of pickyness and would like to see a *real* decision
> instead of just having you or me just putting our favourite image on
> top of the page.

I do not want to discuss this question of live here.
I thought there was a mistake / failure in your confs and wanted
silently correct that. But I failed doing it because of having no
rights to do so.

So, if there should be a picture / logo or whatever graphical stuff on
that page configured in that config file, it has to be a valid url so
that it can show up.

Thats my conclusion of this thread, hopefully ending up here now, as you
are right saying that it's like nitpicking. ;-)

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[Andreas Tille]

On Fri, 11 Jul 2008, juergen.leibner@... wrote:

> In any way, I can not change anything there.

Sure - because you were no member of cdd group before.  Now you are ...

> I do not want to discuss this question of live here.

Well, it is not really a question of life ... ;-)

> I thought there was a mistake / failure in your confs and wanted

Yes, it was.

> silently correct that. But I failed doing it because of having no
> rights to do so.

Which was correct as well - only members of cdd group should be allowed.
I added you to this group in case you might detect other problems ...

> So, if there should be a picture / logo or whatever graphical stuff on
> that page configured in that config file, it has to be a valid url so
> that it can show up.

Yep.  But even if the URL was technically broken before - the slx-tux.png
image was intended as a placeholder for a better image.  So it is not that
bad that you raised your opinion.

Kind regards

          Andreas.

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[Andreas Tille]

On Fri, 11 Jul 2008, Jonas Smedegaard wrote:

> What users?
>
> Here are some possible answers:
>
>  1) Users of computers (like Linux and Windows)
>  2) Users of Linux distros (like Debian, Skolelinux and Ubuntu)
>  3) Users of the Debian distro (maybe mixed with outside stuff)
>  4) Users of only the Debian distro (maybe through CDDs)

   5) Visitors of the web site

I was refering to 5) in the sense that a visitor of a page that
was a result of my code is a "user".

Kind regards

          Andreas.

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[Jonas Smedegaard]

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On Fri, Jul 11, 2008 at 02:27:56PM +0200, Andreas Tille wrote:

> On Fri, 11 Jul 2008, Jonas Smedegaard wrote:
>
>> What users?
>>
>> Here are some possible answers:
>>
>>  1) Users of computers (like Linux and Windows)
>>  2) Users of Linux distros (like Debian, Skolelinux and Ubuntu)
>>  3) Users of the Debian distro (maybe mixed with outside stuff)
>>  4) Users of only the Debian distro (maybe through CDDs)
>
>   5) Visitors of the web site

or to fit above style:

     5) Users of web browsers (like computer users and robots)


> I was refering to 5) in the sense that a visitor of a page that
> was a result of my code is a "user".

Huh?

You wrote:

> SkoleLinux is not (yet) a subset of Debian and thus there are
> conflicting opinions on this.  I personally have a quite pragmatic
> point of view and just would like to support what finally helps users.

So you think there is a conflict between Debian and Skolelinux, but your
focus is none of those but anyone visiting the web site?


Thanks for clarifying.  Unfortunately it did not enlighten me much.  
Might just be me :-/


  - Jonas

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[Andreas Tille]

[Just switched subject because it was drifted away from the original topic.
  The question is, what would be a proper Logo for Debian Edu.]

On Fri, 11 Jul 2008, Jonas Smedegaard wrote:

>>   5) Visitors of the web site
>
> or to fit above style:
>
>     5) Users of web browsers (like computer users and robots)

... which actually visit this web page.

>> SkoleLinux is not (yet) a subset of Debian and thus there are
>> conflicting opinions on this.  I personally have a quite pragmatic
>> point of view and just would like to support what finally helps users.
>
> So you think there is a conflict between Debian and Skolelinux, but your
> focus is none of those but anyone visiting the web site?

No, I do absolutely not think that there is a conflict between
Debian and Skolelinux.  Rather the contrary because the Skolelinux
have understood that it makes no sense to fork Debian and try to
integrate but did not really finished this process.  I just wrote
that the definitions stated on the two wiki pages are conflicting
that means at least one of this pages has to be fixed - IMHO the
DebianEdu page.

Kind regards

          Andreas.
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[Jonas Smedegaard]

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On Fri, Jul 11, 2008 at 04:19:09PM +0200, Andreas Tille wrote:

>>> SkoleLinux is not (yet) a subset of Debian and thus there are
>>> conflicting opinions on this.  I personally have a quite pragmatic
>>> point of view and just would like to support what finally helps
>>> users.
>>
>> So you think there is a conflict between Debian and Skolelinux, but
>> your focus is none of those but anyone visiting the web site?
>
> No, I do absolutely not think that there is a conflict between
> Debian and Skolelinux.

Whoops. Right.

Sorry for twisting way beyond sanity.  That was not intentional, I was
simply too quick on my keyboard.

I agree that the conflict you refer to is on multiple definitions on
some web pages.


> I just wrote that the definitions stated on the two wiki pages are
> conflicting that means at least one of this pages has to be fixed -
> IMHO the DebianEdu page.

Do you agree that the conflict is on the definition of CDD (your subject
could lead to believe that it was the definition of Skolelinux vs.
DebianEdu)?



Do I understand you correctly that you do not care much for that
conflict, as long as the web page is helpful to its visitors?

Or how else should top quote of this email be interpreted?


  - Jonas

- --
* Jonas Smedegaard - idealist og Internet-arkitekt
* Tlf.: [phone]  Website: http://dr.jones.dk/

  - Enden er nær: http://www.shibumi.org/eoti.htm
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