[Announce] New tasks web Bpages for all CDDs

[Andreas Tille]

Hi,

I'd like to announce the new tasks pages generating system for the
CDD tasks pages.  I want you to hunt for bugs in these pages for about
one week before I replace the old pages by the new ones.  My plan is
to run a cron job[1] twice a day to regenerate all CDD pages.  (The
old cron jobs for Debian Med and Debian Science should be taken out
operation, for Debian Med I will do this by just inserting an "exit 0"
in the current script because the owner of the job David Paleino
announced to be off line for a while.)

Features:
   - (Hopefully) reimplemented all features of the old system
   - "Fully" translated modulo missing DDTP translations (and
     there are A LOT untranslated descriptions - this is YOUR
     job in case you have some spare time! ... Just visit the
     DDTP page[2] and see how you could enhance the situation!)
   - Better navigation from one task to the others by adding a
     menu in the left column
   - Fully translatable for all CDDs (no remaining references
     to Debian Med)
   - Easily adaptable for new CDDs by just adding a config file
   - Index page shows (translated, if there are DDTP translations)
     descriptions of the tasks instead of a plain list.
   - Pages are not PHP but static HTML, language preference settings
     are detected via "Options +MultiViews" in a .htaccess file
     (which is auto generated according the languages that are
     available); List of available languages at the bottom.
     Question: Do you think it makes sense to generate different
               sets of languages for different CDDs.  I'd regard
               this as possibly interesting but not high on top
               of the todo list.  Implementation is easy.
   - Probabably some more new features
   - Probably some new bugs

Please have a look at the pages of your pet-CDD:

   Debian Edu:
     http://cdd.alioth.debian.org/edu/tasks_new/

   Debian GIS:
     http://cdd.alioth.debian.org/gis/tasks_new/

   Debian Junior:
     http://cdd.alioth.debian.org/junior/tasks_new/

   Debian Med:
     http://debian-med.alioth.debian.org/tasks_new/

   Debian Science:
     http://cdd.alioth.debian.org/science/tasks_new/

Start working on DDTP decriptions of packages _NOW_!

Kind regards

         Andreas.

[1] http://svn.debian.org/wsvn/cdd/cdd/trunk/webtools/update-all-tasks?op=file&rev=0&sc=0
[2] http://ddtp.debian.net/

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[Chris Walker-2]

Andreas Tille <tillea@...> writes:

>
> I'd like to announce the new tasks pages generating system for the
> CDD tasks pages.  I want you to hunt for bugs in these pages for about
> one week before I replace the old pages by the new ones.  

The link to wnpp bugs doesn't work on
http://cdd.alioth.debian.org/science/tasks_new/physics.html.

For example, the link for salome is http://www.debian.org/Bugs/#457075
when it should be

http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=457075


Chris


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[Manuel Prinz-2]

Am Mittwoch, den 02.07.2008, 12:01 +0200 schrieb Andreas Tille:
> Please have a look at the pages of your pet-CDD:
>
>    Debian Science:
>      http://cdd.alioth.debian.org/science/tasks_new/
>

http://cdd.alioth.debian.org/science/tasks_new/statistics.html lists a
"science-mathematics" meta-package. Is this intentional or a bug?

I really like the new design! Good work! :)

Best regards
Manuel

[Adam C Powell IV]

On Wed, 2008-07-02 at 11:45 +0100, Chris Walker wrote:

> Andreas Tille <tillea@...> writes:
>
> >
> > I'd like to announce the new tasks pages generating system for the
> > CDD tasks pages.  I want you to hunt for bugs in these pages for about
> > one week before I replace the old pages by the new ones.  
>
> The link to wnpp bugs doesn't work on
> http://cdd.alioth.debian.org/science/tasks_new/physics.html.
>
> For example, the link for salome is http://www.debian.org/Bugs/#457075
> when it should be
>
> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=457075

Or http://bugs.debian.org/457075 if you want an abbreviated version.

The one thing that's missing is science-engineering, for things like
qcad, OpenCASCADE, FreeCAD, BRL-CAD, Salome which really aren't
"physics", and Gerris, libmesh, gmsh and others which are both (physics
and engineering).  It's a science sub-category in the menu and
documentation systems, and would be good to have here as well.

I think I'll wishlist it to debian-science...

-Adam
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[Andreas Tille]

On Wed, 2 Jul 2008, Chris Walker wrote:

> For example, the link for salome is http://www.debian.org/Bugs/#457075
> when it should be
>
> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=457075

Ahh, good catch: It's just the '#' which has to be removed from the
template.  Just testing it and will reprocess the pages.

Thanks for the input

         Andreas.

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[Andreas Tille]

On Wed, 2 Jul 2008, Manuel Prinz wrote:

> http://cdd.alioth.debian.org/science/tasks_new/statistics.html lists a
> "science-mathematics" meta-package. Is this intentional or a bug?

Well, not really a bug, but also not the final intention.  The problem
becomes even more visible in:

    http://cdd.alioth.debian.org/science/tasks_new/biology.html

It is a workaround of the problem that we do not want to duplicate
Dpendency information.  So it would not make sense to maintain
science-biology (same with science-geography) if there is a strong
team that just maintains the dependencies.  Copying this would
sooner or later lead to some divergence.  So for the moment we
just add a suggestion against these packages.

Side note:  Quite high on top of my todo list is to split
Depends/Recommends from Suggests in the list of official packages
and list the first on top so the Suggests will be listed later which
makes things clearer.

Long term solution of the above problem:

    Meta-Depends: <VCS-URL to other tasks file>

That means for science-biology the tasks files med-bio and med-bio-dev
will be parsed and the resulting dependencies listed on the tasks page.
The same way science-mathematics can be parsed and the dependencies
listed at the statistics tasks page.  I do not know whether this was
the intended behaviour (because I did not edited the tasks file).  It
might be that the editor of science-statistics had exactly the Suggests
in mind and not the Meta-Depends feature which has to be implemented.

Side note 2: Getting the meta-depends feature for the web pages is
quite cheap compared to getting it into the meta package building
framework.  The later has to be rewritten as well (to handle arch
dependant meta packages) and once this rewrite is done the feature
can be implemented.  I see no chance to implement the feature in the
old system.

> I really like the new design! Good work! :)

Thanks.  At least half of the thanks goes to Deavid Paleino who
actually did the first step and did the layout work which I just tried
to copy.

Kind regards

         Andreas.

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[Jan Beyer-2]

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Andreas Tille wrote, On 02.07.2008 12:01:

>   Debian Science:
>     http://cdd.alioth.debian.org/science/tasks_new/
http://cdd.alioth.debian.org/science/tasks_new/physics.html lists
gwyddion, which is very nice, but as the maintainer I'd prefer to have
it in the viewing-task (too?), as it is mainly a visualization tool, and
it's not specialized for physics applications.

Nice pages! Congrats!

Have a nice day and many thanks!

Best Regards,
Jan
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[Andreas Tille]

On Wed, 2 Jul 2008, Adam C Powell IV wrote:

>> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=457075
>
> Or http://bugs.debian.org/457075 if you want an abbreviated version.

Sure.  I normally know how to specify bug URLs ... ;-)

> The one thing that's missing is science-engineering,

It's not missing any more.

> for things like
> qcad,

Done.

> OpenCASCADE,

Done as opencascade-tools.

> FreeCAD,

Did not found any package with this name?  Could you provide any
more info about this project (preferably just commit it in

   http://svn.debian.org/wsvn/cdd/projects/science/trunk/debian-science/tasks/engineering?op=file&rev=0&sc=0

> BRL-CAD, Salome which really aren't "physics",

OK, so you would like to propose to move these two prospective package
entries from physics to engineering?

> and Gerris,

Done.

> libmesh,

Done as libmesh0.6.2 (hmmm, I have to find a clever mechanism which
resolves the right version number of a package ...)

> gmsh

> and others which are both (physics and engineering).

I don't know "others" but if you have specific packages in mind just
specify these in the tasks file.

> It's a science sub-category in the menu and
> documentation systems, and would be good to have here as well.

Just have a look at

     http://cdd.alioth.debian.org/science/tasks_new/engineering.html

Took me a minute to create the tasks file and rerun the job ...

> I think I'll wishlist it to debian-science...

To late. ;-))

Kind regards

        Andreas.

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[Andreas Tille]

On Wed, 2 Jul 2008, Jan Beyer wrote:

> http://cdd.alioth.debian.org/science/tasks_new/physics.html lists
> gwyddion, which is very nice, but as the maintainer I'd prefer to have
> it in the viewing-task (too?), as it is mainly a visualization tool, and
> it's not specialized for physics applications.

Done.  If anybody wants to have write permissions to CDD SVN to edit
debian-science tasks himself - just ask me.  It's not that hard to do
and would spare my time to continue fixing problems in the scripts.

> Nice pages! Congrats!

Seems people like these pages.  So my advise would be: Watch out other
scientific software and add them as prospective packages to prepare/announce
later inclusion into Debian.  This shows what we are doing.  Watch WNPP
bugs for scientific software and add the info as well to make sure the
WNPP will not be unattended and becomes "solved" after a year by the WNPP
watch daemon that cleans old ITPs.

And, not to forget, translate package descriptions.  Hey, we are the
experts and descriptions of specific packages are at best translated
by experts. Join DDTP effort!

Kind regards

        Andreas.

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[Andreas Tille]

On Wed, 2 Jul 2008, Adam C Powell IV wrote:

> I think I'll wishlist it to debian-science...

Damn, you were even faster than me and I've thought I would have been
quick. ;-))

Well, to get this done we should release current SVN status as
debian-science 0.2 soon because we will face some delay because
of the new package which requires editing the override file.
Anybody sees a reason to stop me from uploading tomorrow?

Kind regards

         Andreas.

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[Adam C Powell IV]

On Wed, 2008-07-02 at 14:19 +0200, Andreas Tille wrote:

> On Wed, 2 Jul 2008, Adam C Powell IV wrote:
>
> >> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=457075
> >
> > Or http://bugs.debian.org/457075 if you want an abbreviated version.
>
> Sure.  I normally know how to specify bug URLs ... ;-)
>
> > The one thing that's missing is science-engineering,
>
> It's not missing any more.

Thank you!

> > for things like
> > qcad,
>
> Done.
>
> > OpenCASCADE,
>
> Done as opencascade-tools.
>
> > FreeCAD,
>
> Did not found any package with this name?  Could you provide any
> more info about this project (preferably just commit it in
>
>    http://svn.debian.org/wsvn/cdd/projects/science/trunk/debian-science/tasks/engineering?op=file&rev=0&sc=0
>
> > BRL-CAD, Salome which really aren't "physics",
>
> OK, so you would like to propose to move these two prospective package
> entries from physics to engineering?

I think this would make sense.

> > and Gerris,
>
> Done.
>
> > libmesh,
>
> Done as libmesh0.6.2 (hmmm, I have to find a clever mechanism which
> resolves the right version number of a package ...)

The source package is libmesh...  Hmm, perhaps it should Provide a
virtual package you can depend on, like "libmesh0.6.2-dev |
libmesh-dev".  (You probably want the -dev package, which includes
examples; the shlib package is only useful as a dependency.)

> > gmsh
>
> > and others which are both (physics and engineering).
>
> I don't know "others" but if you have specific packages in mind just
> specify these in the tasks file.

Bug 488962 (to which you've replied) has details.

> > It's a science sub-category in the menu and
> > documentation systems, and would be good to have here as well.
>
> Just have a look at
>
>      http://cdd.alioth.debian.org/science/tasks_new/engineering.html
>
> Took me a minute to create the tasks file and rerun the job ...
>
> > I think I'll wishlist it to debian-science...
>
> To late. ;-))

Almost -- I got your bug in before your post reached the list. :-)

-Adam
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[Chris Walker-2]

Andreas Tille <tillea@...> writes:

> On Wed, 2 Jul 2008, Adam C Powell IV wrote:
>
>
> > and others which are both (physics and engineering).

The MATLAB/IDL like packages octave and scilab are which are both currently in Mathematics, should probably be joined by pdl (in Astronomy and viewing), matplotlib and freemat (#391887).

As a physicist I can see arguments for them being in Mathematics,
Engineering and Physics. There is an argument for them being close to
symbolic maths packages such as maxima.

Chris


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[Andreas Tille]

On Wed, 2 Jul 2008, Adam C Powell IV wrote:

>> It's not missing any more.
>
> Thank you!

You are welcome. ;-))

>> OK, so you would like to propose to move these two prospective package
>> entries from physics to engineering?
>
> I think this would make sense.

Done.

>> Done as libmesh0.6.2 (hmmm, I have to find a clever mechanism which
>> resolves the right version number of a package ...)
>
> The source package is libmesh...

I know - but the tasks file need dependencies from binary packages
(currently).  An alternative might be to invent a field Source-Depends
which has an effect only for the web page generation while the
meta packages need the usual Depends/Recommends/Suggests.

> Hmm, perhaps it should Provide a
> virtual package you can depend on, like "libmesh0.6.2-dev |
> libmesh-dev".  (You probably want the -dev package, which includes
> examples; the shlib package is only useful as a dependency.)

OK, we need to polish here several dependencies regarding this aspect.
I have not yet fully made up my mind what might be the best solution.

> Bug 488962 (to which you've replied) has details.

Thanks.

> Almost -- I got your bug in before your post reached the list. :-)

Well, as I said - you won. ;-)
And strictly speaking it is right that you won because the bug is not
yet fixed but pending (fixed in SVN).

Kind regards and thanks for your input

      Andreas.

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[Chris Walker-2]

Chris Walker <chrisw@...> writes:

> Andreas Tille <tillea@...> writes:
>
> > On Wed, 2 Jul 2008, Adam C Powell IV wrote:
> >
> >
> > > and others which are both (physics and engineering).
>
> The MATLAB/IDL like packages octave and scilab are which are both currently in Mathematics, should probably be joined by pdl (in Astronomy and viewing), matplotlib and freemat (#391887).
>
> As a physicist I can see arguments for them being in Mathematics,
> Engineering and Physics. There is an argument for them being close to
> symbolic maths packages such as maxima.
>

And another suggestion for moving packages.

Abinit is currently in physics, but mpqc (which also does Density
functional theory calculations) and other related packages such as
mopac are in chemistry. I would think they should both be in
chemistry.

Chris


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[Andreas Tille]

On Wed, 2 Jul 2008, Chris Walker wrote:

>> The MATLAB/IDL like packages octave and scilab are which are both currently in Mathematics, should probably be joined by pdl (in Astronomy and viewing), matplotlib and freemat (#391887).
>>
>> As a physicist I can see arguments for them being in Mathematics,
>> Engineering and Physics. There is an argument for them being close to
>> symbolic maths packages such as maxima.
>>
>
> And another suggestion for moving packages.
>
> Abinit is currently in physics, but mpqc (which also does Density
> functional theory calculations) and other related packages such as
> mopac are in chemistry. I would think they should both be in
> chemistry.

So far for the good suggestions: Does anybody volunteer to do the
actual change.  I'd not be too happy to work as "Mr. tasks editor".
It is really easy and I would love to share this work between more
people to come back to enhancing the interpreting code.  Feel free
to ask me for commit permissions ...

Kind regards

          Andreas.

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[Charles Plessy-12]

Le Wed, Jul 02, 2008 at 09:15:07PM +0200, Andreas Tille a écrit :
> Feel free to ask me for commit permissions ...

Hi all,

there is also the possibility to ask to the Alioth admins to give the
permission to all DDs, like for the collab-maint group.

Have a nice day,

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[Andreas Tille]

On Thu, 3 Jul 2008, Charles Plessy wrote:

> there is also the possibility to ask to the Alioth admins to give the
> permission to all DDs, like for the collab-maint group.

Thanks for the hint.  I'll keep in in mind if I have the impression
that adding developers to the project takes more time than asking
Alioth admin for this feature.  Currently it took not so much time
to add volunteers ...

Kind regards

        Andreas.

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[Felipe Figueiredo-2]

On Wednesday 02 July 2008 10:14:35 Chris Walker wrote:

> As a physicist I can see arguments for them being in Mathematics,
> Engineering and Physics. There is an argument for them being close to
> symbolic maths packages such as maxima.

Am I missing something, or packages can't be in more than one category/task in
this system? I think if packages could be organized with something
like "tags" (oh no, one more name), everyone would be more satisfied, and the
packages would be easilly found by users.